Wedge not returning to the Mariners next year

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  • Mariner Fans, do you guys remember.

    Mike Carp AKA (Magickarp.) AVG: .296 9 HR 43 RBI (86 GAMES) .362 OBP (.885 OPS????????)
    John Jaso 70 Games .271 AVG 3HR 21 RBI .759 OPS


    Also btw Jaso was good @ Seattle, but we traded him for Michael Morse who we traded him for Xavier Avery? ( Don't know this kid)
    Carmon1274
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  • Sports Hernia wrote:Honest question for Uncle Si: Why does the fanbase not trust Lincoln and Armstrong from your POV???

    And how do those 2 guys regain the trust of a jilted fanbase besides the obvious answer which is to win more?


    Its difficult. I mean we want to win. They need to show intent to winning. I understand they have a philosophy (allegedly) and then I'm not as bent by not overspending for players.

    But have a philosophy. Be something the fan base can identify with. We know what JS is willing to do for the Seahawks. Even if it doesn't work we've all bought into it ( or at least recognize the efforts)

    Those two are enigmas to Ms fans. By all accounts they tried to sign Fielder Hamilton and trade for Upton... Yet no one really believes it because none has any idea what their plan is.

    Put a winning product out there... Or at least let us all in on what the future of the franchise is.
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  • Carmon1274 wrote:
    m0ng0 wrote:Should they have traded the prospects away for Justin Upton or Josh Hamilton or a 280lb 1st baseman who hit 25 homers?


    *edit*

    I looked a little deeper and compared the 3 above with Ibanez, Morales and Seager

    Fielder/Upton/Hamilton .264 avg, .341 obp, 73 hr, 255 rbi, 50 million
    Ibanez/Seager/Morales .261 abg .327 obp 74 hr, 214 rbi 8.5 million
    Ki


    Who said trade away top prospects for Hitters?

    What Z didn't do importantly this season was trade away Raul Ibanez. Ibanez hit 24 homers and 56 RBIs in 277 at-bats with a .267 average before All Star Break.

    Kendrys Morales also should had been traded, Switch Hitter that can play 1b, and his stats are not that bad.
    280 with 14 homers and 54 RBIs and guess what, he's a free agent, and we could had got something out of him, but nope.


    No one was giving anything of value for two vet players on one year deals. I understand the logic but I'm fairly certain the return would have been very low...

    Remember the trade deadline saw very little movement this year... No one was all that interested in an ibanez when a player like morneau goes for nothing
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  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:Honest question for Uncle Si: Why does the fanbase not trust Lincoln and Armstrong from your POV???

    And how do those 2 guys regain the trust of a jilted fanbase besides the obvious answer which is to win more?


    Its difficult. I mean we want to win. They need to show intent to winning. I understand they have a philosophy (allegedly) and then I'm not as bent by not overspending for players.

    But have a philosophy. Be something the fan base can identify with. We know what JS is willing to do for the Seahawks. Even if it doesn't work we've all bought into it ( or at least recognize the efforts)

    Those two are enigmas to Ms fans. By all accounts they tried to sign Fielder Hamilton and trade for Upton... Yet no one really believes it because none has any idea what their plan is.

    Put a winning product out there... Or at least let us all in on what the future of the franchise is.

    Fair enough. My main point is they are their own worst enemy. I just cannot wrap my head around how after failing pretty much for the last 10 seasons the same folks responsible for said failures all of the sudden are going to rite the ship.

    The success of the 2 main tennants across the street really contrasts how teams that are run the right way (Hawks, Sounders) vs teams ran the wrong way (mariners).

    And to mention the Hawks have to deal with a salary cap vs none in baseball, so it should have been much easier to turn the M's around vs the Hawks IMHO. As a lifelong M's fan I'm starting to feel indifferent towards the team, and judging by attendance numbers I'm not alone.

    Throw in the fact that Howard is trying to block the Sonics/NHL arena pisses me off to no end and just shows how out of touch with reality he is. He needs to concentrate on putting a winning team on the field, and if he does that he doesn't have to worry about any potential competition from he NBA and NHL.
    Last edited by Sports Hernia on Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • It's easy to see what they are doing. They are just talking the talk..... We are going to do this... Or that... We don't want to " overspend" ( I am not an idiot. The market decides the cost, not the Ms...sorry Ms ) ... They managed to save enough pennies to by ROOT. Why? Because it increases the valuation.

    The owners just want to make as much money as they can. The Front Office gets the marching orders from them. As we have seen since 2008 started they could care less about a pennant contending team unless it can be built on the cheap. They understand that there are a lot of " True Believers " that coin lovingly little ditties like " In Jack we trust ". They will buy in year after year... Sad really.

    Sports Hernia is right, Paul Allen is the polar opposite. He cares about winning and has quality teams that we love. He still make a lot of money, I am sure. He is a true icon of the PNW.
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  • Happypuppy wrote:It's easy to see what they are doing. They are just talking the talk..... We are going to do this... Or that... We don't want to " overspend" ( I am not an idiot. The market decides the cost, not the Ms...sorry Ms ) ... They managed to save enough pennies to by ROOT. Why? Because it increases the valuation.

    The owners just want to make as much money as they can. The Front Office gets the marching orders from them. As we have seen since 2008 started they could care less about a pennant contending team unless it can be built on the cheap. They understand that there are a lot of " True Believers " that coin lovingly little ditties like " In Jack we trust ". They will buy in year after year... Sad really.

    Sports Hernia is right, Paul Allen is the polar opposite. He cares about winning and has quality teams that we love. He still make a lot of money, I am sure. He is a true icon of the PNW.



    yeah, the attendance really shows how well we are all "buying in" each year.

    Its pretty easy to show the faults in the organization. we all recognize it. youre not offering anything new or enlightening. many disagree that the club needs to throw big money at free agents versus a more efficient plan. you seem to think that makes us "true believers" or "apologists".. no.. it makes us effing fans desperate to see their team brought back to its former glory. if you were a fan of the Seahawks in the 90s through the lean years of the Holmgren era just to get to where we are now you should understand.

    The point that I'm making is that we have no idea what Howard and Lincoln's plans are, which makes them awful leaders of the club. We can say that all they care about is money, and you've obviously chosen to look at their potential expenditures over the last few years as cynical at best. fine... its hard to argue (although this isnt the CIA, so I tend to lean towards they really did want to buy Fielder then Hamilton and were willing to trade for Upton).

    The only way to resolve it is to win. If we went out an spent a ton Cano it would generate both eye rolls and frantic applause, because noone has any idea what the direction the team is trying to go (are we a young team built on the shoulders of burgeoning talent sprinkled with a strong vet presence? are we a young team that wants to use its talent to trade for and buy big talents? are we a young team that just sucks and will always suck?)

    But again, thats my point, these two are not believable, and as you said are the polar opposites of Paul Allen, who as an owner has had many downs in his choices. lets be honest. the seahawks are great right now. But Allen has made many mistakes over the years that have frustrated the fans to no end... his one saving grace is that we all believe that he's trying to win, and thats all we care about.

    Lincoln and Armstrong dont offer that. hell, would any of us even be able to pick them out in a semi crowded room?
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  • Anyone see the transcript of Lincoln on the Mariners after the 2013 season?

    How do you sell this team to fans? If two fans were standing here right now and asked, ‘Why should we spend our money to go see your product?’ What do you tell them?

    "First I’d tell them that when you get to Safeco Field you are going to have a safe, friendly environment. You are going to be sitting in a first class ballpark. You are going to get great entertainment. It’s a great place to come whether it’s at the Pen or at Edgar’s or wherever. So there’s a lot of things going on at Safeco Field for the fans to enjoy besides watching major league baseball. And I would point that out to them. Many of our fans are thinking about things other than just what’s on the field, so we have to provide a really good entertainment experience across the board as well as getting that major league team to perform.


    Read more here: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/mariners ... rylink=cpy

    Wow... just wow.
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  • DHawk wrote:Anyone see the transcript of Lincoln on the Mariners after the 2013 season?

    How do you sell this team to fans? If two fans were standing here right now and asked, ‘Why should we spend our money to go see your product?’ What do you tell them?

    "First I’d tell them that when you get to Safeco Field you are going to have a safe, friendly environment. You are going to be sitting in a first class ballpark. You are going to get great entertainment. It’s a great place to come whether it’s at the Pen or at Edgar’s or wherever. So there’s a lot of things going on at Safeco Field for the fans to enjoy besides watching major league baseball. And I would point that out to them. Many of our fans are thinking about things other than just what’s on the field, so we have to provide a really good entertainment experience across the board as well as getting that major league team to perform.


    Read more here: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/mariners ... rylink=cpy

    Wow... just wow.



    christ on a bike...

    so Safeco is alot of fun (if you dont really care about, you know, good baseball)
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  • My problem is this fan base seems to think forkling a 100 million out to a vet is the answer to everything, success is when you can see talent and bring it in before they hit the big time. Thats the scouts and GM. You don't buy a team typically and be successful, it may draw fans in becasue of name recognition but rarely sustains a winning organazation long before that 100 million dollar player is injured or falls off. You can piece work a few piece here and there but you have to know what your looking at as a core and how it fits your ball park and the rest of the team. Bringing in a series of slapstick hitters when there is no speed on the bases is dumb, doing it and having them hit for lousy average is a suicide receipe for a team.

    I have heard people say the ball dies at Safeco etc, if so why do teams come in here and win games with the long ball so much against us, you would think if built correctly we would have a assembled team that takes advantage of the home field limitations on hitters, not struggle more ourselves.

    Oh and the comment by Lincoln about ball park expereience being more important then the base ball game, sounds a lot like the City Council when the Sonics left town and they said that Poetry reading and the Ice Capades could make up for the Sonics dates in the Key.

    As far asa Wedge goes, didn't he have a stroke or a Heart Attack this year or something to that effect, I could see him wanting to step away from a real stressful situation for health reasons alone.
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  • Even if you offer a vet $100 million they don't want to come to Seattle.
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  • Lets go after Dusty Baker!

    I mean seriously.......why not?
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  • Yep my thoughts exactly, I hear he is not good with young arms (which we have a few slightly fragile ones) but yeah it would be a sign that the team is serious about winning now perhaps?
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  • Good riddance.
    Eric Wedge personally caused more games to be lost these last 3 years, with his sketchy pitching changes, and inflexible game strategies than any other single factor, including injuries & FO debacles.
    Its not a heart issue with him...its a brain issue.
    Uh, Buh-bye.
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  • Wedge was only a small part of the problem. The cancer of the M's (the 2 who will not be talked about) still remain, and as long as they are still running things expect the same results. It really is that simple. The manager is irrelevant if the bean counters and talent evaluators fail at their jobs.
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  • They need to hire a manager with some clout.


    Any bit would go a long way, players don't want to play for no bodies. Dusty Baker should come in, but this team is hell bent on mediocrity. They'll likely hire one of their batting coaches or some bum from Triple A with zero experience at the major league level.


    Those in charge are doing a great job of running this team, straight into the ground.


    Hard to get excited, spend money on, or even root for this franchise as it currently sits.
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  • SouthSoundHawk wrote:They need to hire a manager with some clout.


    Any bit would go a long way, players don't want to play for no bodies. Dusty Baker should come in, but this team is hell bent on mediocrity. They'll likely hire one of their batting coaches or some bum from Triple A with zero experience at the major league level.


    Those in charge are doing a great job of running this team, straight into the ground.


    Hard to get excited, spend money on, or even root for this franchise as it currently sits.

    Howard Lincoln doesn't like to be called out, challenged, or told what he needs to do to make the ballclub better. He just wants a "yes man" that will "just be happy to be a MLB manager" that wont rock the boat, winning be damned.
    42-13, 29-3, and 23-17 and a Lombardi trophy from THIS millennium.....deal with it niner trolls

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  • SouthSoundHawk wrote:They need to hire a manager with some clout.


    Any bit would go a long way, players don't want to play for no bodies. Dusty Baker should come in, but this team is hell bent on mediocrity. They'll likely hire one of their batting coaches or some bum from Triple A with zero experience at the major league level.


    Those in charge are doing a great job of running this team, straight into the ground.


    Hard to get excited, spend money on, or even root for this franchise as it currently sits.

    The problem with this is no manager with "clout" is going to want to come to Seattle and work for this front office.
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  • Good step with not retaining Wedge but they really need to ditch Jack Z. I cant remember the last time a bad manager like him was overrated so much from the fanbase. Hes made bad decision after bad decision but because he started out relatively well at the start of his time here hes looked at as a pretty good manager and not the problem. Just proves the power of a good first impression.
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  • therealjohncarlson wrote:Good step with not retaining Wedge but they really need to ditch Jack Z. I cant remember the last time a bad manager like him was overrated so much from the fanbase. Hes made bad decision after bad decision but because he started out relatively well at the start of his time here hes looked at as a pretty good manager and not the problem. Just proves the power of a good first impression.

    I'm not going to defend Wedge but he isn't the main reason the M's are craptastic. It's lack of talent on offense. Any manager would struggle with this team. This team is more interested in selling you the " great ball park experience" than putting a playoff contending team on the field.
    42-13, 29-3, and 23-17 and a Lombardi trophy from THIS millennium.....deal with it niner trolls

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