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NBA returning to Seattle?

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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 10:18 am
  • Pstark3 wrote:“But our goal here is to keep all of our teams where they are,” Stern said, “but recognizing that that hasn’t been a goal that we have successfully achieved in the past.”

    Stern is a damn wonderful human being


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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 10:28 am
  • Man......lots of articles and narrative being thrown out there making the Seattle group to look like the bully in this whole situation.
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 10:35 am
  • Blitzer88 wrote:Man......lots of articles and narrative being thrown out there making the Seattle group to look like the bully in this whole situation.


    Meh. We know first hand the true matter of business. I could care less of what anybody thinks of us at this point.
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 10:43 am
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 10:47 am
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    Last edited by TheRealDTM on Mon May 13, 2013 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 10:49 am
  • E.C. Laloosh wrote:Image


    Like I have always said in my eys this man is and always will be a sonic!
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 10:54 am
  • Just because I hate it when I come back here and find nothing new to read...

    There's still no reason for the NBA to delay expansion to Seattle


    http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/5/13/4 ... avid-stern
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 10:58 am
  • E.C. Laloosh wrote:Just because I hate it when I come back here and find nothing new to read...

    There's still no reason for the NBA to delay expansion to Seattle


    http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/5/13/4 ... avid-stern

    I think it's a little too late for that.. Hansen's made it clear he wants the Kings
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 11:15 am
  • SeaTown81 wrote:Image

    Now saved in my pic folder .... will get plenty of use.
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 11:51 am
  • The NBA conference call is over, they have nothing for the public at this time, no recommendations were made.
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 11:54 am
  • TheRealDTM wrote:The NBA conference call is over, they have nothing for the public at this time, no recommendations were made.


    I don't like hearing that.
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 11:55 am
  • Blitzer88 wrote:
    TheRealDTM wrote:The NBA conference call is over, they have nothing for the public at this time, no recommendations were made.


    I don't like hearing that.


    I wouldn't read into it. Lot of work to do...
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 11:56 am
  • Blitzer88 wrote:
    TheRealDTM wrote:The NBA conference call is over, they have nothing for the public at this time, no recommendations were made.


    I don't like hearing that.


    Would you have rather heard that they recommended that Sac isn't sold to Hansen?
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 11:57 am
  • AbsolutNET wrote:
    Blitzer88 wrote:
    TheRealDTM wrote:The NBA conference call is over, they have nothing for the public at this time, no recommendations were made.


    I don't like hearing that.


    Would you have rather heard that they recommended that Sac isn't sold to Hansen?

    Exactly, what I read about this conference call was that it was just to recap what's happened since the recommendation. There wasn't supposed to be another vote. Hansen and Sac both get to talk to the BOG before the vote on Wednesday
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 12:10 pm
  • AbsolutNET wrote:
    Blitzer88 wrote:
    TheRealDTM wrote:The NBA conference call is over, they have nothing for the public at this time, no recommendations were made.


    I don't like hearing that.


    Would you have rather heard that they recommended that Sac isn't sold to Hansen?


    Yes.
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 12:17 pm
  • E.C. Laloosh wrote:Image


    When is this pic from? It looks recent considering he is in Memphis in the pic.

    This shit makes me sad, seriously. To think I grew up with 80's and 90's Sonics and to see this guy playing in a city 150 miles away from where I am now. My son asks me if Seattle ever had a team and it makes me bitter we don't have one of the best teams in the NBA like we should, had they stayed. I hope we get our team back, I hope Durant comes back when his OKC contract runs out, I have faith it will happen.
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 12:17 pm
  • SacHawk2.0 wrote:
    AbsolutNET wrote:
    Would you have rather heard that they recommended that Sac isn't sold to Hansen?


    Yes.


    Somebody give this ...person... a temporary vacation.
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 12:34 pm
  • JOz56 wrote:I wonder what changed between then and now.

    http://nba.si.com/2012/10/26/maloofs-sacramento-kings-seattle-david-stern/?xid=si_nba

    Between now and his departure, Stern is determined to get a franchise back into Seattle, league sources said, and has become a strong ally of Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer’s group to bring back the NBA there. Ballmer’s group has been trying to get the Maloof family to sell the Sacramento Kings, so that the franchise can eventually play in a new arena in Seattle.


    What changed is that Sacramento suddenly spread their legs and started offering up public revenue streams to cover the majority of the arena. IMO, this has never been about "saving Sacramento" - that's just PR to cover up Stern's main goal: protecting the League's ability to have cities pay for their arenas/infrastructure, while leaving the Owners free to share in all the operating revenues from the teams. (When Sacramento was unwilling to pay for an arena, then Seattle was an attractive option, as soon as Sacramento started piecing together an offer, the Seattle immediately went back to being more useful as a threat/leverage)

    Easy way to look at it is like this: Hansen's proposal borrows from the City to build the arena (and Hansen is ultimately responsible for overruns and is on the hook for paying it all back) Sacramento's proposal limited what their Owners pay up front and then the City gives them $$$ to cover everything else (and when there are overruns or revenues fall short, the NBA doesn't give a damn, they just tell Sacto to keep forking over the $$$ to cover it)

    The way the NBA's revenue sharing is set up, teams have to cover their operating expenses before paying into the pot that the rest of the Owners share. This is what doomed the Sonics to begin with in Key Arena. Making the bond payments to the City took a big chunk out of the bottom line and made the team less valuable to the other owners than it looked on paper.

    This is why modern Pro-Sports economics seem so counter-intuitive: From the NBA's perspective, it's more profitable to have a struggling team playing in a building where someone else is paying the majority of operating costs than to have a successful team that pays it's own way.

    Hansen's proposal is great for the fans & city of Seattle. He's confident he'll make his money back over the long-term with it. And it does help the NBA by raising overall franchise values. However, when individual Owners look at it, they're going to see 2 main drawbacks:
    1. It sets a bad precedent for how much of their own money they'll be expected to chip in for future arena improvements/construction
    2. It weakens their leverage to extract public $$$ from their own markets in the future. (because Seattle's removed as a relocation threat, and because Sacramento opened wide with public funds but couldn't guaranteed keeping the team)

    That's why Hansen has had to raise his offer to such astronomical proportions and make guarantees about the revenue sharing to make the other Owners think twice. Given the choice between a loan or a gift, the Owners are always going to choose the gift.
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 12:58 pm
  • vedthree wrote:
    JOz56 wrote:I wonder what changed between then and now.

    http://nba.si.com/2012/10/26/maloofs-sacramento-kings-seattle-david-stern/?xid=si_nba

    Between now and his departure, Stern is determined to get a franchise back into Seattle, league sources said, and has become a strong ally of Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer’s group to bring back the NBA there. Ballmer’s group has been trying to get the Maloof family to sell the Sacramento Kings, so that the franchise can eventually play in a new arena in Seattle.


    What changed is that Sacramento suddenly spread their legs and started offering up public revenue streams to cover the majority of the arena. IMO, this has never been about "saving Sacramento" - that's just PR to cover up Stern's main goal: protecting the League's ability to have cities pay for their arenas/infrastructure, while leaving the Owners free to share in all the operating revenues from the teams. (When Sacramento was unwilling to pay for an arena, then Seattle was an attractive option, as soon as Sacramento started piecing together an offer, the Seattle immediately went back to being more useful as a threat/leverage)

    Easy way to look at it is like this: Hansen's proposal borrows from the City to build the arena (and Hansen is ultimately responsible for overruns and is on the hook for paying it all back) Sacramento's proposal limited what their Owners pay up front and then the City gives them $$$ to cover everything else (and when there are overruns or revenues fall short, the NBA doesn't give a damn, they just tell Sacto to keep forking over the $$$ to cover it)

    The way the NBA's revenue sharing is set up, teams have to cover their operating expenses before paying into the pot that the rest of the Owners share. This is what doomed the Sonics to begin with in Key Arena. Making the bond payments to the City took a big chunk out of the bottom line and made the team less valuable to the other owners than it looked on paper.

    This is why modern Pro-Sports economics seem so counter-intuitive: From the NBA's perspective, it's more profitable to have a struggling team playing in a building where someone else is paying the majority of operating costs than to have a successful team that pays it's own way.

    Hansen's proposal is great for the fans & city of Seattle. He's confident he'll make his money back over the long-term with it. And it does help the NBA by raising overall franchise values. However, when individual Owners look at it, they're going to see 2 main drawbacks:
    1. It sets a bad precedent for how much of their own money they'll be expected to chip in for future arena improvements/construction
    2. It weakens their leverage to extract public $$$ from their own markets in the future. (because Seattle's removed as a relocation threat, and because Sacramento opened wide with public funds but couldn't guaranteed keeping the team)

    That's why Hansen has had to raise his offer to such astronomical proportions and make guarantees about the revenue sharing to make the other Owners think twice. Given the choice between a loan or a gift, the Owners are always going to choose the gift.

    Great summary, man. The way you broke it down, it makes a lot of sense why Stern is pushing so hard for Sac.
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 1:22 pm
  • How has no one brought up Clay Bennett receiving money for Sonics Merchandising? That obviously gives him a Sacramento bias, he shouldn't even have a vote, much less be the chairman.
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 1:30 pm
  • This isn't good for us:

    Chris Daniels ‏@ChrisDaniels5 51s
    Minor note: An NBA spokesperson says there is NO committee meeting or conference call scheduled for tomorrow. #NBAKings
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 1:34 pm
  • Your so cute when you get worried
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 1:41 pm
  • TOUCHDOWN SEAHAWKS!!
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 1:52 pm
  • TheRealDTM wrote:How has no one brought up Clay Bennett receiving money for Sonics Merchandising? That obviously gives him a Sacramento bias, he shouldn't even have a vote, much less be the chairman.


    Clay Bennett doesn't get the money directly. The money goes to the NBA and the owners split the revenue. So yeah, he's getting money. But no different than the money he gets from merch from any other team.

    Clay is most definitely biased, however. He owes David Stern everything for how Stern helped him get his franchise. So him being the head of the relocation committee might as well be considered David Stern's surrogate.
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 1:56 pm
  • Blitzer88 wrote:This isn't good for us:

    Chris Daniels ‏@ChrisDaniels5 51s
    Minor note: An NBA spokesperson says there is NO committee meeting or conference call scheduled for tomorrow. #NBAKings



    I thought it was the 15th..?
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 1:56 pm
  • Blitzer88 wrote:This isn't good for us:

    Chris Daniels ‏@ChrisDaniels5 51s
    Minor note: An NBA spokesperson says there is NO committee meeting or conference call scheduled for tomorrow. #NBAKings

    Not necessarily bad, either
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 2:00 pm
  • Brian Windhorst ‏@WindhorstESPN 6m
    NBA relocation committee met today on future of Kings. Their recommendation to owners for vote next week remains to leave team in Sacramento


    Not quite sure if this is news or if he's just stating that no new recommendation was made.
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 2:01 pm
  • The Outfield wrote:
    Brian Windhorst ‏@WindhorstESPN 6m
    NBA relocation committee met today on future of Kings. Their recommendation to owners for vote next week remains to leave team in Sacramento


    Not quite sure if this is news or if he's just stating that no new recommendation was made.

    Sounds to me like they met today and agreed that this wasnt enough to change their decision. Which honestly I dont think anything ever will
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 2:02 pm
  • Blitzer88 wrote:This isn't good for us:

    Chris Daniels ‏@ChrisDaniels5 51s
    Minor note: An NBA spokesperson says there is NO committee meeting or conference call scheduled for tomorrow. #NBAKings


    Image
    Image
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 2:04 pm
  • Blitzer,

    Stay away from all things electronic for the next 48 hours
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 2:10 pm
  • Nobody should be shocked here. This is what happened today. The Clay Bennett led relocation committee got on the phone and confirmed with each other that they aren't changing their decision.

    Clay Bennett runs this thing. David Stern tells Clay Bennett what to do. David Stern isn't backing down. This was expected.
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 2:11 pm
  • The official meetings aren't until Wednesday, no reason for them to have meetings every day about it up until then.
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 2:12 pm
  • I'm so worn out from this and tired of it being dragged on....
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 2:13 pm
  • ...that's what she said...
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 2:14 pm
  • F.U. Clay Bennett
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 2:17 pm
  • Windhorst made a typo. Relocation vote is still this week...

    Brian Windhorst ‏@WindhorstESPN 4m
    Sorry, typo in last tweet. I forgot we were already in next week. NBA owners expected to vote on Kings relocation THIS week, Wednesday.
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 2:20 pm
  • This tells me he didn't really hear anything except that the recommendation didn't change... which isn't a huge deal. If the recommendation changes, they might have to wait another week and maybe they don't want to do that.
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 2:46 pm
  • Read an article that stated that Hansen/Balmer dealing with Maloofs without his input has Stern bothered. KJ has included Stern in every move Sacramento has made.
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 2:47 pm
  • Chris Daniels was just on with Softy. Said that Hansen and co. and Sac group will both give one last presentation to the BOG on Wednesday before the relocation vote.
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 2:49 pm
  • The Outfield wrote:This tells me he didn't really hear anything except that the recommendation didn't change... which isn't a huge deal. If the recommendation changes, they might have to wait another week and maybe they don't want to do that.

    According to Chris Daniels the recommendation didn't change because there was never going to be a vote. This meeting was just to get the committee up to speed on the recent bid change by Hansen. Nothing more.
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 2:54 pm
  • Hawkfan77 wrote:
    The Outfield wrote:This tells me he didn't really hear anything except that the recommendation didn't change... which isn't a huge deal. If the recommendation changes, they might have to wait another week and maybe they don't want to do that.

    According to Chris Daniels the recommendation didn't change because there was never going to be a vote. This meeting was just to get the committee up to speed on the recent bid change by Hansen. Nothing more.


    Exactly. Easy to say "they didn't change their mind on relocation" when that wasn't the discussion. Just as accurate (and equally pointless) to say, "they didn't change their mind about peeing on an electric fence being bad for your health".
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 3:43 pm
  • Nothing that happens this week is going to sway my opinion - good or bad. I'm pretty sure it will be one of the following: the NBA will delay the BoG vote, or the full BoG will vote "No" on the relocation. (and the media will go nuts about it, another round of sky-is-falling, etc)

    But nothing matters until the full BoG votes on the sale. They'll try and put it off as long as possible, and in the meantime make hollow threats to H/B/N about keeping them in Sacto - but they're just screaming because Seattle has them by the balls. The only out the NBA has is if H/B/N voluntarily withdraws their purchase offer, and that obviously ain't happening without an expansion team to buy him off. This week is just the NBA getting in it's last round of pointless chest-pounding.

    1. If the Sale's approved, the Kings' are immediately on the way here. None of the prior relocation votes matter, because Sacramento then longer has an arena plan (it was contingent on their owner group putting in $250M
    2. If the Sale's rejected, then the real fireworks begin - because that's when both the Maloofs' & H/B/N can file their Anti-Trust cases. And then the true genius of the back-up offer comes into play. Maloofs still own them and are now flush with cash to operate a lame-duck franchise for 1-2 seasons, and Sacto's arena deal still evaporates. Then H/B/N just sit back and let the Maloofs do the dirtywork of Bennetting the team out of Sacto next season. (not to mention Hansen has ROFR as minority owner if the NBA is stupid enough to try and keep the local ownership group in play)

    That's the Ace H/B/N slammed on the table - "Swallow your medicine, take a PR hit you can quickly recover from and give us the Kings now ... or sit through 1-2 years of Sacto getting the same scorched-earth treatment Seattle got while it also hits your bottom line in revenue sharing & TV negotiations - your choice."
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 4:10 pm
  • Love what you're selling vedthree. I'm just wondering why we haven't heard more legal experts making the statement that H/B/N have more firm legal footing. Most of the reports that I see (from neutral parties) claim that he "might" have "some" grounds for a case but that chances are not good for success.

    Hans has been quick to reassure us that legally, H/B/N are more than solid but this doesn't explain why we're not hearing similar things from other sources.
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 4:11 pm
  • E.C. Laloosh wrote:Love what you're selling vedthree. I'm just wondering why we haven't heard more legal experts making the statement that H/B/N have more firm legal footing. Most of the reports that I see (from neutral parties) claim that he "might" have "some" grounds for a case but that chances are not good for success.

    Hans has been quick to reassure us that legally, H/B/N are more than solid but this doesn't explain why we're not hearing similar things from other sources.


    David Aldridge did a piece were he cited an anonymous memo from a legal expert that said HBN have grounds for a Anti Trust Lawsuit. It's for real.
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 4:15 pm
  • TheRealDTM wrote:David Aldridge did a piece were he cited an anonymous memo from a legal expert that said HBN have grounds for a Anti Trust Lawsuit. It's for real.


    Some guy wrote something citing an anonymous source stating that one group has grounds for legal action against another.

    Now that DOES sound legit.
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 4:15 pm
  • TheRealDTM wrote:
    E.C. Laloosh wrote:Love what you're selling vedthree. I'm just wondering why we haven't heard more legal experts making the statement that H/B/N have more firm legal footing. Most of the reports that I see (from neutral parties) claim that he "might" have "some" grounds for a case but that chances are not good for success.

    Hans has been quick to reassure us that legally, H/B/N are more than solid but this doesn't explain why we're not hearing similar things from other sources.


    David Aldridge did a piece were he cited an anonymous memo from a legal expert that said HBN have grounds for a Anti Trust Lawsuit. It's for real.


    Have a link?
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 4:17 pm
  • SacHawk2.0 wrote:
    TheRealDTM wrote:David Aldridge did a piece were he cited an anonymous memo from a legal expert that said HBN have grounds for a Anti Trust Lawsuit. It's for real.


    Some guy wrote something citing an anonymous source stating that one group has grounds for legal action against another.

    Now that DOES sound legit.

    Some guy? :34853_doh:
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 4:17 pm
  • SacHawk2.0 wrote:
    TheRealDTM wrote:David Aldridge did a piece were he cited an anonymous memo from a legal expert that said HBN have grounds for a Anti Trust Lawsuit. It's for real.


    Some guy wrote something citing an anonymous source stating that one group has grounds for legal action against another.

    Now that DOES sound legit.


    SacHawk, please... just... don't. :poundhead:
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 4:20 pm
  • Found it...

    A memo I have obtained details a potential framework for legal action, citing the Sherman Act's prohibition against group boycotts. In this instance, the (unauthored) memo argues, the league would be vulnerable to a lawsuit by the Hansen group based on the Haywood case won by Spencer Haywood against the league in 1971. That case allowed Haywood to sign a contract to play in the NBA despite not having graduated from college, the existing rule at the time for eligibility. Haywood successfully argued that financial hardship necessitated him coming into the league immediately.
    The memo's author argues that Hansen could successfully sue the NBA because if owners vote to reject the sale of the team to him, they would be engaging in a similar group boycott that the Supreme Court ruled was illegal in the Haywood case.

    http://www.nba.com/2013/news/features/d ... index.html
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Re: NBA returning to Seattle?
Mon May 13, 2013 4:29 pm
  • E.C. Laloosh wrote:
    SacHawk2.0 wrote:
    TheRealDTM wrote:David Aldridge did a piece were he cited an anonymous memo from a legal expert that said HBN have grounds for a Anti Trust Lawsuit. It's for real.


    Some guy wrote something citing an anonymous source stating that one group has grounds for legal action against another.

    Now that DOES sound legit.


    SacHawk, please... just... don't. :poundhead:


    What? :grin:
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