Ok.. so.. after hearing people talking about these books and tv shows.. I borrowed the books last week and decided to get further behind in my work and read them.

The story is good..but..is it just me but is the writer not all that good? he seems better in the idea than the execution.. and his editor sucks. I cant count how many times Ive read "should of" for "should have".. in a professionally published book!

All the "bad" guys talk the same.. and all the "good" guys talk the same so far..

Im entertained..but .. the books could be so much better..

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“If somebody thinks they're a hedgehog, presumably you just give them a mirror and a few pictures of hedgehogs and tell them to sort it out for themselves.”

I agree about the editor. Martin's writing is decent, but he spends too much time telling you what everyone is wearing all the time. the story is a good one so far, but I'm concerned that he's letting the story get away from him by shooting off on too many tangents. I hope I'm wrong, but I just anticipate a lot of characters' plotlines being abruptly ended by a senseless death over the course of the next two books.

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FrankerZ FrankerZ FrankerZ FrankerZ FrankerZ FrankerZ FrankerZ FrankerZ

I am half way through the second book and dont want to write spoilers though most everyone obviously is ahead of me..but man.. in the first book one huge story line just seemed pointless after one persons death.. if it was all done for back ground it could have been done in 20 pages instead of 10 sets of 20 pages.. Anyway..I am enjoying it..but feel pangs of disappointment for what COULD have been. The book seems almost better as a set up for an old fashioned role playing game sometimes..

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“If somebody thinks they're a hedgehog, presumably you just give them a mirror and a few pictures of hedgehogs and tell them to sort it out for themselves.”

Yeah, I'm with you on this. I'm really enjoying the story, but then these turns of phrase or glitches in grammar appear and take me out of it a little bit. I'm probably at about the same point you are, and I'll say that Martin's concept is super entertaining (at least to me), but the execution is a little lacking.

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Okay, so maybe that pass rush is still an issue. Lather, rinse, repeat.

The worst thing are his sexual descriptions. Saying that they were written with a 13 year old's sensibilities is generous. The story is great, but if most of it's pilfered from the War of the Roses, isn't it?

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My single greatest contribution to the board: "42-13" (formerly 24-14)

You guys are too smart for your own good.

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Tanzania¹²

VETAMUR, THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS POST.

Yes, all caps was warranted. I was trying not to fall asleep reading the first book of the series when I tried it years ago. He's NOT a good writer, in my opinion. That doesn't mean he might not have a great story to tell, but he's definitely a weak writer at best, in my opinion.

I got flayed when I mentioned this in a Game of Thrones TV show thread like a year ago. It's still to this day the only book I've ever stopped reading and didn't finish. In my whole life. I got 2/3rds of the way through or so and just gave it up.

I only started reading really about 2 and a half years ago, and I've read fantasy & sci-fi almost exclusively. I looked up some "best of" lists and just started going down the line (trying to complete series and throwing in some Star Wars here and there). I've read some great stories and some stinkers. To me, Ice & Fire was by far the most gripping story of them all. I've noticed editing/grammatical errors in a lot of these books here and there, Ice & Fire didn't seem to stand out to me but I could easily just not have noticed it.

Only book I gave up on was Steve Erickson's Gardens of The Moon. Couldn't stand it, and it was toward the top of a lot of these lists.

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Tanzania¹²

Its entertaining and a great story. i'm in the process of reading the series for the 2nd time (currently on the 3rd book) and none of those things bother me at all. I prefer just to enjoy adn not overanalyze.

Its my favorite book series. Followed closely by the Dark Tower.

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Yeah, this. Completely unnecessary sexual imagery. Gratuitous and not essential to the overall feel of the story, either. I'm not necessarily offended by the vulgarity, but just don't see the need for it. I felt the same way with some of King's works, too. It's like these writers just can't wait to slip some graphic sexuality into their books.

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FrankerZ FrankerZ FrankerZ FrankerZ FrankerZ FrankerZ FrankerZ FrankerZ

I am a huge fan of the books, and I think he's a fantastic writer, but that doesn't really matter.
I call bullshit on the "should of" bit. I have the book in PDF and never once are the words "should" and "of" printed in sequence. Maybe you were just trying to think of an example and came up with a bad one, but I don't know. I guess it's possible you have an older edit of the book than my PDF as well...who knows.
And Roland...seriously...a Stephen King fan saying Martin is a bad writer? Yikes...That's like a 49ers fan saying the Seahawks quarterback is a douche.

Call bullshit all you want, I ran across it again last night. I will take a pic next time I come across it.

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“If somebody thinks they're a hedgehog, presumably you just give them a mirror and a few pictures of hedgehogs and tell them to sort it out for themselves.”

Damn it, damn it, damn it! Just when I was about to start reading that series you have to go off and ruin it for me by saying it's full of some of my worst literary and grammatical pet peeves.

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I blog, I tweet. When I'm not writing or goofing around on Seahawks.NET.

Read it.

I read it. Yeah, he never says in 5 words what he can say in 100. I found myself skimming, and would have to put it down until I could pay more attention.

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SEAHAWKS.NET. We All We Got, We All We Need

"He never says in 5 words what he can say in 100." - that is another thing I have little time for. I am by nature a rather wordy author, and cut back severely in edits. I actually love editing more than writing, which is weird. To me, there's nothing cooler than a whole picture painted in just a few words. The authors who can do this successfully are truly great authors.

I'm afraid I'd spend the entire time reading mentally editing out all the superfluous wordage.

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I blog, I tweet. When I'm not writing or goofing around on Seahawks.NET.

Sometimes I forget that other people disliking something I like changes nothing in my life. Nevermind. Don't read it.

I've read about 40 fantasy/sci-fi novels over the last couple years and many of them probably longer than they needed to be. I did not find this to be the case with Martin. They're long but they move well imo.

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Tanzania¹²

I'm disappointed reading this thread. Game of Thrones was literally (or figuratively) next on my "read then watch" list. I have a very hard time with any fiction as it is, so, I kind of need it to be stellar.

I'll be monitoring this situation closely.

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@ryanadamdavis

I am trying the audiobook version of the newest one and its not working for me......I just cannot pay enough attention while driving and the old guy doing the womens voices bugs me. I will wait for it to come out on paperback I suppose

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