'Seattle is Dying'

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'Seattle is Dying'
Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:05 pm
  • Perhaps I missed it but I haven't seen the KOMO expose discussed here. I assume because the mods think it's political?

    I'm not interested in the politics behind the problem. As an out-of-towner I'm more curious whether the report is an accurate portrayal of the situation or hyperbolic? I haven't been back to Seattle in almost 8 years but I loved almost everything I saw in my visits there and want to return soon. If this doc is true then it's a damn shame.

    For those that haven't seen it: https://komonews.com/news/local/komo-ne ... e-is-dying
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:08 pm
  • Yeah, we did this one a month or so ago. It went OK for a while, but got political, of course.
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:56 pm
  • Let's just say I never go to Seattle anymore except on Seahawks gameday.

    A damn shame.
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:04 pm
  • It was discussed in the Shack, if I recall.
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:39 am
  • Aros wrote:Let's just say I never go to Seattle anymore except on Seahawks gameday.

    A damn shame.


    Then I guess I'll assume the report was accurate. Tragic on so many levels.

    As a society we really need to rethink how we define compassion.
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:06 am
  • Here's the thread discussing this from a couple months ago if you're interested,
    viewtopic.php?f=23&t=153873

    Since I've already had this discussion I'll just leave my first post in that thread here.

    Chapow wrote:LOL, no. Seattle is most definitely not dying.

    Jobs outlook 2019: Seattle, state can expect ‘still-strong’ growth
    https://www.seattletimes.com/explore/ca ... the-party/

    Downtown Seattle saw record construction growth in 2018
    https://www.king5.com/article/news/loca ... 8c7caeafe4

    Rapid expansion slows, but global, U.S. and regional economies will continue to be strong in 2019
    https://www.seattlebusinessmag.com/gues ... c-forecast

    The Washington state economy has been outperforming the rest of the country for the past several years, but all good things must come to an end. That is not to say we will see growth contract. Rather, the rate of growth will likely slow, with employment growth dropping to around 2 percent in 2019 (from 2.6 percent last year).

    Locally, as Seattle-area technology companies continue to increase their payrolls, they will add a large number of indirect and induced jobs. I also expect to see significant employment growth in retail trade, professional and business services, and wholesale trade. As a result, I expect Seattle to fare somewhat better than the rest of the state, with a 2.6 percent increase in employment.


    114,000 more people: Seattle now decade’s fastest-growing big city in all of U.S.
    https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... ed-states/


    Seattle, just like every other big city, has some major problems, but I can't see how anyone could spend even 5 minutes looking into the current state of the city of Seattle and come to the conclusion that it's dying. Pretty much all indications are that it's thriving despite it's problems.

    What some of you guys are saying is that you don't like how it's changed. That's fine. But claiming that Seattle is dying or already has died is not just wrong, but egregiously wrong by any reasonable measure.
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:43 am
  • I don't look at the term dying to mean economically. I watched the program and to me the term has more to do with the city's inability to deal with the homeless/drug crisis to the point that folks can't even walk in the city anymore without threat of stepping on needles or feces or even getting attacked.

    It's the city's existential crisis of sorts. To me, it's about the inability to manage or cope with these socioeconomic dichotomies with no foreseeable solution to rectify them. That to me is what I think is meant by the city dying.
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:52 am
  • Aros wrote:I don't look at the term dying to mean economically. I watched the program and to me the term has more to do with the city's inability to deal with the homeless/drug crisis to the point that folks can't even walk in the city anymore without threat of stepping on needles or feces or even getting attacked.

    It's the city's existential crisis of sorts. To me, it's about the inability to manage or cope with these socioeconomic dichotomies with no foreseeable solution to rectify them. That to me is what I think is meant by the city dying.

    Agreed.

    And as successful as Seattle has been economically, that too is threatened if these social trends persist.

    Anyway, I'm an out of towner so I don't want to opine too much on your local issues. Seattle has contributed so much to the world: technologically, culturally, and fueling human productivity by way of caffeine. I hope you guys can find a solve.

    Oh and try to have it fixed before I fly out to a game at the Clink this year.
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:56 pm
  • Glad I moved away in 2008. It's really spiraled down. Hate to see it, it was my home area for 31 years.
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:07 pm
  • It lost it's home base, now everyone is a import or re located person, no sense of northwest culture. The Divisive aspect of Seattle has never been greater, each neighborhood tooting their own horn. Politicians wanting to isolate the city, not wanting people to commute but move there and shop there, they want a live in community. Trying stop cars going in all together. All the new high rises with apartments or condos being built also to accommodate this.

    May sound good now, expensive housing and prices for the tech workers to buy and spend their money on. But every season passes and at some point move on. Then what? Amazon and Microsoft and others have threatened to leave the state several time because of the cost of doing business here. If at some point they do leave that leaves a gapping hole in the planning of the city as well.

    The Unique shops and eatery's that used to be a part of Seattle are also being forced to close up shop due to the re invention of downtown and demolition of where they have their business's. They can't afford what the new location will ask and or survive as long as they would be closed anyway. That's a loss of the Culture that made Seattle so fun and inviting to go visit. Now all there will be is up trend places that will cater to the new move ins.
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:03 pm
  • You guys are just mad The Lusty Lady closed down. :P

    Image
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:27 pm
  • It was dead before I left 12 years ago. So now, it's what ?...Buried..... Sorry Seattle, you frigged it up.
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:13 pm
  • Ah yes, the Lusty Lady. Good times.
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:46 pm
  • Seattle's not dying, we've just done a poor job of looking out for people along the way.
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:29 pm
  • Plenty to say on this topic, but most of it requires a PWR.

    Glad I moved out of the PNW, though. Much of what's wrong with Seattle is also in a lot of other parts of the PNW outside the Seattle city limits, and it's only spreading.

    Also...Seattle is not a victim of homelessness; it's the cause of it rapidly ballooning out of control the past several years.
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:42 pm
  • I think you went off on a tangent a little bit from what my points are in regards to Seattle causing its own problems, but I can't elaborate further.
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:01 am
  • Chapow wrote:You guys are just mad The Lusty Lady closed down. :P

    Image

    You’re dang right!
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:58 am
  • Sports Hernia wrote:
    Chapow wrote:You guys are just mad The Lusty Lady closed down. :P

    Image

    You’re dang right!



    We got kicked out of the Lusty in the 90's.

    We went there for one of my buddy's bachelor parties, and we thought it'd be funny for all 8 of us to pack one of their booths where the screen rolls up and the dancer dances for you behind the glass.

    The screen rolls up and all eight of us are looking up at her laughing, she got all pissed and called security on her little stripper bat phone, and we got the boot.
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:18 pm
  • If the Lusty Lady is the holy grail, then it's worse than predicted. Although y'all forgot the Pussycat Theater. (where you left dead babies on the floor).
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:10 am
  • Thunderhawk wrote:Perhaps I missed it but I haven't seen the KOMO expose discussed here. I assume because the mods think it's political?

    I'm not interested in the politics behind the problem. As an out-of-towner I'm more curious whether the report is an accurate portrayal of the situation or hyperbolic? I haven't been back to Seattle in almost 8 years but I loved almost everything I saw in my visits there and want to return soon. If this doc is true then it's a damn shame.

    For those that haven't seen it: https://komonews.com/news/local/komo-ne ... e-is-dying


    I work downtown, every day. I walk through the city everyday going to various bus stops to commute out.(I can use different routes).

    The things I see now versus say 99' - to early 2000's, honestly it's shocking. I've seen people defecating on the sidewalks, see people with needle's in their arms, with blood pouring down(this is common), seen fights, attacks. It's awful.

    My grandparents grew up here, my mom, my kid was born here, and we're raising him here.... so it breaks my heart to see this. I have a love/hate relationship with this city and it just sucks to know that in the near future we will be moving. Living here (for us) is unsustainable. I literally hate, despise, and cringe every day when I have to come downtown for work.

    And without getting political, I'll just say I don't understand how we just let all this happen, and are continuing to keep this hands off, not get involved attitude to whats happening on the streets(the doc does a pretty good job of exploring this). We're just being this passive observer and watching our city deteriorate into some future Detroit from RoboCop. So yea, that documentary seemed pretty right on the money for me.
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:23 am
  • You pretty much encapsulate the reality of the situation Twisted. It's horrifying. I simply will not go to downtown anymore for social fun. It's park at China Town, walk to Temple or a surrounding prefunk bar, on to Century Link and straight to my car parked in China Town after the game. That's my extent of the city anymore.
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:42 am
  • I don't blame you, at all. I get it.

    The other day, I saw this older couple, late 60's, early 70's maybe, walking down 3rd, near Pioneer square. This vagrant was following them, screaming at them, like scary unhinged screaming, just harassing them, ugly scene. Now I'm across the street watching. And I'm on the fence about running across the street like Frogger (some of you may know what 3rd looks like at rush hour). I'm just waiting to see if it gets physical. If he even touches one, or pick your awful scenario, that crack head is going down hard. But luckily he backed off, and they continued on their way, I'm sure to never visit Seattle again.
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:31 pm
  • How much traveling have you guys done outside of the country? I've been lucky to visit a wide range of places like Indonesia and Honduras; Seattle looks like a gated community compared to some of those places. We definitely have a problem, but I don't think the problem is inherent to Seattle.
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:03 pm
  • Haven't really watched the documentary, but I know Seattle. It is what it is.

    I will just say this. As someone who hung out around the rougher areas of Seattle, particularly areas with lots of minorities, these areas of Seattle have been dying for a long time. It's only now that everyone cares because they are happening to nicer areas like Pioneer Square and downtown. Areas like Seatac, Rainier Beach, Skyway have been "dying" for decades, but nobody cared. It happens in Pinoeer Square and everyone cares. So to me, it doesn't bother me, because where I hung around, it's always been like this. But once it happens to the nicer areas, people care, which is totally understandable.

    I think one of the bigger isues in this city is the awful gentrification. I went to Garfield HS in the central disrict, and that place looks nothing like it did back then. Personally, I prefer to crackheads and homeless over the new hipsters with no culture.
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:25 pm
  • knownone wrote:How much traveling have you guys done outside of the country? I've been lucky to visit a wide range of places like Indonesia and Honduras; Seattle looks like a gated community compared to some of those places. We definitely have a problem, but I don't think the problem is inherent to Seattle.


    I'm pretty widely traveled. I've been to well over a couple dozen countries everywhere but South America. I've lived in both Europe and Asia as well as throughout the U.S.

    Of course everywhere has its problems, and some areas are worse than others. I've seen downtown Seattle a few years ago, and it sounds like it's a whole lot worse than I remember it. Under those conditions, I'd rank it rather low among the places I'd feel absolutely safe.

    Take Cebu City, for example. A city of a couple of million people in a third world country. I lived there for most of the last three years, so I'd consider myself as much a "local" there as anywhere at the moment. There are definitely areas, such as Colon, that you don't really want to go after dark, and even in the daylight are kind of skeezy. But it's not terrible. You don't feel absolutely unsafe there. I've been there many, many times. Anywhere you go there in Colon, you're at high risk of petty crime: pick-pocketing, scams, petty thievery, cons, that sort of thing. Beggars, prostitutes, and panhandlers are commonplace. Garbage and litter everywhere. Pollution would shock most Americans. But you're not in any real danger of major crime: muggings, robbery, rape, murder, etc., although they do occur in rare instances. Drug use is fairly obvious there, but it's not needles and the like, and you don't feel in danger from the addicts; you just see them sitting on the sides of the streets or ambling around.

    But that's the areas of the city well known for that sort of thing: crime, sleezy after dark establishments, poverty, etc. And it's a major city in a third world country. And although I haven't been to Seattle in a few years, it seems like I'd feel safer in Colon, Cebu City than in Pioneer Square, Seattle after dark.

    And that's where the tragedy of it all lies. This is America. This is the greatest country on Earth. The Emerald City. Once the pride and joy of the Pacific Northwest. And to shrug it off by comparing it to everywhere else on Earth shows what a horrible decline it's in now. To compare it to cities in third world countries shows it's most definitely not what it should be.
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:43 pm
  • knownone wrote:How much traveling have you guys done outside of the country? I've been lucky to visit a wide range of places like Indonesia and Honduras; Seattle looks like a gated community compared to some of those places. We definitely have a problem, but I don't think the problem is inherent to Seattle.


    Yup, here's the real problem right here. "Well, compared to some of the absolutely worst shitholes in the entire world, Seattle is fairly average! You guys are expecting too much..." :roll:
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:50 pm
  • GeekHawk wrote:
    knownone wrote:How much traveling have you guys done outside of the country? I've been lucky to visit a wide range of places like Indonesia and Honduras; Seattle looks like a gated community compared to some of those places. We definitely have a problem, but I don't think the problem is inherent to Seattle.


    Yup, here's the real problem right here. "Well, compared to some of the absolutely worst shitholes in the entire world, Seattle is fairly average! You guys are expecting too much..." :roll:


    You all miss the point, we are not comparing it to the rest of the world or the rest of the country, we are talking about the degradation of a City that was considered most friendly and livable not that long ago. The sell out by the political to the developers, see the Sonics fiasco as an example and how they handled Chris Hansen and then went another direction.

    They have done it with the Mercer Mess and the Viaduct as well as some smaller projects.
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Re: 'Seattle is Dying'
Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:55 am
  • Seahawk Sailor wrote:
    knownone wrote:How much traveling have you guys done outside of the country? I've been lucky to visit a wide range of places like Indonesia and Honduras; Seattle looks like a gated community compared to some of those places. We definitely have a problem, but I don't think the problem is inherent to Seattle.


    I'm pretty widely traveled. I've been to well over a couple dozen countries everywhere but South America. I've lived in both Europe and Asia as well as throughout the U.S.

    Of course everywhere has its problems, and some areas are worse than others. I've seen downtown Seattle a few years ago, and it sounds like it's a whole lot worse than I remember it. Under those conditions, I'd rank it rather low among the places I'd feel absolutely safe.

    Take Cebu City, for example. A city of a couple of million people in a third world country. I lived there for most of the last three years, so I'd consider myself as much a "local" there as anywhere at the moment. There are definitely areas, such as Colon, that you don't really want to go after dark, and even in the daylight are kind of skeezy. But it's not terrible. You don't feel absolutely unsafe there. I've been there many, many times. Anywhere you go there in Colon, you're at high risk of petty crime: pick-pocketing, scams, petty thievery, cons, that sort of thing. Beggars, prostitutes, and panhandlers are commonplace. Garbage and litter everywhere. Pollution would shock most Americans. But you're not in any real danger of major crime: muggings, robbery, rape, murder, etc., although they do occur in rare instances. Drug use is fairly obvious there, but it's not needles and the like, and you don't feel in danger from the addicts; you just see them sitting on the sides of the streets or ambling around.

    But that's the areas of the city well known for that sort of thing: crime, sleezy after dark establishments, poverty, etc. And it's a major city in a third world country. And although I haven't been to Seattle in a few years, it seems like I'd feel safer in Colon, Cebu City than in Pioneer Square, Seattle after dark.

    And that's where the tragedy of it all lies. This is America. This is the greatest country on Earth. The Emerald City. Once the pride and joy of the Pacific Northwest. And to shrug it off by comparing it to everywhere else on Earth shows what a horrible decline it's in now. To compare it to cities in third world countries shows it's most definitely not what it should be.

    I'm not shrugging anything off. I have a pretty detailed opinion of Seattle's situation in the smack-shack variant of this thread. I was genuinely curious if those who were commenting have traveled and seen other places because I know (and you know) how eye opening that experience can be. I grew up in a some pretty rough neighborhoods, so I think my tolerance for a lot of these issues is different than most people in the Northwest which is where my curiosity stems from. I appreciate your perspective, it helps me get a better idea of how others view the situation.

    I spent about a year on/off in Jakarta. Downtown Jakarta is as nice as I ever remember Seattle being in the 20+ years I've lived in the area. They have laws that prevent the homeless from squatting in the city, but if you take a 5 or so minute drive just outside downtown the contrast between rich, poor, and homeless is pretty staggering. It's a very surreal experience. Indonesia is not a 3rd world country, it's one of the richest countries in the world, and DKI Jakarta in particular is by far the richest province in Indonesia.

    Jakarta (IMO) is a far more extreme representation of what Seattle is. Both economies on a local level are built on systems where stability is a function of wage stagnation, and growth only happens in assets. This is a great model for building a rich economy or supporting big businesses, but it's absolutely horrible for maintaining balance in the community as a whole.
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