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Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...

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Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:28 am
  • Not a lot of info yet, but some commentary, at least. ;)

    Mariners again are stuck in the middle entering baseball’s offseason

    The Mariners are too good to break apart, not good enough to go all-out for it, and the best-case scenario likely is claiming the AL's second wild-card. That’s a tenuous landscape upon which to enter the offseason.

    Now that baseball’s postseason is over, it’s time to focus on a harsh truth: The gap between the Mariners and the champion Red Sox is vast. It was there for the world to see in October.

    That goes for Seattle and the Astros and Yankees as well. Mariners general manager Jerry Dipoto acknowledged as much when he met with the media shortly after their season ended. He was asked if the Mariners were considering a tear-it-down model, as so many organizations have done, and he explained that it didn’t make sense for a team with a solid young core that had just won 89 games – despite analytics and a three-month slump that indicate a much lower base.


    “There’s no reason for us to start from scratch,” he said.

    So I asked him if they would then address their deficiencies from the opposite direction, by going heavily into the free-agent market to fill holes that their barren farm system can’t. He said that didn’t make sense, either.


    Like an 8-8 football team, not low enough in the draft to get stars, not good enough to attract FAs. :?

    https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/mar ... offseason/
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:32 am
  • Span is gone and they aren't bringing back Cruz by the sounds of it.

    I'd try and get rid of Felix to be honest and eat any salary.

    I feel each year they delay the rebuild and we end up in that weird limbo place.

    Restock the farm and try to compete in a few years.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:45 am
  • Glasgow Seahawk wrote:Span is gone and they aren't bringing back Cruz by the sounds of it.

    I'd try and get rid of Felix to be honest and eat any salary.

    I feel each year they delay the rebuild and we end up in that weird limbo place.

    Restock the farm and try to compete in a few years.

    Can't say I disagree, but there's some tough choices in there. I wish they'd bring Cruz back if they could. The whole "King" thing should be killed, regardless if Felix is still on the roster. It's gone beyond pathetic. Move the Maple Grove down stairs.

    Looks like Edgar is stepping back, too. He won't be the primary hitting coach going forward. I guess you could say that it didn't work as well as we hoped.

    I agree about the farm system. We realy needs some work and patience there.
    Talent can get you to the playoffs.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:47 am
  • I might be in the minority here, but everyone and I mean everyone should be available for trade.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:39 pm
  • They either need to go full on into a complete rebuild (trade Haniger, Diaz, Segura, etc), or they need to really commit to putting together a super team to compete with the likes of Boston, Houston, and NY. They are very much stuck in the middle with a mediocre team, like an 8-8 football team. However, the major difference is that in baseball there is no salary cap! If they really wanted to they could buy there way into the playoffs. Go get Bryce Harper to pair with Haniger. Go get Corbin or Keuchel. If you're going to go for it then go for it like that, all in. I just hope they choose one way or the other though. No more of this mediocrity garbage.

    ...and no, it's not enough to just make the playoffs either in my opinion. If you aren't building a team that could actually win a WS then don't bother!

    Boston had the highest payroll in baseball this year at 240M, hmm, I wonder why they won it all? The Mariners were 12th at 161M. If we're not able or willing to spend 200M+ this next year to win then just sell and rebuild.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:47 pm
  • sutz wrote:Now that baseball’s postseason is over, it’s time to focus on a harsh truth: The gap between the Mariners and the champion Red Sox is vast. It was there for the world to see in October.


    This is true for every team in baseball other than maybe the Astros and the Yankees, and even for them it still looks like a clear gap to me, just not a vast one.

    This is also true for the NL Champion Dodgers. It was not a very competitive World Series and it was crystal clear who the better team was.

    Not really sure what anyone can do about it either. If you expect or hope that the Mariners (or any other team) can put a team together as good as the Red Sox in one off season, you're probably going to be disappointed. It's just not very likely that any team could pull that off. The Red Sox have a really, really good team.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:23 pm
  • Chapow wrote:
    sutz wrote:Now that baseball’s postseason is over, it’s time to focus on a harsh truth: The gap between the Mariners and the champion Red Sox is vast. It was there for the world to see in October.


    This is true for every team in baseball other than maybe the Astros and the Yankees, and even for them it still looks like a clear gap to me, just not a vast one.

    This is also true for the NL Champion Dodgers. It was not a very competitive World Series and it was crystal clear who the better team was.

    Not really sure what anyone can do about it either. If you expect or hope that the Mariners (or any other team) can put a team together as good as the Red Sox in one off season, you're probably going to be disappointed. It's just not very likely that any team could pull that off. The Red Sox have a really, really good team.

    Point of order. That quote is from the article I linked. Not my words.

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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:42 am

Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:41 pm
  • :34853_doh: this is exactly what I don't want to hear. Don't do a halfway rebuild. If you're going to do it, those are exactly the guys you need to trade.



    I'm really hoping that statement is more just posturing to keep teams from undervaluing those guys. Don't want to give teams the fire sale impression, because when you go to a fire sale you expect to get things at a discount...
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:17 pm
  • DJrmb wrote::34853_doh: this is exactly what I don't want to hear. Don't do a halfway rebuild. If you're going to do it, those are exactly the guys you need to trade.



    I'm really hoping that statement is more just posturing to keep teams from undervaluing those guys. Don't want to give teams the fire sale impression, because when you go to a fire sale you expect to get things at a discount...

    Well, I would offer that Haniger and Diaz are generational talents that you don't jettison. Gonzalez, not so much maybe, but our history is full of players that we let go and thrived elsewhere, and Haniger and Diaz look like that kind of guy.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:50 pm
  • Honestly, the only guy I absolutely positively want to see back next year is Haniger. He's still really young and under club control for a long time. Seager, Zunino, Segura, Gordon, Cano, FELIX, Paxton, Diaz..... Get what you can for these guys and move on. If this team doesn't go all in for a full rebuild, it would be a major disappointment and a slap in the face to us fans. Dipoto better make it right. He's been a major factor in this teams ills the last few years. I still can't believe he received an extension mid season. Such a stupid decision.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:19 pm
  • We have some good trade bait..lets go Astro and do a complete rebuild, can't be any worse than it has been since 01.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:22 am
  • If this is the road they're going, you keep Segura-he's only 28 and under club control through '23 (yes he's paid $14 mil a year but he's worth it). You then keep Haniger, Paxton, Diaz. The Yankees and Red Sox never give up top arms so imitate them and Paxton and Diaz stay. Gonzales is not a top arm and can be dealt. Get rid of everyone else.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:57 am
  • West TX Hawk wrote:If this is the road they're going, you keep Segura-he's only 28 and under club control through '23 (yes he's paid $14 mil a year but he's worth it). You then keep Haniger, Paxton, Diaz. The Yankees and Red Sox never give up top arms so imitate them and Paxton and Diaz stay. Gonzales is not a top arm and can be dealt. Get rid of everyone else.

    I do agree with what you said but the Yankees and Sox never rebuild so that is
    where we part.I say if we are in complete rebuild then sell all for max return.
    I would keep Mitch as the one piece to stay if that's a choice.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:35 am
  • West TX Hawk wrote:If this is the road they're going, you keep Segura-he's only 28 and under club control through '23 (yes he's paid $14 mil a year but he's worth it). You then keep Haniger, Paxton, Diaz. The Yankees and Red Sox never give up top arms so imitate them and Paxton and Diaz stay. Gonzales is not a top arm and can be dealt. Get rid of everyone else.


    But.. those are really your only viable trade chips..

    We were one of the oldest teams, with a huge payroll..(I think) and we need to get younger, with good young positional players that can shrink the payroll so that, we can aquire starters that seem are only available as expensive Free agents.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:55 am
  • I get people wanting to keep Haniger or Diaz because they are really good (Generational talents is a bit of a stretch though I think). However, that's the exact thinking that has kept us in this mediocrity for all these years. Haniger will be 28 this season and if we're talking about a rebuild it's going to be, at minimum, 3-5 years before the talent from your rebuild makes it through the minors and is on your major league roster. Why would you keep Haniger for his 28-32 year old seasons on teams you already plan to have no chance at winning just because you have him under club control or cheap? You're completely wasting that and getting nothing out of it when you're in a rebuild and know ahead of time you aren't fielding teams that have any kind of shot to win. Plus Haniger is only under club control for one more season then he's in arbitration and you have to start paying him a lot more. Granted not as much as if he were a free agent but again, what's the point if you aren't planning to win until 2023 when Mitch will no longer be in arbitration and a free agent?

    If you're selling, you sell it all and completely rebuild. If you're going for it then you have to commit to spending like the Redsox and put 250M into the team and not 160M. There is nothing in the middle of those two options that makes any sense no matter how attached any of us are to certain players.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:47 pm
  • Not a fan of this deal.....

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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:31 pm
  • 2_0_6 wrote:Not a fan of this deal.....

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    I kind of like it. Actually I really like it.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:44 pm
  • I like it too. You had to get rid of Zunino and Heredia. Zunino especially. He never figured it out with us. No point in holding onto him. He would have been toast long time ago if he was with BOS or NY.

    Mallex Smith led the AL in triples, nice. Is a Dee Gordon trade about to happen? No way Dee gets the nod over Cano at 2nd.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:08 pm
  • Heredia and Gamel were one in the same.. I don't think there was any room for both of them..
    Heard Shannon quip on the radio,t hat this move suggested a 2 year rebuild,otherwise he would have been dealt for several prospects... I just don't want a half ass rebuild where we have to rebuild again.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:49 pm
  • I'm actually shocked there's a taker for Zunino. Addition by subtraction. Good 1st step.

    Smith is only 25, under club control through '23. He hit .296 with 40 steals this year, so in Seattle assume his avg will drop 25 points and his steals decline 25%. So he'll likely be a steady .271 30 SB guy for us.

    Somewhat sorry to see Heredia go. Outstanding defense, could play small ball and do the little things but just never developed into an adequate hitter. Bring on the rebuild and keep the moves coming.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:27 am
  • While Zunino was a disaster standing next to the plate, he was a tremendous asset while behind it.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:22 am
  • The frustrating thing is we already acquired Mallex Smith once and gave him away for Drew Smyly. It is such a Mariners move to trade for a player they used to already have.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:34 am
  • Holy crap we got rid of useless nice boy zunino and actually got a good player in return. Color me pleasantly SHOCKED!!
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:42 am
  • HawkFan72 wrote:The frustrating thing is we already acquired Mallex Smith once and gave him away for Drew Smyly. It is such a Mariners move to trade for a player they used to already have.

    True. It's actually a little irritating. I still like the move, though.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:36 pm
  • I for one am not happy to see Mikeyz go, for years we've been searching, spending high draft picks for a serviceable catcher and we got one.. Sure he's up and down at the plat but what he does with the pitchers and behind the plate was outstanding. IT's a lot easier to find good outfielders than to find a decent catcher. I figure he'll turn his hitting around and be a solid hitter at some point.. I just don't like the move.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:01 pm
  • DJrmb wrote:I get people wanting to keep Haniger or Diaz because they are really good (Generational talents is a bit of a stretch though I think). However, that's the exact thinking that has kept us in this mediocrity for all these years. Haniger will be 28 this season and if we're talking about a rebuild it's going to be, at minimum, 3-5 years before the talent from your rebuild makes it through the minors and is on your major league roster. Why would you keep Haniger for his 28-32 year old seasons on teams you already plan to have no chance at winning just because you have him under club control or cheap? You're completely wasting that and getting nothing out of it when you're in a rebuild and know ahead of time you aren't fielding teams that have any kind of shot to win. Plus Haniger is only under club control for one more season then he's in arbitration and you have to start paying him a lot more. Granted not as much as if he were a free agent but again, what's the point if you aren't planning to win until 2023 when Mitch will no longer be in arbitration and a free agent?

    If you're selling, you sell it all and completely rebuild. If you're going for it then you have to commit to spending like the Redsox and put 250M into the team and not 160M. There is nothing in the middle of those two options that makes any sense no matter how attached any of us are to certain players.


    Yep, so unless you think Diaz is the next Rivera that'll be lights out for a decade, why hold onto your biggest asset who could bring back the most prospects during a 4-5 year rebuild?

    I absolutely HATE this constant living in the middle the M's continue to do year after year. Either tear it ALL down, or spend 75M more. But don't live in the middle where you're trying to do both.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:10 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    DJrmb wrote:I get people wanting to keep Haniger or Diaz because they are really good (Generational talents is a bit of a stretch though I think). However, that's the exact thinking that has kept us in this mediocrity for all these years. Haniger will be 28 this season and if we're talking about a rebuild it's going to be, at minimum, 3-5 years before the talent from your rebuild makes it through the minors and is on your major league roster. Why would you keep Haniger for his 28-32 year old seasons on teams you already plan to have no chance at winning just because you have him under club control or cheap? You're completely wasting that and getting nothing out of it when you're in a rebuild and know ahead of time you aren't fielding teams that have any kind of shot to win. Plus Haniger is only under club control for one more season then he's in arbitration and you have to start paying him a lot more. Granted not as much as if he were a free agent but again, what's the point if you aren't planning to win until 2023 when Mitch will no longer be in arbitration and a free agent?

    If you're selling, you sell it all and completely rebuild. If you're going for it then you have to commit to spending like the Redsox and put 250M into the team and not 160M. There is nothing in the middle of those two options that makes any sense no matter how attached any of us are to certain players.


    Yep, so unless you think Diaz is the next Rivera that'll be lights out for a decade, why hold onto your biggest asset who could bring back the most prospects during a 4-5 year rebuild?

    I absolutely HATE this constant living in the middle the M's continue to do year after year. Either tear it ALL down, or spend 75M more. But don't live in the middle where you're trying to do both.

    I gotta agree..It's time for a total rebuild even if we have to trade Smith AGAIN..
    Restock the Farm with a lot of talent,draft wisely and then when the time is right
    you buy a few key FA's to go all the way.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:11 pm
  • Bobblehead wrote:I for one am not happy to see Mikeyz go, for years we've been searching, spending high draft picks for a serviceable catcher and we got one.. Sure he's up and down at the plat but what he does with the pitchers and behind the plate was outstanding. IT's a lot easier to find good outfielders than to find a decent catcher. I figure he'll turn his hitting around and be a solid hitter at some point.. I just don't like the move.

    I'm with you on this one. I don't really like the move. Z was a black hole at the plate, I get that. However, he was one of the best defensive catchers in baseball. Catcher isn't a hitting position anyways. I'm not completely against moving him at all, but I feel like this trade was a bad move. You're buying high on a guy that you kind of already have in Ben Gamel. They better hope that 296/367/404 slash line with 40 steals was real and not just one year. Otherwise you just traded 3 players for Ben Gamel 2.0...
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:34 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    DJrmb wrote:I get people wanting to keep Haniger or Diaz because they are really good (Generational talents is a bit of a stretch though I think). However, that's the exact thinking that has kept us in this mediocrity for all these years. Haniger will be 28 this season and if we're talking about a rebuild it's going to be, at minimum, 3-5 years before the talent from your rebuild makes it through the minors and is on your major league roster. Why would you keep Haniger for his 28-32 year old seasons on teams you already plan to have no chance at winning just because you have him under club control or cheap? You're completely wasting that and getting nothing out of it when you're in a rebuild and know ahead of time you aren't fielding teams that have any kind of shot to win. Plus Haniger is only under club control for one more season then he's in arbitration and you have to start paying him a lot more. Granted not as much as if he were a free agent but again, what's the point if you aren't planning to win until 2023 when Mitch will no longer be in arbitration and a free agent?

    If you're selling, you sell it all and completely rebuild. If you're going for it then you have to commit to spending like the Redsox and put 250M into the team and not 160M. There is nothing in the middle of those two options that makes any sense no matter how attached any of us are to certain players.


    Yep, so unless you think Diaz is the next Rivera that'll be lights out for a decade, why hold onto your biggest asset who could bring back the most prospects during a 4-5 year rebuild?


    24 years old, 99-101 mph, 57 saves, 1.97 era, MLB Reliever of the Year, 109 saves total already, 2.64 career era, 301k in 191 inn, effortless arm action and excellent mechanics not likely placing high stress on his arm. Everything does point to him being Rivera like for the next decade. You rebuild but you keep a rare, young, dominant arm like that.

    I fully understand the notion though-trade your most valuable asset for as many top 20, top 50, top 100 prospects that you can. And one could argue by trading him we could perhaps get a decent starter and there could be other high 90s guys along the way of a rebuild that could probably close decently. But in the current game where dominant relievers are taking over, he’s a guy you keep. If we rebuild effectively and we’re actually contending in a few years, Diaz is still in his prime. And the best closers don’t come everyday-think how many up and down closers we had for 15 years since Sasaki.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:49 pm
  • DJrmb wrote:
    Bobblehead wrote:I for one am not happy to see Mikeyz go, for years we've been searching, spending high draft picks for a serviceable catcher and we got one.. Sure he's up and down at the plat but what he does with the pitchers and behind the plate was outstanding. IT's a lot easier to find good outfielders than to find a decent catcher. I figure he'll turn his hitting around and be a solid hitter at some point.. I just don't like the move.

    I'm with you on this one. I don't really like the move. Z was a black hole at the plate, I get that. However, he was one of the best defensive catchers in baseball. Catcher isn't a hitting position anyways. I'm not completely against moving him at all, but I feel like this trade was a bad move. You're buying high on a guy that you kind of already have in Ben Gamel. They better hope that 296/367/404 slash line with 40 steals was real and not just one year. Otherwise you just traded 3 players for Ben Gamel 2.0...


    People want a rebuild but they’re sorry to see Zuninothing gone? At Safeco in particular, you need as stacked a lineup as possible and we can do a hell of a lot better than .201/.259 last year. Career: .207/.276. Yes, he has a gun but teams hardly run anymore anyway so that’s less important. He handled pitchers well, but so does every 32 year old and up veteran catcher in the league.

    Mallex Smith at least gets on base and any major league catcher we insert in the lineup will hit at least somewhat better than Zunino.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:58 am
  • West TX Hawk wrote:
    24 years old, 99-101 mph, 57 saves, 1.97 era, MLB Reliever of the Year, 109 saves total already, 2.64 career era, 301k in 191 inn, effortless arm action and excellent mechanics not likely placing high stress on his arm. Everything does point to him being Rivera like for the next decade. You rebuild but you keep a rare, young, dominant arm like that.

    I fully understand the notion though-trade your most valuable asset for as many top 20, top 50, top 100 prospects that you can. And one could argue by trading him we could perhaps get a decent starter and there could be other high 90s guys along the way of a rebuild that could probably close decently. But in the current game where dominant relievers are taking over, he’s a guy you keep. If we rebuild effectively and we’re actually contending in a few years, Diaz is still in his prime. And the best closers don’t come everyday-think how many up and down closers we had for 15 years since Sasaki.


    I disagree. Closers are THE most volatile pitchers on every team's staff, and if you're relying on Diaz having the same sort of year he had this year 3-4 years from now or longer without diminished returns or serious injuries, then you're just flat out gambling.

    Who cares about saves during a complete rebuild? Seriously, it doesn't matter, you're not competing for ANYTHING. So why in hell would you not trade your biggest asset for the most prospects possible at the height of Diaz's value and upside.

    Again, Dipoto wants to live in the middle, and it's going to lead to another decade of .500 worthless seasons...........at best.

    If your goal is to truly compete for WS's, then what the hell are we doing? Making minor trades for our underperforming or overpriced players is not going to bring back the necessary #1 or #2 organizational prospects to achieve this goal. It's just not.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:27 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    West TX Hawk wrote:
    24 years old, 99-101 mph, 57 saves, 1.97 era, MLB Reliever of the Year, 109 saves total already, 2.64 career era, 301k in 191 inn, effortless arm action and excellent mechanics not likely placing high stress on his arm. Everything does point to him being Rivera like for the next decade. You rebuild but you keep a rare, young, dominant arm like that.

    I fully understand the notion though-trade your most valuable asset for as many top 20, top 50, top 100 prospects that you can. And one could argue by trading him we could perhaps get a decent starter and there could be other high 90s guys along the way of a rebuild that could probably close decently. But in the current game where dominant relievers are taking over, he’s a guy you keep. If we rebuild effectively and we’re actually contending in a few years, Diaz is still in his prime. And the best closers don’t come everyday-think how many up and down closers we had for 15 years since Sasaki.


    I disagree. Closers are THE most volatile pitchers on every team's staff, and if you're relying on Diaz having the same sort of year he had this year 3-4 years from now or longer without diminished returns or serious injuries, then you're just flat out gambling.

    Who cares about saves during a complete rebuild? Seriously, it doesn't matter, you're not competing for ANYTHING. So why in hell would you not trade your biggest asset for the most prospects possible at the height of Diaz's value and upside.

    Again, Dipoto wants to live in the middle, and it's going to lead to another decade of .500 worthless seasons...........at best.

    If your goal is to truly compete for WS's, then what the hell are we doing? Making minor trades for our underperforming or overpriced players is not going to bring back the necessary #1 or #2 organizational prospects to achieve this goal. It's just not.


    Great post... and completely agree. People argue that Dipoto more often than not buys high and sells low? Well.. here is his chance to reverse that. Sell Diaz, he's a great reliever but as has been alluded to, a great closer is like the cherry top. First build a young competing team, then worry about which reliever will be your closer.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:02 am
  • West TX Hawk wrote:
    DJrmb wrote:
    Bobblehead wrote:I for one am not happy to see Mikeyz go, for years we've been searching, spending high draft picks for a serviceable catcher and we got one.. Sure he's up and down at the plat but what he does with the pitchers and behind the plate was outstanding. IT's a lot easier to find good outfielders than to find a decent catcher. I figure he'll turn his hitting around and be a solid hitter at some point.. I just don't like the move.

    I'm with you on this one. I don't really like the move. Z was a black hole at the plate, I get that. However, he was one of the best defensive catchers in baseball. Catcher isn't a hitting position anyways. I'm not completely against moving him at all, but I feel like this trade was a bad move. You're buying high on a guy that you kind of already have in Ben Gamel. They better hope that 296/367/404 slash line with 40 steals was real and not just one year. Otherwise you just traded 3 players for Ben Gamel 2.0...


    People want a rebuild but they’re sorry to see Zuninothing gone? At Safeco in particular, you need as stacked a lineup as possible and we can do a hell of a lot better than .201/.259 last year. Career: .207/.276. Yes, he has a gun but teams hardly run anymore anyway so that’s less important. He handled pitchers well, but so does every 32 year old and up veteran catcher in the league.

    Mallex Smith at least gets on base and any major league catcher we insert in the lineup will hit at least somewhat better than Zunino.

    No, I was not saying don't trade of Zunino. My point is that they gave up too much, and traded for a small outfielder who hits for average but with no power. Something they already have in guys like Gamel or Gordon. I also don't like the trade because they traded for a major league player instead of prospects which points to them wanting to try to just shuffling things around again instead of going into a full rebuild.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:15 am
  • therealjohncarlson wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    West TX Hawk wrote:
    24 years old, 99-101 mph, 57 saves, 1.97 era, MLB Reliever of the Year, 109 saves total already, 2.64 career era, 301k in 191 inn, effortless arm action and excellent mechanics not likely placing high stress on his arm. Everything does point to him being Rivera like for the next decade. You rebuild but you keep a rare, young, dominant arm like that.

    I fully understand the notion though-trade your most valuable asset for as many top 20, top 50, top 100 prospects that you can. And one could argue by trading him we could perhaps get a decent starter and there could be other high 90s guys along the way of a rebuild that could probably close decently. But in the current game where dominant relievers are taking over, he’s a guy you keep. If we rebuild effectively and we’re actually contending in a few years, Diaz is still in his prime. And the best closers don’t come everyday-think how many up and down closers we had for 15 years since Sasaki.


    I disagree. Closers are THE most volatile pitchers on every team's staff, and if you're relying on Diaz having the same sort of year he had this year 3-4 years from now or longer without diminished returns or serious injuries, then you're just flat out gambling.

    Who cares about saves during a complete rebuild? Seriously, it doesn't matter, you're not competing for ANYTHING. So why in hell would you not trade your biggest asset for the most prospects possible at the height of Diaz's value and upside.

    Again, Dipoto wants to live in the middle, and it's going to lead to another decade of .500 worthless seasons...........at best.

    If your goal is to truly compete for WS's, then what the hell are we doing? Making minor trades for our underperforming or overpriced players is not going to bring back the necessary #1 or #2 organizational prospects to achieve this goal. It's just not.


    Great post... and completely agree. People argue that Dipoto more often than not buys high and sells low? Well.. here is his chance to reverse that. Sell Diaz, he's a great reliever but as has been alluded to, a great closer is like the cherry top. First build a young competing team, then worry about which reliever will be your closer.

    Completely agree with both of you. I'll add that if they're rebuilding, which I kind of doubt now after the Z trade, by the time your ready to compete it's time to pay Diaz anyway. So in a sense you could have traded Diaz for a kings ransom and then used the same 20m+ you'd have to give him to just buy whoever the best closer is at the time when you're ready to compete. You also don't have to assume the risk of him getting injured or regressing. It just makes sense in a rebuild. The only reason to have young controllable players is to compete for a WS. If you already know you won't be doing that for multiple years you're simply wasting him and then he'll probably leave anyway and you got no value.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:32 am
  • I'm all for a rebuild. Got zero problem if they trade anyone on this team. You have to give up to get. It sounds like we aren't trading Haniger, Marco and Diaz. The only guy that I think can get a lot on the market is Paxton, Segura and Colome.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:09 am
  • Zunino was top 5 defensive catcher and saved runs by arm and framing and pitch selection. However most fans dont look into that and look for the fun stats. You know BA and Homers.

    Dont be shocked if mike hits 30+ in TB with .220 avg and again is top 5 defensive catcher.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:07 pm
  • I don't want to see us do a 2 year rebuild.. it's what we've done and it's not going to be any better than where we are now. I really believe, we have some good leverage players who we can get some value for.. Tear the team down, start it right with great prospects that are 4 to 5 years away from being stars. I think there are several teams in the league that went this approach and they are now winning World series or are contending too.. It's the only model to follow I think.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:16 pm
  • Bobblehead wrote:I don't want to see us do a 2 year rebuild.. it's what we've done and it's not going to be any better than where we are now. I really believe, we have some good leverage players who we can get some value for.. Tear the team down, start it right with great prospects that are 4 to 5 years away from being stars. I think there are several teams in the league that went this approach and they are now winning World series or are contending too.. It's the only model to follow I think.


    Dipoto's doing it because it's self serving. He doesn't want to do a complete tear down, because then that's out past his contract extension.

    Yes, the only way to do it right is a complete tear down like the Red Sox, Astros, Cubs and White Sox are now doing.

    Again, can't live in the middle. If you don't have the prospects ready to pop in the next two years (which we don't, thanks Jack Z).............then you either spend ungodly amounts more to get frontline players in free agency, or you do a complete tear down and start from scratch and hope your GM knew what he was doing.

    But a two year rebuild? Huh Wat? We've got holes all over the roster and staff, what is trading away our middling players and bringing back more middling players and lowly rated prospects accomplishing?

    Absolutely no one should be untouchable on a rebuild in baseball.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:40 pm
  • I pretty much agree with most of you.

    It seems like the only way to execute this 2-year rebuild while still remaining competitive would be to trade Paxton and some of your higher value guys for prospects while also signing free agents to offset your losses. This probably won't happen because Seattle already has a high payroll and there is a significant risk in adding big money free agents that could have long-term ramifications.

    I hope the front office commits one way or the other. If they are gonna blow it up blow it up. If they are gonna try to retool be ready to spend some money in the process as well to replace the guys you move... no more of this halfway in bullcrap.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:17 am
  • knownone wrote:I pretty much agree with most of you.

    It seems like the only way to execute this 2-year rebuild while still remaining competitive would be to trade Paxton and some of your higher value guys for prospects while also signing free agents to offset your losses. This probably won't happen because Seattle already has a high payroll and there is a significant risk in adding big money free agents that could have long-term ramifications.

    I hope the front office commits one way or the other. If they are gonna blow it up blow it up. If they are gonna try to retool be ready to spend some money in the process as well to replace the guys you move... no more of this halfway in bullcrap.



    Well that's the problem, see if you trade stars for prospects, the issue is the prospects arn't ready for Major league for about 5 years...not 2 years. If you do keep certain stars. such as we did with Felix.. the Team waits to develop while your star, or stars are stuck in a rebuild, going nowhere. It's simple..
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:58 pm
  • Bobblehead wrote:
    knownone wrote:I pretty much agree with most of you.

    It seems like the only way to execute this 2-year rebuild while still remaining competitive would be to trade Paxton and some of your higher value guys for prospects while also signing free agents to offset your losses. This probably won't happen because Seattle already has a high payroll and there is a significant risk in adding big money free agents that could have long-term ramifications.

    I hope the front office commits one way or the other. If they are gonna blow it up blow it up. If they are gonna try to retool be ready to spend some money in the process as well to replace the guys you move... no more of this halfway in bullcrap.



    Well that's the problem, see if you trade stars for prospects, the issue is the prospects arn't ready for Major league for about 5 years...not 2 years. If you do keep certain stars. such as we did with Felix.. the Team waits to develop while your star, or stars are stuck in a rebuild, going nowhere. It's simple..

    The problem is like Sgt and other have said is they will half ass this “rebuild”.
    I’d go the full rebuild route with an exception of trading Haniger and Segura.

    Everyone else is gone even if that means cutting guys like Felix and Seager if you cannot find anyone to take them via trade.
    Problem with that though, is the Mariners won’t eat those large and horrible contracts even though they need to.
    It’s a sunk cost.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:46 pm
  • Sports Hernia wrote:
    Bobblehead wrote:
    knownone wrote:I pretty much agree with most of you.

    It seems like the only way to execute this 2-year rebuild while still remaining competitive would be to trade Paxton and some of your higher value guys for prospects while also signing free agents to offset your losses. This probably won't happen because Seattle already has a high payroll and there is a significant risk in adding big money free agents that could have long-term ramifications.

    I hope the front office commits one way or the other. If they are gonna blow it up blow it up. If they are gonna try to retool be ready to spend some money in the process as well to replace the guys you move... no more of this halfway in bullcrap.



    Well that's the problem, see if you trade stars for prospects, the issue is the prospects arn't ready for Major league for about 5 years...not 2 years. If you do keep certain stars. such as we did with Felix.. the Team waits to develop while your star, or stars are stuck in a rebuild, going nowhere. It's simple..

    The problem is like Sgt and other have said is they will half ass this “rebuild”.
    I’d go the full rebuild route with an exception of trading Haniger and Segura.

    Everyone else is gone even if that means cutting guys like Felix and Seager if you cannot find anyone to take them via trade.
    Problem with that though, is the Mariners won’t eat those large and horrible contracts even though they need to.
    It’s a sunk cost.



    You can't go full blown rebuild without trading Segura and Hanniger, they are key pieces in getting talent.. Also, it takes 5 years to basically rebuild, during that time, the M's will be awful, and in 5 years Haniger and Segura will either be too costly or untradeable cause of contracts or past their prime.. See what happened with Felix.. kept him around to no avail.. shoujld have traded him when we could have gotten half the RedSox farm system.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:00 pm
  • Bobblehead wrote:
    knownone wrote:I pretty much agree with most of you.

    It seems like the only way to execute this 2-year rebuild while still remaining competitive would be to trade Paxton and some of your higher value guys for prospects while also signing free agents to offset your losses. This probably won't happen because Seattle already has a high payroll and there is a significant risk in adding big money free agents that could have long-term ramifications.

    I hope the front office commits one way or the other. If they are gonna blow it up blow it up. If they are gonna try to retool be ready to spend some money in the process as well to replace the guys you move... no more of this halfway in bullcrap.



    Well that's the problem, see if you trade stars for prospects, the issue is the prospects arn't ready for Major league for about 5 years...not 2 years. If you do keep certain stars. such as we did with Felix.. the Team waits to develop while your star, or stars are stuck in a rebuild, going nowhere. It's simple..

    Agreed. But if the goal is to rebuild the farm system while remaining competitive that is how you'd do it. I'm not saying it's a good strategy by any means, I just don't know how else Dipoto could pull off his 2-year rebuild without the Mariners ending up where they are right now, or worse...
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:22 pm
  • >She also noted that Servais told her the reason she could not sit in on a staff meeting with players to discuss families was "honestly, it's because you're a woman."

    THE ABSOLUTE MADMAN
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:06 am
  • Bobblehead wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:
    Bobblehead wrote:
    knownone wrote:I pretty much agree with most of you.

    It seems like the only way to execute this 2-year rebuild while still remaining competitive would be to trade Paxton and some of your higher value guys for prospects while also signing free agents to offset your losses. This probably won't happen because Seattle already has a high payroll and there is a significant risk in adding big money free agents that could have long-term ramifications.

    I hope the front office commits one way or the other. If they are gonna blow it up blow it up. If they are gonna try to retool be ready to spend some money in the process as well to replace the guys you move... no more of this halfway in bullcrap.



    Well that's the problem, see if you trade stars for prospects, the issue is the prospects arn't ready for Major league for about 5 years...not 2 years. If you do keep certain stars. such as we did with Felix.. the Team waits to develop while your star, or stars are stuck in a rebuild, going nowhere. It's simple..

    The problem is like Sgt and other have said is they will half ass this “rebuild”.
    I’d go the full rebuild route with an exception of trading Haniger and Segura.

    Everyone else is gone even if that means cutting guys like Felix and Seager if you cannot find anyone to take them via trade.
    Problem with that though, is the Mariners won’t eat those large and horrible contracts even though they need to.
    It’s a sunk cost.



    You can't go full blown rebuild without trading Segura and Hanniger, they are key pieces in getting talent.. Also, it takes 5 years to basically rebuild, during that time, the M's will be awful, and in 5 years Haniger and Segura will either be too costly or untradeable cause of contracts or past their prime.. See what happened with Felix.. kept him around to no avail.. shoujld have traded him when we could have gotten half the RedSox farm system.


    Disagree with the too old part of not trading Haniger and Segura right away.
    You trade them after they pad their resume after a couple of years, not year 5.
    You sell high not low.

    As for Paxton, you wouldn’t have gotten half of Boston’s farm system for him, that’s a pipe dream.
    His trade value NOW is its highest, and most of experts say you might get a team’s top prospect and a throw an OK prospect with possibly a JAG (Just Another Guy) thrown in.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:52 am
  • Crizilla wrote:>She also noted that Servais told her the reason she could not sit in on a staff meeting with players to discuss families was "honestly, it's because you're a woman."

    THE ABSOLUTE MADMAN


    Sounds more like sour grapes.. we'll see.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:47 pm
  • 2_0_6 wrote:While Zunino was a disaster standing next to the plate, he was a tremendous asset while behind it.

    For teams that always failed to make the playoffs.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:43 pm
  • Sounds like the Ms are going into full rebuild mode. They've traded James Paxton to the Yankees.

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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:45 pm
  • Oh, good. Trade our best pitcher to one of the best teams in the league. :34853_doh:
    Talent can get you to the playoffs.
    It takes character to win when you get there.

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