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 Post subject: I can't support Jack Zduriencik any longer
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:50 pm 
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It's one thing to have bad luck (see Figgins, Smoak trade). But lately, Jack Zduriencik isn't even making trades that look smart at the time. I won't turn this into a 2000 word treatise detailing every move, but I would like to focus on two in particular. The Fister trade was inexcusable. He traded a young, cheap, cost controlled good starter that was still improving. Fister has gone on to be one of the better pitchers in baseball. Zduriencik shouldn't have traded Fister at all, there was no need to, and he traded him for a 4th outfielder. It would be like Seattle trading Earl Thomas for Clinton McDonald.

Now today, Zduriencik just traded his best low cost player (John Jaso) for Mike Morse. The very same Mike Morse that Zduriencik traded away for peanuts three years ago. Mike Morse is older, more expensive, under contract for less time, and has less total value (WAR) than Jaso. You simply can't look at this move and not think "incompetence." It has come to the point where I actually dread hearing that the Mariners are in trade talks. Zduriencik is in a serious rut.

The Fister trade has already hurt the Mariners, and it was obvious the moment it happened that it was a huge mistake. While there is a tiny chance that the Jaso/Morse trade could be Jack's version of the Tapp/Clemons deal, I'd give that a very small chance of happening. John Schneider has a knack for having trades break his way. Jack Zduriencik has not.

I don't know when Zduriencik will be fired, but I am finally convinced that he will be in the near future. Taking an MLB team from the bottom to the top is extremely difficult because of a rich get richer system. It takes a brilliant GM to pull it off, not a guy that shoots himself in the foot more often than he shoots his target.


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 Post subject: Re: I can't support Jack Zduriencik any longer
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:07 pm 
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This is the worst trade Jack Z has made yet. One of the best hitters on the roster last year, the best catcher on the roster last year....for an older, injury-prone guy who is more expensive and has less years of control?

Just TERRIBLE. Jaso is going to be a fan favorite and breakout catcher this year in Oakland. They know how to actually use players like this, while idiot Wedge sat him on the bench most of the time.

Morse is going to get hurt and/or regress to being the player he was before his breakout.

This is just dumb.

Jack Z is starting to remind me of Ruskell. A guy who comes in, make some great changes, the team has a spike in wins and the fans fall in love with his genius.

Then we realize, too late, that he really is just a decent talent evaluator who has no idea how to put together a professional roster.

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 Post subject: Re: I can't support Jack Zduriencik any longer
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:38 pm 
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I am not a fan of this trade either......don't know how trading one of our most consistent and clutch hitters for a one hit wonder helps us in anyway........come'on man!

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 Post subject: Re: I can't support Jack Zduriencik any longer
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:11 pm 
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Meh.... Not a bad trade with the potential to be a good one but will probably be somewhere in between. I think that many are over valuing Jaso. With lack of financial backing (sorry I don't think they were serious on Hamilton) the GM needs to be creative for better or worse.

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 Post subject: Re: I can't support Jack Zduriencik any longer
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:47 pm 
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Wow, hadn't heard of this trade before. Trading Jaso is a silly, silly move. I'm starting to lose faith, although I have to admit, my level of faith in the Mariners has waned substantially in the last several months.

Maybe someday.


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 Post subject: Re: I can't support Jack Zduriencik any longer
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:06 pm 
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I think most M's fans need to realize that the M's will be crappy as long as Howard Lincoln is running things.

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 Post subject: Re: I can't support Jack Zduriencik any longer
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:09 pm 
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Overreaction alert.

Jaso is an OK player. People need to get over this. He was the best hitter (in a part-time role) last year on a TERRIBLE hitting team. On a good team, he's a ultility bench role player. The freaking sabremetric nerds caused such a shit storm yesterday over a player that doesn't matter ultimately.

As for the Jaso-Morse trade. Morse is a UFA after this season. If he plays half decent and the M's are out of it, given his power, they'll probably be able to trade him for something. And if they don't, they could end up getting draft pick compensation for him if he signs elsewhere after the season. Wouldn't have been the case with Jaso, who'd just have been a .270 hitting catcher that can't catch all that well for a handful of seasons. That isn't some irreplaceable piece to the puzzle. He was a nice guy who played well last year. But look at the dude's career. He's nothing crazy special.

Jack Z is working with his hands tied. Because M's ownership is so cheap, the franchise has been beaten down into a team no free agents want to play for. The only way he can get top players is by massively overplaying in trades like his Upton offer. And when he can't do that, he's forced to make these middle of the road, who gives a crap, tinkering moves like he has this year. Don't blame Jack. Blame Howard Lincoln and Chuck Armstrong. They rare responsible for the position the team finds itself in.

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 Post subject: Re: I can't support Jack Zduriencik any longer
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:15 pm 
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And Kearly. Did you seriously equate John Jaso to Earl Thomas? That's the dumbest thing I've ever read from you. lol. You might want to stick to football. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: I can't support Jack Zduriencik any longer
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:18 pm 
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I want Fister back for one reason; get his jersey but put Fister in quotes.

For real, it's all I think about.


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 Post subject: Re: I can't support Jack Zduriencik any longer
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:20 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: I can't support Jack Zduriencik any longer
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:23 pm 
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But his VAR!

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 Post subject: Re: I can't support Jack Zduriencik any longer
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:40 pm 
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For the record, I don't quite get what the M's are doing amassing all these mediocre 1b/DH types. Very odd. But I still don't give a crap about Jaso. Adding guys like Morales and Ibanez made Jaso less valuable to the team. Montero is going to be catching more now, and there won't be DH or 1b to play Jaso at any longer.

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 Post subject: Re: I can't support Jack Zduriencik any longer
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:15 pm 
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Jack Z. is terrible at trades. I'll give him that much. Look at what the starting rotation COULD be: Felix, Morrow, Fister, Dickey, Vargas/Pineda. That's as good of a 1-6 as there is in baseball. What do we have to show for giving up those guys? Montero. That's about it. Plus there is the Cliff Lee deal, but I knew they had no chance of keeping him. What they got in return ended up sucking though, especially the lack of research on one particular rapist.

Anyway... I've always firmly blamed Chuck and Howard, and still do. The team will suck until those two leave. Ownership has had at least three chances to fire both of them and turn the organization over to Gillick and has refused to do it. Howard has too much power and apparently the only person who can fire Howard or Chuck is Howard himself. He went and ruined Nintendo and his retirement present was the Mariners to run for fun. What a joke.

Gillick would need 2 years and he'd have this team turned around. He knows how to acquire hitters, and he has a vast network of front office types he'd put in below him for day-to-day operations. They refuse to do it though. They leave Howard the duck in place. I think Gillick's first order of business would be to fire Jack and bring in somebody who can make smart moves consistently. You win some, you lose some, but Z seems to lose about all of them and is hamstrung by ownership, but he could have done WAY better on a lot of his trades, and other trades he's made just for the fact that he feels like churning the roster and acquiring crappy hitters and unloading major league arms for no reason. Morrow for League? WHY???! Fister for a pile of crap? WHY?! His consistently bad trades puzzle me. The only one that was pretty good in my mind is the Montero trade, and I only say that because he traded a guy who had a throwing motion that was going to lead to an injury sooner than later. I still think he could have done better on Pineda if he'd traded him elsewhere. Like say for Upton. Pineda would have been a centerpiece in a multiplayer trade for Upton last year, but instead they work as the Yankees triple A team again.

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 Post subject: Re: I can't support Jack Zduriencik any longer
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:56 pm 
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C'mon third place!!! Sigh

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 Post subject: Re: I can't support Jack Zduriencik any longer
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:16 pm 
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Z is taking more chances now because he's getting closer to the hot seat the more the Ms are the team he built and they still suck. - if that makes sense.

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 Post subject: Re: I can't support Jack Zduriencik any longer
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:10 am 
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I will say that our draft picks over the span that Jack Z has been in place, have been mostly outstanding. And thus, the "Mariners are the best farm team in the MLB" moniker continues. Our starting 5 man rotation has the chance to be the premier rotation, or at least among the best, in the AL once our draft class reaches pro-level; many consider that to be this season.

I thiiiink, we have the hitting prowess (did I just say prowess?) to be a .500 team at long last, with our pitching carrying the brunt of the burden.

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 Post subject: Re: I can't support Jack Zduriencik any longer
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:55 am 
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So all this frustration comes to a head because we traded our backup catcher for a guy who will play everyday and will hit 20-30 home runs? Yeah, awful deal.

This lineup is far better than we've seen the last few years:

Dustin Ackley - 2B
Kyle Seager - 3B
Kendrys Morales - 1B
Mike Morse - LF
Jesus Montero - C
Raul Ibanez / Carlos Peguero DH
Michael Saunders - CF
Jason Bay / Eric Thames - RF
Brendan Ryan - SS

Bench:
Justin Smoak
New Backup Catcher
Two of: Liddi/Thames/Peguero/Wells/Gutierrez

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 Post subject: Re: I can't support Jack Zduriencik any longer
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:09 am 
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IBleedBlueAndGreen wrote:

This lineup is far better than we've seen the last few years:

Dustin Ackley - 2B
Kyle Seager - 3B
Kendrys Morales - 1B
Mike Morse - LF
Jesus Montero - C
Raul Ibanez / Carlos Peguero DH
Michael Saunders - CF
Jason Bay / Eric Thames - RF
Brendan Ryan - SS

Bench:
Justin Smoak
New Backup Catcher
Two of: Liddi/Thames/Peguero/Wells/Gutierrez



I guess it is all how you look at it. The mantra for the last few years was defense and pitching. I see at least 3 poor defensive players in LF, RF and catching

I also see an older team that bases a lot of hope on getting older players back to " good years numbers".

After the age of 28 , it is exceedingly rare for players to put up numbers that were as good as prior years without chemical enhancement. Where is the clear youth movement ?

I don't compare the team to itself in prior years. I compare it to its divisional competition as that is the real competition.

What I see is a rudderless ship yet again. 5 years ago it was "small ball" then "the kids" what is it now ?

I would much rather have seen them implement some of the PC thinking. if a Minor league player can't hack it when called up and a year or so in the Majors, trade them for another.

Sam Byrd one of the old time players for the Yankees used to say that you have to look for players that are young and stay around for more than a cup of coffee.

His point I think was to build a team in baseball you need young consistent players that show when they are in the majors, they will improve as time goes on like Russell Wilson.

This bunch I don't see anyone, so I would shuffle the deck again if I was making the call and wanted to build young and add young but expensive vets where needed

The trade is for a player you had already evaluated and said Next! IMO that is a large part of the Fan frustration


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 Post subject: Re: I can't support Jack Zduriencik any longer
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:01 am 
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The only two keepers I see in our positional player roles as we stand right now, for years to come, would be Seager and Ackley. Ackley needs to start swinging the bat like he did in college - he was a great contact hitter who always had great OBP. Would be a great 1-2 punch in the lineup, and in the infield. Our "who is on 1st?" game has gotten old. How I miss you, Olerud.

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 Post subject: Re: I can't support Jack Zduriencik any longer
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:37 pm 
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I like Jaso too, but welcome Morse.

The age argument is a joke. Jaso is what, a year or year and a half younger? He's not 24, he is 29. Factor in the fact that he is a catcher (part time or not) that becomes a wash, anyways...

I would have loved to keep Jaso. I think he is great as a backup catcher and a DH, while getting someone like Morse as well. Bay and Raul are more of a "eh?" in my opinion. I love Raul, but I don't exactly think he is what we need at this point in his career. I do agree that we have made some moves that are just terrible, no doubt. The age argument just needs to be thrown away and never come back because it is a bad one.

Furthermore, the real problem lies with Howard and Chuck.


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 Post subject: Re: I can't support Jack Zduriencik any longer
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:58 pm 
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This wasn't as bad of a trade as most people are trying to make it. Jaso is a part time all star (and by AS I mean he hit .275). Compared to the rest of the team last year that was incredible, but Morse is a solid ~.300 hitter with right handed power. We needed him, we don't need Jaso with Zunino coming up soon.

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 Post subject: Re: I can't support Jack Zduriencik any longer
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:14 am 
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Judging by the level of outrage here you'd think we just traded Johnny Bench for Mike Morse. Seriously guys, take a deep breath and get a grip.

In the grand scheme of things this trade makes no difference at all in changing the cold hard truth that we're playing for 3rd place in the AL West either way.


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 Post subject: Re: I can't support Jack Zduriencik any longer
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:49 am 
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The whole Mariners organization from the Ownership on down need to be purged and deleted from history.

Same ol' front office crap from the M's, and from what the operations side has been doing to F up the Arena deal for the Sonics is quickly making me less a fan nowadays for this Franchise, they are starting to forget their place


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