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Zags 2016/2017 Thread

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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:06 pm
  • Fix is in. Zags will have to fight that off too.

    This is disgusting to watch. SB XL all over again. That's 3 horrendous calls that are so bad there's only one way they are being called. The fix. You don't make it this far in your career as a referee while thinking those are fouls.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:18 pm
  • I am a lot more pissed about Karnowski missing 4 point blank shots. Refs suck but they always suck. If Karnowski makes his shots we are up 11.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:27 pm
  • Refs haven't been the problem -- Agreed about Karnowski. This is just 2 great games battling. C'MON Zags finish this thing!!!
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:31 pm
  • You guys are probably watching the CBS broadcast where they dont call out bad calls or give you good replays

    Simply put, youre wrong. Thanks for trying tho. There's refball to the max.

    Now its looking like they're desperately trying to even out the game now with more calls. Worst ref'ed title game I've ever seen in the NCAA.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:14 pm
  • Is Karnowski supposed to be good?

    This game is horrible.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:16 pm
  • Crizilla wrote:You guys are probably watching the CBS broadcast where they dont call out bad calls or give you good replays

    Simply put, youre wrong. Thanks for trying tho. There's refball to the max.

    Now its looking like they're desperately trying to even out the game now with more calls. Worst ref'ed title game I've ever seen in the NCAA.


    First half was fine, this half is a travesty ref wise.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:23 pm
  • bevellisthedevil wrote:
    Crizilla wrote:You guys are probably watching the CBS broadcast where they dont call out bad calls or give you good replays

    Simply put, youre wrong. Thanks for trying tho. There's refball to the max.

    Now its looking like they're desperately trying to even out the game now with more calls. Worst ref'ed title game I've ever seen in the NCAA.


    First half was fine, this half is a travesty ref wise.


    You. Are. Wrong. The entire game has been a travesty.

    Poor Collins. This is a disgrace.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:34 pm
  • Stop fouling and the refs will stop calling fouls. Both teams are hack city. These are all legit fouls.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:36 pm
  • Refs have absolutely destroyed this game in the second half. First half they let 'em play and now it's call every ticky-tack little thing.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:41 pm
  • Good season for zags.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:41 pm
  • Wow, what an awful game. Neither team could shoot and there was a whistle like every 20 seconds.

    I don't see Gonzaga play often, has Karnowski always been this bad? He couldn't hit anything.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:41 pm
  • Ugliest final I have witnessed in a while....
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:42 pm
  • Rat wrote:Wow, what an awful game. Neither team could shoot and there was a whistle like every 20 seconds.

    I don't see Gonzaga play often, has Karnowski always been this bad? He couldn't hit anything.


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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:43 pm
  • Biggest fraud title game I've ever seen. Could actually be worse than SB XL. I could even tell UNC was a little let down from the game. Sure, Zags could have shot better. Ok. So what? I think UNC actually shot worse. The entire game was a let down from the get-go. I'm not even really mad. After the first half I knew the fix was in.

    Add this to the list of what PNW fans will talk about for YEARS to come. Congrats, Zags, though. You guys earned EVERYTHING this year and DESERVED to the National Champions.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:45 pm
  • I'm a UW fan. Don't like Gonzaga but I thought they got screwed. Refs sucked. I feel bad for Collins. Refs were horrible.


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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:46 pm
  • Crizilla wrote:Biggest fraud title game I've ever seen. Could actually be worse than SB XL. I could even tell UNC was a little let down from the game. Sure, Zags could have shot better. Ok. So what? I think UNC actually shot worse. The entire game was a let down from the get-go. I'm not even really mad. After the first half I knew the fix was in.

    Add this to the list of what PNW fans will talk about for YEARS to come. Congrats, Zags, though. You guys earned EVERYTHING this year and DESERVED to the National Champions.



    I didn't watch the 1st half, but the 2nd half they were calling fouls because both teams were fouling at an alarming rate.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:50 pm
  • I just think that the refs screwed up any type of rhythm to have any type of basketball game. I am a huge Gonzaga fan and if you told me that Karnowski was going to look like Bozo the Clown the entire night I would have called you crazy.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:52 pm
  • We played well the first half had the lead then the refs decided to foul out our front court and call millions of fouls and ruin the game. Awful reffing two good teams and terrible refs.

    Also Meeks had a hand out of bounds when they gave UNC the ball. They could have checked on the monitor but did not. The Flagrant on Karno was also pathetic.


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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:00 pm
  • JSeahawks wrote:These are all legit fouls.


    Go to the eye doctor. I'm serious. Or get prescribed some ADD meds or something. You're living a lie.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:06 pm
  • The fouls they called on Collins were very ticky tack and he was the guy who was able to score underneath. I'm just irritated they took over the game. Karno struggled mightily all night long which was unfortunate.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:09 pm
  • Just wait until all the screenshots and articles come out about this game. This was the Devil's work.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:24 pm
  • Man, what a heartbreaking loss -- to come so close to winning it all and fall just short. Still, the Zags have nothing to hang their head about. They had one heck of a run this year and showed the entire nation that they most certainly deserve to be mentioned right up there with all the elite programs in college basketball.

    That said, I DO have to agree that with those who are complaining about the referees in this game. I'm not usually one to complain about the refs ... but in this case, I believe this was a clear case of how the refs really impacted this game. That was SUCH an entertaining and hard fought battle by both teams in the 1st Half ... but in the 2nd Half, IMO the refs really got in the way of what had been a very entertaining game -- and by that I mean of BOTH TEAMS.

    The rhythm of both teams clearly got affected by how tight and ticky-tack the refs were calling the game in the 2nd Half. IMO in so doing, they kind of robbed the nation of what had been a very good game up until that point. Now, I'm not going to make excuses and say THAT's the reason Gonzaga lost this game tonight. I AM going to say though that it clearly threw them off and took them out of their rhythm -- Collins fouling out was simply a blow that they couldn't overcome.

    That's sports though -- you have to overcome adversity and be able to adapt to things like that. And in this case, North Carolina did ... and Gonzaga didn't. Bottom line.

    Still as I said, the Zags have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. Congratulations again on a fantastic season and good luck again next year. I fully believe that this team will be right there contending for the title again in 2018.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:29 pm
  • I agree with you. You have to overcome and we didn't. I just feel robbed of a good game and I have no idea who the better team is to be honest (there were bad calls both ways I do not dispute that at all). Our entire front court was in foul trouble on extremely ticky tack calls. It effected the game in a big way.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:49 pm
  • Yet another crushing and devastating defeat for a northwest team in a championship. My heart goes out to all the Zag players-you could just see the emotion and tears from them right after the game. They fought hard and battled to the end. Williams-Goss was a warrior out there.

    On a down note, Karnowski was absolutely horrible all night. He looked lethargic, slow and rather lazy and cost the team dearly. 1 for 8 and 4 turnovers. Pathetic showing.

    Fantastic season though Gonzaga. A run to remember. Come back hard next year.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:43 pm
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:47 pm
  • Natethegreat wrote:We played well the first half had the lead then the refs decided to foul out our front court and call millions of fouls and ruin the game. Awful reffing two good teams and terrible refs.

    Also Meeks had a hand out of bounds when they gave UNC the ball. They could have checked on the monitor but did not. The Flagrant on Karno was also pathetic.


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    And the ref is RIGHT THERE.

    This crew made NFL zebras look competent. There were more fouls that minutes played and almost more than there were FGs made. What a crapshow. The first half was so much better and had some rhythm to it...we're supposed to believe that both teams just said 'F-it' and decided to start hacking each other every 10 seconds in the second half? :roll:
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:57 am
  • 253hawk wrote:Refs have absolutely destroyed this game in the second half. First half they let 'em play and now it's call every ticky-tack little thing.


    Agreed. The announcers even said that the first 16 were ticky tack and within the first 6 mins of the second half they are in the bonus. The REFS Destroyed any opportunity for a chance to get a rhythm going. Basketball is a game of rhythm for a lot of the game. Yea...K did miss a few easy shots in the first half and first half of the second half, but he was doing ok on the line....speaking of line: Since they were both in the bonus, all ticky tack calls rewarded a shot at the foul line. If they had a chance to gain a balance and rhythm, then Zags could have gone on a run...but step in Refs and destroy it. Here is your cake 2 pts but you will not beat the NC Tarheels on my watch. I saw XL happening and at 8 mins left to go in the game, I went to bed and read a book. Saw this game before.....did not like it then, dont like it now. And people want paid refs in the nFL...heh. At least the book I am reading is decent enough so far.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:10 am
  • dopeboy206 wrote:I'm a UW fan. Don't like Gonzaga but I thought they got screwed. Refs sucked. I feel bad for Collins. Refs were horrible.


    Why does being a UW fan mean you don't like Gonzaga? They play in totally different leagues and don't really overlap recruiting very much. In fact, when they have gone after the same guy UW normally gets him.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:38 am
  • Crizilla wrote:
    JSeahawks wrote:These are all legit fouls.


    Go to the eye doctor. I'm serious. Or get prescribed some ADD meds or something. You're living a lie.

    I was rooting for the zags but come on, the zags traveled at least 5-6 times that didn't get called and Karnowski lowers his shoulder and runs people over all night like Shaq used to. Was there ticky tack calls? For sure, but it went both ways. This was no where near as bad as XL, not even close. It was just badly refers both ways.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:57 am
  • Hawkstorian wrote:
    dopeboy206 wrote:I'm a UW fan. Don't like Gonzaga but I thought they got screwed. Refs sucked. I feel bad for Collins. Refs were horrible.


    Why does being a UW fan mean you don't like Gonzaga? They play in totally different leagues and don't really overlap recruiting very much. In fact, when they have gone after the same guy UW normally gets him.


    From listening to Softy a bit, I'd say it's just envy. I enjoy rooting for Gonzaga, the same as I enjoy rooting for Eastern Washington at football.

    Personally, the rules of basketball irritate me a lot, making it difficult to prioritize watching it over other sports. If I had my way, there would be a lot more offensive fouls, and fewer defensive fouls. I suppose that would ruin the game for many people, but it would make more sense to me.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:05 am
  • Well that was the worst game of basketball I've watched in a really really long time.

    NC couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat. and the zags didn't shoot well either. Side effect of playing in a dang football stadium.

    The refs called way too many ticky tack fouls. It's like they called a couple early in the second half and then just couldn't get out of their own way.

    Absolutely brutal tv watching.

    I didn't want the zags to win, as a WSU fan. But I was hoping to see a good basketball game. yuk
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:16 am
  • 27 fouls in the second half, 21 of which came in the first 12 minutes. That's a foul every 34 seconds. That is abhorrent. You almost couldn't draw that many if you were deliberately trying to foul the whole time.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:47 am
  • I agree with most that it was a poorly officiated game, but the whole "the fix was in" narrative is pretty ridiculous.

    Each team was called for 22 personal fouls and each team shot 26 free throws. It doesn't get any more even than, well, dead even. Yes, I get that there are many other things the refs decide and calls they have to make, but it seemed to me that there were some pretty bad calls on each team. That's just part of pretty much any basketball game ever though.

    IMO, what decided this game was not the refs. The Zags had 10 more turnovers than NC. 10. That's a really big difference, especially when your playing a very good team.

    And man I hate to throw one guy under the bus, especially in a team game like basketball, but Karnowski really hurt his team last night. He was 1 for 8 and almost all of those were from very, very close range. Just a brutal performance at the absolute worst possible time.

    If the Zags had taken care of the ball just a little bit better and if Karnowski had put away just one or two more of those point blank chances this game could have turned out different. This Gonzaga team is a very good team and IMO plenty capable of beating NC. Unfortunately, they didn't play well enough to beat them last night.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:33 am
  • Chapow wrote:I agree with most that it was a poorly officiated game, but the whole "the fix was in" narrative is pretty ridiculous..


    The only fix I thought of was CBS telling the refs to slow the game down to wring another 30-40 minutes of commercials out of the broadcast.

    But yes overall this was one of the sloppiest, ugliest, poorly played and officiated finals I can remember.

    If Gonzaga just makes even half of the free throws they missed, they win this game going away.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:45 am
  • Yeah that was a really ugly game. Like another poster mentioned, it's hard to know who the better team was after that game. Both teams played poorly, game was officiated bad, and there was no rhythm to the game. I'm not buying this, "the fix was in." If you seriously think a game this big was fixed, then you are off your rocker. There is a big difference between a "fix" and "bad calls." I thought the refs missed a ton of calls going both ways. Sometimes they got two calls wrong on one play (i.e. Berry getting called for a foul and then Karnowski getting called for the flagrant, neither were a foul).

    With that said, I've been saying this for a long time, but college basketball needs to change their rules. For one, go to six player fouls like the NBA. As of now, if you get two fouls in the first half, you have to ride the bench. If you pick up one foul in the first 5 minutes, you are playing on eggshells. If it were me, I'd completely adopt NBA rules. Just go with four quarters, eliminate the one-and-one, and go to double bonus once you get to five team fouls. Nearly every college hoops game you hit the bonus with 7-10 minutes left in the half.

    My other big complaint is the final four itself. I strongly dislike how they play a basketball game in a football arena. Basketball is meant to be played in a basketball arena. Unless you play hoops, you won't understand how hard it is to shoot a ball in a football arena. Rather than the backdrop of the crowd or walls being slightly behind the hoop, it goes much further back. It's not a coincidence that both teams struggled to shoot in the championship game. Some of the misses were beyond bricks. Good chance they will never move away from the football venue because of the revenue and ticket sales. I was just surprised that the CBS crew didn't bring it up at all.

    In the end, I think the better team won. UNC played the better and made plays in the last couple minutes whereas Gonzaga didn't. A lot of that had to do with NWG turning his ankle, but Few decided to roll the dice and put the ball in his hands. As a UW fan, I am happy with the result, but I'm well aware that Gonzaga is a staying power and will be competing for many final fours in the future. Great season for the Zags, but it's tough losing in the championship because everyone knows it won't be easy to get back there.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:09 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Chapow wrote:I agree with most that it was a poorly officiated game, but the whole "the fix was in" narrative is pretty ridiculous..


    The only fix I thought of was CBS telling the refs to slow the game down to wring another 30-40 minutes of commercials out of the broadcast.

    But yes overall this was one of the sloppiest, ugliest, poorly played and officiated finals I can remember.

    If Gonzaga just makes even half of the free throws they missed, they win this game going away.

    This and what Hawk-Lock postedThe Zags had their chances,All they had to do was not turn it over more than UNC or make more free throws.The little things bite you in the end.I think the Zags proved they belonged and are a great team but UNC was a hair better.Had it been any other team I think the Zags win it..
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:56 pm
  • I agree with almost all of what Hawk lock stated. I disagree that UNC is better. They were down in the first half when all our bigs were not strapped with foul trouble. If it wasn't for turnovers like was stated they would have been down double digits.
    You can't really tell much from the second half as it was a joke. Is UNC better? Maybe, they managed to make the plays down the stretch aided by a missed out of bounds call.
    Had Collins not been strapped with two pathetic foul calls early in the second half I guarantee we would have scored more. Refs fouled up that game plain and simple.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:57 pm
  • Zags fans aren't going to like it, but can anybody read this article and honestly come to the conclusion that it's not a pretty fair take on the championship game?

    http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basket ... xp2nud1hyl

    Yes, of course the refs made some errors. They always do. But quite frankly, that was a pretty poorly played game by both teams.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:36 am
  • Hawkstorian wrote:
    dopeboy206 wrote:I'm a UW fan. Don't like Gonzaga but I thought they got screwed. Refs sucked. I feel bad for Collins. Refs were horrible.


    Why does being a UW fan mean you don't like Gonzaga? They play in totally different leagues and don't really overlap recruiting very much. In fact, when they have gone after the same guy UW normally gets him.

    Why do I have to like them?


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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:46 am
  • It makes sense not to like another team in the same area as your team in college basketball. The teams are likely competing for a lot of the same recruits. I haven't followed CBB recruiting in years, so maybe that's not so much the case. But anyway, teams that win tend to have an easier time getting good recruits.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:57 am

Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:00 am
  • Nigel Williams Goss also leaving for NBA.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:25 am
  • Collins should be mid round pick. I don't see NWG being an NBA prospect. He is an average athlete, doesn't have a great outside shot, and doesn't have great size for a PG. Wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't get drafted.
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:32 am
  • Hawk-Lock wrote:Collins should be mid round pick. I don't see NWG being an NBA prospect. He is an average athlete, doesn't have a great outside shot, and doesn't have great size for a PG. Wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't get drafted.



    I could see him sticking somewhere as a glue guy on the bench. But he might be a guy who ends up making his money playing over in Europe. There's plenty of money to be made on that side of the pond. He's a guy like Dorsey and Brooks from Oregon who are limited by physical factors which won't improve their draft stock by coming back for another year. Might as well go out and start making your money, whether its here or oversea's. Especially since I believe Williams Goss already has his degree.
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    JSeahawks
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Re: Zags 2016/2017 Thread
Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:42 am
  • I can understand why Goss left but as strong as this draft class is I agree that he may not be drafted. I think he does get on with an NBA team though
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