95.7 The GAME ‏@957thegame · 2m
Fmr NFL agent Joel Corry says Kaepernick had to be made aware of the potential worse case scenarios and pitfalls of contract before signing

JZ#1 wrote:

Sports Hernia wrote:And regardless where you are, there are Niners trolls calling Hawks trolls etc. They jump on every single Hawk story and make their stupid comments. Yet, when Hawks fans do it, they are "trolls" and "bandwagon"

Santa Clara, not the brightest crew out there.
Like I've said in the past, stupidity and mental illness is rampant amongst that fan base IMHO.

This is such a terrible statement. You should be ashamed. I have a family member who has a mental illness. And guess what? She is a product of the State of Washington and a Seahawks fan. You are so narrowminded. Its not even funny. News flash dude, mental illness is rampant in every single state.This is just as much an issue in Washington as it is in any state. And not only that, but I would venture to guess that there are more mental illness related deaths per person in Washington than in California because people are happier in California, than Washington since the weather is so dam poor.

Shame on you. Not something you joke about.

This is a football forum. We are talking about football. You take football WAY too seriously. I hope nothing bad happens to you where you have to eat your words, because I couldn't wish what my family has gone through to give my sister the best medication and treatment possible on ANYBODY. Not even my worse enemy.

Its football. Its a game. WOW

5 points:

1. So much faux outrage, In a failed attempt to make me look like pure evil, LOL!

2. Over-react much Francis?

3. Looks like someone's bottom is still hurt from being "exposed".

4. Thanks for proving my point about niner fans in general, there are a couple of rare exceptions of course, you are not one of those.

5. You can take your faux outrage back to your home forum, the webzone, I'm sure you'll find some sympathy there over the "outrageous" things I've said about you, your team, and the mental state of your beloved niners fanbase.

PS. Happy Friday sir!

Jville wrote:You Trolls are never done.

Shaping discussions and perspectives about 49er subject matter is the preoccupation of 49er trolls.

A plague insisting on imprinting their culture ... to the detriment of native culture.

LOL.

I never said I was done posting. I said I was done giving you a hard time about not answering the question.

...and I am.

Smelly McUgly wrote:Montana's 2-4 on the road not counting the Super Bowl (1-3 with the 49ers, two losses coming to the powerhouse Giants of the '80s).

Young's 0-3 on the road not counting the Super Bowl (0-2, really because he apparently got hurt early in one game against Green Bay).

I guess Marvin has a point about that.

So that's a combined 1-5 as 49ers on the road not counting Super Bowls.

Kap is 3-1.

I'm not putting him in their category...not even close...just sayin he's far better in "big games" than peeps here give him credit for.

Marvin49 wrote:95.7 The GAME ‏@957thegame · 2m
Fmr NFL agent Joel Corry says Kaepernick had to be made aware of the potential worse case scenarios and pitfalls of contract before signing

Congratulations Joel. Your on Marvin's approved list.

Jville wrote:

Marvin49 wrote:95.7 The GAME ‏@957thegame · 2m
Fmr NFL agent Joel Corry says Kaepernick had to be made aware of the potential worse case scenarios and pitfalls of contract before signing

Congratulations Joel. Your on Marvin's approved list.

LOL, ouch!

Well played!

SoulfishHawk wrote:Well, if you think Kaep is a big game, clutch QB, that's fine. We can agree to disagree.
He's a hell of a QB, I don't doubt that. But his decision making is what sets him apart from the top guys.

EDIT: realized my post was trollish. my bad

Front7vLOB wrote:

SoulfishHawk wrote:Well, if you think Kaep is a big game, clutch QB, that's fine. We can agree to disagree.
He's a hell of a QB, I don't doubt that. But his decision making is what sets him apart from the top guys.

Outside of the games in Seattle, what other games have you seen of the 49ers where you have said, "wow, Kap makes bad decisions and is not a clutch QB."?????

I am genuinely curious.

Please cite any game. I know you are going to cite the Super Bowl, but, just to humor me, let's ignore that game too (I thought Kap was good in the SB and I don't think anyone could fairly say that final drive in the redzone was his fault). So, outside 4 games (3 in Seattle and the SB), what other games have you watched of the 49ers that induced you to believe that Kap is bad at making decisions and is not a big game, clutch QB?

Problem is he has to deal with the Seahawks for years and years.

Jville wrote:

Marvin49 wrote:95.7 The GAME ‏@957thegame · 2m
Fmr NFL agent Joel Corry says Kaepernick had to be made aware of the potential worse case scenarios and pitfalls of contract before signing

Congratulations Joel. Your on Marvin's approved list.

Yea...but its not all roses....

95.7 The GAME ‏@957thegame · 12m
Joel Corry says as an agent he would not have advised Kap or any other player to sign this type of contract...

MizzouHawkGal wrote:

Front7vLOB wrote:

SoulfishHawk wrote:Well, if you think Kaep is a big game, clutch QB, that's fine. We can agree to disagree.
He's a hell of a QB, I don't doubt that. But his decision making is what sets him apart from the top guys.

Outside of the games in Seattle, what other games have you seen of the 49ers where you have said, "wow, Kap makes bad decisions and is not a clutch QB."?????

I am genuinely curious.

Please cite any game. I know you are going to cite the Super Bowl, but, just to humor me, let's ignore that game too (I thought Kap was good in the SB and I don't think anyone could fairly say that final drive in the redzone was his fault). So, outside 4 games (3 in Seattle and the SB), what other games have you watched of the 49ers that induced you to believe that Kap is bad at making decisions and is not a big game, clutch QB?

Problem is he has to deal with the Seahawks for years and years.

dangit, I tried deleting this post. was hoping no one read it.

but, now that someone responded, i might as well further comment...

I realize Kap has to deal with the Seahawks. But, let's not forget the Seahawks have failed to win in the Bay Area longer than the 49ers have failed to win in Seattle. Even the national media forgets this.

So, I could just as easily say the Seahawks have to deal with the 49ers for years and years.

Popeyejones wrote:

Fudwamper wrote:I feel sorry for Kap.

LOL at the concern trolling.

Your argument is basically that:

A) You are an outlier in that unlike most others you weren't expecting him to sign for a deal that, depending on his play, is lower than recently signed second-tier quarterbacks (e.g. Cutler, Flacco, Stafford, etc.; basically if he plays like these guys he'll get paid less than them).

No it is interesting to me to see a considered top 10 quarterback take a very strange very high risk contract that has him paying insurance for the 49ers.

B) You don't understand how taking a MUCH lower guaranteed signing bonus than expected frees up room for more re-signings from today through the next league year.

But it doesn't. why don't you see that? He could have taken less base salary more signing bonus/guaranteed money and still came out the same numbers There really is nothing in the contract that helps the team with singing other players. His contract is a 3 year tryout, that he takes all the risk. That is the part that I can't understand from an outside view. Kapernick is taking all the risk. The 49ers are taking none. That's just bad advice negotiating on the agents part.

C) You don't understand how including de-escalators if they don't go to the SB or he isn't an All-Pro frees up money to bring in more firepower.

Having escalators is common contract language, what is significant is the De-esculators and what they are. so again this is nothing grand, it is telling of the FO.

The first is an opinion, and the later two are just strange claims to make.

Also, it's worth saying that you rejecting an explanation is not the same thing as one not being offered, which is what happened above.
You are correct but not answering the question is not the same, see point b again.

What makes this contract unique, is it does not free up any extra money in a unique way, or helps to resign players in a friendly way, it is that a top 10 QB is taking a very unfriendly contract. This contract places all the risk on the player. The organization is getting all benefits. The player is even paying the insurance after taxes for the organization if he gets hurt So that guaranteed money if he gets hurt the player is actually paying for.

Marvin49 wrote:

Jville wrote:

Marvin49 wrote:95.7 The GAME ‏@957thegame · 2m
Fmr NFL agent Joel Corry says Kaepernick had to be made aware of the potential worse case scenarios and pitfalls of contract before signing

Congratulations Joel. Your on Marvin's approved list.

Yea...but its not all roses....

95.7 The GAME ‏@957thegame · 12m
Joel Corry says as an agent he would not have advised Kap or any other player to sign this type of contract...

A lot of us listened in on that podcast and many others. We are not subjects of your approval or interpretations.

Marvin49 wrote:

Jville wrote:

Marvin49 wrote:95.7 The GAME ‏@957thegame · 2m
Fmr NFL agent Joel Corry says Kaepernick had to be made aware of the potential worse case scenarios and pitfalls of contract before signing

Congratulations Joel. Your on Marvin's approved list.

Yea...but its not all roses....

95.7 The GAME ‏@957thegame · 12m
Joel Corry says as an agent he would not have advised Kap or any other player to sign this type of contract...

This is what I am trying to point out. The agent failed at his job and left a young man holding the bag. If I saw a player on the hawks have this contract I would be shaking my head in disbelief that the agent allowed this type of contract to even reach the player.

Fudwamper wrote:
What makes this contract unique, is it does not free up any extra money in a unique way, or helps to resign players in a friendly way, it is that a top 10 QB is taking a very unfriendly contract. This contract places all the risk on the player. The organization is getting all benefits. The player is even paying the insurance after taxes for the organization if he gets hurt So that guaranteed money if he gets hurt the player is actually paying for. [/i]

you refuse to focus on the fact that Kap agreed to what is essentially a 3 year $43m contract. How that doesn't "free up any extra money in a unique way" escapes me. Because, from what I and NFL analysts across all media outlets can gather, is that the 49ers have a ton of extra money compared to what Kap was projected to make the first few years of his contract...

I'm sorry you fail to see that..

Your interpretation of this deal is Kap has no security and that the 49ers must not trust him..

I think a fairer way to analyze this is by assuming one thing. The 49ers and Kap want to win the SB in the next 3 years. That is their window.

After those three years, the 49ers and Kap have 3 options:
(1) they can stick to this contract and Kap will get paid handsomely

(2) they can renegotiate the contract. If Kap plays really well but fails to make All-Pro or make the SB (let's say he has is voted to the Pro Bowl and has a string of NFCCG appearances), the 49ers will probably gladly give him more security and guaranteed $

(3) the 49ers and Kap can go their separate ways. Kap will only be 29, and will attract many other NFL suitors who will pay him the big bucks...




Why is this interpretation not feasible to you?

RolandDeschain wrote:Super Bowls count as road games.

<homerhat>
Unless it's SB48 and the 12s make a louder showing than most home games at MetLife
</homehat>

Jville wrote:

Marvin49 wrote:

Jville wrote:

Marvin49 wrote:95.7 The GAME ‏@957thegame · 2m
Fmr NFL agent Joel Corry says Kaepernick had to be made aware of the potential worse case scenarios and pitfalls of contract before signing

Congratulations Joel. Your on Marvin's approved list.

Yea...but its not all roses....

95.7 The GAME ‏@957thegame · 12m
Joel Corry says as an agent he would not have advised Kap or any other player to sign this type of contract...

A lot of us listened in on that podcast and many others. We are not subjects of your approval or interpretations.

Who said you were...just posted something I saw on twitter. Chillax.

Marvin49 wrote:

Jville wrote:

Marvin49 wrote:

Jville wrote:
Congratulations Joel. Your on Marvin's approved list.

Yea...but its not all roses....

95.7 The GAME ‏@957thegame · 12m
Joel Corry says as an agent he would not have advised Kap or any other player to sign this type of contract...

A lot of us listened in on that podcast and many others. We are not subjects of your approval or interpretations.

Who said you were...just posted something I saw on twitter. Chillax.

Sorry to hear that.

Original sourcing is far more reliable and informative.

Marvin will soon have more posts on here than Colin has passing yards.

JZ#1 wrote:
This is such a terrible statement. You should be ashamed. I have a family member who has a mental illness. And guess what? She is a product of the State of Washington and a Seahawks fan.

What? Just one?

Look, I am pretty sure that anything directly connected to your DNA has mental illness. I bet your confusion batter probably swims in circles and has crossed eyes too. I'm pretty certain that if I reported you, that you would be forbidden to procreate.

Front7vLOB wrote:

Fudwamper wrote:
What makes this contract unique, is it does not free up any extra money in a unique way, or helps to resign players in a friendly way, it is that a top 10 QB is taking a very unfriendly contract. This contract places all the risk on the player. The organization is getting all benefits. The player is even paying the insurance after taxes for the organization if he gets hurt So that guaranteed money if he gets hurt the player is actually paying for. [/i]

you refuse to focus on the fact that Kap agreed to what is essentially a 3 year $43m contract. How that doesn't "free up any extra money in a unique way" escapes me. Because, from what I and NFL analysts across all media outlets can gather, is that the 49ers have a ton of extra money compared to what Kap was projected to make the first few years of his contract...

I'm sorry you fail to see that..

Your interpretation of this deal is Kap has no security and that the 49ers must not trust him..

I think a fairer way to analyze this is by assuming one thing. The 49ers and Kap want to win the SB in the next 3 years. That is their window.

After those three years, the 49ers and Kap have 3 options:
(1) they can stick to this contract and Kap will get paid handsomely

(2) they can renegotiate the contract. If Kap plays really well but fails to make All-Pro or make the SB (let's say he has is voted to the Pro Bowl and has a string of NFCCG appearances), the 49ers will probably gladly give him more security and guaranteed $

(3) the 49ers and Kap can go their separate ways. Kap will only be 29, and will attract many other NFL suitors who will pay him the big bucks...




Why is this interpretation not feasible to you?

Kaep doesn't have any say in the situation after 3 years. The 49ers do. I am not sure how many times we have to say this to you. You didn't get a discount. You got flexibility.

Front7vLOB wrote:

Fudwamper wrote:
What makes this contract unique, is it does not free up any extra money in a unique way, or helps to resign players in a friendly way, it is that a top 10 QB is taking a very unfriendly contract. This contract places all the risk on the player. The organization is getting all benefits. The player is even paying the insurance after taxes for the organization if he gets hurt So that guaranteed money if he gets hurt the player is actually paying for. [/i]

you refuse to focus on the fact that Kap agreed to what is essentially a 3 year $43m contract. How that doesn't "free up any extra money in a unique way" escapes me. Because, from what I and NFL analysts across all media outlets can gather, is that the 49ers have a ton of extra money compared to what Kap was projected to make the first few years of his contract...

I'm sorry you fail to see that..

Your interpretation of this deal is Kap has no security and that the 49ers must not trust him..

I think a fairer way to analyze this is by assuming one thing. The 49ers and Kap want to win the SB in the next 3 years. That is their window.

After those three years, the 49ers and Kap have 3 options:
(1) they can stick to this contract and Kap will get paid handsomely

(2) they can renegotiate the contract. If Kap plays really well but fails to make All-Pro or make the SB (let's say he has is voted to the Pro Bowl and has a string of NFCCG appearances), the 49ers will probably gladly give him more security and guaranteed $

(3) the 49ers and Kap can go their separate ways. Kap will only be 29, and will attract many other NFL suitors who will pay him the big bucks...




Why is this interpretation not feasible to you?

The problem is your looking at it as how he does in situations out of his control. Harbaugh leaves and you bring back Singletary for example, you thinsk you still ae contenders, half the line goes down and he has no protection, his receivers leave, the defense becomes sieve. He gets injured. His salary deescalates continually each year. Now add in the level of QB play in the NFC, tough tough competition there also. Pro Bowl is not the same is a All Pro, All Pros are by players and coaches, Pro Bowl is a popularity contest, Big difference. Also as the rest of the drafted QB's as in Wilson, Luck, Tannehill, Foles, etc get contracts that protect them from entangibles outside their own performance how long do you think he will be Happy Kaepi. Those are the aspects that are really bad in his contract, he gets the shaft if the rest of the team or coaches don't play up to the standards set in his contract.

bigtrain21 wrote:Kaep doesn't have any say in the situation after 3 years. The 49ers do. I am not sure how many times we have to say this to you. You didn't get a discount. You got flexibility.

Regarding Kap not having a say, that is a joke. There are methods Kap and his agents can employ to force the 49ers hand. Just as teams don't necessarily have to honor a contract, neither do players.

While Kap's roster spot on the 49ers is up to the team, Kap has the power to hold out, demand a trade, etc. And since the 49ers have no risk when it comes to cutting Kap, they can easily do so if he presents any problems.

----------------------------------------

http://www.sacbee.com/2014/06/06/646409 ... ranks.html

Here are the official numbers for Colin Kaepernick's new contract. The deal averages $19 million overall and $18.666 over the first three years. His salary cap number for this year is $3.767 million. That jumps to $15.266 next year and goes up every year after that if he is still on the team, ending at $21.4 million in 2020.

Here's where Kaepernick's average per-year-total ranks among quarterbacks. Each of the players ahead of Kaepernick, aside from Matt Ryan, has won a Super Bowl.

1. Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay: $22 million

2. Matt Ryan, Atlanta: $20.75 million

3. Joe Flacco, Baltimore: $20.1 million

4. Drew Brees, New Orleans: $20 million

5. Peyton Manning, Denver: $19.2 million

6. Colin Kaepernick, San Francisco: $19 million

7. Jay Cutler, Chicago: $18.1 million

8. Tony Romo, Dallas: $18 million

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2014/06/06/646409 ... rylink=cpy

How is this not a discount? People were projecting Matt Ryan money. In fact, the average of amount saved compared to a Matt Ryan deal is $2m a year in space (that's the average for the entire length of the contract-- it's obviously a backloaded deal so the savings is larger for the first few years).

Once RW, Andrew Luck, and Cam Newton sign their extensions, Kap will be the 9th highest paid QB...

That is saving cap space. End of story.

Regarding Kap not having a say, that is a joke. There are methods Kap and his agents can employ to force the 49ers hand. Just as teams don't necessarily have to honor a contract, neither do players.

Right ...... although there are a couple of 49ers and their agents that might take issue with that.

Poor Jim got left out ..... coaches are people too.

Marvin49 wrote:

Jville wrote:Shaping discussions and perspectives about 49er subject matter is the preoccupation of 49er trolls.

A plague insisting on imprinting their culture ... to the detriment of native culture.

Asking you to answer a simple question isn't "A plague insisting on imprinting their culture ... to the detriment of native culture".

...dodge...

Ya know what tho? I'm done hounding you on it. I've made my point.

If Russell Wilson signed this contract I would think he's an idiot. Although, Russell would never be offered a contract like this one from the Seahawks because he has proven worthy of a TRUE long term deal.

My conclusion is that chokernick is an idiot.

Front7vLOB

Your posting best case number which based on the de escalators he will more then likely never see, All Pro Status, winning a Super Bowl all are great, but that is also ego feeding and since he has other then Brady and Manning the best QB's in the league in his division that he has to compete to get 1st or 2nd team all pro consideration with. He also plays in a division that is the toughest in the league and with argueably 4 teams that are legitmate Super Bowl contenders. Those de escalators from my understanding are going from season to season so with each one not acheived it makes the next years salary less for each one not reached.

Worst part is he is not in control of most of it, if you change coaches, lose players etc he still takes the hit. He is also paying the insurance policy that pays the 49ers for not protecting him should he get hurt. Why would you insure the employer rather then yourself?

FWIW, Joe Flacco doesn't have a $20M/year contract. That is the biggest misconception in the football world. His deal is almost entirely back loaded and averages a (relatively) paltry $12M in cap hits over the first three years. His deal will be re-done after those first three years. His cap that year is $30M. If you think the Ravens are taking that cap hit, then I have some swamp land to sell you.

Marvin49 wrote:

byau wrote:

Jville wrote:

Marvin49 wrote:
Really? If Wilson signed a deal this friendly to the Seahawks, what would you say?

What do you think this is ....... a fantasy forum?

Interesting question, because if you check out any page of conversations and you'll find a lot of "fantasy forum" type posts. What if this? What if that? What do you think will happen? etc..etc. All I see on this forum, especially in the offseason, is reminiscing about the past and putting guesses out there on the future "What if? What if?"

Regarding Marvin49's question: I not only see nothing wrong with this "assumption", I think it is a valid question. And I agree: If the exact same story came out but you swapped Kap's name for Wilson's, the reaction here would be a lot different. And the opposite is likely true if you are on the 49ers forum - praising Kap for his selflessness, and if the names were swapped they'd be bagging on Wilson too.

I'm guessing Marvin49 is just saying when you consider this likelihood, maybe just maybe it's possible Kap didn't go into this making a mistake, rather he actually did this to help the 49ers organization help build the team so he can win

You don't think that's a valid way to support his point?

This.

...and yes, 49er fans would probably bag on Wilsons deal. Nature of the beast.

Homers with rose colored blinders fill up team/fan forums and online team articles for every team. Every site has intelligent and reasonable posters as well. There are just fewer of them.....

A thought in passing ...... even though it may crowd the comfort zone of an obvious special interest pack.

Secondary sourcing and hearsay is what produced the initial splash and imagery of the original topic. It was misleading. Clearer details and meaningful content were revealed only after information dissemination came in closer contact with originating sources. We would be well served to incorporate this understanding in our mindset ... so as to invest time in appraising both information and source.

This thread has been another lesson, that far to often, secondary sources inadvertently or purposefully produce slanted and biased perspective to advance their agenda. All sources are local. Those sources are accountable to a head that in turn is accountable to a select targeted audience. A phenomenon that consistently alludes and shapes the thinking of some visitors.

The rest of the world is not a 49er suburb.

Jville wrote:A thought in passing ...... even though it may crowd the comfort zone of anyone without a spine.

Secondary sourcing and hearsay is what produced the initial splash and imagery of the original topic. It was misleading. Clearer details and meaningful content were revealed only after information dissemination came in closer contact with originating sources. We would be well served to incorporate this understanding in our mindset ... so as to invest time in appraising both information and source.

This thread has been another lesson, that far to often, secondary sources inadvertently or purposefully produce slanted and biased perspective to advance their agenda. All sources are local. Those sources are accountable to a head that in turn is accountable to a select targeted audience. A phenomenon that consistently alludes and shapes the thinking of most forum visitors/posters.

Fixed Otherwise great post!

Sourdough #49 wrote:

Jville wrote:A thought in passing ...... even though it may crowd the comfort zone of anyone without a spine.

Secondary sourcing and hearsay is what produced the initial splash and imagery of the original topic. It was misleading. Clearer details and meaningful content were revealed only after information dissemination came in closer contact with originating sources. We would be well served to incorporate this understanding in our mindset ... so as to invest time in appraising both information and source.

This thread has been another lesson, that far to often, secondary sources inadvertently or purposefully produce slanted and biased perspective to advance their agenda. All sources are local. Those sources are accountable to a head that in turn is accountable to a select targeted audience. A phenomenon that consistently alludes and shapes the thinking of most forum visitors/posters.

Fixed

no need. I'm fine with the original.

Authentic post from the original source as it appeared >>>>

A thought in passing ...... even though it may crowd the comfort zone of an obvious special interest pack.

Secondary sourcing and hearsay is what produced the initial splash and imagery of the original topic. It was misleading. Clearer details and meaningful content were revealed only after information dissemination came in closer contact with originating sources. We would be well served to incorporate this understanding in our mindset ... so as to invest time in appraising both information and source.

This thread has been another lesson, that far to often, secondary sources inadvertently or purposefully produce slanted and biased perspective to advance their agenda. All sources are local. Those sources are accountable to a head that in turn is accountable to a select targeted audience. A phenomenon that consistently alludes and shapes the thinking of some visitors.

The rest of the world is not a 49er suburb.

Man.. I really don't care what KaeperSpaz's contract is made of, but I am of the opinion that any more these things typically never mature to their finality. It seems like it is just a tease for money that the player never actually sees.

In this instance, the Niners certainly saved themselves some serious bank by getting it done now. KaeperSpaz isn't chopped liver, he is just a kid that in a small sample size has choked. Even if the guy just barely improves in his growth, his cost would be higher if the Niners waited and the offers from other teams may have removed him.

I honestly do not believe that CKDB will see the money from his contract's potential, it just seems that more often than not that these contracts end up getting cut short for one reason or another. The FO did a great job in putting together a low risk deal that protects them if CKDB turns elite or if he turns into nothing. Either way, the franchise is protected and are paying much less overall than if they waited.

Now CKDB could get nasty about things once the others get their money, but for now he realizes that he hasn't exactly proven himself worthy of a crazy deal. If he would have won that 2012 Super Bowl or if he didn't completely choke the NFCC in the 4th I think the Niners are paying A LOT more. On the other side of it, if Mikah Hyde doesn't have butterfingers I have to wonder if they even do the deal.

Whatever transpires, I don't see this deal maturing.

I remember the comment of how Seahawk fans would react if Wilson had the same deal.

That isn't even possible. While pleased that the contract wasn't completely ridiculous, the same contract applied to Wilson means far more value.

Unlike CKDB, Wilson didn't choke the biggest game of the year away. In fact, Wilson made clutch plays in that game after an initial miscue that didn't phase him the least. You won't find a game where fans are ripping Wilson for blowing it, he had a stinker in week 16, but he didn't choke the game that really didn't matter anyways. In the Super Bowl he posted a ridiculous rating and admirable stat line. In grind time he was perfect, not a single error in the biggest game of his life.

In his Super Bowl, CKDB took sacks, threw a pick and failed in the clutch. Wilson is the anti-Kaep. He doesn't show anything but poise, doesn't run off the field pouting when he loses, doesn't throw multi pick games and never gives the opponent fuel or draw a fantasy world picture where he claims that DBs are scared. He doesn't kiss his biceps and he doesn't mock the other QB by pulling a Superman pose.

For that, the contract RW gets will be much more rewarding to the player and the fans will want him to be locked up here for his entire career. If he were to get one with CKDB wording, the fans would be pissed that the team did him like that.

RW is a Super Bowl winner in year 2, he wants nothing more than the team to win. I don't think he is going to give a big discount, but I would not be surprised to see him get a very long contract that is structured to be cap friendly to the team and his long term financial stability.

Whatever it is, it will be worth it and the FO knows that he is not a risk at any level.

loafoftatupu wrote:I remember the comment of how Seahawk fans would react if Wilson had the same deal.

That isn't even possible. While pleased that the contract wasn't completely ridiculous, the same contract applied to Wilson means far more value.

Unlike CKDB, Wilson didn't choke the biggest game of the year away. In fact, Wilson made clutch plays in that game after an initial miscue that didn't phase him the least. You won't find a game where fans are ripping Wilson for blowing it, he had a stinker in week 16, but he didn't choke the game that really didn't matter anyways. In the Super Bowl he posted a ridiculous rating and admirable stat line. In grind time he was perfect, not a single error in the biggest game of his life.

In his Super Bowl, CKDB took sacks, threw a pick and failed in the clutch. Wilson is the anti-Kaep. He doesn't show anything but poise, doesn't run off the field pouting when he loses, doesn't throw multi pick games and never gives the opponent fuel or draw a fantasy world picture where he claims that DBs are scared. He doesn't kiss his biceps and he doesn't mock the other QB by pulling a Superman pose.

For that, the contract RW gets will be much more rewarding to the player and the fans will want him to be locked up here for his entire career. If he were to get one with CKDB wording, the fans would be pissed that the team did him like that.

RW is a Super Bowl winner in year 2, he wants nothing more than the team to win. I don't think he is going to give a big discount, but I would not be surprised to see him get a very long contract that is structured to be cap friendly to the team and his long term financial stability.

Whatever it is, it will be worth it and the FO knows that he is not a risk at any level.

Very nice post.

loafoftatupu wrote:I remember the comment of how Seahawk fans would react if Wilson had the same deal.

That isn't even possible. While pleased that the contract wasn't completely ridiculous, the same contract applied to Wilson means far more value.

Unlike CKDB, Wilson didn't choke the biggest game of the year away. In fact, Wilson made clutch plays in that game after an initial miscue that didn't phase him the least. You won't find a game where fans are ripping Wilson for blowing it, he had a stinker in week 16, but he didn't choke the game that really didn't matter anyways. In the Super Bowl he posted a ridiculous rating and admirable stat line. In grind time he was perfect, not a single error in the biggest game of his life.

In his Super Bowl, CKDB took sacks, threw a pick and failed in the clutch. Wilson is the anti-Kaep. He doesn't show anything but poise, doesn't run off the field pouting when he loses, doesn't throw multi pick games and never gives the opponent fuel or draw a fantasy world picture where he claims that DBs are scared. He doesn't kiss his biceps and he doesn't mock the other QB by pulling a Superman pose.

For that, the contract RW gets will be much more rewarding to the player and the fans will want him to be locked up here for his entire career. If he were to get one with CKDB wording, the fans would be pissed that the team did him like that.

RW is a Super Bowl winner in year 2, he wants nothing more than the team to win. I don't think he is going to give a big discount, but I would not be surprised to see him get a very long contract that is structured to be cap friendly to the team and his long term financial stability.

Whatever it is, it will be worth it and the FO knows that he is not a risk at any level.

There you go again with facts!....... Sigh!

In all seriousness, great post!

First - I skipped all post and just posted.


Second -

Contract not that bad for the Niners if kap does what the contract says, I'm fine paying him that.

loafoftatupu wrote:I remember the comment of how Seahawk fans would react if Wilson had the same deal.

That isn't even possible. While pleased that the contract wasn't completely ridiculous, the same contract applied to Wilson means far more value.

Unlike CKDB, Wilson didn't choke the biggest game of the year away. In fact, Wilson made clutch plays in that game after an initial miscue that didn't phase him the least. You won't find a game where fans are ripping Wilson for blowing it, he had a stinker in week 16, but he didn't choke the game that really didn't matter anyways. In the Super Bowl he posted a ridiculous rating and admirable stat line. In grind time he was perfect, not a single error in the biggest game of his life.

In his Super Bowl, CKDB took sacks, threw a pick and failed in the clutch. Wilson is the anti-Kaep. He doesn't show anything but poise, doesn't run off the field pouting when he loses, doesn't throw multi pick games and never gives the opponent fuel or draw a fantasy world picture where he claims that DBs are scared. He doesn't kiss his biceps and he doesn't mock the other QB by pulling a Superman pose.

For that, the contract RW gets will be much more rewarding to the player and the fans will want him to be locked up here for his entire career. If he were to get one with CKDB wording, the fans would be pissed that the team did him like that.

RW is a Super Bowl winner in year 2, he wants nothing more than the team to win. I don't think he is going to give a big discount, but I would not be surprised to see him get a very long contract that is structured to be cap friendly to the team and his long term financial stability.

Whatever it is, it will be worth it and the FO knows that he is not a risk at any level.

For the record, I happen to agree with you that Wilson won't sign a contact like Kaps. That was never my point. The point was always about the negative spin given to the 49ers, Kap and his agent that IMO would be given an entirely different spin had it been signed by Wilson.

The contract is similar in structure to the contracts the 49ers have ALL their players sign to protect themselves from injury, poor performance, etc. what makes this contract is that they have never appeared in a QBs contract and have never been on this scale. Kaepernick is betting on himself and the 49ers are giving him money they didn't need to. Signing him now saves them tons down the road, but their clear assumption is that he will be here down the road. Otherwise they could have let h play out his contract and the franchised him. Twice if need be and it would still have been cheaper.

The Seahawks haven't traditionally signed players to these types of contracts, so I wholeheartedly agree that Seatte won't. That was never the pint of the question. The question was about the lens you look through and hypocracy.

One last thing about helping the team...if Kap signed a contract like this, it's tough for an agent to say his guy shouldn't when the highest payed player on the team accepted that structure.

EDIT: ...and I typed this on my phone outside my sons guitar class so please excuse the horrendous spelling and grammar. Sigh.

Marvin49 wrote:

loafoftatupu wrote:I remember the comment of how Seahawk fans would react if Wilson had the same deal.

That isn't even possible. While pleased that the contract wasn't completely ridiculous, the same contract applied to Wilson means far more value.

Unlike CKDB, Wilson didn't choke the biggest game of the year away. In fact, Wilson made clutch plays in that game after an initial miscue that didn't phase him the least. You won't find a game where fans are ripping Wilson for blowing it, he had a stinker in week 16, but he didn't choke the game that really didn't matter anyways. In the Super Bowl he posted a ridiculous rating and admirable stat line. In grind time he was perfect, not a single error in the biggest game of his life.

In his Super Bowl, CKDB took sacks, threw a pick and failed in the clutch. Wilson is the anti-Kaep. He doesn't show anything but poise, doesn't run off the field pouting when he loses, doesn't throw multi pick games and never gives the opponent fuel or draw a fantasy world picture where he claims that DBs are scared. He doesn't kiss his biceps and he doesn't mock the other QB by pulling a Superman pose.

For that, the contract RW gets will be much more rewarding to the player and the fans will want him to be locked up here for his entire career. If he were to get one with CKDB wording, the fans would be pissed that the team did him like that.

RW is a Super Bowl winner in year 2, he wants nothing more than the team to win. I don't think he is going to give a big discount, but I would not be surprised to see him get a very long contract that is structured to be cap friendly to the team and his long term financial stability.

Whatever it is, it will be worth it and the FO knows that he is not a risk at any level.

For the record, I happen to agree with you that Wilson won't sign a contact like Kaps. That was never my point. The point was always about the negative spin given to the 49ers, Kap and his agent that IMO would be given an entirely different spin had it been signed by Wilson.

The contract is similar in structure to the contracts the 49ers have ALL their players sign to protect themselves from injury, poor performance, etc. what makes this contract is that they have never appeared in a QBs contract and have never been on this scale. Kaepernick is betting on himself and the 49ers are giving him money they didn't need to. Signing him now saves them tons down the road, but their clear assumption is that he will be here down the road. Otherwise they could have let h play out his contract and the franchised him. Twice if need be and it would still have been cheaper.

The Seahawks haven't traditionally signed players to these types of contracts, so I wholeheartedly agree that Seatte won't. That was never the pint of the question. The question was about the lens you look through and hypocracy.

One last thing about helping the team...if Kap signed a contract like this, it's tough for an agent to say his guy shouldn't when the highest payed player on the team accepted that structure.

Wait a minute...

Hypocrisy?

How could it be hypocrisy if the situation you presented isn't even a potential occurrence?

You are presenting a hypothetical situation Marvin, unless Wilson actually gets a similarly worded contract there just isn't anything to be hypocritical about Bro.

No one can visualize it.

And since when does a Niner fan avoid hypocrisy? Hypocrisy is claiming expectations of being "above reproach" then allowing a beer bottle smashing teammate to play and a convicted felon to practice. Now THAT is hypocrisy.

loafoftatupu wrote:

Marvin49 wrote:

loafoftatupu wrote:I remember the comment of how Seahawk fans would react if Wilson had the same deal.

That isn't even possible. While pleased that the contract wasn't completely ridiculous, the same contract applied to Wilson means far more value.

Unlike CKDB, Wilson didn't choke the biggest game of the year away. In fact, Wilson made clutch plays in that game after an initial miscue that didn't phase him the least. You won't find a game where fans are ripping Wilson for blowing it, he had a stinker in week 16, but he didn't choke the game that really didn't matter anyways. In the Super Bowl he posted a ridiculous rating and admirable stat line. In grind time he was perfect, not a single error in the biggest game of his life.

In his Super Bowl, CKDB took sacks, threw a pick and failed in the clutch. Wilson is the anti-Kaep. He doesn't show anything but poise, doesn't run off the field pouting when he loses, doesn't throw multi pick games and never gives the opponent fuel or draw a fantasy world picture where he claims that DBs are scared. He doesn't kiss his biceps and he doesn't mock the other QB by pulling a Superman pose.

For that, the contract RW gets will be much more rewarding to the player and the fans will want him to be locked up here for his entire career. If he were to get one with CKDB wording, the fans would be pissed that the team did him like that.

RW is a Super Bowl winner in year 2, he wants nothing more than the team to win. I don't think he is going to give a big discount, but I would not be surprised to see him get a very long contract that is structured to be cap friendly to the team and his long term financial stability.

Whatever it is, it will be worth it and the FO knows that he is not a risk at any level.

For the record, I happen to agree with you that Wilson won't sign a contact like Kaps. That was never my point. The point was always about the negative spin given to the 49ers, Kap and his agent that IMO would be given an entirely different spin had it been signed by Wilson.

The contract is similar in structure to the contracts the 49ers have ALL their players sign to protect themselves from injury, poor performance, etc. what makes this contract is that they have never appeared in a QBs contract and have never been on this scale. Kaepernick is betting on himself and the 49ers are giving him money they didn't need to. Signing him now saves them tons down the road, but their clear assumption is that he will be here down the road. Otherwise they could have let h play out his contract and the franchised him. Twice if need be and it would still have been cheaper.

The Seahawks haven't traditionally signed players to these types of contracts, so I wholeheartedly agree that Seatte won't. That was never the pint of the question. The question was about the lens you look through and hypocracy.

One last thing about helping the team...if Kap signed a contract like this, it's tough for an agent to say his guy shouldn't when the highest payed player on the team accepted that structure.

Wait a minute...

Hypocrisy?

How could it be hypocrisy if the situation you presented isn't even a potential occurrence?

You are presenting a hypothetical situation Marvin, unless Wilson actually gets a similarly worded contract there just isn't anything to be hypocritical about Bro.

No one can visualize it.

And since when does a Niner fan avoid hypocrisy? Hypocrisy is claiming expectations of being "above reproach" then allowing a beer bottle smashing teammate to play and a convicted felon to practice. Now THAT is hypocrisy.

Loafo my buddie! Great to see you around the 49er boards recently. I'm looking forward to seeing your team lock up your very talented QB sometime next year. Most important thing about the Kaepernick contract is that it was done and we know Colin will be dueling with Russell for the next 6 plus years. I'm pretty sure you will also lock up wilson in a very lucrative contract very similar - if not even more money - than what Kaepernick got. I look forward to seeing your team and Russell play the 49ers these next couple of years. These two teams are the class of the NFL and unfortunately so is there salaries.

Giedi wrote:

loafoftatupu wrote:

Marvin49 wrote:

loafoftatupu wrote:I remember the comment of how Seahawk fans would react if Wilson had the same deal.

That isn't even possible. While pleased that the contract wasn't completely ridiculous, the same contract applied to Wilson means far more value.

Unlike CKDB, Wilson didn't choke the biggest game of the year away. In fact, Wilson made clutch plays in that game after an initial miscue that didn't phase him the least. You won't find a game where fans are ripping Wilson for blowing it, he had a stinker in week 16, but he didn't choke the game that really didn't matter anyways. In the Super Bowl he posted a ridiculous rating and admirable stat line. In grind time he was perfect, not a single error in the biggest game of his life.

In his Super Bowl, CKDB took sacks, threw a pick and failed in the clutch. Wilson is the anti-Kaep. He doesn't show anything but poise, doesn't run off the field pouting when he loses, doesn't throw multi pick games and never gives the opponent fuel or draw a fantasy world picture where he claims that DBs are scared. He doesn't kiss his biceps and he doesn't mock the other QB by pulling a Superman pose.

For that, the contract RW gets will be much more rewarding to the player and the fans will want him to be locked up here for his entire career. If he were to get one with CKDB wording, the fans would be pissed that the team did him like that.

RW is a Super Bowl winner in year 2, he wants nothing more than the team to win. I don't think he is going to give a big discount, but I would not be surprised to see him get a very long contract that is structured to be cap friendly to the team and his long term financial stability.

Whatever it is, it will be worth it and the FO knows that he is not a risk at any level.

For the record, I happen to agree with you that Wilson won't sign a contact like Kaps. That was never my point. The point was always about the negative spin given to the 49ers, Kap and his agent that IMO would be given an entirely different spin had it been signed by Wilson.

The contract is similar in structure to the contracts the 49ers have ALL their players sign to protect themselves from injury, poor performance, etc. what makes this contract is that they have never appeared in a QBs contract and have never been on this scale. Kaepernick is betting on himself and the 49ers are giving him money they didn't need to. Signing him now saves them tons down the road, but their clear assumption is that he will be here down the road. Otherwise they could have let h play out his contract and the franchised him. Twice if need be and it would still have been cheaper.

The Seahawks haven't traditionally signed players to these types of contracts, so I wholeheartedly agree that Seatte won't. That was never the pint of the question. The question was about the lens you look through and hypocracy.

One last thing about helping the team...if Kap signed a contract like this, it's tough for an agent to say his guy shouldn't when the highest payed player on the team accepted that structure.

Wait a minute...

Hypocrisy?

How could it be hypocrisy if the situation you presented isn't even a potential occurrence?

You are presenting a hypothetical situation Marvin, unless Wilson actually gets a similarly worded contract there just isn't anything to be hypocritical about Bro.

No one can visualize it.

And since when does a Niner fan avoid hypocrisy? Hypocrisy is claiming expectations of being "above reproach" then allowing a beer bottle smashing teammate to play and a convicted felon to practice. Now THAT is hypocrisy.

Loafo my buddie! Great to see you around the 49er boards recently. I'm looking forward to seeing your team lock up your very talented QB sometime next year. Most important thing about the Kaepernick contract is that it was done and we know Colin will be dueling with Russell for the next 6 plus years. I'm pretty sure you will also lock up wilson in a very lucrative contract very similar - if not even more money - than what Kaepernick got. I look forward to seeing your team and Russell play the 49ers these next couple of years. These two teams are the class of the NFL and unfortunately so is there salaries.

Do you have multiple personalities? I ask this because your viciousness towards anything Seattle on the webzone seems to be off the charts compared to this post. I'm not trying to start anything over here as I hope you can be civil here, just curious.

PS. for the record I don't have an account over there, just read it for the "looney toons style" entertainment value.

Fudwamper wrote:

Popeyejones wrote:

Fudwamper wrote:I feel sorry for Kap.

LOL at the concern trolling.

Your argument is basically that:

A) You are an outlier in that unlike most others you weren't expecting him to sign for a deal that, depending on his play, is lower than recently signed second-tier quarterbacks (e.g. Cutler, Flacco, Stafford, etc.; basically if he plays like these guys he'll get paid less than them).

No it is interesting to me to see a considered top 10 quarterback take a very strange very high risk contract that has him paying insurance for the 49ers.

B) You don't understand how taking a MUCH lower guaranteed signing bonus than expected frees up room for more re-signings from today through the next league year.

But it doesn't. why don't you see that? He could have taken less base salary more signing bonus/guaranteed money and still came out the same numbers There really is nothing in the contract that helps the team with singing other players. His contract is a 3 year tryout, that he takes all the risk. That is the part that I can't understand from an outside view. Kapernick is taking all the risk. The 49ers are taking none. That's just bad advice negotiating on the agents part.

C) You don't understand how including de-escalators if they don't go to the SB or he isn't an All-Pro frees up money to bring in more firepower.

Having escalators is common contract language, what is significant is the De-esculators and what they are. so again this is nothing grand, it is telling of the FO.

The first is an opinion, and the later two are just strange claims to make.

Also, it's worth saying that you rejecting an explanation is not the same thing as one not being offered, which is what happened above.
You are correct but not answering the question is not the same, see point b again.

What makes this contract unique, is it does not free up any extra money in a unique way, or helps to resign players in a friendly way, it is that a top 10 QB is taking a very unfriendly contract. This contract places all the risk on the player. The organization is getting all benefits. The player is even paying the insurance after taxes for the organization if he gets hurt So that guaranteed money if he gets hurt the player is actually paying for.

I think you're probably going to have decide if it is unique or not to include de-escalators if he's not a top 4 QB in the league. You acknowledge that it is, and then later conclude that it isn't in order to maintain your stance that there's nothing unique about the contract and the flexibility it gives the team. It is simple: If Kap isn't an all-pro or the 9ers don't reach the Super Bowl thenn his contract automatically decreases which frees up more cap room to bring in more firepower. It's an atypical thing to put in a contract (which you acknowledge before you deny), and it inarguably helps the team pay more for more players in the event that they need them. Not to be a jerk, but I really don't understand what's complicated about this.

Likewise, regarding the abonormally low signing bonus, you are at the same time arguing that it places risk on the player but does not give the team more flexibility. I'm sure you can see the incongruity here. Taking a lower signing bonus gives the team more flexibility because the money is not guaranteed. A signing bonus is a signing bonus is a signing bonus. Salary can be adjusted and moved around from year to year to sign and resign players as need be (a la what the Patriots do with Tom Brady), a signing bonus cannot. This too is not that complicated.

If you insist on arguing that the 9ers are jerks or Kaepernick is an idiot for the contract they mutually agreed on that's fine, but arguing in addition that it does not give the team more flexibility in re-signing or bringing in other players simply betrays basic logic.

Sports Hernia wrote:
PS. for the record I don't have an account over there, just read it for the "looney tunes style" entertainment value.

Feeling a bit defensive?

loafoftatupu wrote:I remember the comment of how Seahawk fans would react if Wilson had the same deal.

That isn't even possible. While pleased that the contract wasn't completely ridiculous, the same contract applied to Wilson means far more value.

Unlike CKDB, Wilson didn't choke the biggest game of the year away. In fact, Wilson made clutch plays in that game after an initial miscue that didn't phase him the least. You won't find a game where fans are ripping Wilson for blowing it, he had a stinker in week 16, but he didn't choke the game that really didn't matter anyways. In the Super Bowl he posted a ridiculous rating and admirable stat line. In grind time he was perfect, not a single error in the biggest game of his life.

In his Super Bowl, CKDB took sacks, threw a pick and failed in the clutch. Wilson is the anti-Kaep. He doesn't show anything but poise, doesn't run off the field pouting when he loses, doesn't throw multi pick games and never gives the opponent fuel or draw a fantasy world picture where he claims that DBs are scared. He doesn't kiss his biceps and he doesn't mock the other QB by pulling a Superman pose.

For that, the contract RW gets will be much more rewarding to the player and the fans will want him to be locked up here for his entire career. If he were to get one with CKDB wording, the fans would be pissed that the team did him like that.

RW is a Super Bowl winner in year 2, he wants nothing more than the team to win. I don't think he is going to give a big discount, but I would not be surprised to see him get a very long contract that is structured to be cap friendly to the team and his long term financial stability.

Whatever it is, it will be worth it and the FO knows that he is not a risk at any level.

This. Just look at the Bennett, Sherman, Thomas, and even Baldwin contracts if you need anymore confirmation. The Seahawks pay well but with cap friendly contracts to the players they deem as core.

Sourdough #49 wrote:

Sports Hernia wrote:
PS. for the record I don't have an account over there, just read it for the "looney tunes style" entertainment value.

Feeling a bit defensive?

Nope, I'm just an expert in my field......... Nina Troll hunter!

Sports Hernia wrote:]
Do you have multiple personalities? I ask this because your viciousness towards anything Seattle on the webzone seems to be off the charts compared to this post. I'm not trying to start anything over here as I hope you can be civil here, just curious.

PS. for the record I don't have an account over there, just read it for the "looney toons style" entertainment value.

Giedi has been taking lessons from me for some time. He behaves himself when here, as I do on the Niner boards, but lets it out at home. For different reasons though. No smack shack at the Niner board, otherwise I would let it fly.

It isn't like Marvin, who has to share feelings at every turn. Those guys talk about minutiae like cheating and PEDs, I might respond with one fact based comment and then drop it, knowing it is pointless. Giedi pretty much rolls the same way, but when he is off his meds he lives in another dimension or frequency. Kind of like the Reptilian Society.

I like the guy, he is just bat-shit crazy.

loafoftatupu wrote:

Sports Hernia wrote:]
Do you have multiple personalities? I ask this because your viciousness towards anything Seattle on the webzone seems to be off the charts compared to this post. I'm not trying to start anything over here as I hope you can be civil here, just curious.

PS. for the record I don't have an account over there, just read it for the "looney toons style" entertainment value.

Giedi has been taking lessons from me for some time. He behaves himself when here, as I do on the Niner boards, but lets it out at home. For different reasons though. No smack shack at the Niner board, otherwise I would let it fly.

It isn't like Marvin, who has to share feelings at every turn. Those guys talk about minutiae like cheating and PEDs, I might respond with one fact based comment and then drop it, knowing it is pointless. Giedi pretty much rolls the same way, but when he is off his meds he lives in another dimension or frequency. Kind of like the Reptilian Society.

I like the guy, he is just bat-shit crazy.

I see, I'll be monitoring this situation closely!

loafoftatupu wrote:

Marvin49 wrote:

loafoftatupu wrote:I remember the comment of how Seahawk fans would react if Wilson had the same deal.

That isn't even possible. While pleased that the contract wasn't completely ridiculous, the same contract applied to Wilson means far more value.

Unlike CKDB, Wilson didn't choke the biggest game of the year away. In fact, Wilson made clutch plays in that game after an initial miscue that didn't phase him the least. You won't find a game where fans are ripping Wilson for blowing it, he had a stinker in week 16, but he didn't choke the game that really didn't matter anyways. In the Super Bowl he posted a ridiculous rating and admirable stat line. In grind time he was perfect, not a single error in the biggest game of his life.

In his Super Bowl, CKDB took sacks, threw a pick and failed in the clutch. Wilson is the anti-Kaep. He doesn't show anything but poise, doesn't run off the field pouting when he loses, doesn't throw multi pick games and never gives the opponent fuel or draw a fantasy world picture where he claims that DBs are scared. He doesn't kiss his biceps and he doesn't mock the other QB by pulling a Superman pose.

For that, the contract RW gets will be much more rewarding to the player and the fans will want him to be locked up here for his entire career. If he were to get one with CKDB wording, the fans would be pissed that the team did him like that.

RW is a Super Bowl winner in year 2, he wants nothing more than the team to win. I don't think he is going to give a big discount, but I would not be surprised to see him get a very long contract that is structured to be cap friendly to the team and his long term financial stability.

Whatever it is, it will be worth it and the FO knows that he is not a risk at any level.

For the record, I happen to agree with you that Wilson won't sign a contact like Kaps. That was never my point. The point was always about the negative spin given to the 49ers, Kap and his agent that IMO would be given an entirely different spin had it been signed by Wilson.

The contract is similar in structure to the contracts the 49ers have ALL their players sign to protect themselves from injury, poor performance, etc. what makes this contract is that they have never appeared in a QBs contract and have never been on this scale. Kaepernick is betting on himself and the 49ers are giving him money they didn't need to. Signing him now saves them tons down the road, but their clear assumption is that he will be here down the road. Otherwise they could have let h play out his contract and the franchised him. Twice if need be and it would still have been cheaper.

The Seahawks haven't traditionally signed players to these types of contracts, so I wholeheartedly agree that Seatte won't. That was never the pint of the question. The question was about the lens you look through and hypocracy.

One last thing about helping the team...if Kap signed a contract like this, it's tough for an agent to say his guy shouldn't when the highest payed player on the team accepted that structure.

Wait a minute...

Hypocrisy?

How could it be hypocrisy if the situation you presented isn't even a potential occurrence?

You are presenting a hypothetical situation Marvin, unless Wilson actually gets a similarly worded contract there just isn't anything to be hypocritical about Bro.

No one can visualize it.

And since when does a Niner fan avoid hypocrisy? Hypocrisy is claiming expectations of being "above reproach" then allowing a beer bottle smashing teammate to play and a convicted felon to practice. Now THAT is hypocrisy.

Its hypocrisy if he would have a completely different opinion if the players were switched. I am not calling him a hypocrite BTW because he never answered the question.

That doesn't mean that the QUESTION wasn't about hypocrisy.

Hypothetical situations are discussed all the time in forums...it just seems that when its a 49er fan saying something that peeps don't like this is the reaction I get.

Why is it so out of bounds to ask if someone would have a different reaction if it were a Seattle player as opposed to an SF player? The question really isn't about the organizations or anything like that...its about asking yourself if you would have the same reaction if you liked the player as opposed to not liking the player. If a guy signs a team friendly deal, is it because he's stupid, his agent screwed up, and the team is evil, or is it because the player wanted to help the team remain in contention.

Forget this specific contract. Just look at that above scenario....if both players simply took 5 mil below market value to help the team, how would you characterize the deals. My guess is you (not you specifically...I mean in general) would have differing opinions based on your opinions of the player and the team involved. It's human nature. 49er fans would likely do the exact same thing.

That all I was saying to begin with before it as always blew up into something altogether different. My initial comment was only that IMO the posters response and opinion would be different if it weren't Kap and the 49ers. Far less venom, far less assumptions of the agent screwing up, etc.

You disagree? No worries. You're entitled. I still believe what I said tho even if many of you disagree.

loafoftatupu wrote:

Sports Hernia wrote:]
Do you have multiple personalities? I ask this because your viciousness towards anything Seattle on the webzone seems to be off the charts compared to this post. I'm not trying to start anything over here as I hope you can be civil here, just curious.

PS. for the record I don't have an account over there, just read it for the "looney toons style" entertainment value.

Giedi has been taking lessons from me for some time. He behaves himself when here, as I do on the Niner boards, but lets it out at home. For different reasons though. No smack shack at the Niner board, otherwise I would let it fly.

It isn't like Marvin, who has to share feelings at every turn. Those guys talk about minutiae like cheating and PEDs, I might respond with one fact based comment and then drop it, knowing it is pointless. Giedi pretty much rolls the same way, but when he is off his meds he lives in another dimension or frequency. Kind of like the Reptilian Society.

I like the guy, he is just bat-shit crazy.

Guilty.

Popeyejones wrote:

Fudwamper wrote:

Popeyejones wrote:

Fudwamper wrote:I feel sorry for Kap.

LOL at the concern trolling.

Your argument is basically that:

A) You are an outlier in that unlike most others you weren't expecting him to sign for a deal that, depending on his play, is lower than recently signed second-tier quarterbacks (e.g. Cutler, Flacco, Stafford, etc.; basically if he plays like these guys he'll get paid less than them).

No it is interesting to me to see a considered top 10 quarterback take a very strange very high risk contract that has him paying insurance for the 49ers.

B) You don't understand how taking a MUCH lower guaranteed signing bonus than expected frees up room for more re-signings from today through the next league year.

But it doesn't. why don't you see that? He could have taken less base salary more signing bonus/guaranteed money and still came out the same numbers There really is nothing in the contract that helps the team with singing other players. His contract is a 3 year tryout, that he takes all the risk. That is the part that I can't understand from an outside view. Kapernick is taking all the risk. The 49ers are taking none. That's just bad advice negotiating on the agents part.

C) You don't understand how including de-escalators if they don't go to the SB or he isn't an All-Pro frees up money to bring in more firepower.

Having escalators is common contract language, what is significant is the De-esculators and what they are. so again this is nothing grand, it is telling of the FO.

The first is an opinion, and the later two are just strange claims to make.

Also, it's worth saying that you rejecting an explanation is not the same thing as one not being offered, which is what happened above.
You are correct but not answering the question is not the same, see point b again.

What makes this contract unique, is it does not free up any extra money in a unique way, or helps to resign players in a friendly way, it is that a top 10 QB is taking a very unfriendly contract. This contract places all the risk on the player. The organization is getting all benefits. The player is even paying the insurance after taxes for the organization if he gets hurt So that guaranteed money if he gets hurt the player is actually paying for.

I think you're probably going to have decide if it is unique or not to include de-escalators if he's not a top 4 QB in the league. You acknowledge that it is, and then later conclude that it isn't in order to maintain your stance that there's nothing unique about the contract and the flexibility it gives the team. It is simple: If Kap isn't an all-pro or the 9ers don't reach the Super Bowl thenn his contract automatically decreases which frees up more cap room to bring in more firepower. It's an atypical thing to put in a contract (which you acknowledge before you deny), and it inarguably helps the team pay more for more players in the event that they need them. Not to be a jerk, but I really don't understand what's complicated about this.

Likewise, regarding the abonormally low signing bonus, you are at the same time arguing that it places risk on the player but does not give the team more flexibility. I'm sure you can see the incongruity here. Taking a lower signing bonus gives the team more flexibility because the money is not guaranteed. A signing bonus is a signing bonus is a signing bonus. Salary can be adjusted and moved around from year to year to sign and resign players as need be (a la what the Patriots do with Tom Brady), a signing bonus cannot. This too is not that complicated.

If you insist on arguing that the 9ers are jerks or Kaepernick is an idiot for the contract they mutually agreed on that's fine, but arguing in addition that it does not give the team more flexibility in re-signing or bringing in other players simply betrays basic logic.

I think the problem he's having in seeing how the contract will help them sign players is that he's ONLY looking at those aspects of the contact that protect the 49ers from risk.

IE...

1) Low Signing bonus making low dead money if he's released
2) Rolling guarantees
3) De-escalators
4) Per game roster bonuses

Yup...those are mostly about covering the 49ers. No question. Novorro Bowman, Anthony Davis, and Ahmad Brooks have very similar things in their contracts. Brooks contract de-escalated last year and Bowman will miss out on some of his per game bonuses this year. The Niners are able to get players to sign to these terms by signing them 1 or sometimes even 2 full years early...IE the sacrifice the money for structure. They've been doing it for awhile. They could have paid Bowman less on his rookie deal and the same with Davis...but they resigned very early and got the structure they wanted. That's how they operate.

Most often, if a guy reaches Free Agency, thatr guy is gone because they couldn't or didn't want to resign him a few years earlier. That's what we are seeing right now with Crab and Iupati. My guess is they take a stab at resigning Crab and probably fail because he'll want too much and Iupati will walk as well. That's why the got Stevie Johnson and why the draft two interior linemen fairly high this year.

The aspects of this contract though that make it easier to sign players are...

1) Again, that low signing bonus that creates a low first year commitment and allows then to take that stab at resigning Crab.
2) Over the life of the deal this will become a well below market value contract. Fans here choose to see this and say he'll feel duped and hold out...however those relatively low salary numbers in a few years will allow them to keep guys because he'll never have a 31 mil cap hit ALA Joe Flacco. It'll cap out at 23 and that's only if he hits those performance standards. Choosing to believe he'll feel duped makes it impossible to see that this very fact makes it possible to keep guys.


If you look at only the guarantees, roster bonuses, and de-escalators, then of course it looks like the contract only helps the team against risk. Those aren't tho the only aspects of the contract that people are commenting on. Bottom line, its a below market deal long term and allows the team to sign a guy or 2 here in the short term.

Marvin49 wrote:

loafoftatupu wrote:

Sports Hernia wrote:]
Do you have multiple personalities? I ask this because your viciousness towards anything Seattle on the webzone seems to be off the charts compared to this post. I'm not trying to start anything over here as I hope you can be civil here, just curious.

PS. for the record I don't have an account over there, just read it for the "looney toons style" entertainment value.

Giedi has been taking lessons from me for some time. He behaves himself when here, as I do on the Niner boards, but lets it out at home. For different reasons though. No smack shack at the Niner board, otherwise I would let it fly.

It isn't like Marvin, who has to share feelings at every turn. Those guys talk about minutiae like cheating and PEDs, I might respond with one fact based comment and then drop it, knowing it is pointless. Giedi pretty much rolls the same way, but when he is off his meds he lives in another dimension or frequency. Kind of like the Reptilian Society.

I like the guy, he is just bat-shit crazy.

Guilty.

Ya think?

Like you, my wife is prone to sharing her feelings with descriptive dialog too. I tolerate it because she has specific talents that I appreciate to go with that amazing body blessed with melons by the gods.

I am just guessing you don't bring that to the table. So go hug it out on the DenialZone Bro. We will wait for you. I promise.

loafoftatupu wrote:

Marvin49 wrote:

loafoftatupu wrote:

Sports Hernia wrote:]
Do you have multiple personalities? I ask this because your viciousness towards anything Seattle on the webzone seems to be off the charts compared to this post. I'm not trying to start anything over here as I hope you can be civil here, just curious.

PS. for the record I don't have an account over there, just read it for the "looney toons style" entertainment value.

Giedi has been taking lessons from me for some time. He behaves himself when here, as I do on the Niner boards, but lets it out at home. For different reasons though. No smack shack at the Niner board, otherwise I would let it fly.

It isn't like Marvin, who has to share feelings at every turn. Those guys talk about minutiae like cheating and PEDs, I might respond with one fact based comment and then drop it, knowing it is pointless. Giedi pretty much rolls the same way, but when he is off his meds he lives in another dimension or frequency. Kind of like the Reptilian Society.

I like the guy, he is just bat-shit crazy.

Guilty.

Ya think?

Like you, my wife is prone to sharing her feelings with descriptive dialog too. I tolerate it because she has specific talents that I appreciate to go with that amazing body blessed with melons by the gods.

I am just guessing you don't bring that to the table. So go hug it out on the DenialZone Bro. We will wait for you. I promise.

Zing!!!