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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:48 pm 
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Most of the sequenced bits you hear in music today was probably tracked out by a guy playing on black 'n white keys. Does it make them less of a musician because they are recording the note data (facilitating easier editing, among other benefits), rather than the analog output of the instrument?

no absolutely not.. the guy that actually tracked out the music is a musician.. what i'm saying is if someone, who doesn't play an instrument takes those tracks and blends them to create a song.. they are a producer not a musician....

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:50 pm 
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mu·si·cian (my-zshn)
n.
One who composes, conducts, or performs music, especially instrumental music

An electronic composer would be considered a musician by definition.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:51 pm 
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You guys are missing the point. Anything that makes noise is an instrument. Anyone that makes some kind of input or manipulation into that instrument for the purpose of listening to it is making music and is therefore an musician. That's what's so amazing about music. Literally anyone can do it and there are no rules. Some of you are trying to impose a set of subjective rules and parameters on what qualifies as music, and it's a complete fallacy. Anything that a person enjoys listening to is music. Edgard Varese had a record that was nothing but abstract avant garde noises with different sirens playing over it. That was music. the sirens were instruments Now, because Edgard Varese wasn't standing there actively "playing" the sirens, does that mean he's not a musician?

Sort yourselves out. For real.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:54 pm 
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Largent80 wrote:
You can try and cram ideologies down someones throat but bottom line is each person has their own idea of what makes music and what does not.


Actually, no I dont. Music is music.

As I pointed out, you Rob are a HACK to a composer of large symphonies. They look at you're lil 4 piece set-up as trite and easy. And, using your own logic, they'd be right in that assessment.


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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:55 pm 
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pehawk wrote:
Largent80 wrote:
You can try and cram ideologies down someones throat but bottom line is each person has their own idea of what makes music and what does not.


Actually, no I dont. Music is music.

As I pointed out, you Rob are a HACK to a composer of large symphonies. They look at you're lil 4 piece set-up as trite and easy. And, using your own logic, they'd be right in that assessment.


But that weak ass composer doesn't even play the instruments!!

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:55 pm 
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well you can't argue with the last two post...

however i'll say this.. you can go to a Steve Via or Victor Wooten show with just him on stage playing his guitar/bass and be wowed...

doesn anyone on here think you would be wowed at a show with a guy on stage sitting down at a computer clicking a mouse?

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:57 pm 
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hawker84 wrote:
well you can't argue with the last two post...

however i'll say this.. you can go to a Steve Via or Victor Wooten show with just him on stage playing his guitar/bass and be wowed...

doesn anyone on here think you would be wowed at a show with a guy on stage sitting down at a computer clicking a mouse?


If Vai only recorded music and never performed live, would that make him less of a musician?

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:58 pm 
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But that weak ass composer doesn't even play the instruments!!

i'm assuming that's a dig on me... i never said producers were weak, matter of fact i specifically said, some of them are very impressive, creative etc..... i just don't consider them musicians (according to my beliefs of what musician is.)

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:59 pm 
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Largent80 wrote:
The I-IV-V is the staple of most songs. Include a relative minor for embellishment on interludes or pre-choruses.

Everyone steals licks and maybe does different variations of them to "make it their own". And music is whatever the musician or listener likes/believes.

You can try and cram ideologies down someones throat but bottom line is each person has their own idea of what makes music and what does not.


The I-IV-V progression was incredibly common in rock music during the 60s, 70s, on into the 80s and even a bit into the 90s, but short of an AC/DC or Nickelback song, it's becoming decidedly less commonplace in new music. Given your musical tastes, I can understand why you would find it so ubiquitous, but venture outside of cookie cutter arena rock and it all but disappears. It's simply too formulaic for contemporary rock music, and I honestly can't remember the last good, new song I heard with a I-IV-V progression.

We can agree that everyone is entitled to their own idea of what makes for good music, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:00 pm 
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you're missing the point.. it has nothing to do with live or recording.. if you create the music by playing an instrument whether it's a guitar or garbage can lid, you're a musician... if you don't know how to play a garbage can lid , or any other type of instrument i don't consider you a musician.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:03 pm 
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I IV V is a blues progression, which rock n roll was formed... well before the 60's

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:03 pm 
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hawker84 wrote:
you're missing the point.. it has nothing to do with live or recording.. if you create the music by playing an instrument whether it's a guitar or garbage can lid, you're a musician... if you don't know how to play a garbage can lid , or any other type of instrument i don't consider you a musician.


It sounds to me like you are simply picking, choosing, and changing what you consider to be an instrument/music in order to avoid having to say someone in the field of hip-hop or electronica is a musician.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:03 pm 
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hawker84 wrote:
you're missing the point.. it has nothing to do with live or recording.. if you create the music by playing an instrument whether it's a guitar or garbage can lid, you're a musician... if you don't know how to play a garbage can lid , or any other type of instrument i don't consider you a musician.


You're missing the point. The computer IS the instrument. How is it not?

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:05 pm 
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1,4,5 is music theory , based on a series of 7 notes with root, harmony, and octave notes, millions of songs were and still are written that way and in fact most songs that people actually remember and love over time were created that way.

I am a professional hack by the way.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:07 pm 
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Zebulon Dak wrote:
hawker84 wrote:
you're missing the point.. it has nothing to do with live or recording.. if you create the music by playing an instrument whether it's a guitar or garbage can lid, you're a musician... if you don't know how to play a garbage can lid , or any other type of instrument i don't consider you a musician.


You're missing the point. The computer IS the instrument. How is it not?


This. I love how Hawker completely ignored my last couple of posts on this.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:08 pm 
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hawker84 wrote:
well you can't argue with the last two post...

however i'll say this.. you can go to a Steve Via or Victor Wooten show with just him on stage playing his guitar/bass and be wowed...

doesn anyone on here think you would be wowed at a show with a guy on stage sitting down at a computer clicking a mouse?


That's kinda what Deadmau5 does, isn't it? The dude's an incredibly successful electronic musician, and his shows are literally him dancing in his characteristic zombie mouse head costume, clicking a computer mouse, turning knobs, and occasionally hitting a key or contact pad to provide some embellishment. Personally, I think he sucks ass, but recognize him as a musician, as do the hordes of fans who pay $80 a ticket to see him live.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:09 pm 
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how am i picking and choosing anything...

if you don't play an instrument, you're not a musician in my opinion.. how has my view changed on this....

and no a computer is not an instrument, it's a recording device among other things.. if i was to take my computer to the geek squad and have them wipe the memory clean.. could i then take it home, plug it in and create music? i can on my bass...

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:11 pm 
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hawker84 wrote:
how am i picking and choosing anything...

if you don't play an instrument, you're not a musician in my opinion.. how has my view changed on this....

and no a computer is not an instrument, it's a recording device among other things.. if i was to take my computer to the geek squad and have them wipe the memory clean.. could i then take it home, plug it in and create music? i can on my bass...


Yeah, you're right man. How could I have been such a fool?

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:12 pm 
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That's kinda what Deadmau5 does, isn't it? The dude's an incredibly successful electronic musician, and his shows are literally him dancing in his characteristic zombie mouse head costume, clicking a computer mouse, turning knobs, and occasionally hitting a key or contact pad to provide some embellishment. Personally, I think he sucks ass, but recognize him as a musician, as do the hordes of fans who pay $80 a ticket to see him live.


ok i stand corrected and defeated...

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:12 pm 
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hawker84 wrote:
how am i picking and choosing anything...

if you don't play an instrument, you're not a musician in my opinion.. how has my view changed on this....

and no a computer is not an instrument, it's a recording device among other things.. if i was to take my computer to the geek squad and have them wipe the memory clean.. could i then take it home, plug it in and create music? i can on my bass...


Remove the strings from your bass. Can you still create music?

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:12 pm 
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hawker84 wrote:
how am i picking and choosing anything...

if you don't play an instrument, you're not a musician in my opinion.. how has my view changed on this....

and no a computer is not an instrument, it's a recording device among other things.. if i was to take my computer to the geek squad and have them wipe the memory clean.. could i then take it home, plug it in and create music? i can on my bass...


So garbage can lid = instrument but computer =/= instrument?

And your geek squad example is absolutely silly. For one, I could take the tower and bang it against the monitor to make music, just like you can do with a garbage can lid. So, by your own example, a computer is indeed an instrument.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:13 pm 
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Yeah, you're right man. How could I have been such a fool?



don't know it happens.

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Last edited by hawker84 on Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:13 pm 
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hawker84 wrote:
how am i picking and choosing anything...

if you don't play an instrument, you're not a musician in my opinion.. how has my view changed on this....

and no a computer is not an instrument, it's a recording device among other things.. if i was to take my computer to the geek squad and have them wipe the memory clean.. could i then take it home, plug it in and create music? i can on my bass...


Again, you've decided to ignore the fact that computers can be transformed into powerful synthesizers (which you can play live, meeting your "must be played live" criteria), simply by the addition of a MIDI controller and a good software suite like FL Studio.

As far as your geek squad analogy is concerned, what a crock. Cut the strings off your bass (akin to removing the music software from a PC) and tell me how well she plays.

:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:14 pm 
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reaching but i see your point absolut

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:15 pm 
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smh, I really think its just plain ignorance at this point, and he's not willing to open his mind to the possibilities.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:15 pm 
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i didn't say gut the computer i said erase it's memory.. my bass doesn't have memory.. it's memory is in my head

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:16 pm 
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SmokinHawk wrote:
It's simply too formulaic for contemporary rock music, and I honestly can't remember the last good, new song I heard with a I-IV-V progression.



Curious as to what contemporary rock songs you consider good.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
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hawker84 wrote:
I IV V is a blues progression, which rock n roll was formed... well before the 60's


Prior to the 60s, the I-IV-V progression was only a staple of blues and country music. It began to creep in during the bubblegum era of the 50s, and became the mainstay in the 60s. So yes, the ubiquitous blues progression has been around since the 1920s or thereabouts, but it did not permeate the entire music industry until the 60s or so.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:17 pm 
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hawker84 wrote:
i didn't say gut the computer i said erase it's memory.. my bass doesn't have memory.. it's memory is in my head


So without strings, you can still play music on your bass?

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
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Sorry i'm just stuck in my ways on this...

i acknowldege hip hop , electronic, and whatever other styles as legit music.. i appreciate it for what it is, i appreciate the creativity and dedication that goes into creating it...

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:19 pm 
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what does the strings on my bass have to do with memory.. me bass doesn't have a brain, it's just a piece of wood and metal.
unlike a computer...

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:20 pm 
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What does computer memory have to do with anything? Just because you aren't recording yourself at a given moment doesn't mean you aren't creating music?

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
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hawker84 wrote:
what does the strings on my bass have to do with memory.. me bass doesn't have a brain, it's just a piece of wood and metal.
unlike a computer...


Ah, so your series of components carefully assembled to facilitate the making of music is an instrument, but somebody else's isn't because it doesn't fit the "ways" that you're stuck in. Got it. Carry on then.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
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Face it, zeb, you're a mouse clicking, pad tapping hipster :les:

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
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Throwdown wrote:
Face it, zeb, you're a mouse clicking, pad tapping hipster :les:


And I'm not a musician! Which is why I tried to stay out of this thread originally. I'm a studio engineer. I help people make their music. It's my job, and I think it's funny that these out of touch blowhards think they can tell me what is or isn't music.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:34 pm 
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AbsolutNET wrote:
What does computer memory have to do with anything? Just because you aren't recording yourself at a given moment doesn't mean you aren't creating music?


you see we're not communicating...i agree with your post.

if you are recording the music yourself then yes you're a musician.. if your taking someone elses recorded tracks and using them to create a body of music for yourself, you are not.. you composed the body of music, you didn't create it the actual notes and chords....

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 1:36 pm 
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AbsolutNET wrote:
What does computer memory have to do with anything? Just because you aren't recording yourself at a given moment doesn't mean you aren't creating music?


true... there's sometimes a difference between creating music and being a musician.. i agree

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
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Zebulon Dak wrote:
Throwdown wrote:
Face it, zeb, you're a mouse clicking, pad tapping hipster :les:


And I'm not a musician! Which is why I tried to stay out of this thread originally. I'm a studio engineer. I help people make their music. It's my job, and I think it's funny that these out of touch blowhards think they can tell me what is or isn't music.


Well then im gonna start rapping, hit you up n then act hollywood the whole session. Make sure my cookies n apple juice is ready.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
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Throwdown wrote:
Zebulon Dak wrote:
Throwdown wrote:
Face it, zeb, you're a mouse clicking, pad tapping hipster :les:


And I'm not a musician! Which is why I tried to stay out of this thread originally. I'm a studio engineer. I help people make their music. It's my job, and I think it's funny that these out of touch blowhards think they can tell me what is or isn't music.


Well then im gonna start rapping, hit you up n then act hollywood the whole session. Make sure my cookies n apple juice is ready.


Yes sir.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
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Zebulon Dak wrote:

I'm an engineer.


Can we see your caboose?

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
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Largent80 wrote:
Zebulon Dak wrote:

I'm an engineer.


Can we see your caboose?


I mean, I'm not gonna send photos.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
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:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:05 pm 
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I just farted on a snare drum while banging on a trash can lid with my tower and i didnt use any samples so now im a musician guys! Yayyy I've wanted this for so long

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:07 pm 
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video, or it didn't happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:08 pm 
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i've jammed with worse drummers so ya...

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:11 pm 
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SUCK IT hip hop......pick up a guitar, friggin hacks. Try putting this much SOUL into a computer, douchnozzle blow hards. You forgot about that huh? Can't synthesize emotion mo fo's....hahahahaha


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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:34 pm 
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Steve Vai's amazing.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:38 pm 
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Yeah?...try some Satch...who taught Vai.


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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:48 pm 
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Whew, sorry I just am passionate about actually playing. I respect all forms of artistry even though I do not care for some of it.

Thank you, and good night, please tip your waitress.

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 Post subject: Re: Musicians in the house?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:58 pm 
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To be fair, here is Satch with canned (computer) rythym.......he is amazing


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