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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:12 pm 
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I'd rather keep Walker and sign Ubaldo Jimenez. There is a drop off of talent from Price, but that would solve 2 rotation spots instead of one and we control Walker for a long time. Price would be gone after 2 years as a free agent (no way they pay him and Felix beyond those 2 years).

Trade Franklin and parts for another bat.

That's my preference.

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Last edited by HawkFan72 on Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:14 pm 
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Cano alone will not make the M's a contender, this deal makes no sense if they don't grab a few more pieces. I wonder what there going to do with Franklin, hopefully a move to the outfield.


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:23 pm 
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Smelly McUgly wrote:
chris98251 wrote:
Well it's not our money, what people get pissed about is when they can't resign good players because of over extending themselves on contracts for player that are not contributing. Cano at 39 won't be swinging the bat as well as he is now and still be tieing up salary, say we have a stud 3rd baseman and we let him go to someplace else due to money. Thats what pisses off fanbases.


Exactly. I have never understood the "Well, it's not your money" argument. We care because a bad contract restricts a team's opportunities to get better down the road by taking up the budget. It's not hard to understand, folks.


Restricts all the team opportunities ans financial flexibility that they've so dutifully taken advantage of in past years?

The point is that its not your money and the idea of saving money and making financially responsible decisions that moderately improve the present while protecting the future have gotten this team nowhere.

Seriously what Mariners fan is concerned about our financial future after the last decade we've been through? What are we saving up for?


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:38 pm 
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Schultz and Lincoln did this DAMN THEM !!!!! :D

I wonder which of the 3 would be best suited to play the outfield between, Miller, Franklin and Seager? How good of a glove is Cano? could he be better suited to DH or maybe 1b?

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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:07 pm 
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m0ng0 wrote:
Schultz and Lincoln did this DAMN THEM !!!!! :D

I wonder which of the 3 would be best suited to play the outfield between, Miller, Franklin and Seager? How good of a glove is Cano? could he be better suited to DH or maybe 1b?


Well Lincoln is retiring in a month, so he didn't care if the Mariners gave Cano a 50 year contract. He doesn't have to deal with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:02 pm 
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What is with people and this whole "well we signed this player, so that means we will lose out on other players in the future" thing. Until it actually happens, it's all speculative. Enjoy the moment folks, worry about 5 years from now in 5 years


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:57 pm 
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amill87 wrote:
What is with people and this whole "well we signed this player, so that means we will lose out on other players in the future" thing. Until it actually happens, it's all speculative. Enjoy the moment folks, worry about 5 years from now in 5 years


Because in the moment thinking is what gets you over your budget, it doesn't plan for the stars coming up and yet to show you what they can do. We have seen the historical rammifications of this several times. If you ignore those outcomes then your doomed to repeat and have the same consequences.

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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:00 am 
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I know I should hate the idea of trading Walker, but then I remember Michael Pineda. Even really nice prospects still have to prove they can stay healthy with MLB workloads. Seattle tried to trade Walker + Franklin for a very good outfielder last offseason and just missed out. In terms of WAR, Price is basically just as good as said outfielder, though he'd have less team control.

Deep down in my heart I know that the Cano move is more bad than good, and I know the a Price trade is probably a bad idea long term. But if Seattle adds both Cano and Price, you are talking about by far the best 1-3 rotation in baseball, maybe one of the best 1-3's in baseball history, and you are also talking about a 10-12 WAR boost to a team that has had a 75 win baseline the last few years. That alone won't get them to the playoffs, but if they make a few nice moves around two with the remaining resources and then have a few pleasant surprises next season from the younger core, you are looking at a well rounded, 85-95 win team. And if they make the playoffs with a rotation like that, I really like their chances.

I'm not going overboard here, the Mariners probably won't be world champs any time soon and making the playoffs is still going to be hard, but at least the Mariners have some hope now, and at least there will be actual intrigue over a Mariner's season for the first time in about four years.

I just wish Cano played the outfield. Seattle has a bunch of 4th and 5th outfielder types, which is how guys like Ibanez and even Mike Morse got so much time in the corners last season.


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:44 am 
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How good does this look?


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:27 am 
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kearly wrote:
I know I should hate the idea of trading Walker, but then I remember Michael Pineda. Even really nice prospects still have to prove they can stay healthy with MLB workloads. Seattle tried to trade Walker + Franklin for a very good outfielder last offseason and just missed out. In terms of WAR, Price is basically just as good as said outfielder, though he'd have less team control.

Deep down in my heart I know that the Cano move is more bad than good, and I know the a Price trade is probably a bad idea long term. But if Seattle adds both Cano and Price, you are talking about by far the best 1-3 rotation in baseball, maybe one of the best 1-3's in baseball history, and you are also talking about a 10-12 WAR boost to a team that has had a 75 win baseline the last few years. That alone won't get them to the playoffs, but if they make a few nice moves around two with the remaining resources and then have a few pleasant surprises next season from the younger core, you are looking at a well rounded, 85-95 win team. And if they make the playoffs with a rotation like that, I really like their chances.

I'm not going overboard here, the Mariners probably won't be world champs any time soon and making the playoffs is still going to be hard, but at least the Mariners have some hope now, and at least there will be actual intrigue over a Mariner's season for the first time in about four years.

I just wish Cano played the outfield. Seattle has a bunch of 4th and 5th outfielder types, which is how guys like Ibanez and even Mike Morse got so much time in the corners last season.

I think my biggest problem with it is that at a moment when the Mariners are already a left dominated lineup, and desperate for right handed hitting, they spent the bulk of their capital on a lefty who WILL be pitched around if they don't cover him on both sides.

And in 5 years they better start sending him to see caribbean doctors in the winter. wink wink.

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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:19 am 
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If be more worried about the amount of years and the no trade clause as a Mariners fan. As a yankees fan though, I'm kind of glad he went somewhere else for that much money for that many years, it would be A-rod all over again probably


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:33 am 
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kearly wrote:
Deep down in my heart I know that the Cano move is more bad than good, and I know the a Price trade is probably a bad idea long term. But if Seattle adds both Cano and Price, you are talking about by far the best 1-3 rotation in baseball, maybe one of the best 1-3's in baseball history,


2 Cy Young winners and a top 3 finalist as your 1-2-3. then mix it walker/paxton and possibly Erasmo Ramiriez or Danny Hultzen? WOW !!! I hope we can pick up a bit more offense and things are looking good for next year!

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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:43 am 
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10 year deal for a dude over 30.

Smart.

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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:06 am 
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chris98251 wrote:
amill87 wrote:
What is with people and this whole "well we signed this player, so that means we will lose out on other players in the future" thing. Until it actually happens, it's all speculative. Enjoy the moment folks, worry about 5 years from now in 5 years


Because in the moment thinking is what gets you over your budget, it doesn't plan for the stars coming up and yet to show you what they can do. We have seen the historical rammifications of this several times. If you ignore those outcomes then your doomed to repeat and have the same consequences.


You're right. We shouldn't spend any money because in the future it might effect us negatively. We should just stick with commercials telling us to be patient while the guys we draft finally develop into stars. That's the way to do it.

Everyone knows the Mariners overpaid. But they had to. They have been garbage because they have been trying to develop internal talent over the past couple years. This is a move that shows players and agents that the Mariners are willing to pay for talent and that's half the battle at drawing in players. The other part is winning. If they can move into the 80 win category it moves them a little closer and players will view them a little better. Than you can get a few more players and get some more wins and just keep that ball rolling.

The Mariners are in a bad place and the only way to turn this around isn't to wait 5 more years for draft picks to be ready


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:11 am 
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Probably funded by Chris Hansen . . . "Hey guys, stop hating on this sonics deal and I will attempt to make you relevant in someway"

I don't really like baseball, but at least this move was interesting. That first big move out of the gutter is always expensive. I might even keep an eye on things. Good for the Ms.


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:47 am 
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Tech Worlds wrote:
10 year deal for a dude over 30.

Smart.


There's no such thing as smart in free agent baseball... Not really a new thing


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:54 am 
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chris98251 wrote:
amill87 wrote:
What is with people and this whole "well we signed this player, so that means we will lose out on other players in the future" thing. Until it actually happens, it's all speculative. Enjoy the moment folks, worry about 5 years from now in 5 years


Because in the moment thinking is what gets you over your budget, it doesn't plan for the stars coming up and yet to show you what they can do. We have seen the historical rammifications of this several times. If you ignore those outcomes then your doomed to repeat and have the same consequences.

I guess I didn't realize we have budgetary responsibility. I'll be damned, I thought we were all just fans.

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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:01 pm 
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Uncle Si wrote:
Smelly McUgly wrote:
chris98251 wrote:
Well it's not our money, what people get pissed about is when they can't resign good players because of over extending themselves on contracts for player that are not contributing. Cano at 39 won't be swinging the bat as well as he is now and still be tieing up salary, say we have a stud 3rd baseman and we let him go to someplace else due to money. Thats what pisses off fanbases.


Exactly. I have never understood the "Well, it's not your money" argument. We care because a bad contract restricts a team's opportunities to get better down the road by taking up the budget. It's not hard to understand, folks.


Restricts all the team opportunities ans financial flexibility that they've so dutifully taken advantage of in past years?

The point is that its not your money and the idea of saving money and making financially responsible decisions that moderately improve the present while protecting the future have gotten this team nowhere.

Seriously what Mariners fan is concerned about our financial future after the last decade we've been through? What are we saving up for?


Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. However, I do get that the other side is concerned that the Ms won't just slash payroll if this doesn't work out in two or three years and we end up with a +1.8 WAR Cano at age 37 and a bunch of nothing besides because Cano is making 24M. I think that it's a valid concern.

Personally, as you said later down the thread, this is FA in baseball. Our guys can't draft and develop like the Rays do, so we're going to have to spend or just be mediocre forever. Right now, this team just got five wins better, so I can live with what might happen in the future.

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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:27 pm 
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Throwdown wrote:
How good does this look?


This picture made me realize how The M's got Cano to finalize the deal.

Jack Z: "And if you sign with us, you don't have to shave everyday like on the Yankees. You can keep your facial hair."

Cano: "Where do I sign?"

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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:44 pm 
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A bit desperate but at least it's something but they need AT least one more heavy bat to be relavent.

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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:22 pm 
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I stated above, if we can't develop our own guys the problem is in our evaluation, spending big money to mask it is just that, a band aide over a wound that is likely to fester till you need to cut the limb off.

Saying that whether its Z our scouting or what we determine makes a prospect probably needs to be looked at, if the Rays, A's and other teams have the capability to churn players into the league there is no reason this team can't. There was a time when the Cheap ownership would not pay anyone back in the old days, we were commonly known at the AAA farm team for the rest of the league with the amount of players we turned out that were on other teams.

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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:39 pm 
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chris98251 wrote:
I stated above, if we can't develop our own guys the problem is in our evaluation, spending big money to mask it is just that, a band aide over a wound that is likely to fester till you need to cut the limb off.

Saying that whether its Z our scouting or what we determine makes a prospect probably needs to be looked at, if the Rays, A's and other teams have the capability to churn players into the league there is no reason this team can't. There was a time when the Cheap ownership would not pay anyone back in the old days, we were commonly known at the AAA farm team for the rest of the league with the amount of players we turned out that were on other teams.


We aren't developing enough young guys to fill an entire roster. At some point you can't expect to start 9 homegrown guys. If you have a guy like Cano that forces players like Ackley or Franklin to step up and battle for a position instead of both of them playing because you have no other options.

You have to make moves that bolster your team instead of being afraid of all the things that can go wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:44 pm 
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That's two mil a month for ten years. It is going to be a full time job to spend that much money.
I know where the Mariners can find a good shortstop who lives locally and is unemployed from January until September... Probably could pick him up cheap so he wouldn't have to collect unemployment. He is too short to play football, but not for baseball... Has a cool wallet, too...


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:06 pm 
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Donn2390 wrote:
That's two mil a month for ten years. It is going to be a full time job to spend that much money.
I know where the Mariners can find a good shortstop who lives locally and is unemployed from January until September... Probably could pick him up cheap so he wouldn't have to collect unemployment. He is too short to play football, but not for baseball... Has a cool wallet, too...


You mean the guy who had a .230 career average in two years of lower minor leagues?

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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:41 pm 
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Quote:
Taijuan Walker ‏@tai_walker
All these trade rumors are crazy Flattered to be mentioned in rumors for Price but I really hope to stay in seattle and win a championship


:D

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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:53 pm 
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chris98251 wrote:
There was a time when the Cheap ownership would not pay anyone back in the old days, we were commonly known at the AAA farm team for the rest of the league with the amount of players we turned out that were on other teams.



When and who?

Its time to move on from in house developing and affordable deals for vet players. We spent a near decade trying to nurture our youth talent. We have a whole roster of it...and its not enough to be competitive.

So we are supplementing that failure by signing the premier free agent in baseball (without sending a single promising player away) and some of you are worried his salary might handcuff our ability sign future stars?

Good lord... If Canos deal is a problem in the future that means we've been successful.


Last edited by Uncle Si on Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:33 pm 
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dontbelikethat wrote:
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Taijuan Walker ‏@tai_walker
All these trade rumors are crazy Flattered to be mentioned in rumors for Price but I really hope to stay in seattle and win a championship


:D


Plus 1! Don't sent Walker anywhere, send Pryor or someone else. Walker is a future star.


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:41 pm 
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SonicHawk wrote:
Donn2390 wrote:
That's two mil a month for ten years. It is going to be a full time job to spend that much money.
I know where the Mariners can find a good shortstop who lives locally and is unemployed from January until September... Probably could pick him up cheap so he wouldn't have to collect unemployment. He is too short to play football, but not for baseball... Has a cool wallet, too...


You mean the guy who had a .230 career average in two years of lower minor leagues?

In one of his last games as a pro baseball player, Wilson and the Tourists visited the Augusta Greenjackets. Batting eighth, Wilson went 1-for-3 with an RBI triple, a walk and two stolen bases in a 6-5 loss. He went 0-for-5 a couple weeks later in his final game, capping the day by grounding into a double play -- but that came just 24 hours after he hit his last home run, a three-run blast, on June 24, 2011.


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:03 pm 
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Donn2390 wrote:
SonicHawk wrote:
Donn2390 wrote:
That's two mil a month for ten years. It is going to be a full time job to spend that much money.
I know where the Mariners can find a good shortstop who lives locally and is unemployed from January until September... Probably could pick him up cheap so he wouldn't have to collect unemployment. He is too short to play football, but not for baseball... Has a cool wallet, too...


You mean the guy who had a .230 career average in two years of lower minor leagues?

In one of his last games as a pro baseball player, Wilson and the Tourists visited the Augusta Greenjackets. Batting eighth, Wilson went 1-for-3 with an RBI triple, a walk and two stolen bases in a 6-5 loss. He went 0-for-5 a couple weeks later in his final game, capping the day by grounding into a double play -- but that came just 24 hours after he hit his last home run, a three-run blast, on June 24, 2011.


Sounds like Hank Aaron.

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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:13 pm 
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akscoundrel wrote:
m0ng0 wrote:
WOW ! I gotta say I am kinda liking where things are going :D


Yes, spending an obnoxious amount of money on a dude who's best years are behind him, and was just looking to cash out on retirement is a real positive change....

At best, we are looking at a few *decent* years of production, a few years where he doesnt have much left, and a few years ot just being a useless ball and chain to this organization. Lets also keep pretending he didnt benefit from yankee stadiums short right porch, or that the ball doesnt travel exceedingly well in safeco.

I understand the mentality of trying to turn things around, but this was a terrible deal. 10 years to a 31 year old? Lmfao.

want to know the change I want to see? Developing players, and actually keeping them when them become really good!


IMO they should have pony up for Fielder a couple of years ago instead of trading for Montero. This signing is going to bite the Mariners in the butt.


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:15 am 
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His best years are behind him? This isn't he NFL. 30 -35 is still prime. Ibanez just smacked 29 hrs at 41 and he was never as talented as Cano. What do you think 29 homers will be worth salary wise in even 2020? This isn't the ARod deal. Its the same deal but ARod signed his 7-8 years ago... This is the market (a bit high but that was necessary).

Hate the deal if you want...but do it for the right reasons. The "deal" isn't awful. You can certainly make great points its not the right fit but Cano as a player is an MVP talent.

This deal is worthless if its not followed by two more strong players. Cano will make the hitters around him better... But he will need protection


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:30 am 
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Yeah I'm okay with the Cano deal in fact it's been overdue. Our young offensive players haven't done much of anything so far, but the one thing we haven't tried yet is putting some proven talent in there with them to ease the transition a little bit.

Yeah it'd be nice if Jack Z could hit on offensive players that would just come up and pop regardless of their surroundings but that ain't happening.

Now, given my lack of faith in Jack Z I think it's possible you throw Cano in there and even a couple other bats and the young guys still all suck but inability to evaluate young offensive talent is different criticism of Z, one I fully endorse.


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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:32 pm 
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haroldseattle wrote:
akscoundrel wrote:
m0ng0 wrote:
WOW ! I gotta say I am kinda liking where things are going :D


Yes, spending an obnoxious amount of money on a dude who's best years are behind him, and was just looking to cash out on retirement is a real positive change....

At best, we are looking at a few *decent* years of production, a few years where he doesnt have much left, and a few years ot just being a useless ball and chain to this organization. Lets also keep pretending he didnt benefit from yankee stadiums short right porch, or that the ball doesnt travel exceedingly well in safeco.

I understand the mentality of trying to turn things around, but this was a terrible deal. 10 years to a 31 year old? Lmfao.

want to know the change I want to see? Developing players, and actually keeping them when them become really good!


IMO they should have pony up for Fielder a couple of years ago instead of trading for Montero. This signing is going to bite the Mariners in the butt.


Uh, that Fielder deal went south about fifteen minutes after he put his name on the contract. No thank you, both with hindsight and at the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Robinson Cano has agreed to 10 years/$240 mill
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:12 am 
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EDIT: Wrong thread lol.

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