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 Post subject: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 10:31 am 
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http://blog.thenewstribune.com/mariners ... called-up/

Montero's paralyzed-from-the-waist-down athletic style makes him limited as to playing first, but they're gonna try it in AAA. Looks like his future will probably be as a DH and part-time catcher. Sucre sounds interesting. Obviously they're just biding time until Zunino comes up, but he's still got some stuff to work out. I don't want to rush Zunino. Do you?

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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:41 am 
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It's a start and I'm actually surprised that they finally sent him down. But at the same time his playing time has gone way down lately. He can't hit, catch, throw runners out or run.

Now do the same thing with Ackley, his 1 hot streak a year is already over. They dont need to give up on him yet but send him own to work on things with less pressure on him.

Smoak has been doing a bit better lately so let's hope he can keep it up.

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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:46 am 
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Thank goodness.

It's time for Ackley to go down next. The guy has talent, but he just looks totally lost up there. Watch a game on Gameday and you can see that pitchers can just throw it over the outside part of the plate and he won't swing.

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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:07 pm 
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Montero was supposed to be the shizzot, and he is the latter. All of a sudden, a supposed strength is a weakness.

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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:20 pm 
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He's only 23, though, so I think you give him a few more years. God, if he only could catch JUST A LITTLE. Ackley and Smoak - those dudes are older - I think it's pretty much show or go.

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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:32 pm 
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I refused to believe that he could not play catcher, until this year when I've seen base stealing happen at will while he is behind the plate.

Good luck Jesus.

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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:03 pm 
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Here comes the new Jesus--same as the old Jesus... I hope not. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:06 pm 
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This was a good call. He needed to be sent down to AAA to work on his swing, he's just getting himself out in the majors and that can't happen.

Ackley on the other hand should NOT be sent down to AAA. His struggles are much different than Montero's. Not everyone young-ish player that is struggling should be optioned.

I would like to see Triunfel get promoted and take Andino's spot. I think Carlos should be playing SS on the Ms at least 4+ times a week.

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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:19 pm 
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Only Montero? Half the team should be in Triple AAA. You could probably include Smoak and Ackley with Montero. For pitchers Maurer should be sent down. Harang should be waived. Don't understand why he's still on the team.


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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:21 pm 
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I guess that an argument can be made that Montero needs AAA to figure out how to play first base and hit at the same time, but Ackley definitely could use some time in Tacoma in my opinion. He's just not swinging at anything over the outside half of the plate. He needs some confidence in tattooing AAA pitching over that part of the plate.

Of course, not being a batting coach, I have no clue at all if they can just straighten him out in the majors or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:23 pm 
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hawkfan68 wrote:
Only Montero? Half the team should be in Triple AAA. You could probably include Smoak and Ackley with Montero. For pitchers Maurer should be sent down. Harang should be waived. Don't understand why he's still on the team.

Why should Smoak be sent down?

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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 8:58 pm 
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I'm glad Mr "Wall Single" has been sent down! He is irritating as hell to watch!

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Last edited by Sports Hernia on Fri May 24, 2013 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:45 pm 
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The Mariners as a whole are embarrassing to watch

No heart, no desire, no character, nothing.

Blow this team up and start over


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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:11 am 
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He had two at bats last night and saw a total of 3 pitches.......


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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 12:20 pm 
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Another "can't miss" prospect just did. Sigh.

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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 12:21 pm 
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Shaz wrote:
The Mariners as a whole are embarrassing to watch

No heart, no desire, no character, nothing.

Blow this team up and start over

Blow the top up first i.e. Armstrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 12:25 pm 
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hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
Shaz wrote:
The Mariners as a whole are embarrassing to watch

No heart, no desire, no character, nothing.

Blow this team up and start over

Blow the top up first i.e. Armstrong.


Exactly. We've had talent on the field with bad results for about 10 years now. Replacing young talent with more young prospective talent only gets you so far. We're living proof of that.

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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:16 pm 
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Jack Z is the guy blowing all these calls. I don't get the fetish with firing Armsrong and the other guy who's name I can't remember--it reminds me of the pointless "fire Wally" bs. Jack Z should be fired.

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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:29 pm 
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Lords of Scythia wrote:
Jack Z is the guy blowing all these calls. I don't get the fetish with firing Armsrong and the other guy who's name I can't remember--it reminds me of the pointless "fire Wally" bs. Jack Z should be fired.

Who hired Z and all of the other bozo GM's and managers, Lincoln and Armstrong. As long as these 2 clowns are running the Mariners circus they are going to be a piss poor product! Sheet rolls down hill!

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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 4:26 pm 
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Wedgie's alright--he just doesn't have anything to work with. It's inexplicable what happens to these guys when they come up. I'm almost afraid to see Zunino come up. These young players hit great in AZ, then crap the bed in the pea soup Safeco atmosphere.

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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 9:40 am 
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If it was the past 3-4 years of crap then yeah fire jack z. But it's been more then a decade. It is ownership. Heck the owner of Nintendo who owns a majority of the team has not seen a live game in years. This team has some corner stones but shit falls down hill. And you start at Armstrong. Heck giving Felix money is the only thing giving the young guys hope to get money from the mariners. NO ONE wants to play here. The fact the Felix staying means he really does love it here. And the money was nice.

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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Sun May 26, 2013 8:50 pm 
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Hawkfan77 wrote:
hawkfan68 wrote:
Only Montero? Half the team should be in Triple AAA. You could probably include Smoak and Ackley with Montero. For pitchers Maurer should be sent down. Harang should be waived. Don't understand why he's still on the team.

Why should Smoak be sent down?


Because he has done jack squat since becoming a Mariner. He doesn't get hits on a consistent basis. He can't hit for a good avg nor does he provided needed power. He's basically a Brendan Ryan at first base.


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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 7:11 am 
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I don't think Wedge and the coaching staff should be immune from criticism as well. Ackley and Montero were considered can't miss by everyone, not just the Mariners. So what the hell is happening? The coaching staff has to have something to do with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 10:57 am 
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This, from the Tribune, just furthers my point:
"Before the season, you might recall, Franklin was among the prospects Zduriencik reportedly offered the Diamondbacks during trade talks for outfielder Justin Upton."

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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 3:07 pm 
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Some of the moves Wedge makes are baffling. He goes with the "hot bat" a lot over the hitting ability vs left handers, for example. He pulls pitchers when he has no one in the bullpen and acts shocked when they are blown out yet again.

Franklin in an Upton trade I would have been good with.


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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 4:34 pm 
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Upton just woulda been testroyed in Safeco, like all the rest of them I am afraid for Franklin.

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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 4:57 pm 
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Jack Z is by no means perfect, and has made some head-scratchers in his time, but 'can't-miss' prospects busting is not really a GM's fault. Your job is to acquire as much talent as possible in a way that puts your team in a position to succeed. What makes one prospect pan out and another fail? It's arguably unlikely to have much to do with the GM (I'm sure there are arguments to be made to the contrary, but bear with me).

Players like Ackley, Montero, and Smoak were considered LEAGUE-WIDE to be the best in baseball. People were AWED that we were able to somehow get both Montero and Smoak into our farm system, and Z was worthy of the accolades. They've struggled, and sure, that obviously is going to reflect negatively on Z, but I would argue that it shouldn't. If Bedard had gone on to win 5 Cy Youngs with the Mariners and Adam Jones et al had flamed out, it still would have been a bad trade. Sometimes bad moves work out, and sometimes good moves don't, but hopefully you hire someone who consistently makes good decisions that give you better odds of success.

I think of it like poker - you can go all in when you draw a 2/7 off-suit and win, but it doesn't make you a genius. It means you made a bad decision and got lucky. You can go all-in with pocket aces and lose. It doesn't mean you're dumb. It means you made a good decision and got unlikely. (I know there's a lot more to poker than this, but the metaphor holds).

Again, Z isn't perfect. He's done some things I really disagree with. But whereas Bavasi was making bad decisions which turned out bad, Z is making (generally) good decisions which aren't working out. The latter process is more likely to eventually yield results than the former.

I'm not saying Z should definitely keep his job, but I don't think he should definitely be fired. I would say the same for Wedge (though I don't like his managing style for a variety of reasons, I think he has little to do with the team's struggles). Discussions about ownership/Lincoln/Armstrong have been had and I won't rehash those.

As for the coaching staff and how they impact the development of prospects, it's really hard to say. The Mariners have sacrificed SO MANY hitting coaches and managers as scapegoats in this decade of suck that I find it hard to believe they have much to do with it. But it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility.


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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Wed May 29, 2013 6:25 am 
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Was Jack Z the one who traded Doug Fister for Charlie Furbush? If so, just another bad decision. Furbush is awful.


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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Wed May 29, 2013 7:13 am 
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hawkfan68 wrote:
Was Jack Z the one who traded Doug Fister for Charlie Furbush? If so, just another bad decision. Furbush is awful.

Don't forget we got Casper wells out of the trade too and he is gone now also.

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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Wed May 29, 2013 11:10 am 
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jkitsune wrote:
Jack Z is by no means perfect, and has made some head-scratchers in his time, but 'can't-miss' prospects busting is not really a GM's fault. Your job is to acquire as much talent as possible in a way that puts your team in a position to succeed. What makes one prospect pan out and another fail? It's arguably unlikely to have much to do with the GM (I'm sure there are arguments to be made to the contrary, but bear with me).

Players like Ackley, Montero, and Smoak were considered LEAGUE-WIDE to be the best in baseball. People were AWED that we were able to somehow get both Montero and Smoak into our farm system, and Z was worthy of the accolades. They've struggled, and sure, that obviously is going to reflect negatively on Z, but I would argue that it shouldn't. If Bedard had gone on to win 5 Cy Youngs with the Mariners and Adam Jones et al had flamed out, it still would have been a bad trade. Sometimes bad moves work out, and sometimes good moves don't, but hopefully you hire someone who consistently makes good decisions that give you better odds of success.

I think of it like poker - you can go all in when you draw a 2/7 off-suit and win, but it doesn't make you a genius. It means you made a bad decision and got lucky. You can go all-in with pocket aces and lose. It doesn't mean you're dumb. It means you made a good decision and got unlikely. (I know there's a lot more to poker than this, but the metaphor holds).

Again, Z isn't perfect. He's done some things I really disagree with. But whereas Bavasi was making bad decisions which turned out bad, Z is making (generally) good decisions which aren't working out. The latter process is more likely to eventually yield results than the former.

I'm not saying Z should definitely keep his job, but I don't think he should definitely be fired. I would say the same for Wedge (though I don't like his managing style for a variety of reasons, I think he has little to do with the team's struggles). Discussions about ownership/Lincoln/Armstrong have been had and I won't rehash those.

As for the coaching staff and how they impact the development of prospects, it's really hard to say. The Mariners have sacrificed SO MANY hitting coaches and managers as scapegoats in this decade of suck that I find it hard to believe they have much to do with it. But it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

I hear you--just like the Arron Curry pick. Making the concensus pick--unless it's Andy Luck--just shows you're operating with the herd. Thinking outside the box takes guts, and it's what seperates the great GMs. What players do you think we'd have on this team if John Schnieder was the GM?

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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 10:20 am 
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You're done sending Smoak down. He either succeeds or fails here in the MLB.

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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 10:33 am 
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hawkfan68 wrote:
Hawkfan77 wrote:
hawkfan68 wrote:
Only Montero? Half the team should be in Triple AAA. You could probably include Smoak and Ackley with Montero. For pitchers Maurer should be sent down. Harang should be waived. Don't understand why he's still on the team.

Why should Smoak be sent down?


Because he has done jack squat since becoming a Mariner. He doesn't get hits on a consistent basis. He can't hit for a good avg nor does he provided needed power. He's basically a Brendan Ryan at first base.


thats just not true... but he hasnt lived up to the hype of a top prospect... unfortunately. Sadly, his .240 ba and above .350 ops is a vast improvement to last year.


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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 10:34 am 
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Happypuppy wrote:
Some of the moves Wedge makes are baffling. He goes with the "hot bat" a lot over the hitting ability vs left handers, for example. He pulls pitchers when he has no one in the bullpen and acts shocked when they are blown out yet again.

Franklin in an Upton trade I would have been good with.



Wedge's time is near an end

thought he was a poor hire to begin with


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 Post subject: Re: Montero to AAA
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:53 am 
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Uncle Si wrote:
hawkfan68 wrote:
Hawkfan77 wrote:
Why should Smoak be sent down?


Because he has done jack squat since becoming a Mariner. He doesn't get hits on a consistent basis. He can't hit for a good avg nor does he provided needed power. He's basically a Brendan Ryan at first base.


thats just not true... but he hasnt lived up to the hype of a top prospect... unfortunately. Sadly, his .240 ba and above .350 ops is a vast improvement to last year.

"By the middle of this week, Mariners' first baseman Justin Smoak was on pace to finish this season with 558 plate appearances and 25 RBI. No first baseman in the history of the game -- well, unless you count Joe Agler of the 1914 Buffalo Buffeds from the Federal League -- has had 550 plate appearances with as few as 25 RBI in a season."

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