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 Post subject: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:52 am 
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http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/235440371.html

Injury risk guy but good player/hitter?

"Hart, 31, missed all of the 2013 season with a right knee injury. In 2012, the two-time All-Star hit .270/.334/.507 with 35 doubles, 30 homers and 83 RBI." Cbs sports..

Reliever Carter Capps traded for Outfeilder Logan Morrison

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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:09 pm 
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Atradees wrote:
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/235440371.html

Injury risk guy but good player/hitter?

"Hart, 31, missed all of the 2013 season with a right knee injury. In 2012, the two-time All-Star hit .270/.334/.507 with 35 doubles, 30 homers and 83 RBI." Cbs sports..

Reliever Carter Capps traded for Outfeilder Logan Morrison



This is a good deal (in my opinion) low risk actually. only a one year deal, money's not bad. Can hit the ball well from the right side...

what it means for Smoak is yet to be seen. maybe he's part of a bigger deal.

edit:: appears he's coming in as the DH, so Smoak is safe in that regards.

second edit... didnt see the Logan Morrison trade. basically replaces Kendry Morales (for alot less I imagine) and adds the same type of player. Trading Capps is interesting. I see the next move being a fairly big name closer coming in.


Last edited by Uncle Si on Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:13 pm 
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But does he wear his sunglasses at night?


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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:21 pm 
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James in PA wrote:
But does he wear his sunglasses at night?



well played...


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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:22 pm 
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6'6" and some power.

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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:49 pm 
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Me and other Brewer fans right now:



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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:54 pm 
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Nice!


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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:20 pm 
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wow, this is getting gooood.

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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:42 pm 
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Can't say there's anything bad about this deal. Only $5M guaranteed, up to $8M in incentives, which if met, makes it well worth it.

And then they trade Capps for Logan Morrison, which is kind of a head-scratcher but a low-risk move. I wonder if they're going to dump Smoak in a trade or put the two of them in the Thunderdome and let them fight to the death. Combined salary is about $1M for the two of them, so maybe it's a good move to keep both going into ST and see who comes out on top.


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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:30 pm 
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Good risk if healthy he can hit and with good pop and is right handed. They also traded for another young power hitter so now if Kemp is too rich a trade (though I would love him if the price isn't ridiculous given he's an outfielder) I am okay with that. Now go get a frontline pitcher if possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:22 am 
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Uncle Si wrote:
Atradees wrote:
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/235440371.html

Injury risk guy but good player/hitter?

"Hart, 31, missed all of the 2013 season with a right knee injury. In 2012, the two-time All-Star hit .270/.334/.507 with 35 doubles, 30 homers and 83 RBI." Cbs sports..

Reliever Carter Capps traded for Outfeilder Logan Morrison



This is a good deal (in my opinion) low risk actually. only a one year deal, money's not bad. Can hit the ball well from the right side...

what it means for Smoak is yet to be seen. maybe he's part of a bigger deal.

edit:: appears he's coming in as the DH, so Smoak is safe in that regards.

second edit... didnt see the Logan Morrison trade. basically replaces Kendry Morales (for alot less I imagine) and adds the same type of player. Trading Capps is interesting. I see the next move being a fairly big name closer coming in.



A poor mans Morales? He was our best hitter. Which isn't saying much. So little talent available I was hoping we resigned KM.

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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:29 am 
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Definately a similar hitter to Morales. The biggest difference is the terms. KM was going to command a larger salary and more years. So getting Hart on one year is a great signing. It also gives them the financial flexibility to continue pursuit of players like Nelson Cruz, Price, etc....

Something big is coming. Whether we like it has yet to be seen (says alot about Z that he gets Cano and now Hart and yet we still dont trust his next move)


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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:35 pm 
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This signing and trade for Morrison are not that bad, that's something you don't say much about moves the M's make.

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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:44 pm 
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Still would like to see them sign Morales, doubt it will happen but I'll hold out hope.


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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:17 pm 
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Would love to have Morales and Choo as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:19 am 
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The Outfield wrote:
Would love to have Morales and Choo as well.



we need a CF. I know we went after Nelson Cruz. Fortunately he said no. Choo/Morales would work in a corner outfield. But I'd like to package Smoak and Ackely for a starting pitcher and defensive CF (Brett Gardner?)


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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:11 am 
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Uncle Si wrote:
The Outfield wrote:
Would love to have Morales and Choo as well.



we need a CF. I know we went after Nelson Cruz. Fortunately he said no. Choo/Morales would work in a corner outfield. But I'd like to package Smoak and Ackely for a starting pitcher and defensive CF (Brett Gardner?)

Smoak and ackley in a Yankee uniform and that line up. Ouch I'd say both would come in to some power at that stadium. And make another bad trade for the M's.

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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:30 am 
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425HawkSpark wrote:
Smoak and ackley in a Yankee uniform and that line up. Ouch I'd say both would come in to some power at that stadium. And make another bad trade for the M's.


:229031_confused2:

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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:31 am 
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425HawkSpark wrote:
Uncle Si wrote:
The Outfield wrote:
Would love to have Morales and Choo as well.



we need a CF. I know we went after Nelson Cruz. Fortunately he said no. Choo/Morales would work in a corner outfield. But I'd like to package Smoak and Ackely for a starting pitcher and defensive CF (Brett Gardner?)

Smoak and ackley in a Yankee uniform and that line up. Ouch I'd say both would come in to some power at that stadium. And make another bad trade for the M's.



I should clarify, you would send one of Smoak/Ackely and another piece for either a SP or Gardner. but given that, lets just say its both. Gardner is a far better hitter (leadoff hitter with some power, speed on the bases, etc.) as both of them, is a stud defensive outfielder and is under team control. Ackely is done as a Mariner (unless you really like his .220 BA and mediocre center field skills patrolling the lawn in Safeco). Cano has just taken 2nd base for the next 10 years. Smoak is... well Smoak.

Not sure how the two of them being good as Yankees somehow makes this bad for the Mariners. Both have been very unremarkable


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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:22 am 
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My worry as history has shown is that you move those two guys and they get a hitting coach that actually finds the flaw in what they are doing and bang All Stars. Been our history since I can remember. Ackely was a solid hitter till he came here, was doing well in Minors, same with Smoak.

Yeah Major league pitching is typically better but both initially hit up here and then fell off, Major League Pitching adjusted to them , they have not adjusted back. Usually that is a small thing as the chess match between hitters and pitching is always ongoing. One of the flaws of the Mariners over the years in my opinion. Good hitters have come in here and died also in trades. There is a reason and I don't know what it is. The hitters background argument has went away, they moved the fences in, what else?

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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:49 am 
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chris98251 wrote:
My worry as history has shown is that you move those two guys and they get a hitting coach that actually finds the flaw in what they are doing and bang All Stars. Been our history since I can remember. Ackely was a solid hitter till he came here, was doing well in Minors, same with Smoak.

Yeah Major league pitching is typically better but both initially hit up here and then fell off, Major League Pitching adjusted to them , they have not adjusted back. Usually that is a small thing as the chess match between hitters and pitching is always ongoing. One of the flaws of the Mariners over the years in my opinion. Good hitters have come in here and died also in trades. There is a reason and I don't know what it is. The hitters background argument has went away, they moved the fences in, what else?



while I understand your frustration and concern (all M's fans have the right to assume the worst of any move the team makes), i dont know of a hitter leaving here and "bang.. All-Star" happening (alteast no more than any other team), nor the impression we are a "AAA club" that only develops young players and ships them off. A-Rod and Griffey spent many successful years here in Seattle. Beltre was no better after he left Seattle.

Adam Jones is the club's one big mistake. Every club has that.

As for Smoak and Ackely, I would think that any major league player could list infinite ways in which the major leagues is far different and more challenging then the minors. and while Smoak, Ackely and Montero seem to have been washouts in terms of hitting, Seger, Franklin and Zunino seem to be adjusting quite well. Most minor leaguers see some success before pitching adjusts (i mean they are millionaire pitchers for what its worth). and while we can certainly blame coaching on their lack of development, they've had plenty of coaches. they both went back down to the minors and did little there (Smoak did turn into a fairly respectable average hitter, but he has limited power as a first baseman).

But more specifically, they dont serve a purpose with this club at the moment. Ackely just gave way to a 240 million dollar signing. Unless he suddenly becomes the centerfielder of the future (which is doubtful) then he's a good piece to move on. Smoak represents a bit more in terms of power and average than Ackely, but is as maddeningly inconsistent. Now Logan Morrison steps in to fill the same role as Smoak, only a little better.

there is more of a chance we move them on and they fade into the same role they fill for us than any chance of turning into all stars. And if a change of scenery was the motivation, then great for them. we cant change their scenery and keep them, so whats the point of keeping them? Let's say the new manager brings in a hitting coach of great merit, why not have better players around to work with him?

Both these players have positions being taken by better players. thats why they are tradeable pieces. if we get Gardner and Price (speculation ofcourse, ive no idea if we are going for either) for Smoak and Ackely (and a couple other pieces) arent we intrinsically better for it given we have Hart, Cano, Morrison already occupying their positions? who cares if they get better somewhere else? We would get better without them


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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:12 pm 
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Going back, Cruz, Morse, Tartabull, Varatek, those are off the top of my head. I have been around for a while and remember a lot of guys we passed on and became stars, pitchers as well like Lowe.

Just saying we have had a history of bailing on guys jsut about the time they get it figured out.

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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:23 pm 
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I wouldn't give up on Ackley. I think they might have figured out what he was doing wrong. Last year when he was swinging earlier in the season he would be falling away from home plate as he was swinging which is a damn near impossible way to swing.

He corrected that towards the end of last year and had a huge August. I am hoping they actually identified the problem and figured it out because it was obvious to me watching that he had fixed that problem and the results followed in a big way.


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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:28 pm 
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chris98251 wrote:
Going back, Cruz, Morse, Tartabull, Varatek, those are off the top of my head. I have been around for a while and remember a lot of guys we passed on and became stars, pitchers as well like Lowe.

Just saying we have had a history of bailing on guys jsut about the time they get it figured out.


Cruz had it figured out before they traded him, they just overpaid for relief help. That is actually true in the Varitek case as well. The varitek case was extremely annoying because they packaged him up with Derek Lowe and got Heathcliff Slocumb. Slocumb was close to being released and we gave them two good future major league players for him.


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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:46 pm 
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bigtrain21 wrote:
chris98251 wrote:
Going back, Cruz, Morse, Tartabull, Varatek, those are off the top of my head. I have been around for a while and remember a lot of guys we passed on and became stars, pitchers as well like Lowe.

Just saying we have had a history of bailing on guys jsut about the time they get it figured out.


Cruz had it figured out before they traded him, they just overpaid for relief help. That is actually true in the Varitek case as well. The varitek case was extremely annoying because they packaged him up with Derek Lowe and got Heathcliff Slocumb. Slocumb was close to being released and we gave them two good future major league players for him.


While Tartabull had a nice rookie year for us, i dont think he made more than one all star appearance. Morse had one good year when Seattle traded him. and while Cruz had a couple nice years in Toronto (two) thats not exactly damning. I dont like to talk about Varitek.

Ive been around awhile as well... i guess outside of Adam Jones I just dont see a "history" of bailing on younger guys (again, atleast not anymore than anyone else) who turn into phenoms. I mean the Twins bailed on david Ortiz... and we can say we've turned the tables and become quite the career boosters for players as well (Langston, Randy Johnson, Brett Boone, Olerud... that list would stretch alot deeper).

Either way, its subjective. I dont see Ackely having "figured it out"... but lets say you're right. What do we do with him?


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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:27 pm 
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I would start at zero again, let him work in the Rainers, yeah a step back but he needs to get his consistency back, He really isn't a Center Fielder either, not by regular standards with arm and range. The problem I have is he is too good and smart not to figure it out. If we unload him it will be for peanuts at this point. He is a dilemma; if we could showcase him having his stroke back and we have a logjam we could at least get decent compensation. 12t round pick for a couple prospects just to move his salary, which isn't all that much is a total washout.

My thoughts of him getting it and it haunting us and trading him for peanuts versus your question are a conundrum.

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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:47 pm 
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I would like to mention that David Ortiz was traded with Varitek if I remember correctly.

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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
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CurryStopstheRuns wrote:
I would like to mention that David Ortiz was traded with Varitek if I remember correctly.


Nope. Derek Lowe.


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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:28 pm 
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bigtrain21 wrote:
CurryStopstheRuns wrote:
I would like to mention that David Ortiz was traded with Varitek if I remember correctly.


Nope. Derek Lowe.


Ahh, okay. When did we trade Ortiz?

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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:53 pm 
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CurryStopstheRuns wrote:
bigtrain21 wrote:
CurryStopstheRuns wrote:
I would like to mention that David Ortiz was traded with Varitek if I remember correctly.


Nope. Derek Lowe.


Ahh, okay. When did we trade Ortiz?


He was David Arias when he was Mariners property and we traded him as a player to be named later in the Dave Hollins trade.


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 Post subject: Re: Mariners to sign Cory Hart
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:18 pm 
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bigtrain21 wrote:
I wouldn't give up on Ackley. I think they might have figured out what he was doing wrong. Last year when he was swinging earlier in the season he would be falling away from home plate as he was swinging which is a damn near impossible way to swing.

He corrected that towards the end of last year and had a huge August. I am hoping they actually identified the problem and figured it out because it was obvious to me watching that he had fixed that problem and the results followed in a big way.

Ackleys problem is between the ears. Its lack of confidence and a horrible approach for the AB's. Correctable, if he isn't a total headcase, which is still up for debate.

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