Seahawks.NET AMAZON STOREFRONT

Upgrading to business internet....

The Lounge is for non-sport-related topics other than politics, war and religion. Order up your favorite beverage, kick back and enjoy the conversation! LANGUAGE RATING: PG-13
Upgrading to business internet....
Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:05 pm
  • So I live in Billings, Montana, and the fastest consumer internet you can get here is 60mb download, and 4mb upload, and that is through Spectrum/Charter. Pretty sad for the largest city in the state.

    It's fast enough for streaming TV, downloading, and most anything else. However, it is absolutely NOT fast enough for online gaming, which is one of my biggest hobbies. That's not entirely true...it's fast enough for online gaming 75% of the time. During non-peak times, I can play CounterStrike GO and have an MS time of about 40-50. That's very reasonable. I can connect to at least 30 different Battlefield 1 servers at around that same MS.

    BUT, during peak times (6pm - 10pm, which is when I do most of my gaming), I absolutely cannot game without an MS of 130-200. And it constantly spikes. It's done this in 3 different places I've lived, all with the service under a different name and with different modems/equipment. So, it's not me, and there's likely not a technical issue. Clearly, they are throttling everybody during these times because everyone goes home from work and starts binging out on Netflix every damn day. I've talked to other gamers and they just put up with it. Not this guy...I like to win, and I'm very competitive.

    So, rather than looking for a new state to live in, I decided to research to see if I can get a faster connection. Perhaps, a business connection? Well, turns out, the same company can offer me business internet @ 100mb and 7mb in the house I live in, even though I don't actually have a business. It sounds like it will absolutely be faster, and that my bandwidth would (hopefully) be prioritized during peak times.

    Does anyone have any experience with business internet? Should I expect better MS times when gaming during peak times? Is there anything else I can do to improve my connection when gaming? Has satellite internet improved enough to make that feasible? Is there any way to get 2 consumer connections and run them together like you can with 2 video cards? haha...I doubt it...but I'm asking anyway. I'm already hard-wired into everything, so wifi is definitely not the issue here.

    Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
    User avatar
    fenderbender123
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6176
    Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:47 pm


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:23 pm
  • Business coax is generally not sharing bandwidth with residential coax.. I use business coax for my backup internet connections at all of my branch locations mostly without issue, with 3 of those branches being Spectrum/Charter.
    User avatar
    Anguish
    * NET Co-Owner *
     
    Posts: 5078
    Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 4:00 pm
    Location: Battle Ground, WA


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:24 pm
  • fenderbender123 wrote:So I live in Billings, Montana, and the fastest consumer internet you can get here is 60mb download, and 4mb upload, and that is through Spectrum/Charter. Pretty sad for the largest city in the state.




    That is pretty sad, especially when, living in Alaska, our local cable company STARTS their internet packages at 50/3 and their top package being 1 Gbps/50 Mbps

    I've got no experience with satellite or business internet in the home, so I am not the one to help you there.
    Image

    “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

    :les: Check your PM's....We miss you :les:
    User avatar
    kidhawk
    * NET Moderator *
     
    Posts: 21891
    Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:00 pm
    Location: Anchorage, AK


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:41 pm
  • Anguish wrote:Business coax is generally not sharing bandwidth with residential coax.. I use business coax for my backup internet connections at all of my branch locations mostly without issue, with 3 of those branches being Spectrum/Charter.


    Good to know. Thanks!

    I've scheduled to have it installed on Friday. It's amazing how much faster they can schedule a guy to come install it when it's business instead of residential...
    User avatar
    fenderbender123
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6176
    Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:47 pm


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:43 pm
  • kidhawk wrote:
    fenderbender123 wrote:So I live in Billings, Montana, and the fastest consumer internet you can get here is 60mb download, and 4mb upload, and that is through Spectrum/Charter. Pretty sad for the largest city in the state.




    That is pretty sad, especially when, living in Alaska, our local cable company STARTS their internet packages at 50/3 and their top package being 1 Gbps/50 Mbps

    I've got no experience with satellite or business internet in the home, so I am not the one to help you there.


    I really don't understand it. How much is the 1 GBPs plan? Spectrum wants $160 a month for the 100mb/7mb plan I just scheduled to have installed.
    User avatar
    fenderbender123
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6176
    Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:47 pm


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:28 pm
  • fenderbender123 wrote:
    kidhawk wrote:
    fenderbender123 wrote:So I live in Billings, Montana, and the fastest consumer internet you can get here is 60mb download, and 4mb upload, and that is through Spectrum/Charter. Pretty sad for the largest city in the state.




    That is pretty sad, especially when, living in Alaska, our local cable company STARTS their internet packages at 50/3 and their top package being 1 Gbps/50 Mbps

    I've got no experience with satellite or business internet in the home, so I am not the one to help you there.


    I really don't understand it. How much is the 1 GBPs plan? Spectrum wants $160 a month for the 100mb/7mb plan I just scheduled to have installed.



    $174.95 for the fastest plan which includes 1 TB data....I consider that a bit high, but we don't have a lot of competition up here, especially at that speed.
    Image

    “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

    :les: Check your PM's....We miss you :les:
    User avatar
    kidhawk
    * NET Moderator *
     
    Posts: 21891
    Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:00 pm
    Location: Anchorage, AK


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:56 pm
  • I am currently employed as a network architect for a major research university, so when it comes to all things network or Internet related, I am something of an expert.

    It is unlikely that your performance degredation during peak hours is in any way related to how much bandwidth you are being allocated. In general, bandwidth plays a pretty diminished role in the end-to-end latency of a given transmission (or "flow" in our lingo) in that it is tied to the number of times in a given second that data can be encoded and placed on to the wire. Even at low speeds, this is tens of thousands of time slices per second, so the latency induced at your cable modem, for example, is going to be less than a millisecond.

    I am willing to bet the performance issues have far more to do with the general saturation of your ISP's network, specifically at their local cable head ends, the links which backhaul data to the regional point of presence, or the long-haul links which either connect the POP to other POPs (most likely), or hand-off directly to tier-1 ISPs (unlikely to be the case in Billings).

    As you stated, when people get home from work they turn on the Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Video, etc, and this eats up TONS of bandwidth when it's all added up. In order to more evenly distribute the bandwidth between subscribers, ISPs implement queuing mechanisms to buffer as much data as is possible while waiting for a transmission window to open. Queuing directly contributes to latency. While your average Netflix user will remain blithely unaware of it happening, applications necessitating realtime forwarding of packets, such as gaming or VoIP, will perform poorly as a result.

    Further contributing to your performance woes is the fact that Billings generally has just two directions in which to send data - West towards Spokane/Seattle, or Southeast towards Denver. It is quite likely that your ISP does not have an Internet hand-off in Spokane, so traffic heading West is most likely transported all the way to Seattle or maybe Portland or even San Francisco. Denver is likely to be your best bet for nearly all of your traffic, but that is also true of every other customer of your ISP. I can say with some measure of certainty that the leg to Denver is what carries almost all of the streaming video traffic, and when that leg gets congested, your latency surges.

    Will upgrading to a business class service help? It may, but don't hold your breath. I would suggest speaking to a customer service rep and support engineer about the engineering of the business service, to determine whether those services are given priority in the quality-of-service queues, or if you will be shit out of luck.

    As a desperation tactic, see if there is some way you can manipulate the "DSCP bits" to a decimal value of 46. That is the value assigned to VoIP traffic and when a network is built to prioritize VoIP, it will forward packets marked with DSCP 46 before anything else.

    Good luck.
    Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro

    He is hold back the legion of boom - skater18000
    User avatar
    SmokinHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6298
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:29 am
    Location: Back in Seattle


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:56 pm
  • kidhawk wrote:
    fenderbender123 wrote:
    kidhawk wrote:
    fenderbender123 wrote:So I live in Billings, Montana, and the fastest consumer internet you can get here is 60mb download, and 4mb upload, and that is through Spectrum/Charter. Pretty sad for the largest city in the state.




    That is pretty sad, especially when, living in Alaska, our local cable company STARTS their internet packages at 50/3 and their top package being 1 Gbps/50 Mbps

    I've got no experience with satellite or business internet in the home, so I am not the one to help you there.


    I really don't understand it. How much is the 1 GBPs plan? Spectrum wants $160 a month for the 100mb/7mb plan I just scheduled to have installed.



    $174.95 for the fastest plan which includes 1 TB data....I consider that a bit high, but we don't have a lot of competition up here, especially at that speed.


    Geeze...I feel like I'm getting taken to the toolshed....we have no competition here. Century Link is the only thing close to Charter's speeds, and the fastest they have is 20mb and their consumer reviews are much less favorable than Charter.

    It's beginning to make sense. Everyone has Charter consumer internet in Billings...that's why peak times are so awful. I wonder if CLink might even be faster if less people are using it....
    User avatar
    fenderbender123
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6176
    Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:47 pm


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:59 pm
  • Regarding satellite, don't even bother. Most services cost an arm and a leg and have rather high rates of packet loss (roughly 5 to 10 percent). Further, the best satellite technology in existence, which is low earth orbit, is a bare minimum of 120-130ms just to bounce from end station to satellite to base station. Most satellites are geosynchronous orbit, which is at least 700ms round-trip time.
    Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro

    He is hold back the legion of boom - skater18000
    User avatar
    SmokinHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6298
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:29 am
    Location: Back in Seattle


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:14 pm
  • Anguish wrote:Business coax is generally not sharing bandwidth with residential coax.. I use business coax for my backup internet connections at all of my branch locations mostly without issue, with 3 of those branches being Spectrum/Charter.


    Perhaps not at the local head-end, but beyond that, it is most likely running on shared infrastructure. It's too expensive to build a completely separate network just to deliver a higher quality Internet service.
    Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro

    He is hold back the legion of boom - skater18000
    User avatar
    SmokinHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6298
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:29 am
    Location: Back in Seattle


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:53 pm
  • SmokinHawk wrote:I am currently employed as a network architect for a major research university, so when it comes to all things network or Internet related, I am something of an expert.

    It is unlikely that your performance degredation during peak hours is in any way related to how much bandwidth you are being allocated. In general, bandwidth plays a pretty diminished role in the end-to-end latency of a given transmission (or "flow" in our lingo) in that it is tied to the number of times in a given second that data can be encoded and placed on to the wire. Even at low speeds, this is tens of thousands of time slices per second, so the latency induced at your cable modem, for example, is going to be less than a millisecond.

    I am willing to bet the performance issues have far more to do with the general saturation of your ISP's network, specifically at their local cable head ends, the links which backhaul data to the regional point of presence, or the long-haul links which either connect the POP to other POPs (most likely), or hand-off directly to tier-1 ISPs (unlikely to be the case in Billings).

    As you stated, when people get home from work they turn on the Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Video, etc, and this eats up TONS of bandwidth when it's all added up. In order to more evenly distribute the bandwidth between subscribers, ISPs implement queuing mechanisms to buffer as much data as is possible while waiting for a transmission window to open. Queuing directly contributes to latency. While your average Netflix user will remain blithely unaware of it happening, applications necessitating realtime forwarding of packets, such as gaming or VoIP, will perform poorly as a result.

    Further contributing to your performance woes is the fact that Billings generally has just two directions in which to send data - West towards Spokane/Seattle, or Southeast towards Denver. It is quite likely that your ISP does not have an Internet hand-off in Spokane, so traffic heading West is most likely transported all the way to Seattle or maybe Portland or even San Francisco. Denver is likely to be your best bet for nearly all of your traffic, but that is also true of every other customer of your ISP. I can say with some measure of certainty that the leg to Denver is what carries almost all of the streaming video traffic, and when that leg gets congested, your latency surges.

    Will upgrading to a business class service help? It may, but don't hold your breath. I would suggest speaking to a customer service rep and support engineer about the engineering of the business service, to determine whether those services are given priority in the quality-of-service queues, or if you will be shit out of luck.

    As a desperation tactic, see if there is some way you can manipulate the "DSCP bits" to a decimal value of 46. That is the value assigned to VoIP traffic and when a network is built to prioritize VoIP, it will forward packets marked with DSCP 46 before anything else.

    Good luck.


    I understand this. Too bad he can not install a backbone of his own. Or a T1. That would mess up the system tho.

    I am on Verizon and they trail me to Denver thru my broadband card. I am in the Boise area.

    Not sure what my buddy's sattelite service locates him at, but he is again in our area remoted. Another service gets dropped like an egg on asphalt all the time. So that is out for them. Just to let you know, you aint the only one to the OP.
    R.I.P. Queen.
    User avatar
    Seahawkfan80
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 7210
    Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:20 pm
    Location: A little ways from Boise.


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:50 pm
  • If the money's not a problem for you, then do it. The fringe benefits (support that doesn't completely suck, an actual SLA they will abide by or at least compensate you if they break it, better quality of service even at the same speeds, etc.) are nice. You can even host your own server and not have things like outbound SMTP (sending email if you care to setup your own email server, which I doubt you will) blocked.
    Image
    "VICTORYYYYYYY!" -Johnny Drama
    User avatar
    RolandDeschain
    *NET FCC Liaison*
     
    Posts: 30957
    Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 8:39 am
    Location: Bothell, WA


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:57 pm
  • does bandwidth really have anything to do with gaming? Not a nerd or anything, but isn't more about Ping and packet loss?

    I could be stuck in the 90's quake scene though..
    NoChops
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1592
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:21 pm


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:24 pm
  • NoChops wrote:does bandwidth really have anything to do with gaming? Not a nerd or anything, but isn't more about Ping and packet loss?

    I could be stuck in the 90's quake scene though..

    Yeah, it's all about latency. (Ping/reaction time.)

    You should never have any appreciable packet loss even on mediocre home service, though.
    Image
    "VICTORYYYYYYY!" -Johnny Drama
    User avatar
    RolandDeschain
    *NET FCC Liaison*
     
    Posts: 30957
    Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 8:39 am
    Location: Bothell, WA


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:07 pm
  • Hmmm...well I'm gonna find out if this is any better. If it's not, I'm not locked into any commitment...and I'm only out 200. Maybe I'll just start calling them and complaining that I'm getting too much packet loss and tell them to fix it.
    User avatar
    fenderbender123
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6176
    Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:47 pm


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:09 pm
  • NoChops wrote:does bandwidth really have anything to do with gaming? Not a nerd or anything, but isn't more about Ping and packet loss?

    I could be stuck in the 90's quake scene though..


    Bandwidth is a factor, but it's just the size of the pipe. Most games don't generate large traffic loads. For most games, the latency between client and server is what assures a smooth gaming experience.

    One thing to consider is where the game server is hosted, and on what hardware. Many game hosting providers grossly oversubscribe their hardware or underprovision their virtual machines with too little CPU or memory.

    The speed of light only seems fast until you start seeing its limitations first-hand. It takes roughly 65ms for a beam of light to travel from Seattle to Washington DC and back. Then you need to add in all the latency that arises from buffering at each switch or router in the signal path. Finally, the server and game application contribute hugely to the latency equation.
    Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro

    He is hold back the legion of boom - skater18000
    User avatar
    SmokinHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6298
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:29 am
    Location: Back in Seattle


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:34 pm
  • Used to be called Quality of Service and TCP/IP always had that latency problem and will always in the future, it's just the nature of the protocol. Bigger band width helps a lot but still will throttle data down during heavy loads. As I remember there was another protocol tried, but with Tcp/ip so prevalent, it never came out to much as it was to expensive.. etc etc.
    User avatar
    Bobblehead
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1932
    Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:52 am


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:41 am
  • Bobblehead wrote:Used to be called Quality of Service and TCP/IP always had that latency problem and will always in the future, it's just the nature of the protocol. Bigger band width helps a lot but still will throttle data down during heavy loads. As I remember there was another protocol tried, but with Tcp/ip so prevalent, it never came out to much as it was to expensive.. etc etc.


    The "latency problem" is not a function of TCP/IP. It is purely a function of distance and the delay involved in forwarding a packet. The speed of light in a vacuum is roughly 186,000 miles per second, but in glass it is approximately 2/3rds of that.

    The Internet has *always* used TCP/IP (the "IP" stands for "Internet protocol"). Right now, there are two versions in use. Most common is IPv4, which comprises a vast majority of all Internet traffic, but IPv6 adoption is gaining ground despite being saddled with some considerable technical limitations. It will probably be 15-20 more years before it's fully supplanted IPv4, though.

    Changing protocols on the Internet has nothing to do with cost. It's just ridiculously challenging to uproot an entrenched standard that has been in place, largely unchanged since 1981.
    Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro

    He is hold back the legion of boom - skater18000
    User avatar
    SmokinHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6298
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:29 am
    Location: Back in Seattle


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:21 am
  • Years ago.. in the 90's, when bandwidth was but a fraction of what it is now, there was a big issue with QOS. Larger bandwidth has mostly taken care of that now, but back in the days of 10 base T, speed was erratic. Streaming video was problematic as you would get video, then lag, and all that hasn't changed, it's just we have great band width and do a better job of buffering video and live feed.

    But you are right, latency is not a function of IP it's a by product that happens when data packets share and travel across the same lines. Data packets are not continuous, so some will arrive faster than others. Of course with faster equipment, faster lines, it's all but a side note, but still, when a lot of people share a line, ask Cable people, it gets erratic.
    User avatar
    Bobblehead
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1932
    Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:52 am


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:24 am
  • Linus from Linus Tech Tips just did a video a bit ago about bonded internet. Which he essentially referred to as SLI for your routers. I remember it coming in cheaper than business when I looked into it, but still too much for my pockets. Worth looking into. Sorry I don't have more info on it. But here's the vid.

    [youtube]youtu.be/tqbnjgbtDl0[youtube]
    Image
    User avatar
    City Of Reign
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 383
    Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:09 pm


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:15 am
  • Bobblehead wrote:Years ago.. in the 90's, when bandwidth was but a fraction of what it is now, there was a big issue with QOS. Larger bandwidth has mostly taken care of that now, but back in the days of 10 base T, speed was erratic. Streaming video was problematic as you would get video, then lag, and all that hasn't changed, it's just we have great band width and do a better job of buffering video and live feed.

    But you are right, latency is not a function of IP it's a by product that happens when data packets share and travel across the same lines. Data packets are not continuous, so some will arrive faster than others. Of course with faster equipment, faster lines, it's all but a side note, but still, when a lot of people share a line, ask Cable people, it gets erratic.


    QoS ceases being a "thing" once your packets leave the network of your ISP. This is because there exists no standard for how to apply QoS across the Internet - it's a decision made at the organizational level, in a fashion that best suits the business interests of the organization. Generally speaking, traffic that hits the open Internet is treated as inherently "best efforts only", where there are no guarantees that packets will be forwarded on to the end destination with any degree of expedience. In practice, though, "best efforts only" gets the job done the vast majority of the time, particularly for traffic flows which don't necessitate realtime transmission.

    QoS policies are still commonly implemented to this day. In fact, I had to devise a policy for one my employer's remote offices such that the VoIP traffic would be given top priority across the WAN, even when the links were running at full capacity. It's still used, but it can't be deployed at Internet scale because it would require that every ISP and every corporation, every government, every university, school district, etc, to agree on a standard then follow it up with implementation. It's just a totally infeasible concept at Internet scale.

    Generally speaking, packets need to arrive in the same order in which they were initially put on the wire. While some equipment is capable of multipath forwarding (using multiple links to reach the same end destination) on a per-packet basis, the de-facto standard is to distribute the traffic on a per-flow basis, where every unique combination of source IP, source port, destination IP, destination port, and time-to-live (called a five-tuple) is hashed together to determine which link gets the flow. This is because the TCP protocol in particular is sensitive to out-of-order packets, but UDP-based flows like VoIP technologies are similarly sensitive to it as well. In many cases, out of order packets are discarded, necessitating a retransmission, which slows down the flow of your data due to the "window scaling" function of TCP.

    If the same physical pathway is taken from point A to point B, it will always take the same amount of time for the data to physically propagate down the wire. There will always be some deviation in forwarding delay due to buffering, queuing, egress circuit utilization, and this deviation is known as "jitter". Unless links are very congested (running hotter than 50-80% continuous utilization), induced jitter should be pretty minimal. If you see large standard deviation in ping response, it's very possibly caused by ICMP echo packets being given a low priority both in transit, and at the receiving host. Pings are given a low priority in processing because they can be a significant attack vector when issued in large volumes.
    Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro

    He is hold back the legion of boom - skater18000
    User avatar
    SmokinHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6298
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:29 am
    Location: Back in Seattle


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:18 am
  • City Of Reign wrote:Linus from Linus Tech Tips just did a video a bit ago about bonded internet. Which he essentially referred to as SLI for your routers. I remember it coming in cheaper than business when I looked into it, but still too much for my pockets. Worth looking into. Sorry I don't have more info on it. But here's the vid.

    [youtube]youtu.be/tqbnjgbtDl0[youtube]


    It definitely wouldn't help his gaming performance any. In a bonded configuration, a single flow will traverse just one link. There's no way to effectively split it between the two because on the outside interface(s) of your router(s), you have two different IP addresses - one for each ISP. You would also be at the mercy of the random number generator, on which link was used for a given flow as it's based on the five-tuple value stated in my previous post.
    Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro

    He is hold back the legion of boom - skater18000
    User avatar
    SmokinHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6298
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:29 am
    Location: Back in Seattle


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:32 am
  • SmokinHawk wrote:
    City Of Reign wrote:Linus from Linus Tech Tips just did a video a bit ago about bonded internet. Which he essentially referred to as SLI for your routers. I remember it coming in cheaper than business when I looked into it, but still too much for my pockets. Worth looking into. Sorry I don't have more info on it. But here's the vid.

    [youtube]youtu.be/tqbnjgbtDl0[youtube]


    It definitely wouldn't help his gaming performance any. In a bonded configuration, a single flow will traverse just one link. There's no way to effectively split it between the two because on the outside interface(s) of your router(s), you have two different IP addresses - one for each ISP. You would also be at the mercy of the random number generator, on which link was used for a given flow as it's based on the five-tuple value stated in my previous post.


    In the video, he states that he thought that might be a big issue but saw very minimal latency issues. Again, I don't know much about this stuff, I just thought it'd be a good thing to look into atleast. I wish him the best of either way.
    Image
    User avatar
    City Of Reign
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 383
    Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:09 pm


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:50 am
  • CenturyLink has put in a lot of fiber for residential areas in Montana. I would go on their website and see if it is available for you. Their bandwidth isn't much less but the uploads are higher and better performance.
    OlyHawkFan
    NET Practice Squad
     
    Posts: 82
    Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 10:29 am


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:18 am
  • With exception given to their nearly nonexistant 1-gig vaporware plans, CenturyLink's residential "fiber" service is anything but that. It's an FTTN service, or "fiber to the neighborhood", where C-Link lands a fiber circuit on the neighborhood DSLAM, but delivers service using the same crappy copper lines that have been in use for eons. I learned this the hard way a few years back. They are basically just churching up ADSL2 service, which is generally a bad performer for gaming due to higher serialization and forwarding delays that occur within the customer premises equipment (often referred to, incorrectly, as a "modem").

    If everyone is using Charter for Internet, CenturyLink *may* perform better for games as bandwidth is less of a concern than network congestion, but it is guaranteed to have higher average latency due to the flaws inherent to using a nearly 30 year old technology (DSL).
    Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro

    He is hold back the legion of boom - skater18000
    User avatar
    SmokinHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6298
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:29 am
    Location: Back in Seattle


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:24 pm
  • SmokinHawk wrote:The Internet has *always* used TCP/IP (the "IP" stands for "Internet protocol").

    Real men have gone to a website over IPX/SPX.
    Image
    "VICTORYYYYYYY!" -Johnny Drama
    User avatar
    RolandDeschain
    *NET FCC Liaison*
     
    Posts: 30957
    Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 8:39 am
    Location: Bothell, WA


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:26 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    SmokinHawk wrote:The Internet has *always* used TCP/IP (the "IP" stands for "Internet protocol").

    Real men have gone to a website over IPX/SPX.


    Mannnnn, back in my day we used to tunnel our IPX/SPX inside TCP/IP, over a 56k modem (connected at 31200 if you were lucky), just to play some laggy ass Doom or Command & Conquer.

    Was it Novell Netware that had the IP-over-IPX tunneling functionality? Can't remember, getting old.
    Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro

    He is hold back the legion of boom - skater18000
    User avatar
    SmokinHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6298
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:29 am
    Location: Back in Seattle


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:05 pm
  • SmokinHawk wrote:Was it Novell Netware that had the IP-over-IPX tunneling functionality? Can't remember, getting old.

    NetBEUI 4 life, dawg. :lol:
    Image
    "VICTORYYYYYYY!" -Johnny Drama
    User avatar
    RolandDeschain
    *NET FCC Liaison*
     
    Posts: 30957
    Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 8:39 am
    Location: Bothell, WA


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:27 am
  • SmokinHawk wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:
    SmokinHawk wrote:The Internet has *always* used TCP/IP (the "IP" stands for "Internet protocol").

    Real men have gone to a website over IPX/SPX.


    Mannnnn, back in my day we used to tunnel our IPX/SPX inside TCP/IP, over a 56k modem (connected at 31200 if you were lucky), just to play some laggy ass Doom or Command & Conquer.

    Was it Novell Netware that had the IP-over-IPX tunneling functionality? Can't remember, getting old.


    Considering my start came during my early years at Intel, we were running Banyan Vines, and therefore VIP/SPP internally but native TCP/IP on our external connections. This soon gave way to IPX to IP gateways and NetBT for our Intel specific builds of WindowsNT and IntraNetware which was internally antithetically named Win-Win. Horrible times.

    With these piece of shit network operating systems combined with cc:Mail, $6,000 Toshiba Portege laptops and dial-up VPNs. It's no wonder I started going grey early.
    User avatar
    Anguish
    * NET Co-Owner *
     
    Posts: 5078
    Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 4:00 pm
    Location: Battle Ground, WA


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:37 pm
  • Anyway we can get a nerd forum around here?
    “A society that gets rid of all its troublemakers goes downhill.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein
    User avatar
    DTexHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5232
    Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 5:55 am


Re: Upgrading to business internet....
Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:37 pm
  • I don't really know what you guys are talking about, but I remember connecting to websites with DOS back in like 1990. I think websites were called billboards or something back then. We had a 4k modem, and often times spent most of the night trying to connect.

    Anyway, the new internet is great. Not a huge improvement, but overall everything is more playable.
    User avatar
    fenderbender123
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6176
    Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:47 pm




It is currently Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:52 pm

Please REGISTER to become a member

Return to [ THE .NET LOUNGE ]




Information
  • Who is online
  • Users browsing this forum: HAWKAMANIA and 24 guests