Tension in the Mariners front office

Discuss any and all sports-related topics. From the College Sports to Baseball and everything in between. RATING: PG-13
Tension in the Mariners front office
Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:27 pm

Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:46 pm
  • I think you could re title this to something like "mariners front office has giant dump taken on them night before winter meets and should probably all quit." But I guess it's wordy and could be further shortened if in the shack.

    Great piece by Baker and just this morning I was happy to discover he moved off the mariners blog since he usually annoys the hell out of me but this here is some serious journalism. He got a lot names connected to a lot quotes and I bet Armstrong is glad he's retiring now.

    This puts big pressure on the organization going into winter meetings and could hurt them. If we're really lucky maybe the absentee ownership axes them. Well I guess you can't do i at this moment maybe. But its fun to think about and I supported Z for quite while past most people. Interested to see the response and wonder how a certain 2B feels. Well probably pretty good for 240 million reasons.
    User avatar
    JKent82
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3009
    Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 12:13 pm


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:48 pm
  • WOW great read. Jack Z is an idiot. I wounder what Griffey says about him.
    GO HAWKS
    425HawkSpark
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 662
    Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:45 pm
    Location: Seattle


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:55 pm
  • I wonder how such a classy, well run organization could possibly have 12 straight playoff missing years? That's a head scratcher.
    35!
    AHH-OOH!
    User avatar
    KK84
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 842
    Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:01 pm
    Location: Bensalem, PA


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:33 pm
  • Ugh, they're like the Tampa Bay Bucs of the MLB but instead of the coach that's the problem, it's the entire front office.

    As much as I like Nintendo, I wish they would give the team to someone who cares about the city and would run the organization well. Not surprised with all this considering how they screwed the return of the Sonics. Just give the team to Chris Hansen.
    20% off Karmaloop & 10% off PLNDR, rep code: DUCK20
    User avatar
    dontbelikethat
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2295
    Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:40 pm


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:43 pm
  • Wow. Best article I have read in a long time. If this was in the shack I could go on and on. :229031_banghead:
    86Hawk
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 271
    Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:23 pm
    Location: Washington


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:08 pm
  • Disturbing article to say the least. Thank God for football, seahawks look unstoppable and the Huskies just made a huge upgrade with their new Head Coach.
    User avatar
    haroldseattle
    NET Bench Warmer
     
    Posts: 43
    Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:28 pm


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:11 am
  • All I gotta say is, does this news really surprise anyone? I mean it has seemed pretty clear for the last few years that there has been dysfunction in the M's FO.
    Image
    User avatar
    Blitzer88
    * NET Eeyore *
     
    Posts: 11191
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:47 am
    Location: Pasco, WA


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:01 am
  • Blitzer88 wrote:All I gotta say is, does this news really surprise anyone? I mean it has seemed pretty clear for the last few years that there has been dysfunction in the M's FO.

    When I still lived in Washington back before 2006 as a part of a class I took for a Management degree I talked with Lincoln and Armstrong in person....they are the exact reason I hope baseball dies and the reason I no longer care about the Mariners. Until Lincoln is out it won't matter what the Mariners do he's like Jerry Jones and the Cowboys.
    43-8...it's all about that action boss....
    next man up.
    User avatar
    MizzouHawkGal
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 7833
    Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:46 pm
    Location: Kansas City, MO


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:39 am
  • Well not a surprise, just supports everyones thoughts, only thing thats a bit of an eye opener is how Jerry Jones they are about feeling they can beat up on people emotionally and verbally.
    Image

    To Be P/C or Not P/C That is the Question..........Seahawks kick Ass !!!!
    Check your PM's, Thank you for everything Radish RIP My Friend. :les:
    Member of the 38 club.
    User avatar
    chris98251
    .NET Hijacker
     
    Posts: 11242
    Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:52 pm
    Location: Renton Wa.


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:51 am
  • Jesus Christ, now the Cano deal looks like desperation.
    Image
    3elieve
    User avatar
    Throwdown
    * NET Baller *
     
    Posts: 19215
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:02 am
    Location: Graham, WA


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:05 am
  • Throwdown wrote:Jesus Christ, now the Cano deal looks like desperation.

    It's my primary thought but they still have time to make other moves to get another premier hitter hopefully right handed then you may intrigue me.
    43-8...it's all about that action boss....
    next man up.
    User avatar
    MizzouHawkGal
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 7833
    Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:46 pm
    Location: Kansas City, MO


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:43 am
  • All 3 of these idiots need to go asap, they have ruined baseball in Seattle.
    User avatar
    getnasty
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 923
    Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:22 pm


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:54 am
  • getnasty wrote:All 3 of these idiots need to go asap, they have ruined baseball in Seattle.


    We have to remember that Armstrong and Lincoln were here for the ARod-Griffey-Buhner-Martinez years. They rebuilt the team with Ichiro and won a record number of games. Inexplicably they were unable to adapt moving forward after such a tremendous job from 1991-2004 (easily our best ever "era" of baseball)

    They are entrenched in a certain way of doing things (one that is passing them by...but you can see how a Cano is exactly the player they think solves everything... They just need 3 of them).

    Armstrong is gone. Hopefully this article wakes ownership to a need for more change.
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5097
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:08 am
  • Assuming Baker is correct it sounds as if Z is as phony as a 3 dollar bill. They Ms to have a good team it starts at the top. The owners need to clean house ASAP.
    User avatar
    Happypuppy
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1890
    Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:40 pm


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:47 am
  • Happypuppy wrote:Assuming Baker is correct it sounds as if Z is as phony as a 3 dollar bill. They Ms to have a good team it starts at the top. The owners need to clean house ASAP.

    The "ownership" is a corporation. The only thing they're going to do is have a committee look at the profit & loss statement and if it looks acceptable then they won't do a damn thing.
    Image
    You are absolutely entitled to state your opinion whenever you wish, and I am absolutely entitled to point out the stupidity of that opinion with the same frequency.
    User avatar
    SeatownJay
    * NET Staff Alumni *
    * NET Staff Alumni *
     
    Posts: 6522
    Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:38 pm
    Location: Hagerstown, MD


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:56 am
  • I have found that the longer the streak of mediocrity and losing lasts, the higher up the food chain one has to go to root out the problem.

    I once thought Z might be the answer. It now seems obvious he's at the root of the problem. If 'ownership' lets him continue in charge it says what they think about the Mariners.
    Talent can get you to the playoffs.
    It takes character to win when you get there.

    SUPER BOWL XLVIII CHAMPIONS
    User avatar
    sutz
    USMC 1970-77
     
    Posts: 10239
    Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:41 am
    Location: Monroe, WA


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:57 am
  • SeatownJay wrote:
    Happypuppy wrote:Assuming Baker is correct it sounds as if Z is as phony as a 3 dollar bill. They Ms to have a good team it starts at the top. The owners need to clean house ASAP.

    The "ownership" is a corporation. The only thing they're going to do is have a committee look at the profit & loss statement and if it looks acceptable then they won't do a damn thing.


    An ownership that just invested 240 million in a player isn't sitting around.

    This club is at its tipping point (which is why I'm excited about Cano). No matter what Armstrong and Jack Z are now in a spotlight. No hiding... Even if it works they may (probably) won't be around to celebrate it
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5097
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:12 am
  • I believe that most of this is true. There is smoke here about, for example, the shift to acquiring players that hit dingers. Also, Chuck and Howard have long been incompetent in GM and managerial hires.

    And the sheer number of screwups in the Josh Lueke mold set a pattern of inability to properly GM for Jack Z.
    "If given the opportunity without fear of incarceration, I would honestly beat the living **** out of Jerry Rice."

    --Internet tough guy HawkWow being a MAN on the internet
    User avatar
    Smelly McUgly
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3754
    Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:30 pm
    Location: God's Country AKA Cascadia AKA The Pacific Northwest


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:12 am
  • Smelly McUgly wrote:I believe that most of this is true. There is smoke here about, for example, the shift to acquiring players that hit dingers. Also, Chuck and Howard have long been incompetent in GM and managerial hires.

    And the sheer number of screwups in the Josh Lueke mold set a pattern of inability to properly GM for Jack Z.



    Its not a shift...these guys ran the team when we had 3 guys of 30+ and led the lead in homers (Tino junior and bones..with Edgar close)...they were running the show when we won 116. They bought Sexson and Beltre. The last ten years have been about diminishing return. Last three years about trusting the kids (and failing to offer appropriate support)

    They like big hitting and pitching. Theyve tried to get a big hitter in here for three years and Now they have.

    Key will be what's next. I'd love to see them gone. But let's not be so forgetful of who these guys are

    Seriously Ms fans...
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5097
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:42 am
  • If I'm not mistaken Howard Lincoln wasn't in the position of power that he current holds, until 2001ish......
    SEATTLE SEAHAWKS SUPERBOWL XLVIII CHAMPIONS!

    May the spirit of our friend The Radish live on forever!
    User avatar
    Sports Hernia
    NET Pro Bowler
     
    Posts: 11939
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:36 pm
    Location: Lombardi Land


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:01 pm
  • Pat Gillick and Lou got us those wins, Lou and Pat had historic clashes with Armstrong and Lincoln but winning kept a lot under wraps, Pat and Lou both left becasue of Lincoln and Armstrong.
    Image

    To Be P/C or Not P/C That is the Question..........Seahawks kick Ass !!!!
    Check your PM's, Thank you for everything Radish RIP My Friend. :les:
    Member of the 38 club.
    User avatar
    chris98251
    .NET Hijacker
     
    Posts: 11242
    Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:52 pm
    Location: Renton Wa.


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:09 pm
  • Sports Hernia wrote:If I'm not mistaken Howard Lincoln wasn't in the position of power that he current holds, until 2001ish......


    He and Armstrong have pretty much run the show since 1993... I think he became ultimate leader in 2003?
    Last edited by Uncle Si on Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5097
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:11 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:Pat Gillick and Lou got us those wins, Lou and Pat had historic clashes with Armstrong and Lincoln but winning kept a lot under wraps, Pat and Lou both left becasue of Lincoln and Armstrong.


    Its not about who got the wins. Trust me I'm not trying to give them any credit. (Those clashes being Lou never feeling he had enough hitting to win)

    I'm saying their experiences in management are deep in the big hitter-ace pitcher mentality because of those successes

    Thus a Cano-Ibanez-Morales/King-Iwa-Price team is their perfect scenario
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5097
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:57 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:If I'm not mistaken Howard Lincoln wasn't in the position of power that he current holds, until 2001ish......


    He and Armstrong have pretty much run the show since 1993... I think he became ultimate leader in 2003?


    Yes. He retired from running Nintendo of America around the release of the Gamecube in the US. I always admired him as the CEO of NOA--took his directives from Japan well but still saw how unique the US market was and made the right moves in the video game business.

    Just goes to show that being a good leader in one field doesn't mean you can do the same in another.
    _________________
    "I can deal with Kap looking/acting like a douchebag so long as he wins. You can't be a douche AND a loser, Kap. Get your ---- together, a-hole."

    .....................................................................................-Webzone Niner fan GhostOfJimmyDean
    User avatar
    Trenchbroom
    *SILVER SUPPORTER*
    *SILVER SUPPORTER*
     
    Posts: 1917
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:47 am
    Location: Spokangeles


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:51 pm
  • shouldnt be a surprise at all. fans have been calling for howie and chucky to step down for years now
    Infamous425
    NET Bench Warmer
     
    Posts: 17
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:23 pm


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:27 am
  • This is an awesome expose.
    Jack's moves have reeked of old baseball thinking combined with desperation. The M's have rushed players to the bigs, then punished those same players for not producing. The ignoring of advanced metrics while in the same division as the A's is such a contrast in thinking.
    SEAHAWKS.NET. We All We Got, We All We Need
    User avatar
    Scottemojo
    *Scott of Smacksville*
    *Scott of Smacksville*
     
    Posts: 11262
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:14 am


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:55 am
  • Scottemojo wrote:This is an awesome expose.
    Jack's moves have reeked of old baseball thinking combined with desperation. The M's have rushed players to the bigs, then punished those same players for not producing. The ignoring of advanced metrics while in the same division as the A's is such a contrast in thinking.


    Excellent post. It is the best piece of Sports investigative journalism in a long time in our area. Remember" in Jack we trust" ?

    I would not sign anyone else until first we get the best GM we can so we don't get saddled with a bunch of bad deals.
    User avatar
    Happypuppy
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1890
    Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:40 pm


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:01 am
  • Happypuppy wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:This is an awesome expose.
    Jack's moves have reeked of old baseball thinking combined with desperation. The M's have rushed players to the bigs, then punished those same players for not producing. The ignoring of advanced metrics while in the same division as the A's is such a contrast in thinking.


    Excellent post. It is the best piece of Sports investigative journalism in a long time in our area. Remember" in Jack we trust" ?

    I would not sign anyone else until first we get the best GM we can so we don't get saddled with a bunch of bad deals.



    A contrast that the Rangers and Angels have used to get to World Series...(just saying advanced metrics has its place in different organizations, and very rarely is it used to win championships)

    I'm all for change, and running an organization like the A's (or Rays, or even the Cardinals). But we just committed to 240$ (million) in one player. As much as we want change in Jack Z, he is doing the bidding of Lincoln, who is going nowhere. Do we really want that change now?

    The team needs atleast 2 more additions to compliment Cano.
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5097
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:37 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:

    A contrast that the Rangers and Angels have used to get to World Series...(just saying advanced metrics has its place in different organizations, and very rarely is it used to win championships)

    I'm all for change, and running an organization like the A's (or Rays, or even the Cardinals). But we just committed to 240$ (million) in one player. As much as we want change in Jack Z, he is doing the bidding of Lincoln, who is going nowhere. Do we really want that change now?

    The team needs atleast 2 more additions to compliment Cano.



    How about this. If it does not show incompetence I do not not what does.

    "By mid-day Friday, Seattle had heard that some team bid nine years and $225 million for Robinson Cano, so the Mariners upped their bid to $240 million and 10 years before apparently realizing the initial bid had come from themselves, too."

    http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/texas- ... urking.ece
    User avatar
    Happypuppy
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1890
    Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:40 pm


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:08 pm
  • Happypuppy wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:

    A contrast that the Rangers and Angels have used to get to World Series...(just saying advanced metrics has its place in different organizations, and very rarely is it used to win championships)

    I'm all for change, and running an organization like the A's (or Rays, or even the Cardinals). But we just committed to 240$ (million) in one player. As much as we want change in Jack Z, he is doing the bidding of Lincoln, who is going nowhere. Do we really want that change now?

    The team needs atleast 2 more additions to compliment Cano.



    How about this. If it does not show incompetence I do not not what does.

    "By mid-day Friday, Seattle had heard that some team bid nine years and $225 million for Robinson Cano, so the Mariners upped their bid to $240 million and 10 years before apparently realizing the initial bid had come from themselves, too."

    http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/texas- ... urking.ece



    there's no question of the incompetence. there is two decades of frustration thats easily trackable. why is every attempt to find some sort of rationality in all this somehow defending these two... its just not.

    we've married ourselves to Cano. Like it or not. I've been hoping for a change at the top since Lou was tossing bases in the Kingdome. But we are here, as an organization.

    given that, do we really want to wholesale change right before the winter meetings? this is not a rhetorical question... i'm really asking.
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5097
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:12 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Happypuppy wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:This is an awesome expose.
    Jack's moves have reeked of old baseball thinking combined with desperation. The M's have rushed players to the bigs, then punished those same players for not producing. The ignoring of advanced metrics while in the same division as the A's is such a contrast in thinking.


    Excellent post. It is the best piece of Sports investigative journalism in a long time in our area. Remember" in Jack we trust" ?

    I would not sign anyone else until first we get the best GM we can so we don't get saddled with a bunch of bad deals.



    A contrast that the Rangers and Angels have used to get to World Series...(just saying advanced metrics has its place in different organizations, and very rarely is it used to win championships)

    I'm all for change, and running an organization like the A's (or Rays, or even the Cardinals). But we just committed to 240$ (million) in one player. As much as we want change in Jack Z, he is doing the bidding of Lincoln, who is going nowhere. Do we really want that change now?


    The team needs atleast 2 more additions to compliment Cano.


    I thought they needed 2 RH bats more than anything. Cano does nothing to change that.

    Personally, I think it is a mistake to assume advanced metrics is exclusive to low payroll. Boston, anyone?
    But far beyond those philisophical directions, if it's true that Seattle has a culture of no dissension from the lower ranks combined with a couple of guys who micromanage the manager, there will NEVER be success in Seattle.

    The Cano signing isn't the mistake, it's just a single piece of evidence that these guys are idiots. If they actually did outbid themselves, it takes on a whole new layer of ineptitude, because that would be a mistake made exclusively out of fear.
    SEAHAWKS.NET. We All We Got, We All We Need
    User avatar
    Scottemojo
    *Scott of Smacksville*
    *Scott of Smacksville*
     
    Posts: 11262
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:14 am


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:23 pm
  • Scottemojo wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    Happypuppy wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:This is an awesome expose.
    Jack's moves have reeked of old baseball thinking combined with desperation. The M's have rushed players to the bigs, then punished those same players for not producing. The ignoring of advanced metrics while in the same division as the A's is such a contrast in thinking.


    Excellent post. It is the best piece of Sports investigative journalism in a long time in our area. Remember" in Jack we trust" ?

    I would not sign anyone else until first we get the best GM we can so we don't get saddled with a bunch of bad deals.



    A contrast that the Rangers and Angels have used to get to World Series...(just saying advanced metrics has its place in different organizations, and very rarely is it used to win championships)

    I'm all for change, and running an organization like the A's (or Rays, or even the Cardinals). But we just committed to 240$ (million) in one player. As much as we want change in Jack Z, he is doing the bidding of Lincoln, who is going nowhere. Do we really want that change now?


    The team needs atleast 2 more additions to compliment Cano.


    I thought they needed 2 RH bats more than anything. Cano does nothing to change that.

    Personally, I think it is a mistake to assume advanced metrics is exclusive to low payroll. Boston, anyone?
    But far beyond those philisophical directions, if it's true that Seattle has a culture of no dissension from the lower ranks combined with a couple of guys who micromanage the manager, there will NEVER be success in Seattle.

    The Cano signing isn't the mistake, it's just a single piece of evidence that these guys are idiots. If they actually did outbid themselves, it takes on a whole new layer of ineptitude, because that would be a mistake made exclusively out of fear.



    I get why outbidding yourself is a mistake... but why is signing the top free agent in the MLB sign they are idiots?

    Again, i'm just trying to round this conversation out. Cano is a Mariner. whats next?
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5097
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:48 pm
  • We are the Washington Redskins of the MLB with even less success. Just a straight up incompetent organization. I want to like the Ms, but I can't look at them with anything but slight disdain after their very public opposition to the Seattle basketball arena. I can't truly like this team until the current leadership is completely eradicated.

    I read the article, and there's nothing about it that surprised me.
    User avatar
    DavidSeven
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3921
    Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:15 am


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:52 pm
  • It doesn't mean they are idiots. To my eye, it means they are desperate. If they accidentally outbid themselves, then they are idiots.

    But mostly, it just appears that intellectual dishonest, and in the case of the guy accused of rape, actual dishonesty, is part of the way they do business. So thinking that the Cano move may be undone by some other crappy move is both kneejerk, but still likely accurate.
    SEAHAWKS.NET. We All We Got, We All We Need
    User avatar
    Scottemojo
    *Scott of Smacksville*
    *Scott of Smacksville*
     
    Posts: 11262
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:14 am


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:08 pm
  • Scottemojo wrote:It doesn't mean they are idiots. To my eye, it means they are desperate. If they accidentally outbid themselves, then they are idiots.

    But mostly, it just appears that intellectual dishonest, and in the case of the guy accused of rape, actual dishonesty, is part of the way they do business. So thinking that the Cano move may be undone by some other crappy move is both kneejerk, but still likely accurate.


    No argument from me... And the desperation started with their attempts to sign Fielder

    I guess I'm just all in on this because.... Well really what choice is there. It either blows up in our face and the end of Jack Z and Lincoln follow...or it works and we start winning games.

    But like a long boring poker game, at least now its all in
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5097
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:10 pm
  • This piece should have been written a few years earlier. I rememeber when Baker and USSM were going back and forth and it seemed Baker was more interested in maintaining access to the program over hard hitting journalism. I am pleased that he published this at all though.
    |~=[==~||~==]=~|
    ||Tfs LnD ] [ HAWKS||
    RIP BFS. He was kind of a douche, but he was our kind of a douche.
    User avatar
    ClumsyLurk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1702
    Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:08 pm


Tension in the Mariners front office
Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:08 pm
  • Cano is a piece but I am not that keen on the Price rumors if true. The cost I am hearing us steep. We lost some good players last time for an arm.

    We can move Franklin and we have a log jam at first with Smoak and Montero. Maybe package both for a out fielder.

    I hate to give up in Ackerly but he is not an outfielder. He is a pretty decent infielder. We could keep franklin and move him if a good deal was to be had.
    User avatar
    Happypuppy
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1890
    Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:40 pm


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:37 pm
  • The Cano move is to little to late. Mariners should have signed Fielder a couple of years ago, instead of trading for Montero. The Cano deal had to be done for PR reasons, need to get those butts in the seats. The whole article just shows what a mess the front office is IMO and should of been reported years ago.

    Anyone know of a good Mariner forum?
    User avatar
    haroldseattle
    NET Bench Warmer
     
    Posts: 43
    Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:28 pm


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:43 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Smelly McUgly wrote:I believe that most of this is true. There is smoke here about, for example, the shift to acquiring players that hit dingers. Also, Chuck and Howard have long been incompetent in GM and managerial hires.

    And the sheer number of screwups in the Josh Lueke mold set a pattern of inability to properly GM for Jack Z.



    Its not a shift...these guys ran the team when we had 3 guys of 30+ and led the lead in homers (Tino junior and bones..with Edgar close)...they were running the show when we won 116. They bought Sexson and Beltre. The last ten years have been about diminishing return. Last three years about trusting the kids (and failing to offer appropriate support)

    They like big hitting and pitching. They've tried to get a big hitter in here for three years and Now they have.

    Key will be what's next. I'd love to see them gone. But let's not be so forgetful of who these guys are

    Seriously Ms fans...


    They have been trying to get a big hitter on the cheap. Should have pony up for Fielder rather then trade for Montero. Now they are desperate and go all out on the wrong player. The Cano deal is going to bite the Mariners in the butt, without a doubt.
    User avatar
    haroldseattle
    NET Bench Warmer
     
    Posts: 43
    Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:28 pm


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:45 pm
  • haroldseattle wrote:The Cano move is to little to late. Mariners should have signed Fielder a couple of years ago, instead of trading for Montero. The Cano deal had to be done for PR reasons, need to get those butts in the seats. The whole article just shows what a mess the front office is IMO and should of been reported years ago.

    Anyone know of a good Mariner forum?

    Try Mariner Central.
    43-8...it's all about that action boss....
    next man up.
    User avatar
    MizzouHawkGal
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 7833
    Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:46 pm
    Location: Kansas City, MO


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:35 pm

Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:56 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:If I'm not mistaken Howard Lincoln wasn't in the position of power that he current holds, until 2001ish......


    He and Armstrong have pretty much run the show since 1993... I think he became ultimate leader in 2003?


    Could be, I could be a year or 2 off when took over the CEO type position.
    SEATTLE SEAHAWKS SUPERBOWL XLVIII CHAMPIONS!

    May the spirit of our friend The Radish live on forever!
    User avatar
    Sports Hernia
    NET Pro Bowler
     
    Posts: 11939
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:36 pm
    Location: Lombardi Land


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:01 am
  • "In Jack we trust." Boy do I feel like an idiot. He sure seemed like he had all the right ideas upon initial hire. I'm happy for Wedge - seemed like a humble guy in a bad spot trying to do right by his players.
    "The problem with the internet is, that one can never trust the authenticity of a source." - Abraham Lincoln
    User avatar
    Hawker
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 288
    Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:59 pm
    Location: Pewyallup


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:27 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:It doesn't mean they are idiots. To my eye, it means they are desperate. If they accidentally outbid themselves, then they are idiots.

    But mostly, it just appears that intellectual dishonest, and in the case of the guy accused of rape, actual dishonesty, is part of the way they do business. So thinking that the Cano move may be undone by some other crappy move is both kneejerk, but still likely accurate.


    I guess I'm just all in on this because.... Well really what choice is there. It either blows up in our face and the end of Jack Z and Lincoln follow...or it works and we start winning games.


    If poor personnel moves and losing would've gotten Howard and Chuck fired, they'd have been gone years ago.

    As for change right now, absolutely. If not properly managed (ie not getting more pieces), the Cano deal won't be enough now and will be an anchor around our necks down the road. Do we really want to give these guys more time to offer deals that will hamstring the a competent FO (if/when we ever get one)?
    Sarlacc, on comparing .NET to Soccer: And why not? It's a bunch of people running around in circles, feigning pain, and never scoring.
    Snohomie
    * NET Draft Guru *
     
    Posts: 3592
    Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:06 pm
    Location: Bellingham, WA


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:29 am
  • Question.. Who fires Howard?
    Image
    User avatar
    Tech Worlds
    * Capt'n Dom *
    * Capt'n Dom *
     
    Posts: 9712
    Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:40 am
    Location: Granite Falls, WA


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:00 am
  • Tech Worlds wrote:Question.. Who fires Howard?



    He's the CEO and (perhaps) majority owner of Nintendo. I believe owner who recently died had taken his majority stakes and handed them over in 2004.

    Howard only goes if there is a major change at Nintendo, the Ms are sold, or he retires/passes on
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5097
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:21 am
  • The suggestions and involvement by Lincoln and Armstrong by themselves don't necessarily constitute meddling. They demonstrate a desire to win at some level. But if you feel your manager is doing so poorly and missing so many of these obvious suggestions, then you probably hired the wrong guy and that's still on you.

    Or (and this is sure what it sounds like was going on) the reason for incessant suggestions is that you've hired a crap GM who builds a farm system full of young guys not one of whom pop at the major league level, you haven't wanted to expand payroll so you can get proven players in to ease the young players in or increase their success, and so basically you've asked your manager to do the impossible, it's not working, and you somehow think the answer is to pester him to death with suggestions that amount to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

    Jack Z is no great shakes and that has been plenty obvious. The rest of the stuff about him throwing guys under the bus...eh...I mean it's interesting but the main thing to me is that he sucks at his job and needs to go.

    As far as the Cano deal goes, yeah it's probably a desperation move but that doesn't mean I poo on it. ALL of these crazy deals become albatrosses down the road so that doesn't disqualify it. Cano is a legit superstar we overpaid like we have to do to get guys to Seattle, so what. We weren't spending anything anyways. The offense will be better. If they open the wallet again out of desperation and get another bat or two the offense might even be decent. I would definitely rather it not be Jack Z pulling the trigger on the deals but we can evaluate them as they happen.
    hawk45
    *GOLD SUPPORTER*
    *GOLD SUPPORTER*
     
    Posts: 5252
    Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:08 pm


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:56 am
  • ...and people still bother to support this "team".

    Maybe they should take a look across the street and take a page from the 'hawks book on how to run a quality organization. I couldn't care less about this team, and won't until they blow everything up and start from scratch (excluding players that bust their ass for the city/fans).

    My M's hate is still sitting on the rack, collecting dust, and hasn't been touched in a few years. I can't wait to actually wear it (I love the hat), but I can in no way support the bullshit that is the Seattle Mariners. I'll go to High School games down the street and gladly spend my money to support those kids. Plus it never hurts to get out of the house and watch crazy parents do their thing.
    Image

    Go Hawks.
    User avatar
    SouthSoundHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2210
    Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:06 am


Re: Tension in the Mariners front office
Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:26 am
  • SouthSoundHawk wrote:My M's hate is still sitting on the rack, collecting dust, and hasn't been touched in a few years.

    Interesting typo there, or was it.....

    ;)
    Talent can get you to the playoffs.
    It takes character to win when you get there.

    SUPER BOWL XLVIII CHAMPIONS
    User avatar
    sutz
    USMC 1970-77
     
    Posts: 10239
    Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:41 am
    Location: Monroe, WA


Next


It is currently Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:55 am

Please REGISTER to become a member

Return to [ THE SPORTS BAR ]




Information
  • Who is online
  • Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests