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 Post subject: Re: Game of the Thrones, the books..
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:39 am 
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Zebulon Dak wrote:
Well looks like my to-read list just got a little longer.

Have you read Joe Abercrombie?


No, but after reading a few synopses of his books, I plan to.

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 Post subject: Re: Game of the Thrones, the books..
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:51 am 
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I think GRRM is a fantastic writer and storyteller. The voice of each POV character seems distinctive to me and some of the descriptive passages have literally given me chills. During my first read, I would pull in my driveway each day after work, pick up whichever book I was on and read until it was dark. I couldn't even make it in to the hose.

As for the grammatical issues, I've only noticed a few "should of" instances and they've been in dialogue of characters that I would expect to say "should of" instead of "should have" (less educated characters). I'm pretty sure the word choice was deliberate. At least that's what I've always assumed. I've also seen it used correctly. There is a good example in the second Dunk & Egg novella where an obviously stupid knight uses "should of" in conversation with a well spoken knight uses "should have". This occurs within lines of each other on the page and I think it serves to paint a picture of the characters. You wouldn't expect an uneducated character to speak properly. Just my take on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Game of the Thrones, the books..
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:51 pm 
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I'm in the hospital and can't write properly..
But thought I'd follow up on this. Being in the hospital but not super heavy medicated I'm reading a lot, including this series.
First, to address the comment above-- the should of problem isn't meant to be dialog showing an accent. I can demonstrate that clearly from where it occurs and the fact tat it's not an accent it's how should have sounds ..

Anyway, writing this because of two more blatant errors I came across just today. I took pics of them even since some people don't believe how badly the book is edited.
In one case a character hears sounds on the deck of a boat. He clearly meant FOOTFALL, but the editor has us imaging the character hearing a football on deck. Seriously. If anything will take you out of a book it's something like that.. Medieval knight, listening in the dark... And out of 21sr century America a football suddenly bounces on the deck of his ancient galley.

Then not too much further into the book an even more egregious error. A character loses his hand... It becomes the main character point for the character.. There is are rarely 4 sentences in a row that don't mention the now missing hand... The stump, the phantom pain, etc etc.. Then suddenly this one handed character CUPS HIS HANDS AND SHOUTS. How can an author who is obsessed with the characters lack of a hand... Then write that?
Frustrating.
Well, time to get a new IV... Sorry for the petty rant .

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 Post subject: Re: Game of the Thrones, the books..
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:27 am 
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Vetamur wrote:
Then suddenly this one handed character CUPS HIS HANDS AND SHOUTS. How can an author who is obsessed with the characters lack of a hand... Then write that?


Now this I do remember. I don't recall the football thing though. Maybe mine is a later edition?

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 Post subject: Re: Game of the Thrones, the books..
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:04 am 
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Those are definitely things that should get caught in the editing process - and even in the self-editing process before the book goes to an editor. The issue about the football is a copyedit and proofreading issue. Copyedits are supposed to correct things like spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc., while proofreading is supposed to correct any differences between the written material and the copy that goes to print. Errors like this are fairly common in first editions of novels, even from major publishing houses. Subsequent additions should have all or most of these errors corrected.

The "cups his hands and shouts" issue is a bit trickier, and may have to do with changes from the first draft to later drafts, where major story elements have changed. Say the first draft was a version where the guy didn't lose a hand. Writing "cups his hands and shouts" then makes perfect sense with the story. Now the author, on subsequent drafts changes things up, the hand gets lost, and he has to go back and ensure all of the rest of the book from that point on lines up with the fact he only has one hand. Something like that is easy to miss. And while that should get caught in edits later on, it's easily enough missed there too. This kind of thing happens all the time, in essentially every book out there. The fact such errors don't show up more often is a tribute to the professionals doing the editing.

It's all attention to detail. And it's easy enough to miss a word or two when one is dealing with 80,000 to 100,000 words, or in the case of epic fantasy and science fiction, a whole lot more even.

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 Post subject: Re: Game of the Thrones, the books..
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:41 am 
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No.... This isn't a "originally he didn't lose the hand" issue. It's essentially that characters story arc for book 3.
I don't read tons of fiction so maybe I just dont notice these errors in other books but I've never come across anything quite like this. And again it's not that I want to dislike the books. I like the story (though from book 3 it seems to be getting rather less original...).

And the authors lack of subtlety.. Each character has their.. Main feature .. And the author hounds on it and hounds on it. We can't have a paragraph about Brienne without mentioning again she is ugly and mannish. Sam thinks himself a coward so that occupies every thought of every day. Catelyn is sad and misses people and so every thing that she ever does or encounters reminds her to be sad and that she misses them and she is lonely.
A good author doesn't need to tell directly what someone feels.. You know how the character feels by what they do or say. He or she certainly doesn't make each character have one chief characteristic and just pound that fact into the reader every other sentence.

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 Post subject: Re: Game of the Thrones, the books..
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:49 am 
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It may well be an issue of him having the hand in the original draft - we'll never know unless the author comes out and says so. Most of the time first drafts look night-and-day different from the final product, including major plot points, and even story arc for an entire series. Even if it's the entire story arc for the rest of the series, it could have been a change from the original. I've written stories where minor characters I've mentioned in passing suddenly took over the story and I've had to go back and rewrite the entire thing. I've had major twists in plot happen because a character decides to do something unexpected. Yes, they're funny that way, and especially so when they're well-rounded characters.

The rest of that is style failures in the author. It's easy to do, to project yourself onto characters and then change one major identity mark to separate them from the rest. To me, that last paragraph there, Ross, is my main concern with picking up a new series. I cannot get into it if the characters are cardboard, and do nothing but follow standard, overused tropes. And this is especially so if the author can't seem to realize that readers will pick up on something the first couple of times he says it.

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 Post subject: Re: Game of the Thrones, the books..
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:06 am 
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Vetamur wrote:
And the authors lack of subtlety.. Each character has their.. Main feature .. And the author hounds on it and hounds on it.


That's so annoying, it makes me want to tug my braid. :mrgreen:

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