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kidhawk
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Post subject: Re: Innocent until proven guilty.  Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:57 pm |
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Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:00 pm
Posts: 10256
Location: Anchorage, AK
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SonicHawk wrote: kidhawk wrote: SonicHawk wrote: I think we should treat all humans with the same respect no matter their origination or actions. So we should treat OBL the exact same way we should treat Mhatma Ghandi? Is that truly your stance? What the hell are you talking about? Are you suggesting that Ghandi is a terrorist that ordered the deaths of 1,000s of people? You treat people as people, the outcome would obviously be very different with Ghandi and OBL. you said no matter their origination OR ACTIONS. Are you changing your tune?
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kidhawk
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Post subject: Re: Innocent until proven guilty. Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:58 pm |
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Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:00 pm
Posts: 10256
Location: Anchorage, AK
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12evanf wrote: When you live in a land of true justice, every has to be allowed the same freedoms and rights. When we start making exceptions there is no longer freedom or justice. Everyone who lives here, I would fully agree, but not everyone else. That is ludicrous. Those who don't have to live under our laws, cannot be tried under those laws
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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Innocent until proven guilty. Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:04 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 pm
Posts: 2358
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kidhawk wrote: you said no matter their origination OR ACTIONS. Are you changing your tune? No matter their origination or actions you treat them like a human, not let them be free.
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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012
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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Innocent until proven guilty. Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:05 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 pm
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kidhawk wrote: 12evanf wrote: When you live in a land of true justice, every has to be allowed the same freedoms and rights. When we start making exceptions there is no longer freedom or justice. Everyone who lives here, I would fully agree, but not everyone else. That is ludicrous. Those who don't have to live under our laws, cannot be tried under those laws I would only hope if you ever left this country and were held in custody that you would receive the same rights as a citizen.
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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012
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kidhawk
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Post subject: Re: Innocent until proven guilty. Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:16 pm |
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Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:00 pm
Posts: 10256
Location: Anchorage, AK
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SonicHawk wrote: kidhawk wrote: 12evanf wrote: When you live in a land of true justice, every has to be allowed the same freedoms and rights. When we start making exceptions there is no longer freedom or justice. Everyone who lives here, I would fully agree, but not everyone else. That is ludicrous. Those who don't have to live under our laws, cannot be tried under those laws I would only hope if you ever left this country and were held in custody that you would receive the same rights as a citizen. I would expect nothing more than the rights granted to anyone in the particular country I may be in at the time (assuming I committed or was accused of committing a crime in that country). If I was masterminding terror against the US, and living outside the borders of the US while doing so, then I would expect no less than to be treated like an enemy combatant.
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fenderbender123
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Post subject: Re: Innocent until proven guilty. Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:18 pm |
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Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:47 pm
Posts: 342
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Presumption of innocence and due process should be extended to as many people as possible. If it's a good thing for us, why is it good only if it is for us?
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12evanf
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Post subject: Re: Innocent until proven guilty. Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:24 am |
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Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:40 am
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kidhawk wrote: I would expect nothing more than the rights granted to anyone in the particular country I may be in at the time (assuming I committed or was accused of committing a crime in that country). If I was masterminding terror against the US, and living outside the borders of the US while doing so, then I would expect no less than to be treated like an enemy combatant. This is the new school patriot thinking. America should be great for treating our enemies better than they treat us. Right now we police the world and break all the rules we're supposedly enforcing. We come off as entitled bullies. In the war on terror, it only creates more vendettas and more terrorists.
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kidhawk
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Post subject: Re: Innocent until proven guilty. Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:22 am |
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Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:00 pm
Posts: 10256
Location: Anchorage, AK
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12evanf wrote: kidhawk wrote: I would expect nothing more than the rights granted to anyone in the particular country I may be in at the time (assuming I committed or was accused of committing a crime in that country). If I was masterminding terror against the US, and living outside the borders of the US while doing so, then I would expect no less than to be treated like an enemy combatant. This is the new school patriot thinking. America should be great for treating our enemies better than they treat us. Right now we police the world and break all the rules we're supposedly enforcing. We come off as entitled bullies. In the war on terror, it only creates more vendettas and more terrorists. I have never said I agree with our "police the world" mentality. As a matter of actual fact, I have stated that I wish we'd do a whole lot less of that many times in this forum. That does nothing to change the fact that we still must protect ourselves from terrorism, both domestic and international. I still say that if you are a domestic terrorist living in the USA, then you get the full rights granted to you by our laws. If you are an international terrorist (living outside the USA borders) then you deserve none of these protections, and if you attack us, we should be able to defend ourselves with whatever means necessary. That is my opinion on the matter. You do not have to agree, but just because I believe we shouldn't grant international terrorists the same rights as those living inside our borders, has no correlation to the fact that we are policing the world.
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