Where would the Raiders go?

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Re: Where would the Raiders go?
Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:49 pm
  • They should build a stadium in LA and have the SB and national champ game there every year with no team that calls it home.
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Re: Where would the Raiders go?
Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:37 pm
  • Interesting..... wouldn't San Diego be a better choice though?
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Re: Where would the Raiders go?
Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:17 pm
  • RiverDog wrote:
    TeamoftheCentury wrote:
    RiverDog wrote:Neutral site games are happening in London because it's an untapped market. The NFL is already in every major market in the country except LA, so there's no need to advertise the game here in the states.


    So, you think there's no point in continuing to promote their product? Sounds like we look at the same mountain from different sides on this topic. Ah well.

    But, you haven't yet commented on the pros and cons, challenges, obstacles, benefits, etc. of the Raiders taking up residence on Alcatraz? :snack:


    Yea, I think the US market is pretty much tapped out. The NFL is already far and away the most popular sport in the nation as far as overall interest goes, at least once they get done -BLEEEEEEP- (you might want to keep it clean, this is a PG forum) the sport to make it more acceptable to women. There's not much more juice that can be squeezed out of the orange.

    You didn't actually answer the question I asked. I asked if the NFL will cease to promote their product. I'll answer that for you: No, they will not. I can't imagine you disagree there. The NFL will most certainly continue to cultivate it's fans. That's just good business. That's all I'm saying, man. :Dunno:

    As far as the NFL being the most popular sport... yes, I generally agree. Actually, though, it's more precisely American Football - not merely the NFL (though, of course, it's driving the popularity.) Consider for 5 seconds where I live... in one of the 3 states where it is most popular. My sons are heavily involved so it's a big part of our family. So, you don't need to try to convince me. But, in terms of the most popular spectator sport... that's NASCAR. Though they are not necessarily competing for fans, they still continue to cultivate fans of their product no matter how popular it is right now.
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Re: Where would the Raiders go?
Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:39 pm
  • TeamoftheCentury wrote:
    RiverDog wrote:
    TeamoftheCentury wrote:
    RiverDog wrote:Neutral site games are happening in London because it's an untapped market. The NFL is already in every major market in the country except LA, so there's no need to advertise the game here in the states.


    So, you think there's no point in continuing to promote their product? Sounds like we look at the same mountain from different sides on this topic. Ah well.

    But, you haven't yet commented on the pros and cons, challenges, obstacles, benefits, etc. of the Raiders taking up residence on Alcatraz? :snack:


    Yea, I think the US market is pretty much tapped out. The NFL is already far and away the most popular sport in the nation as far as overall interest goes, at least once they get done -BLEEEEEEP- (you might want to keep it clean, this is a PG forum) the sport to make it more acceptable to women. There's not much more juice that can be squeezed out of the orange.

    You didn't actually answer the question I asked. I asked if the NFL will cease to promote their product. I'll answer that for you: No, they will not. I can't imagine you disagree there. The NFL will most certainly continue to cultivate it's fans. That's just good business. That's all I'm saying, man. :Dunno:

    As far as the NFL being the most popular sport... yes, I generally agree. Actually, though, it's more precisely American Football - not merely the NFL (though, of course, it's driving the popularity.) Consider for 5 seconds where I live... in one of the 3 states where it is most popular. My sons are heavily involved so it's a big part of our family. So, you don't need to try to convince me. But, in terms of the most popular spectator sport... that's NASCAR. Though they are not necessarily competing for fans, they still continue to cultivate fans of their product no matter how popular it is right now.


    I'm only speaking in terms of money. The NFL outpaces NASCAR, college football, MLB, and everyone else, in terms of revenue vs. expenditures.

    The NFL does have a few, limited demographical markets within the US that they have not fully exploited, such as females, Hispanics, and Asians. But as far as the geographical markets go, the markets that determine whether or not the league puts a franchise or not, the US market, except for LA, is pretty much tapped out. In other words, putting a franchise in Portland, OR is not going to result in a wider television market for the league. The people in Portland still watch NFL football whether they have a team or not.
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Re: Where would the Raiders go?
Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:09 pm
  • RiverDog wrote:I'm only speaking in terms of money. The NFL outpaces NASCAR, college football, MLB, and everyone else, in terms of revenue vs. expenditures.

    The NFL does have a few, limited demographical markets within the US that they have not fully exploited, such as females, Hispanics, and Asians. But as far as the geographical markets go, the markets that determine whether or not the league puts a franchise or not, the US market, except for LA, is pretty much tapped out. In other words, putting a franchise in Portland, OR is not going to result in a wider television market for the league. The people in Portland still watch NFL football whether they have a team or not.


    Well, perhaps this back and forth is about tapped out because I don't think anyone else cares to read us talking about not altogether different things (but which seemed to go down an extraneous rabbit trail. And, I think when we start getting pop up notices that we can only have 4 quotations - that's our cue that it's gone far enough.)
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Re: Where would the Raiders go?
Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:34 am
  • TeamoftheCentury wrote:
    RiverDog wrote:I'm only speaking in terms of money. The NFL outpaces NASCAR, college football, MLB, and everyone else, in terms of revenue vs. expenditures.

    The NFL does have a few, limited demographical markets within the US that they have not fully exploited, such as females, Hispanics, and Asians. But as far as the geographical markets go, the markets that determine whether or not the league puts a franchise or not, the US market, except for LA, is pretty much tapped out. In other words, putting a franchise in Portland, OR is not going to result in a wider television market for the league. The people in Portland still watch NFL football whether they have a team or not.


    Well, perhaps this back and forth is about tapped out because I don't think anyone else cares to read us talking about not altogether different things (but which seemed to go down an extraneous rabbit trail. And, I think when we start getting pop up notices that we can only have 4 quotations - that's our cue that it's gone far enough.)


    LOL!

    But it's the offseason. What else are we going to talk about?
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Re: Where would the Raiders go?
Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:59 am
  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    TeamoftheCentury wrote:Could they re-construct Alcatraz into a Football Venue?

    Not to derail making fun of 'em, but I think having an NFL stadium on Alcatraz would actually be pretty damned awesome.


    It would look cool....but talk about a parking nightmare....
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Re: Where would the Raiders go?
Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:12 am
  • hawknation2014 wrote:They should build a stadium in SF, and rename themselves the SF Raiders, like the Warriors are planning to do. That would really stick it to the Santa Clara Niners.


    LOL.

    Well...

    1) Raider fans would be killing in the streets.
    2) Niner fans would be mildy annoyed.
    3) The Warriors were in SF to begin with and are the Bay Areas ONLY Basketball team. Raiders and Niners fans hate each other. Giants and A's fans hate each other. We all kinda unite tho on the Warriors and Sharks. There is a reason they never became the Oakland Warriors and were called Golden State.
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Re: Where would the Raiders go?
Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:16 pm
  • I think if we wait long enough there will be enough sewage backup in O.Co to flush the Raiders and that stadium into the Oakland Bay.
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Re: Where would the Raiders go?
Mon May 05, 2014 5:11 pm
  • hawknation2014 wrote:USC has a deal in place to renovate the Coliseum with $150 million. Their AD recently floated the idea of charging $4,000 per seat to each season-ticket holder to help pay for the renovations.

    That PSL idea was a question in a survey sent out to season ticket holders. As far as I can tell, it went over like a lead balloon.
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Re: Where would the Raiders go?
Tue May 06, 2014 12:55 am
  • Marvin49 wrote:
    hawknation2014 wrote:They should build a stadium in SF, and rename themselves the SF Raiders, like the Warriors are planning to do. That would really stick it to the Santa Clara Niners.


    LOL.

    Well...

    1) Raider fans would be killing in the streets.
    2) Niner fans would be mildy annoyed.
    3) The Warriors were in SF to begin with and are the Bay Areas ONLY Basketball team. Raiders and Niners fans hate each other. Giants and A's fans hate each other. We all kinda unite tho on the Warriors and Sharks. There is a reason they never became the Oakland Warriors and were called Golden State.


    Marvin no like the Kings?! lol
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Re: Where would the Raiders go?
Tue May 06, 2014 3:47 am
  • RiverDog wrote:NFL Europe failed miserably, yet the owners are insistent in their claim that people in that part of the world are hungry for American football. It's a curiosity with those folks over there, not bred into them by participation in the high schools and colleges like we have here in the States. No way will they buy all the hats and jerseys in the qualities we do, or watch games to the tune of 9-12 hours a week like we do.


    NFL Europe "failed miserably" because it was essentially practice squad players squaring off against practice squad players - people are interested in watching sports at the elite level - even then attendance averaged around 15-25,000 for most teams, impressive considering the standard on display. I grew up in Glasgow and the Scottish claymores averaged between 10-15,000 per game. That doesn't sound like much, but when you consider that made them a top 5 supported sports club in Scotland - for essentially Arena League football, you can imagine that the market for an elite team facing elite teams on a week by week basis would be significantly greater - and that's talking about Glasgow, a city whose metropolitan population is about a third of Seattle's - compare that to London which is over 3 times the size and you can imagine that there won't be any trouble filling a stadium (as there hasn't been)

    The main issue with the whole idea though is that most existing NFL fans are fans of an established team (I live in London now, but certainly wouldn't support a London based team), however, the team could draw on the fact that many fans would be attracted to watching the visiting team play - it would mean the team has probably the worst "home advantage" in the league, but this would be offset somewhat by the fact that the actual location would give a far greater advantage over the actual support.
    It would take at least 5 years before you started to see a core group of fans for the local team to really get going though I reckon
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Re: Where would the Raiders go?
Tue May 06, 2014 8:16 am
  • themunn wrote:
    RiverDog wrote:NFL Europe failed miserably, yet the owners are insistent in their claim that people in that part of the world are hungry for American football. It's a curiosity with those folks over there, not bred into them by participation in the high schools and colleges like we have here in the States. No way will they buy all the hats and jerseys in the qualities we do, or watch games to the tune of 9-12 hours a week like we do.


    NFL Europe "failed miserably" because it was essentially practice squad players squaring off against practice squad players - people are interested in watching sports at the elite level - even then attendance averaged around 15-25,000 for most teams, impressive considering the standard on display. I grew up in Glasgow and the Scottish claymores averaged between 10-15,000 per game. That doesn't sound like much, but when you consider that made them a top 5 supported sports club in Scotland - for essentially Arena League football, you can imagine that the market for an elite team facing elite teams on a week by week basis would be significantly greater - and that's talking about Glasgow, a city whose metropolitan population is about a third of Seattle's - compare that to London which is over 3 times the size and you can imagine that there won't be any trouble filling a stadium (as there hasn't been)

    The main issue with the whole idea though is that most existing NFL fans are fans of an established team (I live in London now, but certainly wouldn't support a London based team), however, the team could draw on the fact that many fans would be attracted to watching the visiting team play - it would mean the team has probably the worst "home advantage" in the league, but this would be offset somewhat by the fact that the actual location would give a far greater advantage over the actual support.
    It would take at least 5 years before you started to see a core group of fans for the local team to really get going though I reckon


    I'm not too impressed. How well do you think that a minor league football team would do in a place like Boise, Missoula, or Topeka, little po-dunk towns compared to a major metro area like Glasgow with a metro area of 1.75M, if there was a prospect of some day landing an NFL team if they draw well?

    IMO if the NFL wants to build a fan base, they need to do it from the grass roots level first, and since it's not practical to start a college league or some sort of semi pro club league, minor league football is the only way they can achieve that goal. The only way they're going to make NFL football work in Europe is to get enough viable franchises to where they can have their own division, and that means 4-6 teams, not one team where you have to travel across the pond so often.

    This is not about satisfying the customer demands of football starved fans in Europe. It's about money, money for the owners. They are no different than a Fortune 500 company expanding into a new market in order to increase their stock value or increase their dividends. This will not provide their base supporters, ie season ticket holders and others that support their team, with a better product or a lower price.
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Re: Where would the Raiders go?
Fri May 16, 2014 11:12 am
  • Given the fact that the NFL wants to expand into Mexico, and the fact that there are a lot of hispanic raider fans, I could actually see them going to Mexico. I don't know how likely or profitable it would be from a financial standpoint, but the fanbase would be there for sure.
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Re: Where would the Raiders go?
Fri May 16, 2014 11:08 pm
  • Honolulu?
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Re: Where would the Raiders go?
Mon May 19, 2014 4:12 pm
  • themunn wrote:
    RiverDog wrote:NFL Europe failed miserably, yet the owners are insistent in their claim that people in that part of the world are hungry for American football. It's a curiosity with those folks over there, not bred into them by participation in the high schools and colleges like we have here in the States. No way will they buy all the hats and jerseys in the qualities we do, or watch games to the tune of 9-12 hours a week like we do.


    NFL Europe "failed miserably" because it was essentially practice squad players squaring off against practice squad players - people are interested in watching sports at the elite level - even then attendance averaged around 15-25,000 for most teams, impressive considering the standard on display. I grew up in Glasgow and the Scottish claymores averaged between 10-15,000 per game. That doesn't sound like much, but when you consider that made them a top 5 supported sports club in Scotland - for essentially Arena League football, you can imagine that the market for an elite team facing elite teams on a week by week basis would be significantly greater - and that's talking about Glasgow, a city whose metropolitan population is about a third of Seattle's - compare that to London which is over 3 times the size and you can imagine that there won't be any trouble filling a stadium (as there hasn't been)

    I completely agree with you :)
    The main issue with the whole idea though is that most existing NFL fans are fans of an established team (I live in London now, but certainly wouldn't support a London based team), however, the team could draw on the fact that many fans would be attracted to watching the visiting team play - it would mean the team has probably the worst "home advantage" in the league, but this would be offset somewhat by the fact that the actual location would give a far greater advantage over the actual support.
    It would take at least 5 years before you started to see a core group of fans for the local team to really get going though I reckon
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Re: Where would the Raiders go?
Wed May 21, 2014 6:17 am
  • Giblien wrote:Given the fact that the NFL wants to expand into Mexico, and the fact that there are a lot of hispanic raider fans, I could actually see them going to Mexico. I don't know how likely or profitable it would be from a financial standpoint, but the fanbase would be there for sure.


    Mexico is a third world country in the midst of one of the ugliest, most prolonged drug wars the western hemisphere has ever seen. There has been 70,000 deaths related to the drug wars in the past 6 years, more than we lost in Vietnam in the '60's. I can't imagine the NFL putting a franchise there, at least not under present conditions.
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