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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:13 pm 
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I took guitar and piano lessons as a kid but once i started making weird sounds with a computer it just did it for me right off the bat

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:46 am 
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i don't think people who write and/or produce hip hop is lazy. i do actually consider them artist, but it drives me fricken nuts when they are introduced as musicians...

unless you actually physically play an instrument, you are not a musician.. if all you do is sing you are not a musician. ...if you spin turntables you are not a musician.... if you are a drummer, well then you hang out with musicians (joke)....

musicians create music through instruments, not pre-recorded music... if rappers want to be considered musicians, then go pick up a 1.79 kazoo or mouth harp, and throw some of them tracks in your mix, now you're cooking with oil....

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:45 pm 
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I always invite guitarists to take a seat behind my drums and I pick up the guitar. Something miraculous happens. They realize they stink, and that the drums are more of an instrument than the guitar, (which I have been playing for 20 years)...The joke is on them.

Artistry is artistry, musicianship and DJ are not in the same category.

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Last edited by Largent80 on Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:15 pm 
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agreed, drums are hard as hell to master.. had it not been for the ridiculous loading in and out of all that gear, i'd be a drummer today..

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:33 pm 
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Largent80 wrote:
drums are more of an instrument than the guitar


:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:21 pm 
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nothing better than musical dick measuring.

Music is music. You might not like it, but it's still music. Comes in many forms. go listen to 'Hot Poop' or 'The chrome-plated megaphone of destiny' by Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention and tell me if you think it qualifies as music. It does. I'm not really into most rap or hip-hop music, but I respect the guys who do it and do it well, I respect the technicians creating interesting beats and I think it's just as much music as anything else is. craft is craft. Get over yourselves.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:57 pm 
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peachesenregalia wrote:
nothing better than musical dick measuring.

Music is music. You might not like it, but it's still music. Comes in many forms. go listen to 'Hot Poop' or 'The chrome-plated megaphone of destiny' by Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention and tell me if you think it qualifies as music. It does. I'm not really into most rap or hip-hop music, but I respect the guys who do it and do it well, I respect the technicians creating interesting beats and I think it's just as much music as anything else is. craft is craft. Get over yourselves.


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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:54 pm 
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That clip is so right in so many ways, Zeb.


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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:57 pm 
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peachesenregalia wrote:
nothing better than musical dick measuring.

Music is music. You might not like it, but it's still music. Comes in many forms. go listen to 'Hot Poop' or 'The chrome-plated megaphone of destiny' by Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention and tell me if you think it qualifies as music. It does. I'm not really into most rap or hip-hop music, but I respect the guys who do it and do it well, I respect the technicians creating interesting beats and I think it's just as much music as anything else is. craft is craft. Get over yourselves.


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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:16 pm 
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Zebulon Dak wrote:
Largent80 wrote:
drums are more of an instrument than the guitar


:roll:


OK wise guy, come to L.A. and sit in for me. And I'll shred guitar while you miserably fail.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:24 pm 
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Largent80 wrote:
Zebulon Dak wrote:
Largent80 wrote:
drums are more of an instrument than the guitar


:roll:


OK wise guy, come to L.A. and sit in for me. And I'll shred guitar while you miserably fail.


Boy that'd really prove your point! How bout we put you behind a pair of turntables and mixer so we can prove that DJing is harder than playing drums!

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:29 pm 
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Come work from home and care for a 3yo girl too, while I play drums, ROB. How'd you like that?

Yeah, you're making zero sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:38 pm 
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pehawk wrote:
Come work from home and care for a 3yo girl too, while I play drums, ROB. How'd you like that?

Yeah, you're making zero sense.


Try moderating a site with the likes of Pehawk, Zeb, Largent80, Peaches.

Drums are for kids. Any 3 year old can bang on things.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:45 pm 
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JSeahawks wrote:
pehawk wrote:
Come work from home and care for a 3yo girl too, while I play drums, ROB. How'd you like that?

Yeah, you're making zero sense.


Try moderating a site with the likes of Pehawk, Zeb, Largent80, Peaches.

Drums are for kids. Any 3 year old can bang on things.


Especially mods that entrap the problem posters, like me. Look at that bolded statement...look at it...he's setting me up for a vacation.


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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:50 pm 
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pehawk wrote:
JSeahawks wrote:
pehawk wrote:
Come work from home and care for a 3yo girl too, while I play drums, ROB. How'd you like that?

Yeah, you're making zero sense.


Try moderating a site with the likes of Pehawk, Zeb, Largent80, Peaches.

Drums are for kids. Any 3 year old can bang on things.


Especially mods that entrap the problem posters, like me. Look at that bolded statement...look at it...he's setting me up for a vacation.


It's unfair, really.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:00 pm 
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Whatchyall know bout that polka music though?

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:05 pm 
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Throwdown wrote:
Whatchyall know bout that polka music though?


big fan.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:09 pm 
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Now the accordion, THAT is a difficult instrument..........I bet

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:11 pm 
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Al Yankovic. Now there's a musician.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:27 pm 
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Weird Al> Beethoven

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:52 pm 
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Man, go back and listen to Wierd Al's stuff. He was a HUGE influence on guys like Michael Jackson, Coolio, Eminem, Madonna, Nirvana.... just amazing that all of those people basically ripped off his music.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:05 pm 
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true story.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:07 pm 
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You guys are so dumb. Weird Al copied THEM.

So dumb, sooo dumb. I now hate each of you.


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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:23 pm 
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pehawk wrote:
You guys are so dumb. Weird Al copied THEM.

So dumb, sooo dumb. I now hate each of you.


What? Impossible. Stop trolling. Seriously, it's weak as hell.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:47 pm 
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I always think of "Dare to be stupid" which was making fun of Devo, years later Mr. Mothersbaugh said he would kill to write a song that good, the ultimate show of respect.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:00 pm 
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dunceface wrote:
Weird Al> Beethoven


I hope you don't mean the Beethoven movies, cuz those are classic! Oh the mischief!

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:01 pm 
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Also George Michael is the greatest singer in the history of man

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:03 pm 
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Soothes the soul

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:13 pm 
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OMG George Michael is AMAZEBALLS!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:22 pm 
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pehawk wrote:
You guys are so dumb. Weird Al copied THEM.

So dumb, sooo dumb. I now hate each of you.


I don't even understand the words that's comin outta your mouth right now bro bro. I'm feeling a little confused about all this.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:17 am 
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peachesenregalia wrote:
pehawk wrote:
You guys are so dumb. Weird Al copied THEM.

So dumb, sooo dumb. I now hate each of you.


What? Impossible. Stop trolling. Seriously, it's weak as hell.


every one that copied Weird Al over the years came clean in 2010 in an online chat room all at once and it was widely documented in youtube comment threads that anyone that doesnt know about this is themselves a troll.

im surprised you guys dint know that :roll: :roll: :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:20 am 
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Hawk Strap wrote:
Also George Michael is the greatest singer in the history of man


Wham is also the greatest rock/pop duo in the history and future of rock and roll
CHANGED THE GAME.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:34 am 
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1. Michael Jackson
2. Frank Sinatra
3. George Michael

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:44 am 
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I dunno about the rest of you, even as a hip hop head I'm excited about that Jimi Hendrix album thats out today...

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:23 am 
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Zebulon Dak wrote:
1. Michael Jackson
2. Frank Sinatra
3. George Michael


So dumb. Where's Rick Astley?


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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:31 am 
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Largent80 wrote:
Zebulon Dak wrote:
Largent80 wrote:
drums are more of an instrument than the guitar


:roll:


OK wise guy, come to L.A. and sit in for me. And I'll shred guitar while you miserably fail.


While you fail at logic.

You being able to play drums and guitars better than anyone else has nothing to do with the difficulty of either.

Drums and guitars are both instruments, how can one of them be more of an instrument?

You are a bad-ass guitar player though:

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:58 am 
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that's umm....that's a bass, DTex.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:14 am 
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Bass? Who cares, kip. Look who's playing the insturment; Weird Al. Umm, kind of germane, Kip!

So dumb, soooo dumb. I hate all of you.


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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:28 am 
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pehawk wrote:
Bass? Who cares, kip. Look who's playing the insturment; Weird Al. Umm, kind of germane, Kip!

So dumb, soooo dumb. I hate all of you.


Come on, rob. Stop with all the hate. Also, that picture was taken when Weird Al was recording a song in 1965 called 'With a little help from my friends'. Sound familiar, Rob?

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:35 am 
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peachesenregalia wrote:
that's umm....that's a bass, DTex.


Right, a bass guitar.

Thanks for your input.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:02 am 
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Whoever thinks those who produce hip hop aren't musicians have probably never had to program an Akai MPC or spend hours trying to track out a series of notes they hear in their head. Programming these devices is effectively the same exact thing as writing sheet music. Someone who writes sheet music is a musician, so why not someone who programs their song into a sequencer? Sounds like a clear cut case of short sighted condescension to me.

It's kinda sad that there are some who would take an elitist stance on music when the crap they listen to qualifies for the "oldies" bin at any record store. That's not to say we should ignore the classics, but lots of great music has been composed since that time. Jus' sayin'.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:08 am 
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pehawk wrote:
Largent80 wrote:
dunceface wrote:
Too lazy


Which explains hip-hop and rap 100%.


Yeah, because hair band music is way better than Outkast, for example. You sound like your parents describing Elvis' gyrating hips or something. Uggh.

Great stuff, Todd.


Good point. If Rob were to take Outkast at face value, he would write them off as just another hip-hop act, but that would belie the truth, which is Antwan "Big Boy" Patton and Andre "Andre 3000" Benjamin are multi instrumentalists who could easily put most musicians to shame with their skill. Admittedly, their technical breadth is not shared among many others in the hip-hop community, but they are undoubtedly some of the most talented musicians in the business. I just wish they would get their shit together and produce another record. Andre 3000 needs to give up the acting gig already.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:33 am 
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SmokinHawk wrote:
Whoever thinks those who produce hip hop aren't musicians have probably never had to program an Akai MPC or spend hours trying to track out a series of notes they hear in their head. Programming these devices is effectively the same exact thing as writing sheet music. Someone who writes sheet music is a musician, so why not someone who programs their song into a sequencer? Sounds like a clear cut case of short sighted condescension to me.

It's kinda sad that there are some who would take an elitist stance on music when the crap they listen to qualifies for the "oldies" bin at any record store. That's not to say we should ignore the classics, but lots of great music has been composed since that time. Jus' sayin'.


if they aren't playing the actual notes through some sort of instrument, how can they be considered a musician.. they're not playing anything.. pretty sure most people who can read/write music play some sort of instrument... i'm not taking anything away from the creative/artist point of view, just don't consider them musicians... besides you don't have to read/write music to be a musician..

if that makes me condescending or short sighted, guess i am.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
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and if Andre and Big Boy can play instruments, then they're musicians and very talented artist no doubt...

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
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hawker84 wrote:
SmokinHawk wrote:
Whoever thinks those who produce hip hop aren't musicians have probably never had to program an Akai MPC or spend hours trying to track out a series of notes they hear in their head. Programming these devices is effectively the same exact thing as writing sheet music. Someone who writes sheet music is a musician, so why not someone who programs their song into a sequencer? Sounds like a clear cut case of short sighted condescension to me.

It's kinda sad that there are some who would take an elitist stance on music when the crap they listen to qualifies for the "oldies" bin at any record store. That's not to say we should ignore the classics, but lots of great music has been composed since that time. Jus' sayin'.


if they aren't playing the actual notes through some sort of instrument, how can they be considered a musician.. they're not playing anything.. pretty sure most people who can read/write music play some sort of instrument... i'm not taking anything away from the creative/artist point of view, just don't consider them musicians... besides you don't have to read/write music to be a musician..

if that makes me condescending or short sighted, guess i am.


It does make you short sighted because what comprises an instrument seems to be a matter of your subjective opinion. It's not like you or Rob could just pick up an Akai MPC and program a masterpiece on it without first developing an extreme familiarity (read: practice) with the device, learning its quirks, learning how to shape the sounds it makes (you know, like bending strings on a guitar).

How about we go with the actual dictionary definition of "musician", rather than your personal opinion? (this is per www.dictionary.com)

dictionary.com wrote:
mu·si·cian [myoo-zish-uhn]
noun
1. a person who makes music a profession, especially as a performer of music.
2. any person, whether professional or not, skilled in music.


So, given this definition of the word, how do hip-hop artists not qualify? Seems to me that if someone makes music, they are a musician.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:48 am 
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Music doesn't have to be good to be considered music. Musicians don't have to be good to be considered musicians. And just because the process has evolved doesn't make it any less music.

I appreciate somebody who can write music and play an instrument. Believe me, I do. I understand that it's a completely different skill set than somebody who can write lyrics and sing or rap. But being able to write and record a song from nothing, from an idea or an inspiration, no matter what tools you used or how you got there, IMO makes you a musician.

That said, I know hundreds of rappers and there's but a handful that I would actually consider musicians.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:52 am 
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hawker84 wrote:
SmokinHawk wrote:
Whoever thinks those who produce hip hop aren't musicians have probably never had to program an Akai MPC or spend hours trying to track out a series of notes they hear in their head. Programming these devices is effectively the same exact thing as writing sheet music. Someone who writes sheet music is a musician, so why not someone who programs their song into a sequencer? Sounds like a clear cut case of short sighted condescension to me.

It's kinda sad that there are some who would take an elitist stance on music when the crap they listen to qualifies for the "oldies" bin at any record store. That's not to say we should ignore the classics, but lots of great music has been composed since that time. Jus' sayin'.


if they aren't playing the actual notes through some sort of instrument, how can they be considered a musician.. they're not playing anything.. pretty sure most people who can read/write music play some sort of instrument... i'm not taking anything away from the creative/artist point of view, just don't consider them musicians... besides you don't have to read/write music to be a musician..

if that makes me condescending or short sighted, guess i am.


So I guess what you're saying is, someone with a Motif keyboard, hooked up to their MPC, or other sound racks hooked up to a midi controller aren't really musicians even though they're actually out there playing those keys? I don't get it.

As for Sampling (taking parts from a song and basically recreating it) I can see your point, but theres also the point of putting your own drum loops over it, through the MPC or any other method. Is that creating music? Are you just creating organized noise at that point?

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:04 am 
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Throwdown wrote:
hawker84 wrote:
SmokinHawk wrote:
Whoever thinks those who produce hip hop aren't musicians have probably never had to program an Akai MPC or spend hours trying to track out a series of notes they hear in their head. Programming these devices is effectively the same exact thing as writing sheet music. Someone who writes sheet music is a musician, so why not someone who programs their song into a sequencer? Sounds like a clear cut case of short sighted condescension to me.

It's kinda sad that there are some who would take an elitist stance on music when the crap they listen to qualifies for the "oldies" bin at any record store. That's not to say we should ignore the classics, but lots of great music has been composed since that time. Jus' sayin'.


if they aren't playing the actual notes through some sort of instrument, how can they be considered a musician.. they're not playing anything.. pretty sure most people who can read/write music play some sort of instrument... i'm not taking anything away from the creative/artist point of view, just don't consider them musicians... besides you don't have to read/write music to be a musician..

if that makes me condescending or short sighted, guess i am.


So I guess what you're saying is, someone with a Motif keyboard, hooked up to their MPC, or other sound racks hooked up to a midi controller aren't really musicians even though they're actually out there playing those keys? I don't get it.

As for Sampling (taking parts from a song and basically recreating it) I can see your point, but theres also the point of putting your own drum loops over it, through the MPC or any other method. Is that creating music? Are you just creating organized noise at that point?


Sampling is a tool used by musicians, in my opinion. Relying too heavily on sampling is the sign of a hack but could you imagine all those early 90s hip-hop tracks WITHOUT Dr. Dre on the wheels of steel? Turntablism is a musical performing art, in my opinion, even if it does involve borrowing other people's beats.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:14 am 
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SmokinHawk wrote:

Sampling is a tool used by musicians, in my opinion. Relying too heavily on sampling is the sign of a hack but could you imagine all those early 90s hip-hop tracks WITHOUT Dr. Dre on the wheels of steel? Turntablism is a musical performing art, in my opinion, even if it does involve borrowing other people's beats.


Samplings been around as long as hip hop, it's almost like something if you're a producer its something you should totally be capable of doing IMO, and do it well.

Personally I love it when a producer takes the best of both worlds, putting synths & keys over samples, stuff sounds amazing!

As someone whos seen the creative process and have done it before when it comes to producing a track, and I think Dunce and Zeb can say amen to it, its a process making beats, but there are points in the process where stuff just flows out of your head and its almost a high you get when it happens.

I don't do it much now, partly because i don't know why, I get angry when I try now because I'm forcing stuff. But when I was heavy into it, nothing was a better feeling than hitting that zone.

But people can say that hip hop producers aren't musicians, but I'd beg to differ. If anyone has seen guys like Black Milk or Hi-Tek at work (and you can, check out youtube) you'd see theres more than just playing around with noises.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:21 am 
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Looping a sample and putting drums on it is not that difficult, usually. But being able to sample well and creatively is a skill most do not possess.

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