Musicians in the house?

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Re: Musicians in the house?
Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:24 pm
  • Largent80 wrote:
    Zebulon Dak wrote:
    Largent80 wrote:drums are more of an instrument than the guitar


    :roll:


    OK wise guy, come to L.A. and sit in for me. And I'll shred guitar while you miserably fail.


    Boy that'd really prove your point! How bout we put you behind a pair of turntables and mixer so we can prove that DJing is harder than playing drums!
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:29 pm
  • Come work from home and care for a 3yo girl too, while I play drums, ROB. How'd you like that?

    Yeah, you're making zero sense.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:38 pm
  • pehawk wrote:Come work from home and care for a 3yo girl too, while I play drums, ROB. How'd you like that?

    Yeah, you're making zero sense.


    Try moderating a site with the likes of Pehawk, Zeb, Largent80, Peaches.

    Drums are for kids. Any 3 year old can bang on things.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:45 pm
  • JSeahawks wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Come work from home and care for a 3yo girl too, while I play drums, ROB. How'd you like that?

    Yeah, you're making zero sense.


    Try moderating a site with the likes of Pehawk, Zeb, Largent80, Peaches.

    Drums are for kids. Any 3 year old can bang on things.


    Especially mods that entrap the problem posters, like me. Look at that bolded statement...look at it...he's setting me up for a vacation.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:50 pm
  • pehawk wrote:
    JSeahawks wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Come work from home and care for a 3yo girl too, while I play drums, ROB. How'd you like that?

    Yeah, you're making zero sense.


    Try moderating a site with the likes of Pehawk, Zeb, Largent80, Peaches.

    Drums are for kids. Any 3 year old can bang on things.


    Especially mods that entrap the problem posters, like me. Look at that bolded statement...look at it...he's setting me up for a vacation.


    It's unfair, really.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:00 pm
  • Whatchyall know bout that polka music though?
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:05 pm
  • Throwdown wrote:Whatchyall know bout that polka music though?


    big fan.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:09 pm
  • Now the accordion, THAT is a difficult instrument..........I bet
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:11 pm
  • Al Yankovic. Now there's a musician.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:27 pm
  • Weird Al> Beethoven
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:52 pm
  • Man, go back and listen to Wierd Al's stuff. He was a HUGE influence on guys like Michael Jackson, Coolio, Eminem, Madonna, Nirvana.... just amazing that all of those people basically ripped off his music.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:05 pm
  • true story.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:07 pm
  • You guys are so dumb. Weird Al copied THEM.

    So dumb, sooo dumb. I now hate each of you.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:23 pm
  • pehawk wrote:You guys are so dumb. Weird Al copied THEM.

    So dumb, sooo dumb. I now hate each of you.


    What? Impossible. Stop trolling. Seriously, it's weak as hell.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:47 pm
  • I always think of "Dare to be stupid" which was making fun of Devo, years later Mr. Mothersbaugh said he would kill to write a song that good, the ultimate show of respect.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:00 pm
  • dunceface wrote:Weird Al> Beethoven


    I hope you don't mean the Beethoven movies, cuz those are classic! Oh the mischief!
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:01 pm
  • Also George Michael is the greatest singer in the history of man
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:03 pm
  • Soothes the soul
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:13 pm
  • OMG George Michael is AMAZEBALLS!!!
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:22 pm
  • pehawk wrote:You guys are so dumb. Weird Al copied THEM.

    So dumb, sooo dumb. I now hate each of you.


    I don't even understand the words that's comin outta your mouth right now bro bro. I'm feeling a little confused about all this.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:17 am
  • peachesenregalia wrote:
    pehawk wrote:You guys are so dumb. Weird Al copied THEM.

    So dumb, sooo dumb. I now hate each of you.


    What? Impossible. Stop trolling. Seriously, it's weak as hell.


    every one that copied Weird Al over the years came clean in 2010 in an online chat room all at once and it was widely documented in youtube comment threads that anyone that doesnt know about this is themselves a troll.

    im surprised you guys dint know that :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:20 am
  • Hawk Strap wrote:Also George Michael is the greatest singer in the history of man


    Wham is also the greatest rock/pop duo in the history and future of rock and roll
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:34 am
  • 1. Michael Jackson
    2. Frank Sinatra
    3. George Michael
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:44 am
  • I dunno about the rest of you, even as a hip hop head I'm excited about that Jimi Hendrix album thats out today...
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:23 am
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:1. Michael Jackson
    2. Frank Sinatra
    3. George Michael


    So dumb. Where's Rick Astley?
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:31 am
  • Largent80 wrote:
    Zebulon Dak wrote:
    Largent80 wrote:drums are more of an instrument than the guitar


    :roll:


    OK wise guy, come to L.A. and sit in for me. And I'll shred guitar while you miserably fail.


    While you fail at logic.

    You being able to play drums and guitars better than anyone else has nothing to do with the difficulty of either.

    Drums and guitars are both instruments, how can one of them be more of an instrument?

    You are a bad-ass guitar player though:

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    And this post is not directed at anyone personally.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:58 am
  • that's umm....that's a bass, DTex.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:14 am
  • Bass? Who cares, kip. Look who's playing the insturment; Weird Al. Umm, kind of germane, Kip!

    So dumb, soooo dumb. I hate all of you.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:28 am
  • pehawk wrote:Bass? Who cares, kip. Look who's playing the insturment; Weird Al. Umm, kind of germane, Kip!

    So dumb, soooo dumb. I hate all of you.


    Come on, rob. Stop with all the hate. Also, that picture was taken when Weird Al was recording a song in 1965 called 'With a little help from my friends'. Sound familiar, Rob?
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:35 am
  • peachesenregalia wrote:that's umm....that's a bass, DTex.


    Right, a bass guitar.

    Thanks for your input.
    And this post is not directed at anyone personally.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:02 am
  • Whoever thinks those who produce hip hop aren't musicians have probably never had to program an Akai MPC or spend hours trying to track out a series of notes they hear in their head. Programming these devices is effectively the same exact thing as writing sheet music. Someone who writes sheet music is a musician, so why not someone who programs their song into a sequencer? Sounds like a clear cut case of short sighted condescension to me.

    It's kinda sad that there are some who would take an elitist stance on music when the crap they listen to qualifies for the "oldies" bin at any record store. That's not to say we should ignore the classics, but lots of great music has been composed since that time. Jus' sayin'.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:08 am
  • pehawk wrote:
    Largent80 wrote:
    dunceface wrote:Too lazy


    Which explains hip-hop and rap 100%.


    Yeah, because hair band music is way better than Outkast, for example. You sound like your parents describing Elvis' gyrating hips or something. Uggh.

    Great stuff, Todd.


    Good point. If Rob were to take Outkast at face value, he would write them off as just another hip-hop act, but that would belie the truth, which is Antwan "Big Boy" Patton and Andre "Andre 3000" Benjamin are multi instrumentalists who could easily put most musicians to shame with their skill. Admittedly, their technical breadth is not shared among many others in the hip-hop community, but they are undoubtedly some of the most talented musicians in the business. I just wish they would get their shit together and produce another record. Andre 3000 needs to give up the acting gig already.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:33 am
  • SmokinHawk wrote:Whoever thinks those who produce hip hop aren't musicians have probably never had to program an Akai MPC or spend hours trying to track out a series of notes they hear in their head. Programming these devices is effectively the same exact thing as writing sheet music. Someone who writes sheet music is a musician, so why not someone who programs their song into a sequencer? Sounds like a clear cut case of short sighted condescension to me.

    It's kinda sad that there are some who would take an elitist stance on music when the crap they listen to qualifies for the "oldies" bin at any record store. That's not to say we should ignore the classics, but lots of great music has been composed since that time. Jus' sayin'.


    if they aren't playing the actual notes through some sort of instrument, how can they be considered a musician.. they're not playing anything.. pretty sure most people who can read/write music play some sort of instrument... i'm not taking anything away from the creative/artist point of view, just don't consider them musicians... besides you don't have to read/write music to be a musician..

    if that makes me condescending or short sighted, guess i am.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:35 am
  • and if Andre and Big Boy can play instruments, then they're musicians and very talented artist no doubt...
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:46 am
  • hawker84 wrote:
    SmokinHawk wrote:Whoever thinks those who produce hip hop aren't musicians have probably never had to program an Akai MPC or spend hours trying to track out a series of notes they hear in their head. Programming these devices is effectively the same exact thing as writing sheet music. Someone who writes sheet music is a musician, so why not someone who programs their song into a sequencer? Sounds like a clear cut case of short sighted condescension to me.

    It's kinda sad that there are some who would take an elitist stance on music when the crap they listen to qualifies for the "oldies" bin at any record store. That's not to say we should ignore the classics, but lots of great music has been composed since that time. Jus' sayin'.


    if they aren't playing the actual notes through some sort of instrument, how can they be considered a musician.. they're not playing anything.. pretty sure most people who can read/write music play some sort of instrument... i'm not taking anything away from the creative/artist point of view, just don't consider them musicians... besides you don't have to read/write music to be a musician..

    if that makes me condescending or short sighted, guess i am.


    It does make you short sighted because what comprises an instrument seems to be a matter of your subjective opinion. It's not like you or Rob could just pick up an Akai MPC and program a masterpiece on it without first developing an extreme familiarity (read: practice) with the device, learning its quirks, learning how to shape the sounds it makes (you know, like bending strings on a guitar).

    How about we go with the actual dictionary definition of "musician", rather than your personal opinion? (this is per www.dictionary.com)

    dictionary.com wrote:mu·si·cian [myoo-zish-uhn]
    noun
    1. a person who makes music a profession, especially as a performer of music.
    2. any person, whether professional or not, skilled in music.


    So, given this definition of the word, how do hip-hop artists not qualify? Seems to me that if someone makes music, they are a musician.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:48 am
  • Music doesn't have to be good to be considered music. Musicians don't have to be good to be considered musicians. And just because the process has evolved doesn't make it any less music.

    I appreciate somebody who can write music and play an instrument. Believe me, I do. I understand that it's a completely different skill set than somebody who can write lyrics and sing or rap. But being able to write and record a song from nothing, from an idea or an inspiration, no matter what tools you used or how you got there, IMO makes you a musician.

    That said, I know hundreds of rappers and there's but a handful that I would actually consider musicians.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:52 am
  • hawker84 wrote:
    SmokinHawk wrote:Whoever thinks those who produce hip hop aren't musicians have probably never had to program an Akai MPC or spend hours trying to track out a series of notes they hear in their head. Programming these devices is effectively the same exact thing as writing sheet music. Someone who writes sheet music is a musician, so why not someone who programs their song into a sequencer? Sounds like a clear cut case of short sighted condescension to me.

    It's kinda sad that there are some who would take an elitist stance on music when the crap they listen to qualifies for the "oldies" bin at any record store. That's not to say we should ignore the classics, but lots of great music has been composed since that time. Jus' sayin'.


    if they aren't playing the actual notes through some sort of instrument, how can they be considered a musician.. they're not playing anything.. pretty sure most people who can read/write music play some sort of instrument... i'm not taking anything away from the creative/artist point of view, just don't consider them musicians... besides you don't have to read/write music to be a musician..

    if that makes me condescending or short sighted, guess i am.


    So I guess what you're saying is, someone with a Motif keyboard, hooked up to their MPC, or other sound racks hooked up to a midi controller aren't really musicians even though they're actually out there playing those keys? I don't get it.

    As for Sampling (taking parts from a song and basically recreating it) I can see your point, but theres also the point of putting your own drum loops over it, through the MPC or any other method. Is that creating music? Are you just creating organized noise at that point?
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:04 am
  • Throwdown wrote:
    hawker84 wrote:
    SmokinHawk wrote:Whoever thinks those who produce hip hop aren't musicians have probably never had to program an Akai MPC or spend hours trying to track out a series of notes they hear in their head. Programming these devices is effectively the same exact thing as writing sheet music. Someone who writes sheet music is a musician, so why not someone who programs their song into a sequencer? Sounds like a clear cut case of short sighted condescension to me.

    It's kinda sad that there are some who would take an elitist stance on music when the crap they listen to qualifies for the "oldies" bin at any record store. That's not to say we should ignore the classics, but lots of great music has been composed since that time. Jus' sayin'.


    if they aren't playing the actual notes through some sort of instrument, how can they be considered a musician.. they're not playing anything.. pretty sure most people who can read/write music play some sort of instrument... i'm not taking anything away from the creative/artist point of view, just don't consider them musicians... besides you don't have to read/write music to be a musician..

    if that makes me condescending or short sighted, guess i am.


    So I guess what you're saying is, someone with a Motif keyboard, hooked up to their MPC, or other sound racks hooked up to a midi controller aren't really musicians even though they're actually out there playing those keys? I don't get it.

    As for Sampling (taking parts from a song and basically recreating it) I can see your point, but theres also the point of putting your own drum loops over it, through the MPC or any other method. Is that creating music? Are you just creating organized noise at that point?


    Sampling is a tool used by musicians, in my opinion. Relying too heavily on sampling is the sign of a hack but could you imagine all those early 90s hip-hop tracks WITHOUT Dr. Dre on the wheels of steel? Turntablism is a musical performing art, in my opinion, even if it does involve borrowing other people's beats.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:14 am
  • SmokinHawk wrote:
    Sampling is a tool used by musicians, in my opinion. Relying too heavily on sampling is the sign of a hack but could you imagine all those early 90s hip-hop tracks WITHOUT Dr. Dre on the wheels of steel? Turntablism is a musical performing art, in my opinion, even if it does involve borrowing other people's beats.


    Samplings been around as long as hip hop, it's almost like something if you're a producer its something you should totally be capable of doing IMO, and do it well.

    Personally I love it when a producer takes the best of both worlds, putting synths & keys over samples, stuff sounds amazing!

    As someone whos seen the creative process and have done it before when it comes to producing a track, and I think Dunce and Zeb can say amen to it, its a process making beats, but there are points in the process where stuff just flows out of your head and its almost a high you get when it happens.

    I don't do it much now, partly because i don't know why, I get angry when I try now because I'm forcing stuff. But when I was heavy into it, nothing was a better feeling than hitting that zone.

    But people can say that hip hop producers aren't musicians, but I'd beg to differ. If anyone has seen guys like Black Milk or Hi-Tek at work (and you can, check out youtube) you'd see theres more than just playing around with noises.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:21 am
  • Looping a sample and putting drums on it is not that difficult, usually. But being able to sample well and creatively is a skill most do not possess.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:33 am
  • hawker84 wrote:
    SmokinHawk wrote:Whoever thinks those who produce hip hop aren't musicians have probably never had to program an Akai MPC or spend hours trying to track out a series of notes they hear in their head. Programming these devices is effectively the same exact thing as writing sheet music. Someone who writes sheet music is a musician, so why not someone who programs their song into a sequencer? Sounds like a clear cut case of short sighted condescension to me.

    It's kinda sad that there are some who would take an elitist stance on music when the crap they listen to qualifies for the "oldies" bin at any record store. That's not to say we should ignore the classics, but lots of great music has been composed since that time. Jus' sayin'.


    if they aren't playing the actual notes through some sort of instrument, how can they be considered a musician.. they're not playing anything.. pretty sure most people who can read/write music play some sort of instrument... i'm not taking anything away from the creative/artist point of view, just don't consider them musicians... besides you don't have to read/write music to be a musician..

    if that makes me condescending or short sighted, guess i am.


    A computer is an instrument. You give it input, it gives you outputs. If you believe that a keyboard is an instrument, then you believe that a computer is an instrument. A sampler is an instrument. Actually, anything can be an instrument. Les Claypool constructed the Whamola with a bass string, a double-bass neck and a pulley and a hinge. he plays it with a drumstick. That1guy made the magic pipe with some plumbing pipes and fittings, a couple of piano strings and a bunch of pickups. There's a famous Frank Zappa video when he was like 18 playing on an upturned bicycle with some drumsticks and making percussion sounds. Just because you don't think it's an instrument, doesn't mean it's not an instrument.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:57 am
  • again, i'm not taking anything away from the creative artistry of producers rappers whatever.. i think what they do is a skilled craft and some of it is very impressive.. i was talking more of the sampling part of it.. (yes i think you can still be a musician and sample music into the piece, if you're playing along with it at some point) ...

    unless you are actually creating the notes that in turn creats the musical piece whether live or recording, you are not a musician.. if you take a piece of pre-recorded music or single notes and add it to a song, you are not creating that music, you are however creating a musical piece (song), there's a difference...

    as far as a computer, tell me what notes can you produce on a computer that wasn't already pre-recorded in it's memory?
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:00 pm
  • hawker84 wrote:again, i'm not taking anything away from the creative artistry of producers rappers whatever.. i think what they do is a skilled craft and some of it is very impressive.. i was talking more of the sampling part of it.. (yes i think you can still be a musician and sample music into the piece, if you're playing along with it at some point) ...

    unless you are actually creating the notes that in turn creats the musical piece whether live or recording, you are not a musician.. if you take a piece of pre-recorded music or single notes and add it to a song, you are not creating that music, you are however creating a musical piece (song), there's a difference...

    as far as a computer, tell me what notes can you produce on a computer that wasn't already pre-recorded in it's memory?


    Do you know how a keyboard works?
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:16 pm
  • hawker84 wrote:again, i'm not taking anything away from the creative artistry of producers rappers whatever.. i think what they do is a skilled craft and some of it is very impressive.. i was talking more of the sampling part of it.. (yes i think you can still be a musician and sample music into the piece, if you're playing along with it at some point) ...

    unless you are actually creating the notes that in turn creats the musical piece whether live or recording, you are not a musician.. if you take a piece of pre-recorded music or single notes and add it to a song, you are not creating that music, you are however creating a musical piece (song), there's a difference...

    as far as a computer, tell me what notes can you produce on a computer that wasn't already pre-recorded in it's memory?


    The difference exists solely in your head, I think. Musicians create music. Hip-hop artists create hip-hop. Hip-hop is music. Therefore by nature of the transitive property, hip-hop artists are musicians.

    Most hip-hop music isn't even sampled anymore. The vast majority of it is created from scratch using things like live instruments, sequencers, synthesizers (you know, like those made famous by Steve Miller and Pink Floyd), and audio production software. There are relatively few discernible differences between producing rock and hip-hop. All music effectively requires the same base ingredients, I think all we are debating here is what you will personally consider to be a musical instrument.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:23 pm
  • yes i know how keyboards work, i know they can sample, i know they have beat tracks, i know they have different sounds and can imulate different instruments and many other capabilities..

    however somebody is usually manually playing the keys.. so please tell me how you can play a computer like a piano? i've been in bands where music was sequenced and we played to a click track, however we were still playing our instruments along with it...

    you will never convince me that somebody playing a computer is the equivelent to somebody playing a piano, guitar, drums, trumpet... not the same...

    and SmokinHawk - agreed , we have a difference of opinion on what constitutes a musical instrument.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:26 pm
  • hawker84 wrote:again, i'm not taking anything away from the creative artistry of producers rappers whatever.. i think what they do is a skilled craft and some of it is very impressive.. i was talking more of the sampling part of it.. (yes i think you can still be a musician and sample music into the piece, if you're playing along with it at some point) ...

    unless you are actually creating the notes that in turn creats the musical piece whether live or recording, you are not a musician.. if you take a piece of pre-recorded music or single notes and add it to a song, you are not creating that music, you are however creating a musical piece (song), there's a difference...

    as far as a computer, tell me what notes can you produce on a computer that wasn't already pre-recorded in it's memory?


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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:33 pm
  • hawker84 wrote:yes i know how keyboards work, i know they can sample, i know they have beat tracks, i know they have different sounds and can imulate different instruments and many other capabilities..

    however somebody is usually manually playing the keys.. so please tell me how you can play a computer like a piano? i've been in bands where music was sequenced and we played to a click track, however we were still playing our instruments along with it...

    you will never convince me that somebody playing a computer is the equivelent to somebody playing a piano, guitar, drums, trumpet... not the same...

    and SmokinHawk - agreed , we have a difference of opinion on what constitutes a musical instrument.


    Attach a MIDI controller like an M-Audio Axiom to a PC, add a software package like FL Studio, watch as it suddenly becomes the world's most powerful synthesizer.

    Most of the sequenced bits you hear in music today was probably tracked out by a guy playing on black 'n white keys. Does it make them less of a musician because they are recording the note data (facilitating easier editing, among other benefits), rather than the analog output of the instrument?
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:35 pm
  • hawker84 wrote:yes i know how keyboards work, i know they can sample, i know they have beat tracks, i know they have different sounds and can imulate different instruments and many other capabilities..

    however somebody is usually manually playing the keys.. so please tell me how you can play a computer like a piano? i've been in bands where music was sequenced and we played to a click track, however we were still playing our instruments along with it...

    you will never convince me that somebody playing a computer is the equivelent to somebody playing a piano, guitar, drums, trumpet... not the same...

    and SmokinHawk - agreed , we have a difference of opinion on what constitutes a musical instrument.


    You use existing scales and licks to compose your music, right? You've never played a I-IV-V or lifted a lick you learned when you were younger during a solo?
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:44 pm
  • The I-IV-V is the staple of most songs. Include a relative minor for embellishment on interludes or pre-choruses.

    Everyone steals licks and maybe does different variations of them to "make it their own". And music is whatever the musician or listener likes/believes.

    You can try and cram ideologies down someones throat but bottom line is each person has their own idea of what makes music and what does not.
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Re: Musicians in the house?
Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:45 pm
  • yes i have my influences that shaped my core playing, but i took the time to learn the licks, learn the notes/chords learn the scales, learned the different techniques and perfected them.. any bass line that you can compose on a computer using sampled tracks, i can duplicate on an actual bass...

    so what you're saying is in actuality i was human sampling?
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