NFL regains some sanity, will ditch the long extra point

kearly

New member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
15,975
Reaction score
0
http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp14/s ... rustration

One experiment is coming to an end this week. The two-week practice of having extra points from the 15-yard line will end following the Washington-Cleveland game Monday night. The league wanted more drama on extra points, which had become an almost automatic play. Eight extra points (more than in the entire 2013 regular season) were missed in the first 30 preseason games, and Friday's Oakland-Detroit matchup provided an example of the impact of a missed 33-yard extra point.

Lions kicker Nate Freese missed an extra point in the first quarter. That ultimately allowed the Raiders to win in the final six seconds by getting a touchdown and the elongated extra point, which prevented overtime in a 27-26 Raiders win in a game that lasted 3:26 and had 18 penalties marched off.

8 misses in 30 games. Deciding factor in 1 of 30 games. Over a full regular season that would prorate to 68 missed extra points and 8 or 9 games being decided because of a PAT.

I never understood why the NFL thought throwing more stat-noise or chaotic element into a contest was smart, but at least they learned quickly.
 
OP
OP
kearly

kearly

New member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
15,975
Reaction score
0
Sourdough #49":2enp9bgt said:
Phil Dawson is relieved.

Heh.

I hated the idea, but I actually think this rule was a big advantage to Seattle. Hauschka is one of the very best inside 40 yards, he splits the uprights just about every time. Last year I think his only miss inside 40 was a routine PAT, funny enough.
 

RolandDeschain

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
33,117
Reaction score
947
Location
Kissimmee, FL
Meh, I hope something changes, still. The average commercial is more entertaining than a PAT is. Seriously, they need to do away with it and force a two-point conversion attempt every time you get a TD, or something.
 

Smelly McUgly

New member
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
4,282
Reaction score
0
Location
God's Country AKA Cascadia AKA The Pacific Northwe
kearly":16awaihe said:
Sourdough #49":16awaihe said:
Phil Dawson is relieved.

Heh.

I hated the idea, but I actually think this rule was a big advantage to Seattle. Hauschka is one of the very best inside 40 yards, he splits the uprights just about every time. Last year I think his only miss inside 40 was a routine PAT, funny enough.

He shanked a twenty-yard FG against the Cardinals at the end of the first half of the second game.
 

DavidSeven

New member
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Messages
5,742
Reaction score
0
Good. It was a silly rule-change. We don't need even more of the game riding on the foot of a single place kicker.

If they want to change it, then just make it an automatic 7 on a TD with an option to go for 8 (total). Add in 1-point penalty if you fail on the 8-point conversion (since you still want it to be a gamble). So, 7 would be automatic, 8 for a conversion, and 6 on a failed conversion.
 

chris98251

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Messages
39,534
Reaction score
1,532
Location
Roy Wa.
Cool, now lets hope it continues and they drop kick the ticky tacky PI rules.
 

Shadowhawk

New member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
1,513
Reaction score
0
Move it from the 2 to the 1 yard line to encourage more 2-point tries.
 

Seahawk Sailor

Active member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
22,963
Reaction score
1
Location
California via Negros Occidental, Philippines
Shadowhawk":2cm6zahi said:
Move it from the 2 to the 1 yard line to encourage more 2-point tries.

Yep. That and kick it from the exact placement from where the ball went into the end zone, with say, a five-yard buffer for the very edge of the field. That'd put a lot of excitement into it, and increase strategy and such.
 

bigtrain21

New member
Joined
Jul 27, 2012
Messages
1,685
Reaction score
0
RolandDeschain":1ielxpga said:
Meh, I hope something changes, still. The average commercial is more entertaining than a PAT is. Seriously, they need to do away with it and force a two-point conversion attempt every time you get a TD, or something.

I don't like that either because then the outcome could possibly rest on who was better at goal line offense. I think that would benefit us but I don't want games decided by single plays on the goal line. I would hate to see a hard fought defensive game be decided 8-6 because one team converted their two point conversion and the other didn't.

I would like to see them just do away with it but give the team a guaranteed extra point unless you wanted to gamble your guaranteed extra point and go for 2. So each TD would be 7 unless you decided to go for 2 then it would be either 8 or 6 depending on whether you were successful or not.
 

nepahawk

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2010
Messages
668
Reaction score
17
Location
Northeastern Pennsylvania
kearly":2nhustbt said:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp14/story/_/id/11368862/mailbag-penalties-cause-preseason-frustration

One experiment is coming to an end this week. The two-week practice of having extra points from the 15-yard line will end following the Washington-Cleveland game Monday night. The league wanted more drama on extra points, which had become an almost automatic play. Eight extra points (more than in the entire 2013 regular season) were missed in the first 30 preseason games, and Friday's Oakland-Detroit matchup provided an example of the impact of a missed 33-yard extra point.

Lions kicker Nate Freese missed an extra point in the first quarter. That ultimately allowed the Raiders to win in the final six seconds by getting a touchdown and the elongated extra point, which prevented overtime in a 27-26 Raiders win in a game that lasted 3:26 and had 18 penalties marched off.

8 misses in 30 games. Deciding factor in 1 of 30 games. Over a full regular season that would prorate to 68 missed extra points and 8 or 9 games being decided because of a PAT.

I never understood why the NFL thought throwing more stat-noise or chaotic element into a contest was smart, but at least they learned quickly.

I'm not sure they learned quickly. They planned to only try it for 2 weeks.

I think they will eventually go with the 33 yd pats and it wouldn't surprise me if they narrowed the uprights.
 

MizzouHawkGal

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 16, 2012
Messages
13,477
Reaction score
844
Location
Kansas City, MO
nepahawk":t8gqx2yy said:
kearly":t8gqx2yy said:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp14/story/_/id/11368862/mailbag-penalties-cause-preseason-frustration

One experiment is coming to an end this week. The two-week practice of having extra points from the 15-yard line will end following the Washington-Cleveland game Monday night. The league wanted more drama on extra points, which had become an almost automatic play. Eight extra points (more than in the entire 2013 regular season) were missed in the first 30 preseason games, and Friday's Oakland-Detroit matchup provided an example of the impact of a missed 33-yard extra point.

Lions kicker Nate Freese missed an extra point in the first quarter. That ultimately allowed the Raiders to win in the final six seconds by getting a touchdown and the elongated extra point, which prevented overtime in a 27-26 Raiders win in a game that lasted 3:26 and had 18 penalties marched off.

8 misses in 30 games. Deciding factor in 1 of 30 games. Over a full regular season that would prorate to 68 missed extra points and 8 or 9 games being decided because of a PAT.

I never understood why the NFL thought throwing more stat-noise or chaotic element into a contest was smart, but at least they learned quickly.

I'm not sure they learned quickly. They planned to only try it for 2 weeks.

I think they will eventually go with the 33 yd pats and it wouldn't surprise me if they narrowed the uprights.
Agreed but better would be to have multipurpose goalposts like Australian Rules Football. The narrow bars for extra points the regular ones for field goals.
 

volsunghawk

New member
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
8,860
Reaction score
0
Location
Right outside Richard Sherman's house
nepahawk":2zpsi5u5 said:
kearly":2zpsi5u5 said:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp14/story/_/id/11368862/mailbag-penalties-cause-preseason-frustration

One experiment is coming to an end this week. The two-week practice of having extra points from the 15-yard line will end following the Washington-Cleveland game Monday night. The league wanted more drama on extra points, which had become an almost automatic play. Eight extra points (more than in the entire 2013 regular season) were missed in the first 30 preseason games, and Friday's Oakland-Detroit matchup provided an example of the impact of a missed 33-yard extra point.

Lions kicker Nate Freese missed an extra point in the first quarter. That ultimately allowed the Raiders to win in the final six seconds by getting a touchdown and the elongated extra point, which prevented overtime in a 27-26 Raiders win in a game that lasted 3:26 and had 18 penalties marched off.

8 misses in 30 games. Deciding factor in 1 of 30 games. Over a full regular season that would prorate to 68 missed extra points and 8 or 9 games being decided because of a PAT.

I never understood why the NFL thought throwing more stat-noise or chaotic element into a contest was smart, but at least they learned quickly.

I'm not sure they learned quickly. They planned to only try it for 2 weeks.

I think they will eventually go with the 33 yd pats and it wouldn't surprise me if they narrowed the uprights.

Yup, wishful thinking, Kearly. The NFL was just doing its initial test run on this for 2 weeks.

For the record, it's one thing to say, "8 misses in 30 games! What an impact!!"

It's another to say "8 misses in 136 attempts. 94.1% success versus 99.5% success. And about half of those misses were by rookie kickers."

So for the past two weeks, the XP hasn't been COMPLETELY automatic. It's just been MOSTLY automatic.
 

Tech Worlds

Active member
Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
11,272
Reaction score
26
Location
Granite Falls, WA
They didn't ditch it. It was always in the plans to test it during these first games. We will see next year if they adopt it.
 

Fudwamper

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
1,457
Reaction score
107
I actually like the longer extra points.

I do like the idea of the automatic 7, or 6 or 8 that other people brought up too.
 
OP
OP
kearly

kearly

New member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
15,975
Reaction score
0
DavidSeven":1bvbrh0v said:
Good. It was a silly rule-change. We don't need even more of the game riding on the foot of a single place kicker.

If they want to change it, then just make it an automatic 7 on a TD with an option to go for 8 (total). Add in 1-point penalty if you fail on the 8-point conversion (since you still want it to be a gamble). So, 7 would be automatic, 8 for a conversion, and 6 on a failed conversion.

I feel the same way, 100%. Would be just fine with an automatic 7. Would make games a few minutes shorter too.
 

RolandDeschain

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
33,117
Reaction score
947
Location
Kissimmee, FL
bigtrain21":3ncc8vjf said:
I don't like that either because then the outcome could possibly rest on who was better at goal line offense.
Yeah, God forbid a game's outcome be determined by an offense's ability to score or a defense's ability to prevent scoring. The league would disintegrate as we know it. ;)
 
OP
OP
kearly

kearly

New member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
15,975
Reaction score
0
volsunghawk":t7i9i1i7 said:
Yup, wishful thinking, Kearly. The NFL was just doing its initial test run on this for 2 weeks.

For the record, it's one thing to say, "8 misses in 30 games! What an impact!!"

It's another to say "8 misses in 136 attempts. 94.1% success versus 99.5% success. And about half of those misses were by rookie kickers."

So for the past two weeks, the XP hasn't been COMPLETELY automatic. It's just been MOSTLY automatic.

Say what you want, 8 in 30 games, or 1 in 20 PATs if you prefer, is a big deal. It will allow a chaotic element teams have no control over to decide several games a season.

Maybe it comes back next year. Goodell loves terrible ideas and arbitrary changes. Always has, always will.
 
OP
OP
kearly

kearly

New member
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
15,975
Reaction score
0
RolandDeschain":146bvfd4 said:
bigtrain21":146bvfd4 said:
I don't like that either because then the outcome could possibly rest on who was better at goal line offense.
Yeah, God forbid a game's outcome be determined by an offense's ability to score or a defense's ability to prevent scoring. The league would disintegrate as we know it. ;)

I think what worries him is small sample size randomness, and the fact that points after touchdown are considered more of an accessory in football than a main feature, and therefore it's considered less than ideal to have a mistake on one of these plays be the difference in a game.

Most offenses and defenses are going to be close to the same in 2 point situations, basically it's a 50/50 proposition. Forcing teams to go for two would add a chaotic element to the game where a team that is luckier on conversions that day could win because of it. That's not to say it's unfair, but it puts more weight of the outcome in the hands of random luck and less into what teams do the rest of the game.

My argument against the longer PAT is that the added chance for a miss could strike either team totally at random and could easily decide a close game. Missing a very short kick is less about skill and more about uncontrollable human error and chance. It may only be a 5% difference but over a season it will decide a few games. This is similar to the reason the old overtime rules were eliminated, because too many games were decided by a coinflip. A coinflip is fair, but it's totally luck based and allows a game to be decided by something other than actual football.

Forcing teams to go for two is even more extreme in terms of luck/variance since the risk/reward of a 2 point play is much higher. It is very possible for a good offense to be unlucky and go 1/3 on 2 pointers on a given day, or vice versa.

In fairness to your argument, at least the 2 point conversion method would mean games are being decided with actual football plays that are drawn up and executed, whereas the longer extra point in no way reflects the quality of the two teams. I think the status quo is fine because it keeps the randomness factor to a minimum, but I would be just fine with automatic 7 point TDs that can gamble a point for 8.
 

Latest posts

Top