95.7 The GAME @957thegame · 2m
Fmr NFL agent Joel Corry says Kaepernick had to be made aware of the potential worse case scenarios and pitfalls of contract before signing
JZ#1 wrote:Sports Hernia wrote:And regardless where you are, there are Niners trolls calling Hawks trolls etc. They jump on every single Hawk story and make their stupid comments. Yet, when Hawks fans do it, they are "trolls" and "bandwagon"![]()
Santa Clara, not the brightest crew out there.
Like I've said in the past, stupidity and mental illness is rampant amongst that fan base IMHO.
This is such a terrible statement. You should be ashamed. I have a family member who has a mental illness. And guess what? She is a product of the State of Washington and a Seahawks fan. You are so narrowminded. Its not even funny. News flash dude, mental illness is rampant in every single state.This is just as much an issue in Washington as it is in any state. And not only that, but I would venture to guess that there are more mental illness related deaths per person in Washington than in California because people are happier in California, than Washington since the weather is so dam poor.
Shame on you. Not something you joke about.
This is a football forum. We are talking about football. You take football WAY too seriously. I hope nothing bad happens to you where you have to eat your words, because I couldn't wish what my family has gone through to give my sister the best medication and treatment possible on ANYBODY. Not even my worse enemy.
Its football. Its a game. WOW
Jville wrote:You Trolls are never done.
Shaping discussions and perspectives about 49er subject matter is the preoccupation of 49er trolls.
A plague insisting on imprinting their culture ... to the detriment of native culture.
Smelly McUgly wrote:Montana's 2-4 on the road not counting the Super Bowl (1-3 with the 49ers, two losses coming to the powerhouse Giants of the '80s).
Young's 0-3 on the road not counting the Super Bowl (0-2, really because he apparently got hurt early in one game against Green Bay).
I guess Marvin has a point about that.
Marvin49 wrote:95.7 The GAME @957thegame · 2m
Fmr NFL agent Joel Corry says Kaepernick had to be made aware of the potential worse case scenarios and pitfalls of contract before signing
Jville wrote:Marvin49 wrote:95.7 The GAME @957thegame · 2m
Fmr NFL agent Joel Corry says Kaepernick had to be made aware of the potential worse case scenarios and pitfalls of contract before signing
Congratulations Joel. Your on Marvin's approved list.
SoulfishHawk wrote:Well, if you think Kaep is a big game, clutch QB, that's fine. We can agree to disagree.
He's a hell of a QB, I don't doubt that. But his decision making is what sets him apart from the top guys.
Front7vLOB wrote:SoulfishHawk wrote:Well, if you think Kaep is a big game, clutch QB, that's fine. We can agree to disagree.
He's a hell of a QB, I don't doubt that. But his decision making is what sets him apart from the top guys.
Outside of the games in Seattle, what other games have you seen of the 49ers where you have said, "wow, Kap makes bad decisions and is not a clutch QB."?????
I am genuinely curious.
Please cite any game. I know you are going to cite the Super Bowl, but, just to humor me, let's ignore that game too (I thought Kap was good in the SB and I don't think anyone could fairly say that final drive in the redzone was his fault). So, outside 4 games (3 in Seattle and the SB), what other games have you watched of the 49ers that induced you to believe that Kap is bad at making decisions and is not a big game, clutch QB?
Jville wrote:Marvin49 wrote:95.7 The GAME @957thegame · 2m
Fmr NFL agent Joel Corry says Kaepernick had to be made aware of the potential worse case scenarios and pitfalls of contract before signing
Congratulations Joel. Your on Marvin's approved list.
MizzouHawkGal wrote:Front7vLOB wrote:SoulfishHawk wrote:Well, if you think Kaep is a big game, clutch QB, that's fine. We can agree to disagree.
He's a hell of a QB, I don't doubt that. But his decision making is what sets him apart from the top guys.
Outside of the games in Seattle, what other games have you seen of the 49ers where you have said, "wow, Kap makes bad decisions and is not a clutch QB."?????
I am genuinely curious.
Please cite any game. I know you are going to cite the Super Bowl, but, just to humor me, let's ignore that game too (I thought Kap was good in the SB and I don't think anyone could fairly say that final drive in the redzone was his fault). So, outside 4 games (3 in Seattle and the SB), what other games have you watched of the 49ers that induced you to believe that Kap is bad at making decisions and is not a big game, clutch QB?
Problem is he has to deal with the Seahawks for years and years.
Popeyejones wrote:Fudwamper wrote:I feel sorry for Kap.
LOL at the concern trolling.
Your argument is basically that:
A) You are an outlier in that unlike most others you weren't expecting him to sign for a deal that, depending on his play, is lower than recently signed second-tier quarterbacks (e.g. Cutler, Flacco, Stafford, etc.; basically if he plays like these guys he'll get paid less than them).
No it is interesting to me to see a considered top 10 quarterback take a very strange very high risk contract that has him paying insurance for the 49ers.
B) You don't understand how taking a MUCH lower guaranteed signing bonus than expected frees up room for more re-signings from today through the next league year.
But it doesn't. why don't you see that? He could have taken less base salary more signing bonus/guaranteed money and still came out the same numbers There really is nothing in the contract that helps the team with singing other players. His contract is a 3 year tryout, that he takes all the risk. That is the part that I can't understand from an outside view. Kapernick is taking all the risk. The 49ers are taking none. That's just bad advice negotiating on the agents part.
C) You don't understand how including de-escalators if they don't go to the SB or he isn't an All-Pro frees up money to bring in more firepower.
Having escalators is common contract language, what is significant is the De-esculators and what they are. so again this is nothing grand, it is telling of the FO.
The first is an opinion, and the later two are just strange claims to make.
Also, it's worth saying that you rejecting an explanation is not the same thing as one not being offered, which is what happened above.
You are correct but not answering the question is not the same, see point b again.
Marvin49 wrote:Jville wrote:Marvin49 wrote:95.7 The GAME @957thegame · 2m
Fmr NFL agent Joel Corry says Kaepernick had to be made aware of the potential worse case scenarios and pitfalls of contract before signing
Congratulations Joel. Your on Marvin's approved list.
Yea...but its not all roses....
95.7 The GAME @957thegame · 12m
Joel Corry says as an agent he would not have advised Kap or any other player to sign this type of contract...
Marvin49 wrote:Jville wrote:Marvin49 wrote:95.7 The GAME @957thegame · 2m
Fmr NFL agent Joel Corry says Kaepernick had to be made aware of the potential worse case scenarios and pitfalls of contract before signing
Congratulations Joel. Your on Marvin's approved list.
Yea...but its not all roses....
95.7 The GAME @957thegame · 12m
Joel Corry says as an agent he would not have advised Kap or any other player to sign this type of contract...
Fudwamper wrote:
What makes this contract unique, is it does not free up any extra money in a unique way, or helps to resign players in a friendly way, it is that a top 10 QB is taking a very unfriendly contract. This contract places all the risk on the player. The organization is getting all benefits. The player is even paying the insurance after taxes for the organization if he gets hurt So that guaranteed money if he gets hurt the player is actually paying for. [/i]
RolandDeschain wrote:Super Bowls count as road games.
Jville wrote:Marvin49 wrote:Jville wrote:Marvin49 wrote:95.7 The GAME @957thegame · 2m
Fmr NFL agent Joel Corry says Kaepernick had to be made aware of the potential worse case scenarios and pitfalls of contract before signing
Congratulations Joel. Your on Marvin's approved list.
Yea...but its not all roses....
95.7 The GAME @957thegame · 12m
Joel Corry says as an agent he would not have advised Kap or any other player to sign this type of contract...
A lot of us listened in on that podcast and many others. We are not subjects of your approval or interpretations.
Marvin49 wrote:Jville wrote:Marvin49 wrote:Jville wrote:
Congratulations Joel. Your on Marvin's approved list.
Yea...but its not all roses....
95.7 The GAME @957thegame · 12m
Joel Corry says as an agent he would not have advised Kap or any other player to sign this type of contract...
A lot of us listened in on that podcast and many others. We are not subjects of your approval or interpretations.
Who said you were...just posted something I saw on twitter. Chillax.
JZ#1 wrote:
This is such a terrible statement. You should be ashamed. I have a family member who has a mental illness. And guess what? She is a product of the State of Washington and a Seahawks fan.
Front7vLOB wrote:Fudwamper wrote:
What makes this contract unique, is it does not free up any extra money in a unique way, or helps to resign players in a friendly way, it is that a top 10 QB is taking a very unfriendly contract. This contract places all the risk on the player. The organization is getting all benefits. The player is even paying the insurance after taxes for the organization if he gets hurt So that guaranteed money if he gets hurt the player is actually paying for. [/i]
you refuse to focus on the fact that Kap agreed to what is essentially a 3 year $43m contract. How that doesn't "free up any extra money in a unique way" escapes me. Because, from what I and NFL analysts across all media outlets can gather, is that the 49ers have a ton of extra money compared to what Kap was projected to make the first few years of his contract...
I'm sorry you fail to see that..
Your interpretation of this deal is Kap has no security and that the 49ers must not trust him..
I think a fairer way to analyze this is by assuming one thing. The 49ers and Kap want to win the SB in the next 3 years. That is their window.
After those three years, the 49ers and Kap have 3 options:
(1) they can stick to this contract and Kap will get paid handsomely
(2) they can renegotiate the contract. If Kap plays really well but fails to make All-Pro or make the SB (let's say he has is voted to the Pro Bowl and has a string of NFCCG appearances), the 49ers will probably gladly give him more security and guaranteed $
(3) the 49ers and Kap can go their separate ways. Kap will only be 29, and will attract many other NFL suitors who will pay him the big bucks...
Why is this interpretation not feasible to you?
Front7vLOB wrote:Fudwamper wrote:
What makes this contract unique, is it does not free up any extra money in a unique way, or helps to resign players in a friendly way, it is that a top 10 QB is taking a very unfriendly contract. This contract places all the risk on the player. The organization is getting all benefits. The player is even paying the insurance after taxes for the organization if he gets hurt So that guaranteed money if he gets hurt the player is actually paying for. [/i]
you refuse to focus on the fact that Kap agreed to what is essentially a 3 year $43m contract. How that doesn't "free up any extra money in a unique way" escapes me. Because, from what I and NFL analysts across all media outlets can gather, is that the 49ers have a ton of extra money compared to what Kap was projected to make the first few years of his contract...
I'm sorry you fail to see that..
Your interpretation of this deal is Kap has no security and that the 49ers must not trust him..
I think a fairer way to analyze this is by assuming one thing. The 49ers and Kap want to win the SB in the next 3 years. That is their window.
After those three years, the 49ers and Kap have 3 options:
(1) they can stick to this contract and Kap will get paid handsomely
(2) they can renegotiate the contract. If Kap plays really well but fails to make All-Pro or make the SB (let's say he has is voted to the Pro Bowl and has a string of NFCCG appearances), the 49ers will probably gladly give him more security and guaranteed $
(3) the 49ers and Kap can go their separate ways. Kap will only be 29, and will attract many other NFL suitors who will pay him the big bucks...
Why is this interpretation not feasible to you?
bigtrain21 wrote:Kaep doesn't have any say in the situation after 3 years. The 49ers do. I am not sure how many times we have to say this to you. You didn't get a discount. You got flexibility.
Here are the official numbers for Colin Kaepernick's new contract. The deal averages $19 million overall and $18.666 over the first three years. His salary cap number for this year is $3.767 million. That jumps to $15.266 next year and goes up every year after that if he is still on the team, ending at $21.4 million in 2020.
Here's where Kaepernick's average per-year-total ranks among quarterbacks. Each of the players ahead of Kaepernick, aside from Matt Ryan, has won a Super Bowl.
1. Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay: $22 million
2. Matt Ryan, Atlanta: $20.75 million
3. Joe Flacco, Baltimore: $20.1 million
4. Drew Brees, New Orleans: $20 million
5. Peyton Manning, Denver: $19.2 million
6. Colin Kaepernick, San Francisco: $19 million
7. Jay Cutler, Chicago: $18.1 million
8. Tony Romo, Dallas: $18 million
Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2014/06/06/646409 ... rylink=cpy
Regarding Kap not having a say, that is a joke. There are methods Kap and his agents can employ to force the 49ers hand. Just as teams don't necessarily have to honor a contract, neither do players.
Marvin49 wrote:Jville wrote:Shaping discussions and perspectives about 49er subject matter is the preoccupation of 49er trolls.
A plague insisting on imprinting their culture ... to the detriment of native culture.
Asking you to answer a simple question isn't "A plague insisting on imprinting their culture ... to the detriment of native culture".
...dodge...
Ya know what tho? I'm done hounding you on it. I've made my point.
Marvin49 wrote:byau wrote:Jville wrote:Marvin49 wrote:
Really? If Wilson signed a deal this friendly to the Seahawks, what would you say?
What do you think this is ....... a fantasy forum?
Interesting question, because if you check out any page of conversations and you'll find a lot of "fantasy forum" type posts. What if this? What if that? What do you think will happen? etc..etc. All I see on this forum, especially in the offseason, is reminiscing about the past and putting guesses out there on the future "What if? What if?"
Regarding Marvin49's question: I not only see nothing wrong with this "assumption", I think it is a valid question. And I agree: If the exact same story came out but you swapped Kap's name for Wilson's, the reaction here would be a lot different. And the opposite is likely true if you are on the 49ers forum - praising Kap for his selflessness, and if the names were swapped they'd be bagging on Wilson too.
I'm guessing Marvin49 is just saying when you consider this likelihood, maybe just maybe it's possible Kap didn't go into this making a mistake, rather he actually did this to help the 49ers organization help build the team so he can win
You don't think that's a valid way to support his point?
This.
...and yes, 49er fans would probably bag on Wilsons deal. Nature of the beast.
Jville wrote:A thought in passing ...... even though it may crowd the comfort zone of anyone without a spine.
Secondary sourcing and hearsay is what produced the initial splash and imagery of the original topic. It was misleading. Clearer details and meaningful content were revealed only after information dissemination came in closer contact with originating sources. We would be well served to incorporate this understanding in our mindset ... so as to invest time in appraising both information and source.
This thread has been another lesson, that far to often, secondary sources inadvertently or purposefully produce slanted and biased perspective to advance their agenda. All sources are local. Those sources are accountable to a head that in turn is accountable to a select targeted audience. A phenomenon that consistently alludes and shapes the thinking of most forum visitors/posters.
Sourdough #49 wrote:Jville wrote:A thought in passing ...... even though it may crowd the comfort zone of anyone without a spine.
Secondary sourcing and hearsay is what produced the initial splash and imagery of the original topic. It was misleading. Clearer details and meaningful content were revealed only after information dissemination came in closer contact with originating sources. We would be well served to incorporate this understanding in our mindset ... so as to invest time in appraising both information and source.
This thread has been another lesson, that far to often, secondary sources inadvertently or purposefully produce slanted and biased perspective to advance their agenda. All sources are local. Those sources are accountable to a head that in turn is accountable to a select targeted audience. A phenomenon that consistently alludes and shapes the thinking of most forum visitors/posters.
Fixed
A thought in passing ...... even though it may crowd the comfort zone of an obvious special interest pack.
Secondary sourcing and hearsay is what produced the initial splash and imagery of the original topic. It was misleading. Clearer details and meaningful content were revealed only after information dissemination came in closer contact with originating sources. We would be well served to incorporate this understanding in our mindset ... so as to invest time in appraising both information and source.
This thread has been another lesson, that far to often, secondary sources inadvertently or purposefully produce slanted and biased perspective to advance their agenda. All sources are local. Those sources are accountable to a head that in turn is accountable to a select targeted audience. A phenomenon that consistently alludes and shapes the thinking of some visitors.
The rest of the world is not a 49er suburb.
loafoftatupu wrote:I remember the comment of how Seahawk fans would react if Wilson had the same deal.
That isn't even possible. While pleased that the contract wasn't completely ridiculous, the same contract applied to Wilson means far more value.
Unlike CKDB, Wilson didn't choke the biggest game of the year away. In fact, Wilson made clutch plays in that game after an initial miscue that didn't phase him the least. You won't find a game where fans are ripping Wilson for blowing it, he had a stinker in week 16, but he didn't choke the game that really didn't matter anyways. In the Super Bowl he posted a ridiculous rating and admirable stat line. In grind time he was perfect, not a single error in the biggest game of his life.
In his Super Bowl, CKDB took sacks, threw a pick and failed in the clutch. Wilson is the anti-Kaep. He doesn't show anything but poise, doesn't run off the field pouting when he loses, doesn't throw multi pick games and never gives the opponent fuel or draw a fantasy world picture where he claims that DBs are scared. He doesn't kiss his biceps and he doesn't mock the other QB by pulling a Superman pose.
For that, the contract RW gets will be much more rewarding to the player and the fans will want him to be locked up here for his entire career. If he were to get one with CKDB wording, the fans would be pissed that the team did him like that.
RW is a Super Bowl winner in year 2, he wants nothing more than the team to win. I don't think he is going to give a big discount, but I would not be surprised to see him get a very long contract that is structured to be cap friendly to the team and his long term financial stability.
Whatever it is, it will be worth it and the FO knows that he is not a risk at any level.
loafoftatupu wrote:I remember the comment of how Seahawk fans would react if Wilson had the same deal.
That isn't even possible. While pleased that the contract wasn't completely ridiculous, the same contract applied to Wilson means far more value.
Unlike CKDB, Wilson didn't choke the biggest game of the year away. In fact, Wilson made clutch plays in that game after an initial miscue that didn't phase him the least. You won't find a game where fans are ripping Wilson for blowing it, he had a stinker in week 16, but he didn't choke the game that really didn't matter anyways. In the Super Bowl he posted a ridiculous rating and admirable stat line. In grind time he was perfect, not a single error in the biggest game of his life.
In his Super Bowl, CKDB took sacks, threw a pick and failed in the clutch. Wilson is the anti-Kaep. He doesn't show anything but poise, doesn't run off the field pouting when he loses, doesn't throw multi pick games and never gives the opponent fuel or draw a fantasy world picture where he claims that DBs are scared. He doesn't kiss his biceps and he doesn't mock the other QB by pulling a Superman pose.
For that, the contract RW gets will be much more rewarding to the player and the fans will want him to be locked up here for his entire career. If he were to get one with CKDB wording, the fans would be pissed that the team did him like that.
RW is a Super Bowl winner in year 2, he wants nothing more than the team to win. I don't think he is going to give a big discount, but I would not be surprised to see him get a very long contract that is structured to be cap friendly to the team and his long term financial stability.
Whatever it is, it will be worth it and the FO knows that he is not a risk at any level.
SacHawk2.0 wrote:I <3 Box
loafoftatupu wrote:I remember the comment of how Seahawk fans would react if Wilson had the same deal.
That isn't even possible. While pleased that the contract wasn't completely ridiculous, the same contract applied to Wilson means far more value.
Unlike CKDB, Wilson didn't choke the biggest game of the year away. In fact, Wilson made clutch plays in that game after an initial miscue that didn't phase him the least. You won't find a game where fans are ripping Wilson for blowing it, he had a stinker in week 16, but he didn't choke the game that really didn't matter anyways. In the Super Bowl he posted a ridiculous rating and admirable stat line. In grind time he was perfect, not a single error in the biggest game of his life.
In his Super Bowl, CKDB took sacks, threw a pick and failed in the clutch. Wilson is the anti-Kaep. He doesn't show anything but poise, doesn't run off the field pouting when he loses, doesn't throw multi pick games and never gives the opponent fuel or draw a fantasy world picture where he claims that DBs are scared. He doesn't kiss his biceps and he doesn't mock the other QB by pulling a Superman pose.
For that, the contract RW gets will be much more rewarding to the player and the fans will want him to be locked up here for his entire career. If he were to get one with CKDB wording, the fans would be pissed that the team did him like that.
RW is a Super Bowl winner in year 2, he wants nothing more than the team to win. I don't think he is going to give a big discount, but I would not be surprised to see him get a very long contract that is structured to be cap friendly to the team and his long term financial stability.
Whatever it is, it will be worth it and the FO knows that he is not a risk at any level.
Marvin49 wrote:loafoftatupu wrote:I remember the comment of how Seahawk fans would react if Wilson had the same deal.
That isn't even possible. While pleased that the contract wasn't completely ridiculous, the same contract applied to Wilson means far more value.
Unlike CKDB, Wilson didn't choke the biggest game of the year away. In fact, Wilson made clutch plays in that game after an initial miscue that didn't phase him the least. You won't find a game where fans are ripping Wilson for blowing it, he had a stinker in week 16, but he didn't choke the game that really didn't matter anyways. In the Super Bowl he posted a ridiculous rating and admirable stat line. In grind time he was perfect, not a single error in the biggest game of his life.
In his Super Bowl, CKDB took sacks, threw a pick and failed in the clutch. Wilson is the anti-Kaep. He doesn't show anything but poise, doesn't run off the field pouting when he loses, doesn't throw multi pick games and never gives the opponent fuel or draw a fantasy world picture where he claims that DBs are scared. He doesn't kiss his biceps and he doesn't mock the other QB by pulling a Superman pose.
For that, the contract RW gets will be much more rewarding to the player and the fans will want him to be locked up here for his entire career. If he were to get one with CKDB wording, the fans would be pissed that the team did him like that.
RW is a Super Bowl winner in year 2, he wants nothing more than the team to win. I don't think he is going to give a big discount, but I would not be surprised to see him get a very long contract that is structured to be cap friendly to the team and his long term financial stability.
Whatever it is, it will be worth it and the FO knows that he is not a risk at any level.
For the record, I happen to agree with you that Wilson won't sign a contact like Kaps. That was never my point. The point was always about the negative spin given to the 49ers, Kap and his agent that IMO would be given an entirely different spin had it been signed by Wilson.
The contract is similar in structure to the contracts the 49ers have ALL their players sign to protect themselves from injury, poor performance, etc. what makes this contract is that they have never appeared in a QBs contract and have never been on this scale. Kaepernick is betting on himself and the 49ers are giving him money they didn't need to. Signing him now saves them tons down the road, but their clear assumption is that he will be here down the road. Otherwise they could have let h play out his contract and the franchised him. Twice if need be and it would still have been cheaper.
The Seahawks haven't traditionally signed players to these types of contracts, so I wholeheartedly agree that Seatte won't. That was never the pint of the question. The question was about the lens you look through and hypocracy.
One last thing about helping the team...if Kap signed a contract like this, it's tough for an agent to say his guy shouldn't when the highest payed player on the team accepted that structure.
loafoftatupu wrote:Marvin49 wrote:loafoftatupu wrote:I remember the comment of how Seahawk fans would react if Wilson had the same deal.
That isn't even possible. While pleased that the contract wasn't completely ridiculous, the same contract applied to Wilson means far more value.
Unlike CKDB, Wilson didn't choke the biggest game of the year away. In fact, Wilson made clutch plays in that game after an initial miscue that didn't phase him the least. You won't find a game where fans are ripping Wilson for blowing it, he had a stinker in week 16, but he didn't choke the game that really didn't matter anyways. In the Super Bowl he posted a ridiculous rating and admirable stat line. In grind time he was perfect, not a single error in the biggest game of his life.
In his Super Bowl, CKDB took sacks, threw a pick and failed in the clutch. Wilson is the anti-Kaep. He doesn't show anything but poise, doesn't run off the field pouting when he loses, doesn't throw multi pick games and never gives the opponent fuel or draw a fantasy world picture where he claims that DBs are scared. He doesn't kiss his biceps and he doesn't mock the other QB by pulling a Superman pose.
For that, the contract RW gets will be much more rewarding to the player and the fans will want him to be locked up here for his entire career. If he were to get one with CKDB wording, the fans would be pissed that the team did him like that.
RW is a Super Bowl winner in year 2, he wants nothing more than the team to win. I don't think he is going to give a big discount, but I would not be surprised to see him get a very long contract that is structured to be cap friendly to the team and his long term financial stability.
Whatever it is, it will be worth it and the FO knows that he is not a risk at any level.
For the record, I happen to agree with you that Wilson won't sign a contact like Kaps. That was never my point. The point was always about the negative spin given to the 49ers, Kap and his agent that IMO would be given an entirely different spin had it been signed by Wilson.
The contract is similar in structure to the contracts the 49ers have ALL their players sign to protect themselves from injury, poor performance, etc. what makes this contract is that they have never appeared in a QBs contract and have never been on this scale. Kaepernick is betting on himself and the 49ers are giving him money they didn't need to. Signing him now saves them tons down the road, but their clear assumption is that he will be here down the road. Otherwise they could have let h play out his contract and the franchised him. Twice if need be and it would still have been cheaper.
The Seahawks haven't traditionally signed players to these types of contracts, so I wholeheartedly agree that Seatte won't. That was never the pint of the question. The question was about the lens you look through and hypocracy.
One last thing about helping the team...if Kap signed a contract like this, it's tough for an agent to say his guy shouldn't when the highest payed player on the team accepted that structure.
Wait a minute...
Hypocrisy?
How could it be hypocrisy if the situation you presented isn't even a potential occurrence?
You are presenting a hypothetical situation Marvin, unless Wilson actually gets a similarly worded contract there just isn't anything to be hypocritical about Bro.
No one can visualize it.
And since when does a Niner fan avoid hypocrisy? Hypocrisy is claiming expectations of being "above reproach" then allowing a beer bottle smashing teammate to play and a convicted felon to practice. Now THAT is hypocrisy.
Giedi wrote:loafoftatupu wrote:Marvin49 wrote:loafoftatupu wrote:I remember the comment of how Seahawk fans would react if Wilson had the same deal.
That isn't even possible. While pleased that the contract wasn't completely ridiculous, the same contract applied to Wilson means far more value.
Unlike CKDB, Wilson didn't choke the biggest game of the year away. In fact, Wilson made clutch plays in that game after an initial miscue that didn't phase him the least. You won't find a game where fans are ripping Wilson for blowing it, he had a stinker in week 16, but he didn't choke the game that really didn't matter anyways. In the Super Bowl he posted a ridiculous rating and admirable stat line. In grind time he was perfect, not a single error in the biggest game of his life.
In his Super Bowl, CKDB took sacks, threw a pick and failed in the clutch. Wilson is the anti-Kaep. He doesn't show anything but poise, doesn't run off the field pouting when he loses, doesn't throw multi pick games and never gives the opponent fuel or draw a fantasy world picture where he claims that DBs are scared. He doesn't kiss his biceps and he doesn't mock the other QB by pulling a Superman pose.
For that, the contract RW gets will be much more rewarding to the player and the fans will want him to be locked up here for his entire career. If he were to get one with CKDB wording, the fans would be pissed that the team did him like that.
RW is a Super Bowl winner in year 2, he wants nothing more than the team to win. I don't think he is going to give a big discount, but I would not be surprised to see him get a very long contract that is structured to be cap friendly to the team and his long term financial stability.
Whatever it is, it will be worth it and the FO knows that he is not a risk at any level.
For the record, I happen to agree with you that Wilson won't sign a contact like Kaps. That was never my point. The point was always about the negative spin given to the 49ers, Kap and his agent that IMO would be given an entirely different spin had it been signed by Wilson.
The contract is similar in structure to the contracts the 49ers have ALL their players sign to protect themselves from injury, poor performance, etc. what makes this contract is that they have never appeared in a QBs contract and have never been on this scale. Kaepernick is betting on himself and the 49ers are giving him money they didn't need to. Signing him now saves them tons down the road, but their clear assumption is that he will be here down the road. Otherwise they could have let h play out his contract and the franchised him. Twice if need be and it would still have been cheaper.
The Seahawks haven't traditionally signed players to these types of contracts, so I wholeheartedly agree that Seatte won't. That was never the pint of the question. The question was about the lens you look through and hypocracy.
One last thing about helping the team...if Kap signed a contract like this, it's tough for an agent to say his guy shouldn't when the highest payed player on the team accepted that structure.
Wait a minute...
Hypocrisy?
How could it be hypocrisy if the situation you presented isn't even a potential occurrence?
You are presenting a hypothetical situation Marvin, unless Wilson actually gets a similarly worded contract there just isn't anything to be hypocritical about Bro.
No one can visualize it.
And since when does a Niner fan avoid hypocrisy? Hypocrisy is claiming expectations of being "above reproach" then allowing a beer bottle smashing teammate to play and a convicted felon to practice. Now THAT is hypocrisy.
Loafo my buddie! Great to see you around the 49er boards recently. I'm looking forward to seeing your team lock up your very talented QB sometime next year. Most important thing about the Kaepernick contract is that it was done and we know Colin will be dueling with Russell for the next 6 plus years. I'm pretty sure you will also lock up wilson in a very lucrative contract very similar - if not even more money - than what Kaepernick got. I look forward to seeing your team and Russell play the 49ers these next couple of years. These two teams are the class of the NFL and unfortunately so is there salaries.
Fudwamper wrote:Popeyejones wrote:Fudwamper wrote:I feel sorry for Kap.
LOL at the concern trolling.
Your argument is basically that:
A) You are an outlier in that unlike most others you weren't expecting him to sign for a deal that, depending on his play, is lower than recently signed second-tier quarterbacks (e.g. Cutler, Flacco, Stafford, etc.; basically if he plays like these guys he'll get paid less than them).
No it is interesting to me to see a considered top 10 quarterback take a very strange very high risk contract that has him paying insurance for the 49ers.
B) You don't understand how taking a MUCH lower guaranteed signing bonus than expected frees up room for more re-signings from today through the next league year.
But it doesn't. why don't you see that? He could have taken less base salary more signing bonus/guaranteed money and still came out the same numbers There really is nothing in the contract that helps the team with singing other players. His contract is a 3 year tryout, that he takes all the risk. That is the part that I can't understand from an outside view. Kapernick is taking all the risk. The 49ers are taking none. That's just bad advice negotiating on the agents part.
C) You don't understand how including de-escalators if they don't go to the SB or he isn't an All-Pro frees up money to bring in more firepower.
Having escalators is common contract language, what is significant is the De-esculators and what they are. so again this is nothing grand, it is telling of the FO.
The first is an opinion, and the later two are just strange claims to make.
Also, it's worth saying that you rejecting an explanation is not the same thing as one not being offered, which is what happened above.
You are correct but not answering the question is not the same, see point b again.
What makes this contract unique, is it does not free up any extra money in a unique way, or helps to resign players in a friendly way, it is that a top 10 QB is taking a very unfriendly contract. This contract places all the risk on the player. The organization is getting all benefits. The player is even paying the insurance after taxes for the organization if he gets hurt So that guaranteed money if he gets hurt the player is actually paying for.
Sports Hernia wrote:
PS. for the record I don't have an account over there, just read it for the "looney tunes style" entertainment value.
loafoftatupu wrote:I remember the comment of how Seahawk fans would react if Wilson had the same deal.
That isn't even possible. While pleased that the contract wasn't completely ridiculous, the same contract applied to Wilson means far more value.
Unlike CKDB, Wilson didn't choke the biggest game of the year away. In fact, Wilson made clutch plays in that game after an initial miscue that didn't phase him the least. You won't find a game where fans are ripping Wilson for blowing it, he had a stinker in week 16, but he didn't choke the game that really didn't matter anyways. In the Super Bowl he posted a ridiculous rating and admirable stat line. In grind time he was perfect, not a single error in the biggest game of his life.
In his Super Bowl, CKDB took sacks, threw a pick and failed in the clutch. Wilson is the anti-Kaep. He doesn't show anything but poise, doesn't run off the field pouting when he loses, doesn't throw multi pick games and never gives the opponent fuel or draw a fantasy world picture where he claims that DBs are scared. He doesn't kiss his biceps and he doesn't mock the other QB by pulling a Superman pose.
For that, the contract RW gets will be much more rewarding to the player and the fans will want him to be locked up here for his entire career. If he were to get one with CKDB wording, the fans would be pissed that the team did him like that.
RW is a Super Bowl winner in year 2, he wants nothing more than the team to win. I don't think he is going to give a big discount, but I would not be surprised to see him get a very long contract that is structured to be cap friendly to the team and his long term financial stability.
Whatever it is, it will be worth it and the FO knows that he is not a risk at any level.
Sourdough #49 wrote:Sports Hernia wrote:
PS. for the record I don't have an account over there, just read it for the "looney tunes style" entertainment value.
Feeling a bit defensive?
Sports Hernia wrote:]
Do you have multiple personalities? I ask this because your viciousness towards anything Seattle on the webzone seems to be off the charts compared to this post. I'm not trying to start anything over here as I hope you can be civil here, just curious.
PS. for the record I don't have an account over there, just read it for the "looney toons style" entertainment value.
loafoftatupu wrote:Sports Hernia wrote:]
Do you have multiple personalities? I ask this because your viciousness towards anything Seattle on the webzone seems to be off the charts compared to this post. I'm not trying to start anything over here as I hope you can be civil here, just curious.
PS. for the record I don't have an account over there, just read it for the "looney toons style" entertainment value.
Giedi has been taking lessons from me for some time. He behaves himself when here, as I do on the Niner boards, but lets it out at home. For different reasons though. No smack shack at the Niner board, otherwise I would let it fly.
It isn't like Marvin, who has to share feelings at every turn. Those guys talk about minutiae like cheating and PEDs, I might respond with one fact based comment and then drop it, knowing it is pointless. Giedi pretty much rolls the same way, but when he is off his meds he lives in another dimension or frequency. Kind of like the Reptilian Society.
I like the guy, he is just bat-shit crazy.
loafoftatupu wrote:Marvin49 wrote:loafoftatupu wrote:I remember the comment of how Seahawk fans would react if Wilson had the same deal.
That isn't even possible. While pleased that the contract wasn't completely ridiculous, the same contract applied to Wilson means far more value.
Unlike CKDB, Wilson didn't choke the biggest game of the year away. In fact, Wilson made clutch plays in that game after an initial miscue that didn't phase him the least. You won't find a game where fans are ripping Wilson for blowing it, he had a stinker in week 16, but he didn't choke the game that really didn't matter anyways. In the Super Bowl he posted a ridiculous rating and admirable stat line. In grind time he was perfect, not a single error in the biggest game of his life.
In his Super Bowl, CKDB took sacks, threw a pick and failed in the clutch. Wilson is the anti-Kaep. He doesn't show anything but poise, doesn't run off the field pouting when he loses, doesn't throw multi pick games and never gives the opponent fuel or draw a fantasy world picture where he claims that DBs are scared. He doesn't kiss his biceps and he doesn't mock the other QB by pulling a Superman pose.
For that, the contract RW gets will be much more rewarding to the player and the fans will want him to be locked up here for his entire career. If he were to get one with CKDB wording, the fans would be pissed that the team did him like that.
RW is a Super Bowl winner in year 2, he wants nothing more than the team to win. I don't think he is going to give a big discount, but I would not be surprised to see him get a very long contract that is structured to be cap friendly to the team and his long term financial stability.
Whatever it is, it will be worth it and the FO knows that he is not a risk at any level.
For the record, I happen to agree with you that Wilson won't sign a contact like Kaps. That was never my point. The point was always about the negative spin given to the 49ers, Kap and his agent that IMO would be given an entirely different spin had it been signed by Wilson.
The contract is similar in structure to the contracts the 49ers have ALL their players sign to protect themselves from injury, poor performance, etc. what makes this contract is that they have never appeared in a QBs contract and have never been on this scale. Kaepernick is betting on himself and the 49ers are giving him money they didn't need to. Signing him now saves them tons down the road, but their clear assumption is that he will be here down the road. Otherwise they could have let h play out his contract and the franchised him. Twice if need be and it would still have been cheaper.
The Seahawks haven't traditionally signed players to these types of contracts, so I wholeheartedly agree that Seatte won't. That was never the pint of the question. The question was about the lens you look through and hypocracy.
One last thing about helping the team...if Kap signed a contract like this, it's tough for an agent to say his guy shouldn't when the highest payed player on the team accepted that structure.
Wait a minute...
Hypocrisy?
How could it be hypocrisy if the situation you presented isn't even a potential occurrence?
You are presenting a hypothetical situation Marvin, unless Wilson actually gets a similarly worded contract there just isn't anything to be hypocritical about Bro.
No one can visualize it.
And since when does a Niner fan avoid hypocrisy? Hypocrisy is claiming expectations of being "above reproach" then allowing a beer bottle smashing teammate to play and a convicted felon to practice. Now THAT is hypocrisy.
loafoftatupu wrote:Sports Hernia wrote:]
Do you have multiple personalities? I ask this because your viciousness towards anything Seattle on the webzone seems to be off the charts compared to this post. I'm not trying to start anything over here as I hope you can be civil here, just curious.
PS. for the record I don't have an account over there, just read it for the "looney toons style" entertainment value.
Giedi has been taking lessons from me for some time. He behaves himself when here, as I do on the Niner boards, but lets it out at home. For different reasons though. No smack shack at the Niner board, otherwise I would let it fly.
It isn't like Marvin, who has to share feelings at every turn. Those guys talk about minutiae like cheating and PEDs, I might respond with one fact based comment and then drop it, knowing it is pointless. Giedi pretty much rolls the same way, but when he is off his meds he lives in another dimension or frequency. Kind of like the Reptilian Society.
I like the guy, he is just bat-shit crazy.
Popeyejones wrote:Fudwamper wrote:Popeyejones wrote:Fudwamper wrote:I feel sorry for Kap.
LOL at the concern trolling.
Your argument is basically that:
A) You are an outlier in that unlike most others you weren't expecting him to sign for a deal that, depending on his play, is lower than recently signed second-tier quarterbacks (e.g. Cutler, Flacco, Stafford, etc.; basically if he plays like these guys he'll get paid less than them).
No it is interesting to me to see a considered top 10 quarterback take a very strange very high risk contract that has him paying insurance for the 49ers.
B) You don't understand how taking a MUCH lower guaranteed signing bonus than expected frees up room for more re-signings from today through the next league year.
But it doesn't. why don't you see that? He could have taken less base salary more signing bonus/guaranteed money and still came out the same numbers There really is nothing in the contract that helps the team with singing other players. His contract is a 3 year tryout, that he takes all the risk. That is the part that I can't understand from an outside view. Kapernick is taking all the risk. The 49ers are taking none. That's just bad advice negotiating on the agents part.
C) You don't understand how including de-escalators if they don't go to the SB or he isn't an All-Pro frees up money to bring in more firepower.
Having escalators is common contract language, what is significant is the De-esculators and what they are. so again this is nothing grand, it is telling of the FO.
The first is an opinion, and the later two are just strange claims to make.
Also, it's worth saying that you rejecting an explanation is not the same thing as one not being offered, which is what happened above.
You are correct but not answering the question is not the same, see point b again.
What makes this contract unique, is it does not free up any extra money in a unique way, or helps to resign players in a friendly way, it is that a top 10 QB is taking a very unfriendly contract. This contract places all the risk on the player. The organization is getting all benefits. The player is even paying the insurance after taxes for the organization if he gets hurt So that guaranteed money if he gets hurt the player is actually paying for.
I think you're probably going to have decide if it is unique or not to include de-escalators if he's not a top 4 QB in the league. You acknowledge that it is, and then later conclude that it isn't in order to maintain your stance that there's nothing unique about the contract and the flexibility it gives the team. It is simple: If Kap isn't an all-pro or the 9ers don't reach the Super Bowl thenn his contract automatically decreases which frees up more cap room to bring in more firepower. It's an atypical thing to put in a contract (which you acknowledge before you deny), and it inarguably helps the team pay more for more players in the event that they need them. Not to be a jerk, but I really don't understand what's complicated about this.
Likewise, regarding the abonormally low signing bonus, you are at the same time arguing that it places risk on the player but does not give the team more flexibility. I'm sure you can see the incongruity here. Taking a lower signing bonus gives the team more flexibility because the money is not guaranteed. A signing bonus is a signing bonus is a signing bonus. Salary can be adjusted and moved around from year to year to sign and resign players as need be (a la what the Patriots do with Tom Brady), a signing bonus cannot. This too is not that complicated.
If you insist on arguing that the 9ers are jerks or Kaepernick is an idiot for the contract they mutually agreed on that's fine, but arguing in addition that it does not give the team more flexibility in re-signing or bringing in other players simply betrays basic logic.
Marvin49 wrote:loafoftatupu wrote:Sports Hernia wrote:]
Do you have multiple personalities? I ask this because your viciousness towards anything Seattle on the webzone seems to be off the charts compared to this post. I'm not trying to start anything over here as I hope you can be civil here, just curious.
PS. for the record I don't have an account over there, just read it for the "looney toons style" entertainment value.
Giedi has been taking lessons from me for some time. He behaves himself when here, as I do on the Niner boards, but lets it out at home. For different reasons though. No smack shack at the Niner board, otherwise I would let it fly.
It isn't like Marvin, who has to share feelings at every turn. Those guys talk about minutiae like cheating and PEDs, I might respond with one fact based comment and then drop it, knowing it is pointless. Giedi pretty much rolls the same way, but when he is off his meds he lives in another dimension or frequency. Kind of like the Reptilian Society.
I like the guy, he is just bat-shit crazy.
Guilty.
loafoftatupu wrote:Marvin49 wrote:loafoftatupu wrote:Sports Hernia wrote:]
Do you have multiple personalities? I ask this because your viciousness towards anything Seattle on the webzone seems to be off the charts compared to this post. I'm not trying to start anything over here as I hope you can be civil here, just curious.
PS. for the record I don't have an account over there, just read it for the "looney toons style" entertainment value.
Giedi has been taking lessons from me for some time. He behaves himself when here, as I do on the Niner boards, but lets it out at home. For different reasons though. No smack shack at the Niner board, otherwise I would let it fly.
It isn't like Marvin, who has to share feelings at every turn. Those guys talk about minutiae like cheating and PEDs, I might respond with one fact based comment and then drop it, knowing it is pointless. Giedi pretty much rolls the same way, but when he is off his meds he lives in another dimension or frequency. Kind of like the Reptilian Society.
I like the guy, he is just bat-shit crazy.
Guilty.
Ya think?
Like you, my wife is prone to sharing her feelings with descriptive dialog too. I tolerate it because she has specific talents that I appreciate to go with that amazing body blessed with melons by the gods.
I am just guessing you don't bring that to the table. So go hug it out on the DenialZone Bro. We will wait for you. I promise.
It is currently Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:55 am