How good is the USMNT??

Discuss any and all sports-related topics. From the College Sports to Baseball and everything in between. RATING: PG-13
How good is the USMNT??
Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:24 pm
  • The USMNT today came from behind to beat #13 Bosnia 4-3, led by Jozy Altidore who tallied a hat trick and an assist.

    The US has won 12 strait games. Which is top 5 all time in terms of streaks (#1 being spain with 15).

    The team is also 3 points away from qualification to the world cup with 6 games to play (it might be 4 games, can't remember).

    The team is no longer just two big names and a legendary keeper (Donovan, Dempsey, and Howard). We legitimately have a squad that gels together and is a force to be reckoned with.

    We not only have Howard, Dempsey, Donovan but we have an anchor in the center of the park in Michael Bradley, and a stud up front in Jozy Altidore. The cast is coming together and I think there is a chance we can make a real run at the world cup.

    Now im not saying we will win it, or anything like that, but we certainly are capable of making a deep run at it. The talent level is getting there, and the teams understanding of how to play together is at an all time high.

    Thoughts??
    Image
    Man up, stand in line.
    User avatar
    Smurf
    * NET Fan Boy *
     
    Posts: 4373
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:08 am
    Location: Brier, WA


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:27 pm
  • Be lucky to make it to the quarter Finals, Smurf. They just aren't good enough to compete with Uruguay, Argentina, Brazil, Germany, Italy, Spain, Holland, etc.
    Colt 45 and two zig zags.
    User avatar
    peachesenregalia
    * NET Starfish *
     
    Posts: 11220
    Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:29 am
    Location: Helm's Deep


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:59 pm
  • If we make it out of the group stages we're playing with house money.
    InSuarezWeTrust
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 434
    Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:34 am


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:59 pm
  • Good team. Has some nice pieces. Should be expected to make it from the group stages if we get the right draw. Play a good style. Mix of the 433 with that hearty American ethic.

    Still outside of altidores recent form they struggle technically overall. But its coming.
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5367
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:13 am
  • Klinsmann magic is working. That game yesterday was amazing. Going down early 2-0 to Bosnia and then scoring 4 goals in the second half. Klinsman has this team clicking and they were without arguably their two best players - Dempsey and Donovan. The ceiling for this team is really high and they way they are playing of late they may just hit it by the World Cup. That would be awesome.
    User avatar
    hawkfan68
    *GOLD SUPPORTER*
    *GOLD SUPPORTER*
     
    Posts: 4061
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:10 am
    Location: Sammamish, WA


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:33 am
  • peachesenregalia wrote:Be lucky to make it to the quarter Finals, Smurf. They just aren't good enough to compete with Uruguay, Argentina, Brazil, Germany, Italy, Spain, Holland, etc.



    Quarter-final is definitely reachable. Although I would like them to get top 3. As far as other countries go, I think Holland is massively overrated and so are Argentina. In my honest opinion Germany are going to reach the final and probably win it.
    Image
    User avatar
    MANUNITED23
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1877
    Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:27 pm
    Location: Bay Area, CA


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:46 am
  • MANUNITED23 wrote:
    peachesenregalia wrote:Be lucky to make it to the quarter Finals, Smurf. They just aren't good enough to compete with Uruguay, Argentina, Brazil, Germany, Italy, Spain, Holland, etc.



    Quarter-final is definitely reachable. Although I would like them to get top 3. As far as other countries go, I think Holland is massively overrated and so are Argentina. In my honest opinion Germany are going to reach the final and probably win it.


    Germany is the nation to beat for the next two world cups. Agree on the Dutch. Argentina has just never clicked. I feel they've been far too inconsistent from the manager position.

    Brazil is on the rise again. Belgium is quickly becoming a very good side as well.

    To me the USMNT squad does not compare with these sides. They are still a generation away. But the current team can get in there and play with this level. Just dont see them getting results
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5367
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:03 am
  • We should probably remember that the side that played Bosnia isn't gonna be 100% similar to the one that travels to Brazil. It really all depends on the draw, I do believe that if the pieces fall right, we can make a deep run in the tournament. We're still a bit off of challenging for the World Cup, but we are capable of getting through the group stage, and finally getting over that last 16 hump. It's funny to think that at the beginning of the year people were questioning Jurgen's reign as US manager, and the rumors of discontent in the squad prior to the Snowclassico.
    User avatar
    Gatehawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1846
    Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:29 pm
    Location: SW Florida


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:04 am
  • Gatehawk wrote:We should probably remember that the side that played Bosnia isn't gonna be 100% similar to the one that travels to Brazil. It really all depends on the draw, I do believe that if the pieces fall right, we can make a deep run in the tournament. We're still a bit off of challenging for the World Cup, but we are capable of getting through the group stage, and finally getting over that last 16 hump. It's funny to think that at the beginning of the year people were questioning Jurgen's reign as US manager, and the rumors of discontent in the squad prior to the Snowclassico.


    I'd forgot about the "discontent".... Good point of reference on development of team.
    Final 16 has to be an expectation. Final 8 would be a dream really
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5367
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:05 am
  • The snow game may end up being one of the most important games is USMNT history. That was a turning point in the program and the development of the team.


    Final 16 is an expectation, and semi final is a real possibility.

    We can play with those teams. We aren't that far behind anymore.
    Image
    Man up, stand in line.
    User avatar
    Smurf
    * NET Fan Boy *
     
    Posts: 4373
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:08 am
    Location: Brier, WA


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:17 am
  • Smurf wrote:The snow game may end up being one of the most important games is USMNT history. That was a turning point in the program and the development of the team.


    Final 16 is an expectation, and semi final is a real possibility.

    We can play with those teams. We aren't that far behind anymore.


    We are gulfs in class from Germany Brazil and even Belgium. Sorry but that's just the way it is. Still far behind the Dutch and Spanish as well ( or even the Argentines and a really underrated Columbian side) Catching up to Italy France England Greece Portugal etc. for sure

    semifinals would take a massive effort to be honest.

    What's a bit unnerving though is the amount of talent found in the u21 ranks of Belgium Germany Brazil England Spain etc as opposed to us. That needs to change.
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5367
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:10 pm
  • We are gulfs in class from Germany Brazil and even Belgium. Sorry but that's just the way it is. Still far behind the Dutch and Spanish as well ( or even the Argentines and a really underrated Columbian side) Catching up to Italy France England Greece Portugal etc. for sure

    semifinals would take a massive effort to be honest.

    What's a bit unnerving though is the amount of talent found in the u21 ranks of Belgium Germany Brazil England Spain etc as opposed to us. That needs to change.


    You are absolutely spot on in regards to U-21 squads. All great teams have tremendous youth development system. Success of a national team starts with youth squads. If United States wants to compete for top 3 finish in the world cup then they must develop talent. Surely with so many folks living in here in United States, there is talent to be found.
    Image
    User avatar
    MANUNITED23
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1877
    Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:27 pm
    Location: Bay Area, CA


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:45 pm
  • 2014 will more than likely be the last World Cup for Donovan, Dempsey and Howard. So I'm hopeful we can get passed the final 16.
    This team is on par with second tier European clubs, and its hard to be optimistic about a defense which boasts two converted midfielders at fullback. I'm hopeful though!
    knownone
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 809
    Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:10 pm


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:19 am
  • I think we could make some very interesting games out of Germany, Spain, Brazil, Netherlands. Those 4 I think we can play with and make a game of it. Give them serious worry at times. Not saying we win, just saying we could give em a good game. Make em work for it.

    I know we can beat Italy, France, Greece and Portugal. We have the quality for that now. No walk in the park. But we could get it done.

    Belgium...that one i don't know about. They play like we do...just way better. Big, Strong, physical and quick and creative.


    I think we can legitimately play against anyone in the world and have a shot to beat them.
    Image
    Man up, stand in line.
    User avatar
    Smurf
    * NET Fan Boy *
     
    Posts: 4373
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:08 am
    Location: Brier, WA


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:24 am
  • While I admire your enthusiasm Smurf I think it both overrates the USMNTs technical ability and underrates the class if the worlds soccer elite.

    While its soccer and any well coached team can "play with" another its a big stretch to assert that equates to competitive balance....

    For 90 minutes anything can happen. But by that logic there are a score of teams that can play with Germany or Spain or Argentina
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5367
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:25 pm
  • Italy could field a team with their national team rejects and still field a team with more quality than the USMNT.

    We are miles away in terms of depth and quality from any of the teams you mentioned except Greece.

    We can hang with em and maybe pull out a favorable result, but I'd be surprised if we could win 3 out of 10 matches against teams of that quality.
    knownone
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 809
    Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:10 pm


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:11 pm
  • The depth is building. Our "B" team right now is better by a longshot than the team that went to Italy in 1990 and nearly pulled off the unthinkable. That team almost knocked off Italy IN Italy, and clearly outplayed them for the majority of the match.

    The USA team is better depth-wise now than the team that was within 45 minutes of winning the Confederations Cup in South Africa. To say they aren't there or are somehow worse than Italy is myopic at best. Those who follow the youth program in the USA now know that there are many bright stars on the horizon that are uber talented. Kids that are former baseball, basketball, and football players in the younger grades have moved on to soccer in order to get into the academy system and get paid to play. I taught a couple. One is on the USA watch list and was offered a full ride to U of North Carolina. He turned it down to go on a church mission and will be home in a month or so, and will then be playing in the MLS is my guess. The kid is 6'2" and about 210. His father was a D-I player and played for the national team in Ghana. He is the new generation of soccer player. His father was about 5'4" and raised his kids to be good soccer players, and this next generation have that size and strength and speed advantage due to diet and health overall.

    This particular young man raced me when he was 11. I was a very fast runner back then. I had college sports speed and ran about a 4.67 at 215 lbs. which isn't bad. He beat me by two lengths then. He got faster in high school. He's bigger than I am and is much faster than I was in my prime and I was a good player. But this kid could outskill me in every area at age 12. I was a letterman as a freshman in high school (14 years old).

    I see kids like this every single day in schools and they are now getting discovered. Klinnsman system favors developing those kids and bringing them along. We're on an upswing and will continue to be for some time.
    Image
    R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
    1/12/39 - 8/7/08
    User avatar
    SharkHawk
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3883
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:47 am


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:52 am
  • knownone wrote:Italy could field a team with their national team rejects and still field a team with more quality than the USMNT.

    We are miles away in terms of depth and quality from any of the teams you mentioned except Greece.




    this is absolutely untrue. Outside of Germany and Spain, most of the world's national teams fall off quite a bit outside the Starting 11. Italy's Starting 11 has already lost to the US, so hard to believe its "rejects" would fair any better.

    I will disagree with Shark on a couple things. First, our B squad isnt very strong. Its getting stronger, but still lacks impact players. Also, we didnt "almost knock off Italy" in 1990. I remember that game. While it was 1-0, we were hardly in it. Had one good look on goal (which was a bicycle kick if I recall). Just outclassed that whole tournament. very disappointing.

    As I said in Smurf's post regarding the Academy high schools, the US youth system has evolved and is doing a far better job of developing and finding its talent. We should see some early results of that closer to 2015 as we prepare for 2018.

    I would be cautious in saying the "new generation" has anything to do with size and speed. This country lacks technical ability. Our size and speed has been competitive with the rest of the world for decades. The world has plenty of big, fast strikers. (Soldado, Lukaku, Falcoa, Peter Crouch... kidding). but if he's 6'2" runs a 4.4 40 and has the foot skill of Goetze then sure.
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5367
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:34 pm
  • Who has the USMNT beat in an actual competitive match, that is at or near Italy's quality? Panama? Costa Rica?

    A friendly is not an accurate barometer of how good we are end of discussion. The LA Galaxy beat Juventus 3-1 in a competitive friendly, which one of those teams has more quality players?

    I've got a question for you who on the National team would start on Italy?

    Di Natale or Eddie Johnson?
    Pirlo or Bradley?
    Balotelli or Altidore?
    Chiellini or Gonzalez
    Barzagili or Any USA CB
    El Shaarwary or Gomez
    Abate or Evans
    Montolivo or Dempsey?

    Lets face it not only does Italy have more depth, they are more talented and more accomplished at just about every position.

    Seriously, Miccoli, Totti, Destro, Ogbonna, Poli, Nocerino, Balzeretti, Nesta, all players who would probably start or make the USMNT who are not even on Italy's squad.
    knownone
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 809
    Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:10 pm


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:20 pm
  • Thanks Si. I'm not referring to just the size and speed. I'm trying to get across the point that this generation has learned the technical skills, but they also have size and speed. For my example, I was referring to a kid who was raised by a national team player who had/has amazing technical ability. I didn't have amazing technical ability, but I could do things with the ball that many kids couldn't. I could play with either foot. I could pass with accuracy on crosses. I could finish. I could bend it and swerve it without difficulty. I could play in the air. I was significantly better than the majority of kids I played with. I was also much bigger and much stronger. My freshman year I was 5'6" and about 150 pounds. I was a little bowling ball, but I had the skills. Then my sophomore year I was 6'1" and about 190. This made a serious difference of course, because I had developed technical abilities as a little small and squat kid, but then sprouted up and had a ridiculous advantage over a lot of guys because I was not just a good technical player, but added the size and speed advantages, plus I was obviously still ambidextrous. BUT.... I was nowhere near many of the kids I see in the youth system now. I wouldn't even be a blip on the radar, but I was a letterman as a freshman and coming from Seattle to the mountains I was significantly more ingrained in soccer culture and how to play.

    As for the Italy game.... I stand by the fact that the B team is better than that team in 1990. You can disagree... but I think Nick Rimando is vastly superior to Tony Meola. Kyle Beckerman would have been a nice addition to that team. Landon Donovan is included in the B team as of right now (I'm speaking of the Gold Cup team) and Donovan is better at this age than Wynalda was at any age in my view.

    Lalas was a better player than any defender on the B team and Balboa was as well. And the bicycle kick I believe was Marcello off of the crossbar.

    Now.... as far as that tournament. Yeah.... they sucked. But the organization of US Soccer at that place was a joke. They had no concept of what was really going on. Even qualifying was spectacular. None of us even dreamed of it as we watched the final in Mexico. But it happened. The expectation against Italy was 5-0. That was what everybody around me said, that is what people on Usenet were predicting. The fact that the US didn't have chances wasn't a surprise. They wanted to weather the onslaught and create an opportunity. They had the opportunity to win. Saying it wasn't close is a bit of a stretch in a 1-0 game that was 3 inches away from being 1-1. That to me means you played pretty even. If you lose 7-0 in an NFL game and you drop a bomb in the endzone in the 4th quarter, then I'd say it was a close game and that you almost won, whether or not the stats showed the other team marching up and down the field. You did enough to win. The US did enough to win that game in my view, and by all rights they had as much business even playing that game as Cameroon did against Argentina. ;) My friend from Argentina still claims that Cameroon spent the whole game kicking Maradona in his shin splint and broke his tibia lengthwise and he had "seen proof". Delusional! That game will live with me forever.

    I think you are right on the technical aspect and its importance. The shot by Altidore on the free kick (wicked) is just one shot, but it is one that nobody on that 1990 team (except for maybe Ramos) could have put home in such a fashion. Things are getting better. I appreciate so much the dedication you have and your willingness to coach and help kids in the youth system improve and love the game. From the inside it's not always easy to see growth, because we see the deficiencies. Now that I have left and am strictly an outside observer (and do NOTHING... no scouting, no recommendations, no giving tips to coaches and schools on players).

    I am totally 100% an observer. And I see tremendous growth. Are we where we want to be? No. Are we on the right track? Way more so than 25 years ago. The team that qualified for 1990 was very strange. They basically showed up and played together only during their games, and TRIED to get a few practices in. None of them really knew each other. Thank goodness for Tab Ramos for being such an amazing leader. But they were flying in from everywhere and really had no support compared to now. Things are changing for the positive. It's not happening fast enough, but it is happening. When we now have guys that are 6' and 200 with technical ability is encouraging, because they are much better options than the likes of Mike Burns, Frank Clopas, Ernie Stewart, Cobi Jones, etc. Those guys were good and did what they did very well, but the strength and speed and such is important as a step to putting our best athletes on the field.
    Image
    R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
    1/12/39 - 8/7/08
    User avatar
    SharkHawk
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3883
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:47 am


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:29 pm
  • knownone wrote:Who has the USMNT beat in an actual competitive match, that is at or near Italy's quality? Panama? Costa Rica?

    A friendly is not an accurate barometer of how good we are end of discussion. The LA Galaxy beat Juventus 3-1 in a competitive friendly, which one of those teams has more quality players?

    I've got a question for you who on the National team would start on Italy?

    Di Natale or Eddie Johnson?
    Pirlo or Bradley?
    Balotelli or Altidore?
    Chiellini or Gonzalez
    Barzagili or Any USA CB
    El Shaarwary or Gomez
    Abate or Evans
    Montolivo or Dempsey?

    Lets face it not only does Italy have more depth, they are more talented and more accomplished at just about every position.

    Seriously, Miccoli, Totti, Destro, Ogbonna, Poli, Nocerino, Balzeretti, Nesta, all players who would probably start or make the USMNT who are not even on Italy's squad.


    Hmmm... so we beat Italy head to head, but don't compare because it was a friendly? Did Italy play to win? Just as much as the USA did. Italy soccer is not on the rise. They are dropping. They've regressed more than any "power country" over the last 25 years. Tell me one that has dropped more. The USA is climbing, and Italy isn't. You can list names and say "better check, better check" but I can do the same back. You honestly don't think a guy like Altidore could play on Italy? Seriously? Which Gomez are you using? You're using Eddie Johnson as a first teamer? Interesting. 1-1 comparisons are much different than 11-11 comparisons. Italy has fallen apart in my view. What does Juventus against the Galaxy have to do with anything, and why say "End of discussion" and then go on and have a discussion if it has ended? I don't know what you're getting at.

    Are you really Giuseppi Rossi in disguise? He also thinks Italy is the way to go... but I don't see it. Congrats to him, but it hasn't quite worked out like he'd hoped, except for that nice goal he got after entering against the US prior to blowing out his knee for about the fifth time. But I'm glad he took so much glee in prancing around and celebrating the team that "snubbed him". Unfortunately, he seems to forget that he snubbed the USA and got all crybaby about the fact that the USA didn't hound him endlessly. He had no interest in playing for the USA, even though he grew up here, and then acted like he was exacting revenge by getting a goal against us. Hopefully that's a good highlight for his life. Good on him... but I'd take the USA against Italy in any tourney game right now and feel very comfortable putting my money behind it.
    Image
    R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
    1/12/39 - 8/7/08
    User avatar
    SharkHawk
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3883
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:47 am


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:58 pm
  • Italy was just in the Euro final, and won the 06' WC where is the decline? Obviously they are at the end of a cycle but you see that with every team, eventually you have to bring in inexperienced hungrier players.

    Do I think Altidore has the talent to play on the Italian national team, yes. Do I think he has proven worthy at this point in his career? No. He's had one great season in an average league.

    Juventus vs LAG was an example of a friendly being meaningless. The disparity between those teams in terms talent is HUGE yet LAG won the game 3-1... Does that make sense?
    Friendlies are like preseason games in American football. Good for chemistry building and cohesion, meaningless because the emphasis is placed not on winning but on executing properly and trying out fringe squad members.

    Look I love what the USA is doing, but lets not crown them before they've beaten a single top tier team in a meaningful game. MLS is evolving rapidly and I think with players like Julian Green and John Brooks coming up that we can be in the Italy, England, France discussion soon but we are not there yet.
    knownone
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 809
    Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:10 pm


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:34 am
  • club friendlies do not equal international friendlies...


    thats all im going to say. One is to sell tickets, the other is to gauge the level and unity of your team.

    USMNT beating Bosnia 4-3 holds way more weight than the galaxy beating Juve.
    Image
    Man up, stand in line.
    User avatar
    Smurf
    * NET Fan Boy *
     
    Posts: 4373
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:08 am
    Location: Brier, WA


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:24 am
  • Smurf wrote:club friendlies do not equal international friendlies...


    thats all im going to say. One is to sell tickets, the other is to gauge the level and unity of your team.

    USMNT beating Bosnia 4-3 holds way more weight than the galaxy beating Juve.

    I think you're missing my point.

    Switzerland beat Brazil 1 nil, are the Swiss the next break out team?
    No? They also beat WC favorites Germany 5-3.
    The great Romanian national team beat Belgium 2-1... the same Belgium that trounced the USA 4-2.

    Friendlies are meaningless.
    knownone
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 809
    Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:10 pm


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:50 am
  • You're saying the Swiss are winning the World Cup then....


    Can't you three just cone to the realization that one if you undervalues the strength of the USMNT while the other two overestimate it? The truth is really right in between the two.
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5367
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:29 pm
  • Si, we all know I'm right. So lets just leave it at that.


    :P
    Image
    Man up, stand in line.
    User avatar
    Smurf
    * NET Fan Boy *
     
    Posts: 4373
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:08 am
    Location: Brier, WA


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:31 pm
  • I don't overestimate it. I compared it to 1990 and said we are significantly better off. Tell me how I'm wrong on that point Uncle Si. This team actually has 2 deep and plays together multiple times per year. That alone is a massive step up from 23 years ago. I don't see how it isn't. To say that kids in America aren't technically better players is stupid. Are the best American players as good technically as players from other countries? No. I didn't say that. What I did say is that the process is working and things are building up. The Academies are a huge part of teaching kids how to play right... not just having kids like me who were good athletes and fast and strong with relatively poor technical skills winning spots on teams.

    Times are changing. The US team has improved more between 1990 and 2013 than they did in the previous 200+ years of the country combined. After the win over England back in 50, then the team did nothing. The makeup of that team was pretty sketchy too. But it should have really started a movement that really didn't take hold until the USA beat Colombia in LA. Then things started building (too slowly for some, but at least they were building finally). I think the idea that we're doing everything all wrong is understandable in comparison to other countries (like England, which is frequently held up as the standard bearer... but the USA's national team is better than England's, so I don't see how we're failing so monumentally). We're getting there. Do some things need to change? Of course. But to act like we're as bad off as we were when we fielded a team with Jeff Agoos and Mike Burns is silly. We were so desperate that guys like Preki and Thomas Dooley had to be recruited into playing, and they weren't young guys with great national team careers ahead of them. They were old and their best years were long gone.
    Image
    R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
    1/12/39 - 8/7/08
    User avatar
    SharkHawk
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3883
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:47 am


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:48 pm
  • Some naivety in your post Shark.

    I'll say this, we are not better than England. In one game.. sure. Overall... Still off a bit.

    I work in the academies so I'm not sure where your assumptions come from regarding my thoughts on what we do.

    You're assessment of the 1990 squad is way off. (And since 1950 theres been some changes in the game overall... A couple). Most of those players were D1 or professional right before. Technically speaking the whole world is better, so thst argument is fine if you assume the rest of the world has stopped developing. On to the squads....You conveniently say we recruited players in 90 while ignoring what klinsmanns doing now... Look at the roster. Kids from mexico and Germany coming in. Not from our club system but other countries.

    I posted in another thread what youth soccer looks like right now. lots of positive development. Still setting the framework. Again look at our 21s compared to Spain's or Germany s.

    It will happen.
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5367
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:17 pm
  • Now who is being naive? You're claiming that because we still recruit players that means we're messed up somehow and not on the right track? EVERY country recruits players. Don't you think Spain tried awful hard to cap Messi? They did. Does that mean their program is a mess? Hardly. How about Italy taking Rossi. He's an American for crying out loud.

    The players the US are getting now are polar opposites of who they got before. You really want to compare capping Timmy Chandler to capping Preki? HAHAHAHA. That's hilarious. They are quite different sir. Thomas Dooley was the other I mentioned. His situation was infinitely different than Jones or Chandler or others. Preki's situation and David Regis' situation were so so so much different than the young guys who we are trying to hurry and cap that your argument is pretty stale. We are doing our recruiting and capping exactly how Italy did with Rossi (before he could think logically and longterm, and they got him when he was 18 and really just acting like any NCAA recruit that needs his ass kissed).

    To say that we're only better than England for one game is really not being forthright either. You think that England is going to win a World Cup really soon? Seriously? They have many young kids that are playing in their academy system. When is the last time they were good? Seriously seriously good? You don't think they'd have taken the US's run at the Confed cup? I bet they'd take it and then some. They haven't been relevant in quite a while. Do they have talent? No doubt. But to act like they are the standardbearer for Europe is a joke.

    So you're bringing it down to the Academy level and saying, "Well... I coach in an academy!" Then do your job. How's that? What better way to change the system than from the inside if you see how weak it is and what problems there are? How about being positive and focusing on what we DO have. We have a much larger following and much more participation.

    I get the feeling that what this boils down to is that you are trying to point out that you're a better coach than a lot of guys above you (I don't doubt it) and a lot of guys below you (again... I don't doubt it).

    So put out some instructional videos to show kids how to play. Start your own academy and create a juggernaut, just like many AAU coaches do that develop the best basketball talent in the world (and most of it is coming out of the west coast teams). I've given up on coaching. Why? Because the pay sucks, the hours suck, and the parents suck. I will coach any kid where I teach regular school how to be a good player if he/she wants me to. But it is up to them to take what I've given them and progress.

    I coached quarterbacks and was an offensive coordinator for a junior high team and got offered a job with a high school team, and turned it down. Why? Because it was a dead end. I'm a quitter. But you're not. I see holes in the system, as do you, but your unwillingness to accept the argument that USA's soccer system and overall situation is better than 1990 just seems funny to me. You honestly think it was better before? When you have to bring the likes of Bora in to even field a team, then I think that says a lot about the piss poor quality of the organizational structure. Now we have kids choosing to play for the USA, and that's a good thing. Not OLD MEN, but KIDS. There's a humongous difference.

    Sure some are picking because they feel they have a better shot here because of inferior talent, but some of those same guys are getting beat out for positions by those who were born and raised within the American system. We're not waiting for the likes of mystery talents like Jovan Kirovsky to magically appear on our shores one day and show us all how to play (he came up in the European Academy system, and flat out sucked. He couldn't crack the top 25 right now if he were in his prime, and at one point they called him "The Future of American Soccer".). I say things are better now. You disagree. So be it. But I wouldn't be excited about US Soccer's future if we were still in the same pit we were in 1990.
    Image
    R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
    1/12/39 - 8/7/08
    User avatar
    SharkHawk
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3883
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:47 am


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:47 pm
  • Shark your post is the most assumptive and absurd thing I've read on here. Congrats.

    And you clearly have missed, ignored, misunderstood or are simply ignorant to many of the things I've said.

    Let's summarize to simplify things for you, then I'm done because this is stupid

    The US system as a whole is better organized then ever before and has many intricate layers of development. This will pay off in the future. the 1990 squad and current one is still based on the same principles of tactical acumen and physicality. Klinsmann sees us being more like Germany by 2018 not 2014.

    The current USMnT is not at the level you think it is nor as bad as knowone suggests. Its a top 20 squad with experienced players capable of beating any of the worlds best but would never be beset with the expectations of winning one of those games

    We are struggling to develop technically gifted players on a world class level. I'll try to do better

    Soccer in this country is at its peak in popularity. This has caused a massive increase in investment in development.

    We are on a good path that might take a meteoric rise at the lower levels over the next five years. The current USMNT and its u21 component are still behind its world class counterparts. Some of this is purely generational. I just don't care if you agree.

    Is all this clear now so you stop with your baseless accusations of my negative feelings on US soccer. Christ on a bike I'd have a better chance arguing with my ex wife
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5367
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:40 am
  • I actually agree with you Uncle Si.

    We are a top 20 team and we can hang with just about every team in the world.

    I still believe that the gap between us and the top 5-10 teams is pretty huge.

    I would say we are a 6.5 out of 10 in terms of overall quality and depth, solidly above average but lacking 1 or 2 key pieces and overall depth from being a top 10 team.
    knownone
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 809
    Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:10 pm


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:55 pm
  • The USMNT looked horrid tonight against Costa Rica. If Bradley's injury keeps him out of the Mexico match on Tuesday I think we're looking at two straight losses.
    Image
    You are absolutely entitled to state your opinion whenever you wish, and I am absolutely entitled to point out the stupidity of that opinion with the same frequency.
    User avatar
    SeatownJay
    * NET Staff Alumni *
    * NET Staff Alumni *
     
    Posts: 6888
    Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:38 pm
    Location: Hagerstown, MD


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:19 am
  • Yeah...they were absolutely awful. Tim Howard was very below average. Actually the defense was abysmal. Orozco sucks and shouldn't be on the team. Beasley had a bad game too. The worst part is Bradley is injured and they play considerably worse without him plus Altidore is out next game for yellow card accumulation. Got to win against Mexico.
    User avatar
    hawkfan68
    *GOLD SUPPORTER*
    *GOLD SUPPORTER*
     
    Posts: 4061
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:10 am
    Location: Sammamish, WA


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:48 am
  • See? I try to keep telling you, Smurf, but you never listen. USMNT will be lucky to make is out of the group stage of the World cup. Not in the same class as the European or South AMerican teams.
    Colt 45 and two zig zags.
    User avatar
    peachesenregalia
    * NET Starfish *
     
    Posts: 11220
    Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:29 am
    Location: Helm's Deep


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:41 pm
  • SharkHawk wrote:
    knownone wrote:Who has the USMNT beat in an actual competitive match, that is at or near Italy's quality? Panama? Costa Rica?

    A friendly is not an accurate barometer of how good we are end of discussion. The LA Galaxy beat Juventus 3-1 in a competitive friendly, which one of those teams has more quality players?

    I've got a question for you who on the National team would start on Italy?

    Di Natale or Eddie Johnson?
    Pirlo or Bradley?
    Balotelli or Altidore?
    Chiellini or Gonzalez
    Barzagili or Any USA CB
    El Shaarwary or Gomez
    Abate or Evans
    Montolivo or Dempsey?

    Lets face it not only does Italy have more depth, they are more talented and more accomplished at just about every position.

    Seriously, Miccoli, Totti, Destro, Ogbonna, Poli, Nocerino, Balzeretti, Nesta, all players who would probably start or make the USMNT who are not even on Italy's squad.


    Hmmm... so we beat Italy head to head, but don't compare because it was a friendly? Did Italy play to win? Just as much as the USA did. Italy soccer is not on the rise. They are dropping. They've regressed more than any "power country" over the last 25 years. Tell me one that has dropped more. The USA is climbing, and Italy isn't. You can list names and say "better check, better check" but I can do the same back. You honestly don't think a guy like Altidore could play on Italy? Seriously? Which Gomez are you using? You're using Eddie Johnson as a first teamer? Interesting. 1-1 comparisons are much different than 11-11 comparisons. Italy has fallen apart in my view. What does Juventus against the Galaxy have to do with anything, and why say "End of discussion" and then go on and have a discussion if it has ended? I don't know what you're getting at.

    Are you really Giuseppi Rossi in disguise? He also thinks Italy is the way to go... but I don't see it. Congrats to him, but it hasn't quite worked out like he'd hoped, except for that nice goal he got after entering against the US prior to blowing out his knee for about the fifth time. But I'm glad he took so much glee in prancing around and celebrating the team that "snubbed him". Unfortunately, he seems to forget that he snubbed the USA and got all crybaby about the fact that the USA didn't hound him endlessly. He had no interest in playing for the USA, even though he grew up here, and then acted like he was exacting revenge by getting a goal against us. Hopefully that's a good highlight for his life. Good on him... but I'd take the USA against Italy in any tourney game right now and feel very comfortable putting my money behind it.


    I was at the US-Italy friendly in Genova that night. America looked good and IS a team on the rise. However, Italy is the better squad by a long shot. They were playing without the majority of their heavy hitters and the US hung on by a thread. If that game is played ten times, Italy wins 7 of them. I'm American, I bleed red, white and blue and the Americans played their hearts out, but the Italians were the better squad.

    Italy was runner up in the European Championship LAST YEAR and finished third in the Confederations Cup THIS YEAR. Did I mention that on the way to their finishing as runners up in the European Championship they absolutely manhandled Germany in a game where they easily could have scored 7 goals.

    Before losing to the United States, Italy beat Spain in a friendly 2-1 which was/is on one of the greatest tears in the history of futbol/soccer/calcio. This same "aging" Italian squad played Spain to a draw in the semi-final of the Confederations Cup only to lose on PKs 7-6. Outside of losing to Brazil 4-2, Italy has beat Spain (#1 ranked in FIFA), England (#14) and Germany (#2) in last three years while finishing with an average placing of 2.5 in the two tournaments they've played. In the mean time,the United States hasn't done anything coming close to this.

    Buffon is getting older, true. Balotelli is 23 years old and is the future heart of this team for years to go.

    SharkHawk I like your posts in the football forum, but I really don't understand how you can even compare Italy with the United States in soccer.
    User avatar
    falcongoggles
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3342
    Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:46 pm
    Location: Florence, Italy


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:51 pm
  • SharkHawk wrote:
    Hmmm... so we beat Italy head to head, but don't compare because it was a friendly? Did Italy play to win? Just as much as the USA did. Italy soccer is not on the rise. They are dropping. They've regressed more than any "power country" over the last 25 years. Tell me one that has dropped more. The USA is climbing, and Italy isn't. You can list names and say "better check, better check" but I can do the same back. You honestly don't think a guy like Altidore could play on Italy? Seriously? Which Gomez are you using? You're using Eddie Johnson as a first teamer? Interesting. 1-1 comparisons are much different than 11-11 comparisons. Italy has fallen apart in my view. What does Juventus against the Galaxy have to do with anything, and why say "End of discussion" and then go on and have a discussion if it has ended? I don't know what you're getting at.


    Italy was the runner up in the 1996 World Cup (17 years ago), but won the 2006 World Cup (7 years ago). That looks like an upward trajectory to me if we are looking at 25 years of data.

    France just played Georgia to 0-0 and is now 23rd in the FIFA rankings. Italy is #6 and has beat the #1 and #2 teams in the last two season and lost 2-1 to the third (Argentina). Are you serious?
    User avatar
    falcongoggles
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3342
    Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:46 pm
    Location: Florence, Italy


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:40 pm
  • Yeah Shark, you appear to be out of your element here...
    Colt 45 and two zig zags.
    User avatar
    peachesenregalia
    * NET Starfish *
     
    Posts: 11220
    Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:29 am
    Location: Helm's Deep


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:28 pm
  • I was unable to watch the game (was camping)...but from what I read it wasn't pretty.
    Image
    Man up, stand in line.
    User avatar
    Smurf
    * NET Fan Boy *
     
    Posts: 4373
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:08 am
    Location: Brier, WA


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:31 am
  • Smurf wrote:I was unable to watch the game (was camping)...but from what I read it wasn't pretty.


    Yeah Italy beat Bulgaria while the US lost to Costa Rica.
    User avatar
    falcongoggles
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3342
    Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:46 pm
    Location: Florence, Italy


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:53 am
  • peachesenregalia wrote:Yeah Shark, you appear to be out of your element here...



    apparently its my fault...

    I think the Costa Rica game simply exposes the USMNT's weaknesses as well Shark's flacid argument, which failed to address two simple points: 1. yes, the US is developing better soccer players, but so is the rest of the world (we've simply managed to organize our youth system to look more like Europe's, which has existed since the 60s). 2. while the current national team squads reflect a balance of youth and ageing experience, Shark doesnt seem to see the talent pool in Italy, Spain, England, Germany, etc. in the younger age groups. Italy finished 2nd in the u21 Euro Cup last year. This is what worries me about the USMNT. This very well may be the last chance in some time to make a run at something in the World Cup (our u21 team has yet to reveal any game changing talents, the 18s have two very good prospects, including a Liverpool academy player)

    Shit game for the US the other night (well, shit start). But I'm willing to let it go. I think they had a loss in their hearts before they even travelled down. I expect a better performance with a desperate Mexico squad. A win there and all is better
    Last edited by Uncle Si on Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5367
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:30 am
  • USMNT = United States Mutant Ninja Turtles? :|
    Image

    Super Bowl XLVIII Champions
    User avatar
    volsunghawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 8323
    Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:20 am
    Location: Right outside Richard Sherman's house


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:22 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    peachesenregalia wrote:Yeah Shark, you appear to be out of your element here...



    apparently its my fault...

    I think the Costa Rica game simply exposes the USMNT's weaknesses as well Shark's flacid argument, which failed to address two simple points: 1. yes, the US is developing better soccer players, but so is the rest of the world (we've simply managed to organize our youth system to look more like Europe's, which has existed since the 60s). 2. while the current national team squads reflect a balance of youth and ageing experience, Shark doesnt seem to see the talent pool in Italy, Spain, England, Germany, etc. in the younger age groups. Italy finished 2nd in the u21 Euro Cup last year. This is what worries me about the USMNT. This very well may be the last chance in some time to make a run at something in the World Cup (our u21 team has yet to reveal any game changing talents, the 18s have two very good prospects, including a Liverpool academy player)

    Shit game for the US the other night (well, shit start). But I'm willing to let it go. I think they had a loss in their hearts before they even travelled down. I expect a better performance with a desperate Mexico squad. A win there and all is better



    I can't wait for the US to dominate soccer like basketball and football, but we just aren't there yet. I see the vector with an upward trajectory and I think we'll close the gap quite a bit. I'd say we will see the US win a world cup in my life time (I'm 32).
    User avatar
    falcongoggles
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3342
    Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:46 pm
    Location: Florence, Italy


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:22 pm
  • USA had a great bounceback game against Mexico tonight.
    Image
    You are absolutely entitled to state your opinion whenever you wish, and I am absolutely entitled to point out the stupidity of that opinion with the same frequency.
    User avatar
    SeatownJay
    * NET Staff Alumni *
    * NET Staff Alumni *
     
    Posts: 6888
    Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:38 pm
    Location: Hagerstown, MD


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:53 am

Re: How good is the USMNT??
Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:09 am
  • falcongoggles wrote:US now ranked 13th in the last FIFA rankings. Spain, Argentina, Germany, Italy, and Colombia are ranked #1-5.

    http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/15512 ... rs?cc=5739


    this is why these rankings are nonsense. Columbia at #5? bollocks.
    Colt 45 and two zig zags.
    User avatar
    peachesenregalia
    * NET Starfish *
     
    Posts: 11220
    Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:29 am
    Location: Helm's Deep


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:16 am
  • or Uruguay at 7.. these are worse than ESPN's NFL power rankings.

    Either way, the US has done what it needed to do. This gives Klinsmann the chance to work through his lineup (specifically the backline) without relying on major players with lengthy club schedules to win games down the stretch (thank you Mexico)...

    I have a feeling the lineup for Brazil will look much different than the one we have seen these past few months. Thats on Klinsmann.
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5367
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: How good is the USMNT??
Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:02 am



It is currently Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:27 pm

Please REGISTER to become a member

Return to [ THE SPORTS BAR ]




Information
  • Who is online