The obsession with how many titles we have

Discuss any and all sports-related topics. From the College Sports to Baseball and everything in between. RATING: PG-13
  • Seahwkgal wrote:Here is some history for ya......
    The Cardinals were founded in 1898, and are the oldest continuously run professional American football club in the United States. 1898 and have never won a championship. I think that is funny. That's what they get for naming their mascot after a whimpy, non-predatory bird.

    Wow, that is absolutely terrible. I think San Diego and Phoenix get a free pass despite their garbage sports teams because they are in warm weather areas. The media thinks it rains here every day and that we are all permanently depressed.
    BreesIsOverrated
    NET Practice Squad
     
    Posts: 80
    Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:10 pm


  • Polaris wrote:
    60niners wrote:I think when you guys snag your first trophy you'll understand. They are something of enormous pride; the kind of pride that makes you want to shout it out to the world. Maybe for some people it's in a boastful fashion, but for me it's just in a proud manner (though I don't typically use the "5 ringz" argument as a testament of anything).

    One of the fondest memories of my childhood was watching the 1994 Super Bowl in my favorite pizza parlor with my mom. I was only 12, but my love for football had started a few years prior, so it was the most unreal excitement to watch the entire season unfold and watch my team, above all others', prevail. I guess you can say I was indoctrinated into my fandom from my mother. She's a long time Niner fan and I was born two days after they won their first title... So in the Bay Area they were the bee's knees.

    When we look back on the teams that we love to root for, we cannot help but measure them against the competition - isn't that what football is all about anyway? So when you look back on the history of modern football, how else would you measure up teams? You can't use the current year only as a measuring stick of "best" or "worst" teams... It would be like saying that the Lions are a more successful and winning franchise than the Packers. I don't think it matters, how long it takes, as long as it happens. The Cardinals are possibly the oldest continuous team in football, and are one of the losingest of all time.... I guarantee they would trade 50 years of that history for one Super Bowl ring.

    If/when Seattle wins one, I can guarantee you, there will never come a point in your natural life that you will not be proud of it. There will never be a point when it will cease to count as a number of titles, and it will never stop counting in your heart either. To suggest that rings expire or mean less because they happened in prior years is foolish to me.


    Except don't you think it's just a little bit foolish to talk about "five rings" when the last one happened before Seattle was even part of your division. Talk about irrelevant (at least if you want to compare to Seattle)!


    No. Just like the poster said above, once you get a ring you will understand. So far you don't have a ring. In fact, you want to be crowned without even getting to the Superbowl. Right now, Seattle is like some upstarts, you're really good this year, but still haven't won it. Last year you beat the Niners, but still had to stay home and watch us play in the Superbowl.

    I personally think Seattle is better than the Niners this year, probably the best team in the league, but if you don't win the big one, you will still be the same ole Seahawks, make a lot of noise but never can win the big one. The Niners, Cowboys, Steelers, NY Giants are storied NFL franchises, we're always looking to win SB's. Fans of those cites will always kind of thumb their noses at you until win a trophy.
    Last edited by Ninerg on Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
    Ninerg
    NET Practice Squad
     
    Posts: 73
    Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:25 pm


  • OP,
    It's simple really. "You don't have no rings" is a simplistic insult. Most people are simple-minded and limited in their ability to roll out quality insults. Therefore that one comes up a lot. There's not much more to it.
    User avatar
    MidwestHawker
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1467
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:26 am
    Location: Indianapolis


  • MidwestHawker wrote:OP,
    It's simple really. "You don't have no rings" is a simplistic insult. Most people are simple-minded and limited in their ability to roll out quality insults. Therefore that one comes up a lot. There's not much more to it.


    Unfortunately that's how its. The Niners, Steelers and Cowboys are racing for the most SB's trophies, not regular season wins or the most division titles. It's SB or bust.
    Ninerg
    NET Practice Squad
     
    Posts: 73
    Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:25 pm


  • Ninerg wrote:Unfortunately that's how its. The Niners, Steelers and Cowboys are racing for the most SB's trophies, not regular season wins or the most division titles. It's SB or bust.


    True or false: if a person brags about trophies their team won before they were actually born, they should forever be considered a drooling moron, or worse.
    User avatar
    MidwestHawker
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1467
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:26 am
    Location: Indianapolis


  • For instance, upon going to grad school at IU, I've adopted the Hoosiers as a secondary college team. I enjoy cheering for Hoosier basketball (I follow and cheer for Hoosier football too, but umm...that hasn't gone well so far). Lots of longtime Hoosier fans like to brag about the "five banners on the wall" for national titles in basketball. Out of a lack of desire to become morally obligated to beat the ever-living crap out of myself, I will never brag about those banners because they pre-dated my existence as any sort of fan of the program. If I ever do that, I hope that someone kicks me in the balls as hard as they can with a steel-toed boot and then stands over me laughing at the fact that they destroyed my ability to procreate.
    User avatar
    MidwestHawker
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1467
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:26 am
    Location: Indianapolis


  • MidwestHawker wrote:
    Ninerg wrote:Unfortunately that's how its. The Niners, Steelers and Cowboys are racing for the most SB's trophies, not regular season wins or the most division titles. It's SB or bust.


    True or false: if a person brags about trophies their team won before they were actually born, they should forever be considered a drooling moron, or worse.


    Let's compare to another sport. Do you think Yankee fans ignore their past championships? They still take great pride in the championships that were won going back to the Babe Ruth era. They would laugh at Boston, their most heated rivals, and accuse them of being cursed since had not won any titles since they let Babe Ruth go.

    You can't just be a prisoner of the moment. Right now, Seattle is a very good team, however you still haven't won anything. Why on earth do you want the rest of the NFL to worship at your alter when you don't have one single solitary trophy in your cupboard.

    Even if you get home field and trounce every NFC opponent on your way to the SB and you lose, you will be still be back to square one. If you win it, you will be forever spoiled and will expect win every year, if not, the season will be a disappointment.
    Ninerg
    NET Practice Squad
     
    Posts: 73
    Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:25 pm


  • MidwestHawker wrote:
    Ninerg wrote:Unfortunately that's how its. The Niners, Steelers and Cowboys are racing for the most SB's trophies, not regular season wins or the most division titles. It's SB or bust.


    True or false: if a person brags about trophies their team won before they were actually born, they should forever be considered a drooling moron, or worse.


    True
    User avatar
    dopeboy206
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 566
    Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 9:47 am


  • I'm OK with bragging about past championships. Isn't that what it's all about?

    I envy storied franchises like the Yankees who if you're a fan you've been going to ticker tape parades for 25% of your life.
    If there is no Seahawk football in heaven, then we will never die.
    User avatar
    Sgt. Largent
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3813
    Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:10 am


  • Sgt. Largent wrote:I'm OK with bragging about past championships. Isn't that what it's all about?

    I envy storied franchises like the Yankees who if you're a fan you've been going to ticker tape parades for 25% of your life.

    So you envy teams paying $200+ Million to buy a championship? Or their mythical titles when their was no true playoffs?
    BreesIsOverrated
    NET Practice Squad
     
    Posts: 80
    Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:10 pm


  • Ninerg wrote:

    No. Just like the poster said above, once you get a ring you will understand. So far you don't have a ring. In fact, you want to be crowned without even getting to the Superbowl. Right now, Seattle is like some upstarts, you're really good this year, but still haven't won it. Last year you beat the Niners, but still had to stay home and watch us play in the Superbowl.

    I personally think Seattle is better than the Niners this year, probably the best team in the league, but if you don't win the big one, you will still be the same ole Seahawks, make a lot of noise but never can win the big one. The Niners, Cowboys, Steelers, NY Giants are storied NFL franchises, we're always looking to win SB's. Fans of those cites will always kind of thumb their noses at you until win a trophy.


    Condescension suits you.


    I would like a picture of your ring. You know, the one the Niners gave you.
    SEAHAWKS.NET. We All We Got, We All We Need
    User avatar
    Scottemojo
    *Scott of Smacksville*
    *Scott of Smacksville*
     
    Posts: 11634
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:14 am


  • BreesIsOverrated wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:I'm OK with bragging about past championships. Isn't that what it's all about?

    I envy storied franchises like the Yankees who if you're a fan you've been going to ticker tape parades for 25% of your life.

    So you envy teams paying $200+ Million to buy a championship? Or their mythical titles when their was no true playoffs?


    Yes to both.


    We have the richest owner in the NFL, does that mean we have an unfair advantage because we have the nicest practice facility, team plane and financial support pot to pay coaches, etc?

    The Yankees spend a lot, but you also have to spend it wisely. IMO if you think that diminishes their rings, I'd say you're in the minority. Fans don't care, feels just as good.
    If there is no Seahawk football in heaven, then we will never die.
    User avatar
    Sgt. Largent
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3813
    Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:10 am


  • 60niners wrote:I think when you guys snag your first trophy you'll understand. They are something of enormous pride; the kind of pride that makes you want to shout it out to the world. Maybe for some people it's in a boastful fashion, but for me it's just in a proud manner (though I don't typically use the "5 ringz" argument as a testament of anything).

    One of the fondest memories of my childhood was watching the 1994 Super Bowl in my favorite pizza parlor with my mom. I was only 12, but my love for football had started a few years prior, so it was the most unreal excitement to watch the entire season unfold and watch my team, above all others', prevail. I guess you can say I was indoctrinated into my fandom from my mother. She's a long time Niner fan and I was born two days after they won their first title... So in the Bay Area they were the bee's knees.

    When we look back on the teams that we love to root for, we cannot help but measure them against the competition - isn't that what football is all about anyway? So when you look back on the history of modern football, how else would you measure up teams? You can't use the current year only as a measuring stick of "best" or "worst" teams... It would be like saying that the Lions are a more successful and winning franchise than the Packers. I don't think it matters, how long it takes, as long as it happens. The Cardinals are possibly the oldest continuous team in football, and are one of the losingest of all time.... I guarantee they would trade 50 years of that history for one Super Bowl ring.

    If/when Seattle wins one, I can guarantee you, there will never come a point in your natural life that you will not be proud of it. There will never be a point when it will cease to count as a number of titles, and it will never stop counting in your heart either. To suggest that rings expire or mean less because they happened in prior years is foolish to me.


    :pukeface:

    If you're putting this much importance on a trophy OTHER PEOPLE WON this many years ago, you need a more exciting life.
    User avatar
    plyka
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1323
    Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:40 pm


  • And how many have the 49ers won in the salary cap era? ZERO. Hell, they've only been relevant a couple times.


    Further - where were all you 49er trolls a few years ago? I'm partner in a neurology practice in San Francisco, and am down there frequently on business. Never saw Niner fans in the Bay Area until this last year or two.

    I've been to multiple Seahawks-49ers games at Candlestick over the years, almost every game since 2002 actually. Back in the old days, I could pickup tickets to Candlestick for $20 by just showing up to the park and asking any old person if they wanted to sell their tickets. They'd be happy to sell them cheaply, even though I'm standing there in my Seahawks jersey.

    The fans were notoriously quiet, too. I'll never forget how, during the Singletary era, Matt Hasselbeck was holding his hand to his ear after completing a long pass. There'd be like 100-200 people in the stadium. It was like a golf tournament.

    My girlfriend preferred going to games in San Francisco because it was so quiet and laid-back. The only people at the game would be a handful of older fans who never even mentioned rings. You had to stay out of the 300 level though, because it would be full of drunk gangbangers who could never afford to attend a game in a real NFL city, but could easily get into Candlestick after buying tickets for $5-10 in the parking lot.

    The "fair-weather fan" label fits almost everyone in a 49ers jersey. They didn't even exist until a few years ago, and only show up when they're winning. The 49ers have the weakest fanbase in the NFL, so I literally have to stop myself from laughing whenever they speak up.

    Compare that to games I've attended in Cleveland, Detroit, Washington and Philadelphia - where the teams sell out even when they're doing poorly, and it's almost impossible to get tickets. I can respect those fans because they're there even when they're losing.

    You never see that in San Francisco. My friends down there say it's just because you have too many teams to root for. Your average 49er fan over the last decade went through phases - they started out a Raiders fan, moved on to the A's, then it was the Sharks, then it was the Giants, and now it's the 49ers. Open up their closet and you'll find all kinds of team gear, but you won't find any Niner gear purchased between 1995 and 2010, guaranteed.
    Last edited by HansGruber on Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
    User avatar
    HansGruber
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2333
    Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:39 pm


  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    BreesIsOverrated wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:I'm OK with bragging about past championships. Isn't that what it's all about?

    I envy storied franchises like the Yankees who if you're a fan you've been going to ticker tape parades for 25% of your life.

    So you envy teams paying $200+ Million to buy a championship? Or their mythical titles when their was no true playoffs?


    Yes to both.


    We have the richest owner in the NFL, does that mean we have an unfair advantage because we have the nicest practice facility, team plane and financial support pot to pay coaches, etc?

    The Yankees spend a lot, but you also have to spend it wisely. IMO if you think that diminishes their rings, I'd say you're in the minority. Fans don't care, feels just as good.

    This is the dumbest argument ever. MLB has no salary cap, NFL does. And spend it wisely? Give me a break... Ok then, lets see how the Yankees would do with a $23 Million payroll instead of a $228 Million payroll. Money is everything in maintaining a championship franchise in the modern MLB.
    BreesIsOverrated
    NET Practice Squad
     
    Posts: 80
    Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:10 pm


  • Ninerg wrote:
    You can't just be a prisoner of the moment. Right now, Seattle is a very good team, however you still haven't won anything.


    Hey, quick question... are the Sharks any good this year?

    Oh wait, why do I have to even ask? You're on a football forum, being a "49ers fan". Which can only mean that the Sharks suck worse than the Niners right now. So I'm going to go ahead and guess the answer - no the Sharks are probably not that great this year.
    User avatar
    HansGruber
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2333
    Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:39 pm


  • BreesIsOverrated wrote:This is the dumbest argument ever. MLB has no salary cap, NFL does. And spend it wisely? Give me a break... Ok then, lets see how the Yankees would do with a $23 Million payroll instead of a $228 Million payroll. Money is everything in maintaining a championship franchise in the modern MLB.



    THAT'S the dumbest argument ever. I guarantee you if the M's had the biggest payroll we wouldn't be saying "oh well we're not very excited about this World Series championship, we had an unfair advantage." We'd be dancing in the streets just like Yankee fans do.

    But that's what I expect out of Seattle fans, we're great at justifying mediocrity for our sports teams. Falls right in line with all the other loser mentality excuses like "the league hates us"..............."the media hates us"..............."the refs hate us"................and all the other hairbrained conspiracy theories people puke up on here.

    One thing matters, and ONLY one thing. Rings. Doesn't matter how you get em. Period.
    If there is no Seahawk football in heaven, then we will never die.
    User avatar
    Sgt. Largent
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3813
    Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:10 am


  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    BreesIsOverrated wrote:This is the dumbest argument ever. MLB has no salary cap, NFL does. And spend it wisely? Give me a break... Ok then, lets see how the Yankees would do with a $23 Million payroll instead of a $228 Million payroll. Money is everything in maintaining a championship franchise in the modern MLB.



    THAT'S the dumbest argument ever. I guarantee you if the M's had the biggest payroll we wouldn't be saying "oh well we're not very excited about this World Series championship, we had an unfair advantage." We'd be dancing in the streets just like Yankee fans do.

    But that's what I expect out of Seattle fans, we're great at justifying mediocrity for our sports teams. Falls right in line with all the other loser mentality excuses like "the league hates us"..............."the media hates us"..............."the refs hate us"................and all the other hairbrained conspiracy theories people puke up on here.

    One thing matters, and ONLY one thing. Rings. Doesn't matter how you get em. Period.

    Biggest if ever. And Super Bowl XL was officiated terribly and the outcome was impacted, even Bill Leavy himself said it. But I agree the media and league doesn't hate us, but the refs seem to.
    BreesIsOverrated
    NET Practice Squad
     
    Posts: 80
    Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:10 pm


  • Ninerg wrote:
    Polaris wrote:
    60niners wrote:I think when you guys snag your first trophy you'll understand. They are something of enormous pride; the kind of pride that makes you want to shout it out to the world. Maybe for some people it's in a boastful fashion, but for me it's just in a proud manner (though I don't typically use the "5 ringz" argument as a testament of anything).

    One of the fondest memories of my childhood was watching the 1994 Super Bowl in my favorite pizza parlor with my mom. I was only 12, but my love for football had started a few years prior, so it was the most unreal excitement to watch the entire season unfold and watch my team, above all others', prevail. I guess you can say I was indoctrinated into my fandom from my mother. She's a long time Niner fan and I was born two days after they won their first title... So in the Bay Area they were the bee's knees.

    When we look back on the teams that we love to root for, we cannot help but measure them against the competition - isn't that what football is all about anyway? So when you look back on the history of modern football, how else would you measure up teams? You can't use the current year only as a measuring stick of "best" or "worst" teams... It would be like saying that the Lions are a more successful and winning franchise than the Packers. I don't think it matters, how long it takes, as long as it happens. The Cardinals are possibly the oldest continuous team in football, and are one of the losingest of all time.... I guarantee they would trade 50 years of that history for one Super Bowl ring.

    If/when Seattle wins one, I can guarantee you, there will never come a point in your natural life that you will not be proud of it. There will never be a point when it will cease to count as a number of titles, and it will never stop counting in your heart either. To suggest that rings expire or mean less because they happened in prior years is foolish to me.


    Except don't you think it's just a little bit foolish to talk about "five rings" when the last one happened before Seattle was even part of your division. Talk about irrelevant (at least if you want to compare to Seattle)!


    No. Just like the poster said above, once you get a ring you will understand. So far you don't have a ring. In fact, you want to be crowned without even getting to the Superbowl. Right now, Seattle is like some upstarts, you're really good this year, but still haven't won it. Last year you beat the Niners, but still had to stay home and watch us play in the Superbowl.

    I personally think Seattle is better than the Niners this year, probably the best team in the league, but if you don't win the big one, you will still be the same ole Seahawks, make a lot of noise but never can win the big one. The Niners, Cowboys, Steelers, NY Giants are storied NFL franchises, we're always looking to win SB's. Fans of those cites will always kind of thumb their noses at you until win a trophy.


    Ridiculous.

    No one "wants to be crowned" anything. As long as Seattle goes further than they did last year, they are not "the Same old Seahawks" with a bunch of talk that amounts to nothing. First of all, this team is different kind of team to begin with. Built on youth and depth to supplement that youth as players in a system designed to take advantage of physical play and speed, with genuine competition in play at practice to hone their skills.

    Competition at practice makes the actual game for this team a lot more fun than it is for other teams. The Hawks feed on the chance to win and in case you haven't noticed the Hawks have been competitive in every game they have played since week 2 of the 2011 season. All they have done is improve since then. As long as they continue to do so, they are successful.

    The Hawks are guaranteed nothing, but their chances of getting to a title improve as the season becomes closer to ending. If the Hawks get the division and HFA for the playoffs, the chances become even greater. It is exciting and honestly a truly unique situation. If we just sat their worrying about the possibility of losing we would be robbing ourselves of the enjoyment of difficult ascension to the top. As long as the Hawks improve every year I see it as successful. At some point there is no higher accomplishment than the top. Niner fans told us that making it to the Superbowl means nothing in the 2005 season. They laughed at our pride for getting there. Then last year took the same pinnacle and turned it into an accomplishment to be proud of.

    You will never hear a Seahawks fan criticizing another franchise for not having a championship. Whether the Hawks win 1, 5 or ZERO. You say we don't know because we don't have one, but I can only argue that with you don't know either because the Hawks don't have one.

    I am hoping we will find out soon. Seattle fans don't want to be crowned, they simply want their dedicated rivals to respect them as such and acknowledge that they are a quality team rather than just constantly making up reasons to diminish the quality of the game they bring.
    "The life you lose may be your own" - Drunk dude at the bar
    User avatar
    loafoftatupu
    I'M JIMMY!
     
    Posts: 5899
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:17 pm
    Location: Auburn, WA


  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    BreesIsOverrated wrote:This is the dumbest argument ever. MLB has no salary cap, NFL does. And spend it wisely? Give me a break... Ok then, lets see how the Yankees would do with a $23 Million payroll instead of a $228 Million payroll. Money is everything in maintaining a championship franchise in the modern MLB.



    THAT'S the dumbest argument ever. I guarantee you if the M's had the biggest payroll we wouldn't be saying "oh well we're not very excited about this World Series championship, we had an unfair advantage." We'd be dancing in the streets just like Yankee fans do.

    But that's what I expect out of Seattle fans, we're great at justifying mediocrity for our sports teams. Falls right in line with all the other loser mentality excuses like "the league hates us"..............."the media hates us"..............."the refs hate us"................and all the other hairbrained conspiracy theories people puke up on here.

    One thing matters, and ONLY one thing. Rings. Doesn't matter how you get em. Period.


    Yours is kind of a dumb argument because you are arguing something entirely different than what he said, and you never disproved his point. He said baseball championships are bought. Which they are. We all know who will be in the World Series before it ever happens, and there are only a few teams worth watching, who all continually try to outbid each other for a championship. Are you arguing that is false?
    User avatar
    HansGruber
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2333
    Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:39 pm


  • I think my response to the OP is that if there is a hardware obsession by other fanbases, it is an obsession with their own hardware, not necessarily an obsession with our lack of hardware. That is to be expected, championships should be enjoyed obsessively :)

    If a discussion is about how much success a town has had in sports, trophies pretty much start and end the discussion. I have no problem with that. That is a historical discussion.

    The only time trophy-talk is obtrusive is when it occurs in the middle of a conversation about how well a team has performed over a specific time range. Most NFL discussions surround the current year and might include the last couple of years. If trophies are brought into the discussion, that isn't a sign of trophy-obsession, it's a sign of someone who has lost the argument within the current scope and needs to shift terrain to somewhere more favorable i.e. the historical scope.
    hawk45
    *GOLD SUPPORTER*
    *GOLD SUPPORTER*
     
    Posts: 5485
    Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:08 pm


  • BreesIsOverrated wrote:I just find it funny that fans from the 49ers and other fanbases obsess that we haven't won a Super Bowl yet.... and that our city supposedly sucks as a sports town. I know we only have one major modern Pro title (1979 NBA)... but I never see the same thing being said about well... pretty much any other city. What makes us so much more hated than San Diego, Phoenix, Buffalo, Minneapolis, Cleveland, Nashville, Charlotte, Jacksonville, Atlanta, New Orleans, Cincinnati...etc and many more that have accomplished in most cases the same or LESS than our city has? It's like they have some personal vendetta against Seattle winning another title.

    They hate us because Russell Wilson will blow away their stinking five golden rings. This is what it's like being at the top--get used to it.
    SEAHAWKS HEADED FOR BLOODBATH
    http://cover32.com/seahawks/2014/11/19/ ... bloodbath/
    Follow me on Twitter:
    @George_OGorman
    User avatar
    Lords of Scythia
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1423
    Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:32 am


  • HansGruber wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    BreesIsOverrated wrote:This is the dumbest argument ever. MLB has no salary cap, NFL does. And spend it wisely? Give me a break... Ok then, lets see how the Yankees would do with a $23 Million payroll instead of a $228 Million payroll. Money is everything in maintaining a championship franchise in the modern MLB.



    THAT'S the dumbest argument ever. I guarantee you if the M's had the biggest payroll we wouldn't be saying "oh well we're not very excited about this World Series championship, we had an unfair advantage." We'd be dancing in the streets just like Yankee fans do.

    But that's what I expect out of Seattle fans, we're great at justifying mediocrity for our sports teams. Falls right in line with all the other loser mentality excuses like "the league hates us"..............."the media hates us"..............."the refs hate us"................and all the other hairbrained conspiracy theories people puke up on here.

    One thing matters, and ONLY one thing. Rings. Doesn't matter how you get em. Period.


    Yours is kind of a dumb argument because you are arguing something entirely different than what he said, and you never disproved his point. He said baseball championships are bought. Which they are. We all know who will be in the World Series before it ever happens, and there are only a few teams worth watching, who all continually try to outbid each other for a championship. Are you arguing that is false?


    Not true at all. Look at these recent World Series winners, eight of them since 1998 have won with less than a 100 million payroll


    YEAR WINNER W-L PAYROLL
    2007 Red Sox 96-66 $143,026,214
    2006 Cardinals 83-78 $88,891,371
    2005 White Sox 99-63 $75,178,000
    2004 Red Sox 98-64 $127,298,500
    2003 Marlins 91-71 $48,750,000
    2002 Angels 99-63 $61,721,667
    2001 Diamondbacks 92-70 $85,247,999
    2000 Yankees 87-74 $92,938,260
    1999 Yankees 98-64 $88,130,709
    1998 Yankees 114-48 $63,159,898

    Does it help to have a big payroll? Of course. But to say you can buy a World Series is ridiculous. It still takes properly managing, GM'ing, signings, farm system, luck with injuries, etc.
    If there is no Seahawk football in heaven, then we will never die.
    User avatar
    Sgt. Largent
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3813
    Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:10 am


  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    HansGruber wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    BreesIsOverrated wrote:This is the dumbest argument ever. MLB has no salary cap, NFL does. And spend it wisely? Give me a break... Ok then, lets see how the Yankees would do with a $23 Million payroll instead of a $228 Million payroll. Money is everything in maintaining a championship franchise in the modern MLB.



    THAT'S the dumbest argument ever. I guarantee you if the M's had the biggest payroll we wouldn't be saying "oh well we're not very excited about this World Series championship, we had an unfair advantage." We'd be dancing in the streets just like Yankee fans do.

    But that's what I expect out of Seattle fans, we're great at justifying mediocrity for our sports teams. Falls right in line with all the other loser mentality excuses like "the league hates us"..............."the media hates us"..............."the refs hate us"................and all the other hairbrained conspiracy theories people puke up on here.

    One thing matters, and ONLY one thing. Rings. Doesn't matter how you get em. Period.


    Yours is kind of a dumb argument because you are arguing something entirely different than what he said, and you never disproved his point. He said baseball championships are bought. Which they are. We all know who will be in the World Series before it ever happens, and there are only a few teams worth watching, who all continually try to outbid each other for a championship. Are you arguing that is false?


    Not true at all. Look at these recent World Series winners, eight of them since 1998 have won with less than a 100 million payroll


    YEAR WINNER W-L PAYROLL
    2007 Red Sox 96-66 $143,026,214
    2006 Cardinals 83-78 $88,891,371
    2005 White Sox 99-63 $75,178,000
    2004 Red Sox 98-64 $127,298,500
    2003 Marlins 91-71 $48,750,000
    2002 Angels 99-63 $61,721,667
    2001 Diamondbacks 92-70 $85,247,999
    2000 Yankees 87-74 $92,938,260
    1999 Yankees 98-64 $88,130,709
    1998 Yankees 114-48 $63,159,898

    Does it help to have a big payroll? Of course. But to say you can buy a World Series is ridiculous. It still takes properly managing, GM'ing, signings, farm system, luck with injuries, etc.

    Yankees were 1st in MLB in payroll in 1999 and 2000... 2nd in 1998. You didn't factor inflation at all. The only outlier is the Marlins, pretty much every other winner is nowhere near the bottom for payroll.
    BreesIsOverrated
    NET Practice Squad
     
    Posts: 80
    Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:10 pm


  • This whole argument depends largely on your perspective.

    For the casual/bandwagon fan, it seems the most important thing watching the favorite team win NOW. History is irrelevant.

    For the football fan in general, seeing great football plays , regardless of the team (to some degree).

    For the franchise and seasoned fans, wins are most important, but not always this week; the overall picture is bigger than one week. This is where the history becomes valuable, and the supposed argument that "5 rings" matters a bit. The franchise and city it's tied to are bigger than the individual players or fans, and the logo/uniform takes priority over everything else.

    For the league, they don't care who wins, so long as it increases revenue. If the product they're marketing is less than profitable, then they could conceivably find a way to make it more so, even if that means giving some teams more difficult schedules, changing rules that seem to favor a certain team's approach.

    My take. Flame away.
    ____________
    BLUE and GREEN...
    User avatar
    Ad Hawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 736
    Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:25 am


  • Baseball has more teams in the playoffs and world series in the last 20 years than either basketball or football, and by a considerable margin. The only thing the uncapped payroll does is make it nearly impossible for the bottom 3-4 to compete with the rest of the league. Except, Pitt made the playoffs, the Marlins have two WS, and even KC is close.
    "So between my friends and I we have been at every home game to date this year, and we have all been plotting the offensive plays called. " ------Anthony!
    User avatar
    Tical21
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1546
    Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:37 pm


  • Ninerg wrote:Let's compare to another sport. Do you think Yankee fans ignore their past championships? They still take great pride in the championships that were won going back to the Babe Ruth era. They would laugh at Boston, their most heated rivals, and accuse them of being cursed since had not won any titles since they let Babe Ruth go.


    This makes them stupid. (I hate both the Red Sox and Yankees FWIW, and think that people who think that the Sox are somehow way nobler than the Yankees because they've won fewer titles are really dumb.)

    To still bask in a title won during your time as a fan is one thing. To bask in titles won before you were so much as a clump of cells is another. Do I sit around being really proud about the USA's accomplishments in the Revolutionary War? "Take that, redcoats!" That crap has nothing to do with me. Titles your team won before you were ever a fan have nothing to do with you. You can be glad, I suppose, that your team has a storied history (and yes I'm glad that the Revolution went well, as far as that goes), but to throw that in anyone else's face in the present day is just incredibly dumb and makes no sense.
    User avatar
    MidwestHawker
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1467
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:26 am
    Location: Indianapolis


  • HansGruber wrote:
    dopeboy206 wrote:Deleted due to language


    Cap went into effect in 1994 after they won and they were busted for cheating the cap. That's why the other owners kicked DeBartolo out of the club. Well, that and the criminal stuff


    What were they cheating? Just curious. I was young at the time and still in grade school so I wouldn't know.
    User avatar
    dopeboy206
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 566
    Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 9:47 am


  • dopeboy206 wrote:
    HansGruber wrote:
    dopeboy206 wrote:Deleted due to language


    Cap went into effect in 1994 after they won and they were busted for cheating the cap. That's why the other owners kicked DeBartolo out of the club. Well, that and the criminal stuff


    What were they cheating? Just curious. I was young at the time and still in grade school so I wouldn't know.


    49ers cheated the cap to sign Deion Sanders from the Saints, Ken Norton Jr from the Cowboys, and a few other players.

    More info here:
    http://articles.philly.com/1994-09-27/s ... ken-norton

    Most old-school fans who were around back then remember it well. They had to cheat to get the ring in 1994, and it pissed off the other owners so bad that they continued to sue DeBartolo until he finally gave the team to family members.

    The 49ers were the epitome of bought and paid-for championships. They're the primary reason the salary cap was implemented (along with Dallas and Washington).

    And since the salary cap?

    JACK SQUAT. They've won nothing. There weren't even any 49er fans left in San Francisco (except for the older folks).

    That entire fanbase is a joke, and even gets laughed at in the Bay Area. Don't believe me? Go down there to a sports bar and watch what happens when one of the 49er posers talks trash to a Raiders fan. It's hilarious.
    User avatar
    HansGruber
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2333
    Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:39 pm


  • I guess, for fairness, I should also mention that the only SuperBowl championship John Elway ever won was when Denver was cheating the cap as well. So it wasn't just the 49ers. The Broncos cheated the cap, and were never heard of again too.
    User avatar
    HansGruber
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2333
    Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:39 pm


  • HansGruber wrote:
    dopeboy206 wrote:
    HansGruber wrote:
    dopeboy206 wrote:Deleted due to language


    Cap went into effect in 1994 after they won and they were busted for cheating the cap. That's why the other owners kicked DeBartolo out of the club. Well, that and the criminal stuff


    What were they cheating? Just curious. I was young at the time and still in grade school so I wouldn't know.


    49ers cheated the cap to sign Deion Sanders from the Saints, Ken Norton Jr from the Cowboys, and a few other players.

    More info here:
    http://articles.philly.com/1994-09-27/s ... ken-norton

    Most old-school fans who were around back then remember it well. They had to cheat to get the ring in 1994, and it pissed off the other owners so bad that they continued to sue DeBartolo until he finally gave the team to family members.

    The 49ers were the epitome of bought and paid-for championships. They're the primary reason the salary cap was implemented (along with Dallas and Washington).

    And since the salary cap?

    JACK SQUAT. They've won nothing. There weren't even any 49er fans left in San Francisco (except for the older folks).

    That entire fanbase is a joke, and even gets laughed at in the Bay Area. Don't believe me? Go down there to a sports bar and watch what happens when one of the 49er posers talks trash to a Raiders fan. It's hilarious.


    You're sense of Niner history never ceases to amaze me. The idea that other owners pushed Eddie D out because of things that he did prior to 1994 is absurd. But please, don't let me intrude on your delusions
    User avatar
    NorCal
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 258
    Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:10 pm


  • BreesIsOverrated wrote:Yankees were 1st in MLB in payroll in 1999 and 2000... 2nd in 1998. You didn't factor inflation at all. The only outlier is the Marlins, pretty much every other winner is nowhere near the bottom for payroll.


    How'd you get from "you can buy a world series title" to "it's only fair if bottom of the payroll teams win?"

    Here's the facts, the Yankees have had the highest payroll in baseball for like 100 years now, and only have what, 26 titles? That's only a 25% success rate. So no, you can't always just buy yourself a title.

    But to get back on track, I have no problem with other fanbases obsessing over titles..........cause that's all that matters. There are no qualifications as to who should be able to enjoy them, or when you were born, or how they were won, or what sport they were won in. That's the beauty of sports, taking pride in your teams win or lose.
    If there is no Seahawk football in heaven, then we will never die.
    User avatar
    Sgt. Largent
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3813
    Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:10 am


  • Ad Hawk wrote:This whole argument depends largely on your perspective.

    For the casual/bandwagon fan, it seems the most important thing watching the favorite team win NOW. History is irrelevant.

    For the football fan in general, seeing great football plays , regardless of the team (to some degree).

    For the franchise and seasoned fans, wins are most important, but not always this week; the overall picture is bigger than one week. This is where the history becomes valuable, and the supposed argument that "5 rings" matters a bit. The franchise and city it's tied to are bigger than the individual players or fans, and the logo/uniform takes priority over everything else.

    My take. Flame away.


    Agreed. In example; If my Dawgs won the next 5 nattys, none of them would be more important to me than '91. They would all have the exact same value in my heart, in my head. It's about team legacy, past, current and future.

    I sincerely doubt any of us would be so quick to dismiss our 5 rings if we had them. Correct me if I'm wrong.
    User avatar
    HawkWow
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 6263
    Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:20 pm
    Location: The 5-0


  • NorCal wrote:You're sense of Niner history never ceases to amaze me. The idea that other owners pushed Eddie D out because of things that he did prior to 1994 is absurd. But please, don't let me intrude on your delusions


    I never stated DeBartolo was pushed out for spending BEFORE 1994. The owners just got pissed and created the salary cap.

    DeBartolo was pushed out because of what did IN 1994. Jerry Jones was largely behind that movement, still angry that the 49ers signed away Ken Norton Jr. with a BS contract that paid a performance bonus against the previous season (what should have counted as guaranteed money).

    I understand how that might confuse you since you've only been a 49ers fan for 2 years now. Had you actually watched football in the early 1990's, you would recall very clearly all the news about the owners trying to push DeBartolo out of the league for cheating the cap. Jerry Jones went on national TV and said in no uncertain terms that your owner was a cheat, that the contract he signed with Norton was cheating, and that the owners were looking into it.

    Then, mysteriously, DeBartolo is summoned to New York, pressured to sell the team, refuses to do so. A few years later, he's caught buying off some senator, and guess who headed up the council that forced him to give up control of the team? You guessed it - Jerry Jones.

    Of course, the last thing I expect of any 49er fan is to know anything at all about football history. Your fanbase is the most casual fairweather fanbase in the NFL, with most of your own fans not knowing a single thing about your own history.

    Like I said before, your own city laughs at 49er fans. Go to any sports bar in the Bay Area it's a running joke that a 49ers fan is a Giants fan when they're doing well, a Sharks fan when they're doing well, and a Raiders fan when they're doing well. Admit it - the last time you were a serious football fan, you were wearing a black and silver Gannon jersey and rooting for the Raiders in Superbowl 37.
    User avatar
    HansGruber
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2333
    Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:39 pm


  • It doesn't bother me teams talking about past Championships. England will always talk about the 1966 World Cup and teams like Ajax who won four European cups, Celtic with one in 1967, a lost final and several semi finals. These teams are all unlikely to win these Championships any time soon, if ever but the fact is they won them when so many big teams/countries have not.

    When the Seahawks win a championship, i'll probably hark on about it forever, no matter how good or bad the teams of the future are.
    Glasgow Seahawk
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 306
    Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:57 pm


  • The most hilarious thing? The 49ers kept on cheating the salary cap (and losing) all the way up to 2000, when it was finally proven by the league:
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/footba ... salarycap/
    http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/2- ... 766725.php

    Guess who headed up those investigations? Tom Benson of the Saints. Why would he care? Because the 49ers cheated the cap in 1994 to sign Deion Sanders (and win the last SuperBowl they would ever win), and he was pissed ever since. There was even a rumor that the investigation into DeBartolo's corruption scandal was prompted by Tom Benson getting into the ear of some very influential friends.

    DeBartolo was so hated by other owners in the NFL that they voted unanimously to take over control of the 49ers and sell the team. That was when DeBartolo finally gave the team to his family.

    What's funny is that 49ers fans aren't even aware of this stuff. I can keep posting articles all day long. Because I was actually around back then and remember all of it.

    See, many of us Seahawk fans have been fans since we were young kids. And we have always been fans. We were fans in 1992 when our team sucked worse than the Mariners. We stayed fans.

    Most Seahawk fans know a lot more about NFL history than 49er fans because unlike 49er fans, we don't change allegiances every year based on who's playing well.

    I know, I know... you really have liked the Giants forever. Well, expect for back in the 90's, when you were an Athletics fan. And somewhere in there you were a Raiders fan, so you're kinda an NFL fan, right?
    Last edited by HansGruber on Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    User avatar
    HansGruber
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2333
    Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:39 pm


  • HansGruber wrote:
    dopeboy206 wrote:
    HansGruber wrote:
    dopeboy206 wrote:Deleted due to language


    Cap went into effect in 1994 after they won and they were busted for cheating the cap. That's why the other owners kicked DeBartolo out of the club. Well, that and the criminal stuff


    What were they cheating? Just curious. I was young at the time and still in grade school so I wouldn't know.


    49ers cheated the cap to sign Deion Sanders from the Saints, Ken Norton Jr from the Cowboys, and a few other players.

    More info here:
    http://articles.philly.com/1994-09-27/s ... ken-norton

    Most old-school fans who were around back then remember it well. They had to cheat to get the ring in 1994, and it pissed off the other owners so bad that they continued to sue DeBartolo until he finally gave the team to family members.

    The 49ers were the epitome of bought and paid-for championships. They're the primary reason the salary cap was implemented (along with Dallas and Washington).

    And since the salary cap?

    JACK SQUAT. They've won nothing. There weren't even any 49er fans left in San Francisco (except for the older folks).

    That entire fanbase is a joke, and even gets laughed at in the Bay Area. Don't believe me? Go down there to a sports bar and watch what happens when one of the 49er posers talks trash to a Raiders fan. It's hilarious.


    So wait if they cheated to get Deion then they won 1 title in the salary cap era right?
    User avatar
    dopeboy206
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 566
    Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 9:47 am


  • dopeboy206 wrote:So wait if they cheated to get Deion then they won 1 title in the salary cap era right?


    Yes, they won the 1994 Superbowl, first year of the salary cap. Later proven to be cheating the cap. So not sure if that counts, since they were not playing under the cap.
    User avatar
    HansGruber
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2333
    Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:39 pm


  • I think what makes me laugh is when the Niner fans say we are 0-37 when they were 0-35. We should have had SB XL in year 28.
    Kaep vs. Seattle 1-3
    3 TD's ~ 7 INT's ~ 2 Fumbles ~ Sacked 8 times ~ QBR = 54
    User avatar
    ZorntoLargent
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 456
    Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:45 pm


  • The funny part is between Jerry and Benson is they have tried to leverage everything they could as an advantage, Jones wanting to use advertising revenue and not share merchandiseing income, Benson with the Bounty gate situation. Yet those two had created the biggest uproar over it and as you stated led commitees to oust someone that was more creative at circumvention then they were.
    Image

    To Be P/C or Not P/C That is the Question..........Seahawks kick Ass !!!!
    Check your PM's, Thank you for everything Radish RIP My Friend. :les:
    Member of the 38 club.
    User avatar
    chris98251
    .NET Hijacker
     
    Posts: 11541
    Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:52 pm
    Location: Renton Wa.


  • chris98251 wrote:The funny part is between Jerry and Benson is they have tried to leverage everything they could as an advantage, Jones wanting to use advertising revenue and not share merchandiseing income, Benson with the Bounty gate situation. Yet those two had created the biggest uproar over it and as you stated led commitees to oust someone that was more creative at circumvention then they were.


    Yeah. Tom Benson even went as far as attacking DeBartolo on a personal and business level. I read somewhere that Benson was the one that got in the feds' ears about the political corruption scandal. He was pissed off about Sanders. And then Jerry came along and signed him. It's a funny club.
    User avatar
    HansGruber
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2333
    Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:39 pm


  • MidwestHawker wrote:
    Ninerg wrote:Let's compare to another sport. Do you think Yankee fans ignore their past championships? They still take great pride in the championships that were won going back to the Babe Ruth era. They would laugh at Boston, their most heated rivals, and accuse them of being cursed since had not won any titles since they let Babe Ruth go.


    This makes them stupid. (I hate both the Red Sox and Yankees FWIW, and think that people who think that the Sox are somehow way nobler than the Yankees because they've won fewer titles are really dumb.)

    To still bask in a title won during your time as a fan is one thing. To bask in titles won before you were so much as a clump of cells is another. Do I sit around being really proud about the USA's accomplishments in the Revolutionary War? "Take that, redcoats!" That crap has nothing to do with me. Titles your team won before you were ever a fan have nothing to do with you. You can be glad, I suppose, that your team has a storied history (and yes I'm glad that the Revolution went well, as far as that goes), but to throw that in anyone else's face in the present day is just incredibly dumb and makes no sense.


    You're a weirdo. Most people pump their fists at Revolutionary War victories.
    SEAHAWKS HEADED FOR BLOODBATH
    http://cover32.com/seahawks/2014/11/19/ ... bloodbath/
    Follow me on Twitter:
    @George_OGorman
    User avatar
    Lords of Scythia
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1423
    Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:32 am


  • HansGruber wrote:I guess, for fairness, I should also mention that the only SuperBowl championship John Elway ever won was when Denver was cheating the cap as well. So it wasn't just the 49ers. The Broncos cheated the cap, and were never heard of again too.

    What are you talking about, Hans? Elway won 2 SBs--SB MVP in the second one.
    SEAHAWKS HEADED FOR BLOODBATH
    http://cover32.com/seahawks/2014/11/19/ ... bloodbath/
    Follow me on Twitter:
    @George_OGorman
    User avatar
    Lords of Scythia
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1423
    Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:32 am


  • HawkWow wrote:
    Ad Hawk wrote:This whole argument depends largely on your perspective.

    For the casual/bandwagon fan, it seems the most important thing watching the favorite team win NOW. History is irrelevant.

    For the football fan in general, seeing great football plays , regardless of the team (to some degree).

    For the franchise and seasoned fans, wins are most important, but not always this week; the overall picture is bigger than one week. This is where the history becomes valuable, and the supposed argument that "5 rings" matters a bit. The franchise and city it's tied to are bigger than the individual players or fans, and the logo/uniform takes priority over everything else.

    My take. Flame away.


    Agreed. In example; If my Dawgs won the next 5 nattys, none of them would be more important to me than '91. They would all have the exact same value in my heart, in my head. It's about team legacy, past, current and future.

    I sincerely doubt any of us would be so quick to dismiss our 5 rings if we had them. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    We got cheated in 91 having to co-champ it. What would've happened if they let us play Miami? Miami sure as hell didn't want to find out. That debacle was a huge step towards a BCS playoff. All the old guys grasping at "tradition" who run the NCAA have to die off before we can get a true playoff system in college football.
    SEAHAWKS HEADED FOR BLOODBATH
    http://cover32.com/seahawks/2014/11/19/ ... bloodbath/
    Follow me on Twitter:
    @George_OGorman
    User avatar
    Lords of Scythia
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1423
    Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:32 am


PreviousNext


It is currently Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:20 pm

Please REGISTER to become a member

Return to [ THE SPORTS BAR ]




Information
  • Who is online