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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:06 pm 
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Salk is very adamant that this is just political posturing. He feels this is a small bump in the road. He thinks this is something Hansen should and did expect. Hansen is smart enough to know you don't lead with your best offer otherwise you have nothing to negotiate.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:10 pm 
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Still, Hansen's "worst/first" offer is a damn sight better than A) expected, B) required, and C) evidently deserved.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:43 pm 
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Man.....how much more is Hansen gonna take from the city........I mean I get political posturing.....but when does it get too much?

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:47 pm 
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I don't think Hansen ever thought his proposal was going to get through unchanged, or that his contribution would be only what he pledged originally. Dude is a savvy businessman, he knows your first offer won't likely be your final offer. The City Council has said that they still would like to vote by August 20th, so if the CC and Hansen can hash it out, we might still get the vote done. Apparently nothing being said about having to pass SEPA prior to the MOU being accepted, so who knows, this could end up being a good thing. Just will depend on how fast the negotiating goes, but I think it's safe to say both the CC and Hansen know that Bellevue is lurking in the shadows to some extent, so the sooner they get this done the better.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:49 pm 
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I hate to be a naysayer but I don't think Seattle government really gives a shit about getting another team.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:59 pm 
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Hawksfanatik wrote:
I hate to be a naysayer but I don't think Seattle government really gives a shit about getting another team.

I'm not sure many politicians in any city do. They're interested in getting their pound of flesh by slapping something on the MOU (just like they do bills) so they can go to their constituents and say "SEE! Look what I did!" Hansen expected that, or else he came in unprepared to deal with politicians.

I actually think the ball is rolling better than it was 2 days ago right now. The CC has laid out what they're looking for, their first line of negotiations basically, as opposed to just general negative sentiment and worry from the council. I think they want this to happen, but on their terms. They want to gain political capital out of this. It's shameful, but it's nothing any of us should be surprised by. It's politics. Everybody who puts their hands on this wants their stamp on it. The CC is the biggest example, as they want to get a) the regard for helping get us a new arena and team(s) AND b) to please the anti-arena folk by bleeding Hansen dry/getting some of the things the opponents are hollering for. They'll meet somewhere in the middle and this will get done. I believe it.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:55 pm 
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Quote:
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Council woman Julia Patterson: "When we’re done with our vote today, the arena is not going to be built." #SeattleArena


What a wonderful woman.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:58 pm 
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Unfuckinbelievable


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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:59 pm 
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People who can actually vote in this area better correct some mistakes come next election.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:44 pm 
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Seahawk Sailor wrote:
Quote:
Tim Booth ‏@ByTimBooth
Council woman Julia Patterson: "When we’re done with our vote today, the arena is not going to be built." #SeattleArena


What a wonderful woman.


Wow.........

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:54 pm 
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JOz56 wrote:
People who can actually vote in this area better correct some mistakes come next election.


Yep.

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Julia Patterson continues to remind council mates that they may have to vote again.

Jonathan Dalar ‏@JonathanDalar
@Softykjr Julia Patterson continues to remind the rest of us Seattle voters that we will be voting again too.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:57 pm 
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She must have seen my tweet. That's the story I'm stickin' to anyway.

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Julia Patterson says she voted against Safeco and Century Link. But "this is different." Says she will vote yes.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:03 pm 
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Me thinks we have a bunch of CC members straddleing a fence and speaking out both sides of their mouths depending on which audience they have.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:09 pm 
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Just heard on the news, the Port is saying that the arena will cost 4000 jobs at the arena site, I thought these numers were already crunched and that Port job loss was going to be pretty much nothing and or if anything some would be moved possibly to Tacoma's port so no losses at all.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:35 pm 
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4-3 in favor of yes with 2 votes to go, says Q13 news

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:41 pm 
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Passed! 6-3 in favor.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:42 pm 
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So what does this mean now?!

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:43 pm 
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What's the next step?

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:44 pm 
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Msfann wrote:
Passed! 6-3 in favor.


WooHoo!!!!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:45 pm 
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That was the county council, next is the city council I think.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:46 pm 
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Next step will be Hansen negotiating with the SCC to work towards their requests. Hopefully they meet somewhere in the middle, get a vote, and it passes. From there it'd go back to KCC for approval of the new MOU that features the KCC and SCC amendments. I'd be surprised if any of today's yes votes flip when it comes back.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:49 pm 
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Any additional amendments will only sweeten the deal for any revote by the County.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:51 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:52 pm 
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Is it safe to start getting excited?


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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:54 pm 
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-The Glove- wrote:
Is it safe to start getting excited?

Quarter-way, not full boner.

It was already expected to pass through the KCC, as the county doesn't have a lot of skin in the game. We've still got the biggest challenge ahead, and that's dealing with the SCC. Heard it described on KJR as not the time to jump up and scream, but a silent fist bump is reasonable.

Long ways to go, though.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:56 pm 
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pinksheets wrote:
-The Glove- wrote:
Is it safe to start getting excited?

Quarter-way, not full boner.

It was already expected to pass through the KCC, as the county doesn't have a lot of skin in the game. We've still got the biggest challenge ahead, and that's dealing with the SCC. Heard it described on KJR as not the time to jump up and scream, but a silent fist bump is reasonable.

Long ways to go, though.

Alright, okay...still keeping my hopes up


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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:03 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:09 pm 
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City Council has a dilemma, they took money from Bennett to pay down the maintenence costs thinking that someone would fix it up and all would be good, they never believed Hansen existed, they now have a Arena made for 1964 that is out of date old and in the center of the city that can't be easliy renovated to something else. They felt it would be able to host concerts and other events to keep revenue coming in. They bombed there as well, Casinos, Kent, and Evertt as well as the Tacoma Dome take possible engagements away from them.

The shortfalls of the Key have been preached and re preached since the Ackerly days yet the council is to short sighted and stubbourn to understand or admit them. Now they want a bail out from Hansen, I'm betting a long term bail out, not just the time it would take to build the new arena. They also want additional highway revenue to be paid into a the city coffers from the new Arenas income. Again someone to pay for the short sightedness of the Council in area development. Hansen already said he would work to improve the area around the Sodo area, I'm betting the city wants him to pay for improvements around the Key. They also want the Key to be a viable venue for other events, another bill to be paid by Hansen that had they not the long term vision to see coming.

I'm hoping that Hansen has a back up plan or an Ace up his sleeve. This amendment in full would be millions in additional contributions by the ownership proposal group.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:48 pm 
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I'm not arguing with you, Chris, but that's just stupid. By the council. Key Arena isn't really a good venue for anything - not a good NBA arena, a poor concert venue, not profitable even without the new arena, etc. Once the new arena is built, why keep it around? Find another use for that land or find a way for Key Arena to support itself. Hansen is going to pump money in to make the Key better in the short term, it'll have every chance to succeed (or, more likely, fail). Fund the Storm? It's small change so I don't see why not, but what a petty move.

I've heard of stronger language to protect the city vs overruns, protect the city's loan, make the team truly stuck in Seattle, etc. That stuff is reasonable, it wouldn't be right for professional negotiators to take the first offer on a huge investment. But some of these demands I'm hearing sound like they're trying to provoke Hansen into taking the deal off the table or at least going to Bellevue.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:04 pm 
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Well I didn't add that the city wants to see all the finacials of all the investment group members as well as the business plan and what they plan to use the profits for as well how much they expect them to be etc.

I thought Hansen already provided all the information finacially that was required, I think the city wants to be considered a participating partner as one of the group. Not as a entity securing bonds that they will get paid back on plus the property and upgrades at the end of the lease.

No wonder Ackerley, Schultz and then Bennett threw there hands in the air and either sold or moved out.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:12 pm 
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Debate between Salk, O'Brien, Steinbreuck, and Albro will be streaming here. Right now it looks like things are moving late and you can spy on people eating dinner.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:13 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:36 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:18 am 
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Smurf wrote:
So what does this mean now?!


Means we've won one battle, now the city council is the 2nd battle, the third and probably easiest battle is acquiring a team. Then we're on our way! But a lot can change between these battles so we'll have to wait and see.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:36 am 
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If yesterday's letter from the city council scared the crap out of you (and I don't blame you), read Mike Salk's article. Really level-headed analysis.

http://mynorthwest.com/422/714895/Counc ... supporters

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:48 am 
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SeaTown81 wrote:
If yesterday's letter from the city council scared the crap out of you (and I don't blame you), read Mike Salk's article. Really level-headed analysis.

http://mynorthwest.com/422/714895/Counc ... supporters


I still don't get it, IMO this is horrible. This has the Ports finger prints all over it.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:09 am 
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Hansen is on with Brock and Salk RIGHT NOW!

But if you miss it, he'll be on with Softy afterwards

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:53 am 
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Chris said today exactly what I expected of him. He is going to be reasonable in negotiations. But not going to be taken advantage of or bullied.

We need to contact the city council members and let them know that we are watching closely! That we support them negotiating for the best deal, but to not push it too far. Fair is fair. It’s fair that the SCC tries to negotiate the best deal they can get, and for their members to spin it as a political win for them. But it’s also fair that they are reasonable in negotiations and do this the right way.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:09 am 
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http://www.sonicsarena.com/news/thank-you

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After the County vote I hopped on the ferry back home, grabbed a Corona, stretched my legs out, sat on the deck with the sun on my face, and took a quiet, peaceful moment to reflect on the day. This was a very big step, and I just hope all of our supporters appreciate that. There is a long way to go, and I am in no way trying to imply that this is a done deal yet... just that the struggle for things you hold dear is what life is really about. All the letters you wrote and the heartfelt testimony you provided was heard. And it mattered. You should all take a deep breath, smile and appreciate the significance of this day.

— Chris Hansen

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:11 am 
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SeaTown how was the atmosphere of the debate? The awful audio quality didn't give much but a few jeers towards Steinbreuck. I wasn't impressed with the "moderators" personally, felt they pretty much only asked the opposition to react to supposed problems with the project and asked the pro-arena representatives to react to supposed problems with the project. There was also something very humorous about declaring this an "adult discussion" while also taking timeouts to hold Ichiro bobblehead trivia contests.


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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:01 pm 
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Last night was a ton of fun. I sat with the guys from SonicsGate. If you watched the debate online, you likely heard us yelling a time or two. The atmosphere was cool. It was mostly pro-arena. Max Vekich and his wife were sitting up front and being loud and obnoxious. But other than them and a couple other Port people, it was mostly supportive. Cheers for Mike Salk ripping Tom Albro and Peter Steinbrueck. At times raucous jeers for Steinbrueck.

Mike Salk was on FIRE. Love that dude. He absolutely killed Albro and Steinbrueck on separate occasions. Steinbrueck was exactly what he is, a sniveling weasel playing his baseless fear-mongering game. Going off about how the deal was made in secret (which did nothing but set up Salk to call him out for his relationship with the Port and hidden discussions that took place prior. Albro was the politician he is, looking out for his company’s interests. Said a bunch of whatever. And Mike O’Brien really was great. Super cool, very smart. Played the role of peacemaker as opposed to Salk’s rabid bulldog. All in all, a good conversation, IMO. It once again hammered home the fact that the Port does nothing but repeat it's rhetoric and try to scare everyone. Salk and O'Brien were CLEARLY the two smartest guys on that panel, and it showed.

They took written questions from the audience. Was disappointed they only asked a couple. But got mine chosen. Brought up the fact that the Port gets about $75 million a year in public subsidy from property taxes, so why can’t the Port team with the city and Hansen on the needed infrastructure improvements. He went on to give a very political answer about how the Port already does that and looks out for the environment, blah blah. Mainly, I just wanted it reiterated that the Port gets public money, and them crying with their hand out constantly is disingenuous.

As for the moderators. I was split. I don't know their names. But I thought the guy did a fairly decent job being even-handed. The girl, Erica, I think, she was exactly what you said, Pink. Set up the Port to make their tired old claims, and put the hard questions on the pro guys. She said something ridiculous at one point about will people with strollers want to walk a mile to the arena. In actuality her stupid questions only set up Salk and O'Brien that much better. Like I said before, they were both on point. Felt really good about how they came off as opposed to Steinbrueck and Albro.

They’ll be posting the audio later. I suggest listening if you didn’t watch last night. It was a hoot.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:16 pm 
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SeaTown81 wrote:
Last night was a ton of fun. I sat with the guys from SonicsGate. If you watched the debate online, you likely heard us yelling a time or two. The atmosphere was cool. It was mostly pro-arena. Max Vekich and his wife were sitting up front and being loud and obnoxious. But other than them and a couple other Port people, it was mostly supportive. Cheers for Mike Salk ripping Tom Albro and Peter Steinbrueck. At times raucous jeers for Steinbrueck.

Mike Salk was on FIRE. Love that dude. He absolutely killed Albro and Steinbrueck on separate occasions. Steinbrueck was exactly what he is, a sniveling weasel playing his baseless fear-mongering game. Going off about how the deal was made in secret (which did nothing but set up Salk to call him out for his relationship with the Port and hidden discussions that took place prior. Albro was the politician he is, looking out for his company’s interests. Said a bunch of whatever. And Mike O’Brien really was great. Super cool, very smart. Played the role of peacemaker as opposed to Salk’s rabid bulldog. All in all, a good conversation, IMO. It once again hammered home the fact that the Port does nothing but repeat it's rhetoric and try to scare everyone. Salk and O'Brien were CLEARLY the two smartest guys on that panel, and it showed.

They took written questions from the audience. Was disappointed they only asked a couple. But got mine chosen. Brought up the fact that the Port gets about $75 million a year in public subsidy from property taxes, so why can’t the Port team with the city and Hansen on the needed infrastructure improvements. He went on to give a very political answer about how the Port already does that and looks out for the environment, blah blah. Mainly, I just wanted it reiterated that the Port gets public money, and them crying with their hand out constantly is disingenuous.

As for the moderators. I was split. I don't know their names. But I thought the guy did a fairly decent job being even-handed. The girl, Erica, I think, she was exactly what you said, Pink. Set up the Port to make their tired old claims, and put the hard questions on the pro guys. She said something ridiculous at one point about will people with strollers want to walk a mile to the arena. In actuality her stupid questions only set up Salk and O'Brien that much better. Like I said before, they were both on point. Felt really good about how they came off as opposed to Steinbrueck and Albro.

They’ll be posting the audio later. I suggest listening if you didn’t watch last night. It was a hoot.


Thanks for the insight Seatown, you have really helped me through this process by breaking down all the happenings, it is greatly appreciated!

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:57 pm 
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No problem. My pleasure.

One thing I wanted to add to my comments above regarding the Publicola debate. Mike Salk said it on the radio today and I totally agree with him. Mike O’Brien was really impressive. He’s clearly a smart guy and understands all the complicated aspects of the deal, while also is able to explain them to people who don’t or are trying to sensationalize the facts. While Salk played the role of rabid bulldog, O’Brien was the peacemaker explaining the merit’s of the deal, along with the fact the city council is trying to make it a win-win. He was very cool and collected.

Which leads me to my point. When I first saw O’Brien’s name on the letter yesterday, I was bothered. He has been supportive up to this point. So why jump in on the big mean letter? O’Brien spoke with Sally Clark and Tim Burgess at the press conference yesterday regarding the letter. That to me was key in believing Clark and Burgess when they say they are trying to work towards a yes. O’Brien clearly is supportive on this. I just think he understands the reality of the situation. He’s doing everything he can to make sure his fellow council members do not follow Richard Conlin off to the dark side. By participating in the letter and working along side Burgess and Clark, he’s doing a lot to help the negotiations run smoothly and hopefully fairly, IMO. That’s the vibe I’m getting after hearing O’Brien speak at the debate last night. Sure hope I’m right. Because if Sally Clark and Tim Burgess are telling us the truth that they want to make this happen and are willing to be fair, I see absolutely no way this can’t and won’t pass.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:47 pm 
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If passed, how long do you guys think it would take to construct the arena, ready for play?

Would it be using the Safeco garage for parking, or would another parking facility for the arena need to be built? Not sure how much real estate is involved is why I'm asking...

Hope this gets done!!! :th2thumbs:


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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:18 pm 
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SeaTown you are definitely an extremely needed breath of fresh air and great source during all this

Thank you


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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:41 pm 
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Lieutenant Dan wrote:
If passed, how long do you guys think it would take to construct the arena, ready for play?

Would it be using the Safeco garage for parking, or would another parking facility for the arena need to be built? Not sure how much real estate is involved is why I'm asking...

Hope this gets done!!! :th2thumbs:


It will take a couple years to build. Conventional wisdom is they'd have to play at Key Arena for a couple seasons. Not sure about how parking is going to work. Hansen's land is going to involve more than just an arena. Details not exactly known yet.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:09 pm 
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Awesome recap Seatown! Thanks for keeping us informed! :)

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:41 pm 
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Awesome stuff. Love that we have so many vested Sonic fans on this board.

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:17 pm 
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Good news to go with the onslaught of stupidity from the anti-arena clownshoes. I get so irritated watching anything on this because it's such a great plan, well thought out, well proposed, and still the chuckleheads do everything they can to oppose it. They're like a bad movie villain, whose only role is to thwart and defeat the good guys by whatever means necessary, even if it means their very lives. Pathetic.

Also who's the muttonchopped dude in Sonics gear I keep seeing at all the meetings and on the news. The one that looks a little like Werewolf in London. He's hardcore Sonics, that's for sure! Anyone here?

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 Post subject: Re: NBA/NHL/ARENA in Seattle thread...
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:11 pm 
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Seahawk Sailor wrote:
Good news to go with the onslaught of stupidity from the anti-arena clownshoes. I get so irritated watching anything on this because it's such a great plan, well thought out, well proposed, and still the chuckleheads do everything they can to oppose it. They're like a bad movie villain, whose only role is to thwart and defeat the good guys by whatever means necessary, even if it means their very lives. Pathetic.

Also who's the muttonchopped dude in Sonics gear I keep seeing at all the meetings and on the news. The one that looks a little like Werewolf in London. He's hardcore Sonics, that's for sure! Anyone here?

You talking about Sonics Guy? He's from Tacoma, but he's always at Sonics events in his fan gear. I ran the Sound to Narrows and he was there with a couple other Sonics fans waving his big Sonics flags and spreading the word.


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