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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 1:58 pm 
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TheRealDTM wrote:
Yes they can actually. They can invoke the best interest clause, as was done in New Orleans, and then secure a sale of the team to a local owner who has the intent to make a good faith negotiation with the city to build an arena. They will match the original 525 million figure, and then say the first bid was the only one they see as binding and since they are matching that the maloofs have no legal recourse.



"What David Stern wants..." indeed


The ball would then be in HBN's court, they would have to sue saying the NBA colluded to disrupt their binding transaction, of course then Stern would threaten no NBA ever if we don't settle out of court. Then....

Also Sterns threats carry no weight anymore, Seattle played nice and still got hosed! Stern has already used the threat card and it carries about much power as a 3 year olds tantrum!

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 2:31 pm 
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It was Shinn's idea to have the NBA buy the Hornets, not a hostile takeover by the NBA. That hasn't been done before and it would be an almost guaranteed losing proposition by the NBA. I think it's extremely unlikely they even try that, no matter what Stern wants.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 3:30 pm 
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A takeover would be stupid for reasons i outline earlier.

But I don't understand why some are still afraid to go to war with the NBA? What's the worse that happens? They tell us we'll never get a team? And we're back to where we have been the past five years but with peace of mind that we will never be used again? I'm down with it. We cannot be used as a threat. It's happened once with the Hornets when the NBA was trying to find a buyer you'd hear things about them possibly coming to Seattle, and now this.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 3:38 pm 
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The NBA doesn't have the resources to fight this battle. Everything you're hearing in the media is good news for Sonics fans.

Remember, it's always the guy with the losing position who makes the most noise. If the NBA had any options, and didn't already know the owners intended to approve sale to Hansen, you wouldn't be hearing any of this stuff.

And I can tell you the Seattle side has zero intention to quit. Been telling y'all for a minute now. Trust me. Seattle is in it to win it and they got the big boys at the table just waiting for Stern to hit the red button first. But that won't happen because the last thing the owners want is a battle that opens their books. Remember, they were just telling the NBAPA how poor they are. You really think the NBA wants a suit in court with buyer, seller and employees as plaintiff? I'll go ahead and answer that one. That's be a big NO.

Anyway, little bird says things are just getting rolling. You ain't seen nothing yet


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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 3:53 pm 
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I should add that little birdy tells me negotiations look good for Seattle bid. There's a rumor owners intend to vote for Hansen deal and NBA is hustling behind the scenes to make Hansen group happy and go away. No intention to do so.

This could all be wrong but so far little birdy has been pretty spot on, even when literally everyone else was saying opposite stuff.

To add, rumor about owner support is strong. Birdy had good reason to believe and strategy is being put together as if it's a pretty sure thing. Again, might mean nothing, is not coming from the NBA so who knows what happens in the end. All I know is that it makes sense and fits in with everything I've heard. If you were an owner and a second rate team sold for that much would you turn it down? What would that do for Miami, LA, etc. Those teams would be worth a cool billion overnight. Who turns down a billion?


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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 3:58 pm 
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Y'all should also remember that stern is an employee who works for the owners. He doesn't get to just make stuff up as he goes along, so relax. All that best interest stuff has no chance if the owners pick the Hansen bid.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 4:00 pm 
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HansGruber wrote:
Remember, it's always the guy with the losing position who makes the most noise. If the NBA had any options, and didn't already know the owners intended to approve sale to Hansen, you wouldn't be hearing any of this stuff.



I'm sorry i'm not following the logic here. The NBA isn't making much noise, at all. It's the HBN group doing the bell ringing.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 4:09 pm 
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TheRealDTM wrote:
HansGruber wrote:
Remember, it's always the guy with the losing position who makes the most noise. If the NBA had any options, and didn't already know the owners intended to approve sale to Hansen, you wouldn't be hearing any of this stuff.



I'm sorry i'm not following the logic here. The NBA isn't making much noise, at all. It's the HBN group doing the bell ringing.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 4:11 pm 
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TheRealDTM wrote:
HansGruber wrote:
Remember, it's always the guy with the losing position who makes the most noise. If the NBA had any options, and didn't already know the owners intended to approve sale to Hansen, you wouldn't be hearing any of this stuff.



I'm sorry i'm not following the logic here. The NBA isn't making much noise, at all. It's the HBN group doing the bell ringing.

I think he was talking about Sac making the noise. Hansen has made basically no "noise", unless you count real action noise.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 4:12 pm 
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TheRealDTM wrote:
HansGruber wrote:
Remember, it's always the guy with the losing position who makes the most noise. If the NBA had any options, and didn't already know the owners intended to approve sale to Hansen, you wouldn't be hearing any of this stuff.



I'm sorry i'm not following the logic here. The NBA isn't making much noise, at all. It's the HBN group doing the bell ringing.

I think he was talking about Sac making the noise. Hansen has made basically no "noise", unless you count real action noise.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 4:13 pm 
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No it was the Sac group making the noise, the NBA or Stern kissing Sacramentos ass with nothing showing anywhere, Hansen just reacted to the situation with ACTION, something nobody else has done. The ACTION was reported and now the NBA and Sacramento are in re - ACTION mode and still have no plan and are looking worse every day.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 4:20 pm 
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@TedGaines: We will not stand by and allow Sacramento to be pushed around by out of state billionaires trying to do an end run. #NBAKings

He's a california state senator FYI


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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 4:23 pm 
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Trying to buy an asset from the owners of said asset is an end run?


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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 4:26 pm 
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Well he's wrong, Hansen works and lives in San Francisco.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 4:29 pm 
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Pstark3 wrote:
@TedGaines: We will not stand by and allow Sacramento to be pushed around by out of state billionaires trying to do an end run. #NBAKings

He's a california state senator FYI

Another politician spouting off, sigh.........Being a politician he should be well aware on how the world works. (see he who has the most $$$ usually wins, as sucky as that might be)

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 10:09 pm 
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So what is California going to do, pass a law in less then a week that forbids selling to people outside the state?

Or have the State put up the 1 billion dollars to buy and build a arena in Sacramento? They still have to break laws due to the contract already in place with the Maloofs. Secondly where is the reason for the NBA to reject Hansens offer period. His is first best and complete with all the money on the table and a 30 million good faith payment already paid. The contract was done weeks ago, I can't see anything being passed that would be retrocative to the first of the year and legal in the first place. I suppose someone could go over the contract with a fine tooth comb but I don't think the Hansen and Balmer group have lawyers that are prone to mistakes and this group has been very plodding in how they make sure duck in a row, act, next phase ducks in a row act. The NBA and Sacramento have been throw at a dart board hoping something sticks.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 1:52 am 
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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:14 am 
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Welp, now that Phil Jackson officially isn't coming up to help save my Raptors i'm back to being all in on Seattle getting the team.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:50 am 
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Wow.....The relocation committee will have a new vote in light of all the cheddar.

Pulling out all the stops for what is likely our only shot at a franchise in Seattle.

I would switch allegiances.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:59 am 
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Atradees wrote:
Wow.....The relocation committee will have a new vote in light of all the cheddar.

Pulling out all the stops for what is likely our only shot at a franchise in Seattle.

I would switch allegiances.


Its not exactly a new vote, two weeks ago was just a recommendation. 15th is the final vote where it becomes official.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 6:32 am 
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This thread is deadly, the ups and downs are killing me!


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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 6:41 am 
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Spokane wrote:
This thread is deadly, the ups and downs are killing me!

well its probably gonna peak sometime during the next 3 days...


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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 6:49 am 
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Might peak today depending if we get a leak, or official news from the meeting/conference call today. But Wednesday is most definitely the day where ish will hit the fan.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 6:52 am 
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interesting...

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Jour ... ights.aspx

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:42 am 
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Throwdown wrote:

maybe i'm slow.. but how does this relate to our situation?


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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:56 am 
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I don't know about anyone else but I'm getting sick of the expansion talk and to make both cities "whole" again. Such BS. Did the NBA give a rip about Seattle when they took the Sonics to OKC? Nope, Stern threatened the city with never getting the NBA back and our "leaders" caved.

The league is already too big with 30 teams. The talent is diluted and the product as of now is pretty weak. Adding another team (purely from a talent perspective) makes the product even weaker. The league needs to stop messing around and Stern needs to remove himself from this situation quickly. Seattle has by far put together the best offer and the best interest for the league is to NOT expand and to give Seattle the Kings. But that would make too much sense for some like the Sith Lord Stern...

Something better leak today and it better be good news for Seattle. This has gone on long enough and what Stern is doing to Hansen and Ballmer is the sleaziest of sleazy moves.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:39 am 
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Hawkfan77 wrote:
I don't know about anyone else but I'm getting sick of the expansion talk and to make both cities "whole" again. Such BS. Did the NBA give a rip about Seattle when they took the Sonics to OKC? Nope, Stern threatened the city with never getting the NBA back and our "leaders" caved.

The league is already too big with 30 teams. The talent is diluted and the product as of now is pretty weak. Adding another team (purely from a talent perspective) makes the product even weaker. The league needs to stop messing around and Stern needs to remove himself from this situation quickly. Seattle has by far put together the best offer and the best interest for the league is to NOT expand and to give Seattle the Kings. But that would make too much sense for some like the Sith Lord Stern...

Something better leak today and it better be good news for Seattle. This has gone on long enough and what Stern is doing to Hansen and Ballmer is the sleaziest of sleazy moves.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:00 am 
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I wonder what changed between then and now.

http://nba.si.com/2012/10/26/maloofs-sacramento-kings-seattle-david-stern/?xid=si_nba

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Between now and his departure, Stern is determined to get a franchise back into Seattle, league sources said, and has become a strong ally of Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer’s group to bring back the NBA there. Ballmer’s group has been trying to get the Maloof family to sell the Sacramento Kings, so that the franchise can eventually play in a new arena in Seattle.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:03 am 
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“But our goal here is to keep all of our teams where they are,” Stern said, “but recognizing that that hasn’t been a goal that we have successfully achieved in the past.”

Stern is a damn idiot


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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:14 am 
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JOz56 wrote:
I wonder what changed between then and now.

http://nba.si.com/2012/10/26/maloofs-sacramento-kings-seattle-david-stern/?xid=si_nba

Quote:
Between now and his departure, Stern is determined to get a franchise back into Seattle, league sources said, and has become a strong ally of Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer’s group to bring back the NBA there. Ballmer’s group has been trying to get the Maloof family to sell the Sacramento Kings, so that the franchise can eventually play in a new arena in Seattle.


Who knows........it is Stern were talking about.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:18 am 
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“But our goal here is to keep all of our teams where they are,” Stern said, “but recognizing that that hasn’t been a goal that we have successfully achieved in the past.”

Stern is a damn wonderful human being


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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:28 am 
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Man......lots of articles and narrative being thrown out there making the Seattle group to look like the bully in this whole situation.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
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Blitzer88 wrote:
Man......lots of articles and narrative being thrown out there making the Seattle group to look like the bully in this whole situation.


Meh. We know first hand the true matter of business. I could care less of what anybody thinks of us at this point.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:43 am 
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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
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Last edited by TheRealDTM on Mon May 13, 2013 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:49 am 
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Like I have always said in my eys this man is and always will be a sonic!
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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:54 am 
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Just because I hate it when I come back here and find nothing new to read...

Quote:
There's still no reason for the NBA to delay expansion to Seattle


http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/5/13/4 ... avid-stern

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:58 am 
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E.C. Laloosh wrote:
Just because I hate it when I come back here and find nothing new to read...

Quote:
There's still no reason for the NBA to delay expansion to Seattle


http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/5/13/4 ... avid-stern

I think it's a little too late for that.. Hansen's made it clear he wants the Kings


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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:15 am 
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Now saved in my pic folder .... will get plenty of use.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
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The NBA conference call is over, they have nothing for the public at this time, no recommendations were made.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
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TheRealDTM wrote:
The NBA conference call is over, they have nothing for the public at this time, no recommendations were made.


I don't like hearing that.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:55 am 
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Blitzer88 wrote:
TheRealDTM wrote:
The NBA conference call is over, they have nothing for the public at this time, no recommendations were made.


I don't like hearing that.


I wouldn't read into it. Lot of work to do...

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:56 am 
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Blitzer88 wrote:
TheRealDTM wrote:
The NBA conference call is over, they have nothing for the public at this time, no recommendations were made.


I don't like hearing that.


Would you have rather heard that they recommended that Sac isn't sold to Hansen?

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:57 am 
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AbsolutNET wrote:
Blitzer88 wrote:
TheRealDTM wrote:
The NBA conference call is over, they have nothing for the public at this time, no recommendations were made.


I don't like hearing that.


Would you have rather heard that they recommended that Sac isn't sold to Hansen?

Exactly, what I read about this conference call was that it was just to recap what's happened since the recommendation. There wasn't supposed to be another vote. Hansen and Sac both get to talk to the BOG before the vote on Wednesday

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 12:10 pm 
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AbsolutNET wrote:
Blitzer88 wrote:
TheRealDTM wrote:
The NBA conference call is over, they have nothing for the public at this time, no recommendations were made.


I don't like hearing that.


Would you have rather heard that they recommended that Sac isn't sold to Hansen?


Yes.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 12:17 pm 
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E.C. Laloosh wrote:
Image


When is this pic from? It looks recent considering he is in Memphis in the pic.

This shit makes me sad, seriously. To think I grew up with 80's and 90's Sonics and to see this guy playing in a city 150 miles away from where I am now. My son asks me if Seattle ever had a team and it makes me bitter we don't have one of the best teams in the NBA like we should, had they stayed. I hope we get our team back, I hope Durant comes back when his OKC contract runs out, I have faith it will happen.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 12:17 pm 
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SacHawk2.0 wrote:
AbsolutNET wrote:

Would you have rather heard that they recommended that Sac isn't sold to Hansen?


Yes.


Somebody give this ...person... a temporary vacation.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 12:34 pm 
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JOz56 wrote:
I wonder what changed between then and now.

http://nba.si.com/2012/10/26/maloofs-sacramento-kings-seattle-david-stern/?xid=si_nba

Quote:
Between now and his departure, Stern is determined to get a franchise back into Seattle, league sources said, and has become a strong ally of Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer’s group to bring back the NBA there. Ballmer’s group has been trying to get the Maloof family to sell the Sacramento Kings, so that the franchise can eventually play in a new arena in Seattle.


What changed is that Sacramento suddenly spread their legs and started offering up public revenue streams to cover the majority of the arena. IMO, this has never been about "saving Sacramento" - that's just PR to cover up Stern's main goal: protecting the League's ability to have cities pay for their arenas/infrastructure, while leaving the Owners free to share in all the operating revenues from the teams. (When Sacramento was unwilling to pay for an arena, then Seattle was an attractive option, as soon as Sacramento started piecing together an offer, the Seattle immediately went back to being more useful as a threat/leverage)

Easy way to look at it is like this: Hansen's proposal borrows from the City to build the arena (and Hansen is ultimately responsible for overruns and is on the hook for paying it all back) Sacramento's proposal limited what their Owners pay up front and then the City gives them $$$ to cover everything else (and when there are overruns or revenues fall short, the NBA doesn't give a damn, they just tell Sacto to keep forking over the $$$ to cover it)

The way the NBA's revenue sharing is set up, teams have to cover their operating expenses before paying into the pot that the rest of the Owners share. This is what doomed the Sonics to begin with in Key Arena. Making the bond payments to the City took a big chunk out of the bottom line and made the team less valuable to the other owners than it looked on paper.

This is why modern Pro-Sports economics seem so counter-intuitive: From the NBA's perspective, it's more profitable to have a struggling team playing in a building where someone else is paying the majority of operating costs than to have a successful team that pays it's own way.

Hansen's proposal is great for the fans & city of Seattle. He's confident he'll make his money back over the long-term with it. And it does help the NBA by raising overall franchise values. However, when individual Owners look at it, they're going to see 2 main drawbacks:
1. It sets a bad precedent for how much of their own money they'll be expected to chip in for future arena improvements/construction
2. It weakens their leverage to extract public $$$ from their own markets in the future. (because Seattle's removed as a relocation threat, and because Sacramento opened wide with public funds but couldn't guaranteed keeping the team)

That's why Hansen has had to raise his offer to such astronomical proportions and make guarantees about the revenue sharing to make the other Owners think twice. Given the choice between a loan or a gift, the Owners are always going to choose the gift.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 12:58 pm 
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vedthree wrote:
JOz56 wrote:
I wonder what changed between then and now.

http://nba.si.com/2012/10/26/maloofs-sacramento-kings-seattle-david-stern/?xid=si_nba

Quote:
Between now and his departure, Stern is determined to get a franchise back into Seattle, league sources said, and has become a strong ally of Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer’s group to bring back the NBA there. Ballmer’s group has been trying to get the Maloof family to sell the Sacramento Kings, so that the franchise can eventually play in a new arena in Seattle.


What changed is that Sacramento suddenly spread their legs and started offering up public revenue streams to cover the majority of the arena. IMO, this has never been about "saving Sacramento" - that's just PR to cover up Stern's main goal: protecting the League's ability to have cities pay for their arenas/infrastructure, while leaving the Owners free to share in all the operating revenues from the teams. (When Sacramento was unwilling to pay for an arena, then Seattle was an attractive option, as soon as Sacramento started piecing together an offer, the Seattle immediately went back to being more useful as a threat/leverage)

Easy way to look at it is like this: Hansen's proposal borrows from the City to build the arena (and Hansen is ultimately responsible for overruns and is on the hook for paying it all back) Sacramento's proposal limited what their Owners pay up front and then the City gives them $$$ to cover everything else (and when there are overruns or revenues fall short, the NBA doesn't give a damn, they just tell Sacto to keep forking over the $$$ to cover it)

The way the NBA's revenue sharing is set up, teams have to cover their operating expenses before paying into the pot that the rest of the Owners share. This is what doomed the Sonics to begin with in Key Arena. Making the bond payments to the City took a big chunk out of the bottom line and made the team less valuable to the other owners than it looked on paper.

This is why modern Pro-Sports economics seem so counter-intuitive: From the NBA's perspective, it's more profitable to have a struggling team playing in a building where someone else is paying the majority of operating costs than to have a successful team that pays it's own way.

Hansen's proposal is great for the fans & city of Seattle. He's confident he'll make his money back over the long-term with it. And it does help the NBA by raising overall franchise values. However, when individual Owners look at it, they're going to see 2 main drawbacks:
1. It sets a bad precedent for how much of their own money they'll be expected to chip in for future arena improvements/construction
2. It weakens their leverage to extract public $$$ from their own markets in the future. (because Seattle's removed as a relocation threat, and because Sacramento opened wide with public funds but couldn't guaranteed keeping the team)

That's why Hansen has had to raise his offer to such astronomical proportions and make guarantees about the revenue sharing to make the other Owners think twice. Given the choice between a loan or a gift, the Owners are always going to choose the gift.

Great summary, man. The way you broke it down, it makes a lot of sense why Stern is pushing so hard for Sac.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
 Post Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 1:22 pm 
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How has no one brought up Clay Bennett receiving money for Sonics Merchandising? That obviously gives him a Sacramento bias, he shouldn't even have a vote, much less be the chairman.

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