Pete Carroll - Did He Mentally Break Matt Flynn?

Always Fierce · Oct 8, 2013

Dude was unquestionably a hot prospect after 2011 and his shredding of the Detroit Lions (who played their starters) with a bunch of backup players in Green Bay. Had a better perfromance than anything by a Packers QB...in history.

Now, he gets cut in Oakland? What did Carroll do to him in Seattle to crush his balls?

-The Glove- · Oct 8, 2013

I think Flynn bought into his own hype. All you hear about is everyone else's work ethic around him. How so and so is first one in the building and last to leave. You never heard any of that about Flynn. It seems as if he expected to be the starter and just pouted when he actually had to work for it.

Scottemojo · Oct 8, 2013

The day vs Detroit Flynn was great, I said on this board that he just got PAID! Glad it won't be by us.

As free agency loomed, I was uber confident Flynn would not be a Hawk. He did not fit the Pete profile, very mobile, strong arm. Of course, neither did Manning, and Pete and John were willing to entertain that idea. Still, I was confident that the two games Flynn had on record, which I pored over play by play, showed a QB with an extremely limited arm, OK speed, and the most damning thing, a QB who struggled from under center in play action. Seeing as play action was a vital part of our identity, I was sure they would not sign him.

So they signed him. I was crestfallen. Not about being wrong, that happens to me all the time, but I felt the gun would have to be a big part of our game now, which would rob our tough run identity.

But they didn't change the offense. Which even with TJ was run first, take big shots. Flynn could not do it. Flynn could distribute the ball short just fine. Gaudy completion percentages for not much yards and field goals in pre-season. All the electricity of a dead battery, both on and off the field.

Off the field, a reporter from Milwaukee claimed that the gulf between Pete and Flynn began when he celebrated his signing with the Hawks by taking a vacation. It was immediate, Pete has one eyebrow up on Flynn from day one because a competitor would have been in his new offense, just learning as much as he can, contacting his new teammates, arranging a throw session, going where they were if he had to just to get to know them a bit. Unfortunately for Flynn, by May a competitor was in his new offense. Making him look terrible, not because he is, but because Wilson is Pete's soul mate. Positive energy, cliched single game,single play, single moment focus is shared by these two. Flynn is self described as not a rah rah guy. Even in saying that, he was saying he didn't buy into Pete's schtick. Pete NEEDS a guy who buys into his schtick.

Competition broke Flynn. Here, and in Oakland. He may have never been a fit, but it was competition that broke Flynn.

pehawk · Oct 8, 2013

There were other NFL teams designing their 2012 draft around nabbing Russell Wilson. One of them was the Seahawks, and the Seahawks we're the only team that no one knew wanted Russell Wilson, because of Flynn.

Flynn served as a back-up plan and a smoke screen to draft Wilson. The Eagles and a few other teams would've taken him in the early 3rd, and/or late 2nd, if they thought Seattle WASN'T all in with Flynn.

largenutz · Oct 8, 2013

Wow both of those replies were great- scott n pe, I never thought that if we didnt have Flynn we might not have got Russ. Guess he wasnt a complete waste.

Donn2390 · Oct 8, 2013

I said earlier Flynn would be out of football in two years. I guess I gave him too much credit. He might be out by the end of the year. He got two giant paydays on what he did in one game. When he didn't buy into Pete's rah rah stuff, I knew he was finished.
Using the sore elbow excuse two years in a row will be his undoing. No one will take a chance on a bad QB with a history of a sore elbow...
I guess his humiliation will be made liveable with the multi million bank account. I hope he studied in college....

MontanaHawk05 · Oct 8, 2013

Flynn was not unquestionably a hot commodity. Those six touchdowns vs Detroit are probably the six most overblown, overrated, overcelebrated touchdowns in the history of the NFL. It reeked "anomaly" from the start.

rastahawk · Oct 8, 2013

Flynn is a big boy. If Carroll broke him as the OP suggests then he hasn't got the mental game to be a starting QB in this league.

HawkWow · Oct 8, 2013

I feel compelled to raise my hand and admit I wanted Flynn in Seattle. After a lifetime of crap QBs (Hass excluded, for the most part), I was both desperate and wrong.

Happypuppy · Oct 8, 2013

rastahawk":3uvw65su said:
Flynn is a big boy. If Carroll broke him as the OP suggests then he hasn't got the mental game to be a starting QB in this league.

Yes, I agree. All those millions will go a long way to get over hurt feelings I am sure. I think most saw him as a bridge QB. We hoped he would be better thanTJ. Did anyone really thing he was going to light up the league ?

Gap Filler · Oct 8, 2013

Scottemojo":127ozx9n said:
The day vs Detroit Flynn was great, I said on this board that he just got PAID! Glad it won't be by us.

As free agency loomed, I was uber confident Flynn would not be a Hawk. He did not fit the Pete profile, very mobile, strong arm. Of course, neither did Manning, and Pete and John were willing to entertain that idea. Still, I was confident that the two games Flynn had on record, which I pored over play by play, showed a QB with an extremely limited arm, OK speed, and the most damning thing, a QB who struggled from under center in play action. Seeing as play action was a vital part of our identity, I was sure they would not sign him.

So they signed him. I was crestfallen. Not about being wrong, that happens to me all the time, but I felt the gun would have to be a big part of our game now, which would rob our tough run identity.

But they didn't change the offense. Which even with TJ was run first, take big shots. Flynn could not do it. Flynn could distribute the ball short just fine. Gaudy completion percentages for not much yards and field goals in pre-season. All the electricity of a dead battery, both on and off the field.

Off the field, a reporter from Milwaukee claimed that the gulf between Pete and Flynn began when he celebrated his signing with the Hawks by taking a vacation. It was immediate, Pete has one eyebrow up on Flynn from day one because a competitor would have been in his new offense, just learning as much as he can, contacting his new teammates, arranging a throw session, going where they were if he had to just to get to know them a bit. Unfortunately for Flynn, by May a competitor was in his new offense. Making him look terrible, not because he is, but because Wilson is Pete's soul mate. Positive energy, cliched single game,single play, single moment focus is shared by these two. Flynn is self described as not a rah rah guy. Even in saying that, he was saying he didn't buy into Pete's schtick. Pete NEEDS a guy who buys into his schtick.

Competition broke Flynn. Here, and in Oakland. He may have never been a fit, but it was competition that broke Flynn.

Bravo. Nicely done.

I wasn't all in with Flynn but I was in the camp of people who thought he should start the season last year because Wilson was a rook. Flynn never impressed me in the preseason. He had amazing completion % but he never made a play. Everything was dink and dunk. I guess he was my safe option. He might not win us the game but I didn't think he would lose it either. In hindsight Wilson was the better option and I learned something. You may lose some games with a young QB, but the experience he gains far outweighs a safe option. Examples: Wilson, Pryor, etc.

kearly · Oct 11, 2013

People are quick to discredit a QB who can't get it done without a stellar supporting cast. I guess that makes sense, until you watch Brock Osweiler relieve a historically good Peyton Manning and then struggle to get first downs throwing to the best arsenal of weapons in the NFL.

If Flynn is a palm tree, Oakland is freezing winter. Some things have requirements to reach their potential.

Not that his potential is all that great. Give him some time and he's a better version of Ryan Fitzpatrick. But when you are talking about QBs in free agency, really, a guy like Matt Flynn is the best you are going to do most years.

Flynn is bagged on more than he deserves, IMO. Though I guess all the silly people that rushed out for #15 jerseys or screamed bloody murder from their blogging mountaintop when Flynn lost the job probably fueled that antipathy as much as anything else.

ivotuk · Oct 11, 2013

pehawk":18n3cns4 said:
There were other NFL teams designing their 2012 draft around nabbing Russell Wilson. One of them was the Seahawks, and the Seahawks we're the only team that no one knew wanted Russell Wilson, because of Flynn.

Flynn served as a back-up plan and a smoke screen to draft Wilson. The Eagles and a few other teams would've taken him in the early 3rd, and/or late 2nd, if they thought Seattle WASN'T all in with Flynn.

This! Is absolute genius! Plus Flin was the best option we had at the time, he was basically a healthy Matt Hasselbeck.

Scottemojo · Oct 11, 2013

kearly":3n81nu0s said:
People are quick to discredit a QB who can't get it done without a stellar supporting cast. I guess that makes sense, until you watch Brock Osweiler relieve a historically good Peyton Manning and then struggle to get first downs throwing to the best arsenal of weapons in the NFL.

If Flynn is a palm tree, Oakland is freezing winter. Some things have requirements to reach their potential.

Not that his potential is all that great. Give him some time and he's a better version of Ryan Fitzpatrick. But when you are talking about QBs in free agency, really, a guy like Matt Flynn is the best you are going to do most years.

Flynn is bagged on more than he deserves, IMO. Though I guess all the silly people that rushed out for #15 jerseys or screamed bloody murder from their blogging mountaintop when Flynn lost the job probably fueled that antipathy as much as anything else.

IDK, Kip. He was short hopping 20 yard outs 5 yards short to open guys. I think some plays he starts his reads with a checkdown. THe Redskins team he looked so bad against is terrible in the secondary too. And that interception he threw? one of the worst passes I have seen since hasseltoss.

I hated the signing, but I tried to be supportive if he won the job, though it took about 5 passes from Russell in his first pre-season game to know he shouldn't. Russell had that one bad practice and Flynn sniffers glommed onto it en masse.

The biggest reason I am not worried about losing to the Titans? Fitzpatrick. I don't want any version of him on my team. Flynn's fans were annoying, the suspicions that Pete was lying about his elbow were stupid, but I just never thought he fit the offense at all.

Popeyejones · Oct 11, 2013

pehawk":1y9nmjdc said:
Flynn served as a back-up plan and a smoke screen to draft Wilson. The Eagles and a few other teams would've taken him in the early 3rd, and/or late 2nd, if they thought Seattle WASN'T all in with Flynn.

You don't give someone a 26 million dollar contract with a 10 million guaranteed over three years as "smoke screen." Rather than screwing yourself over with a "smoke screen" you can just skip the whole thing and take the guy a round earlier. If Pete or anyone else thought Wilson had second round value, they would have taken him in the second round.

Everyone was wrong about Wilson, the Hawks were just less wrong about him than all the other teams that needed QBs, which in the end is friggin great.

Gap Filler · Oct 11, 2013

Popeyejones":1wyhatyo said:
pehawk":1wyhatyo said:

Flynn served as a back-up plan and a smoke screen to draft Wilson. The Eagles and a few other teams would've taken him in the early 3rd, and/or late 2nd, if they thought Seattle WASN'T all in with Flynn.

Click to expand...

You don't give someone a 26 million dollar contract with a 10 million guaranteed over three years as "smoke screen." Rather than screwing yourself over with a "smoke screen" you can just skip the whole thing and take the guy a round earlier. If Pete or anyone else thought Wilson had second round value, they would have taken him in the second round.

Everyone was wrong about Wilson, the Hawks were just less wrong about him than all the other teams that needed QBs, which in the end is friggin great.

I'm not buying either of those theories/opinions. Schneider wanted Wilson in the 2nd, but I think Pete had to be talked into it and wanted to wait. But Schneider isn't perfect either. I think Schneider was the driving force behind the Whitehurst deal and Pete had to be talked into that as well.

The Radish · Oct 11, 2013

Hard to feel sorry for a guy that made $8.6 million last year and I think $6.5 this year. If he feels bad at least if he's smarter about money than he has been about elbows he should be set for life.

:roll:

C-Dub · Oct 11, 2013

HawkWow":2dmwdz4x said:
I feel compelled to raise my hand and admit I wanted Flynn in Seattle. After a lifetime of crap QBs (Hass excluded, for the most part), I was both desperate and wrong.

I've got some crow to eat too.

I was hoping he'd be an answer at QB, because I was just tired of having crap for so long.

kearly · Oct 11, 2013

Scottemojo":1kk2pc7j said:
kearly":1kk2pc7j said:

People are quick to discredit a QB who can't get it done without a stellar supporting cast. I guess that makes sense, until you watch Brock Osweiler relieve a historically good Peyton Manning and then struggle to get first downs throwing to the best arsenal of weapons in the NFL.

If Flynn is a palm tree, Oakland is freezing winter. Some things have requirements to reach their potential.

Not that his potential is all that great. Give him some time and he's a better version of Ryan Fitzpatrick. But when you are talking about QBs in free agency, really, a guy like Matt Flynn is the best you are going to do most years.

Flynn is bagged on more than he deserves, IMO. Though I guess all the silly people that rushed out for #15 jerseys or screamed bloody murder from their blogging mountaintop when Flynn lost the job probably fueled that antipathy as much as anything else.

Click to expand...

IDK, Kip. He was short hopping 20 yard outs 5 yards short to open guys. I think some plays he starts his reads with a checkdown. THe Redskins team he looked so bad against is terrible in the secondary too. And that interception he threw? one of the worst passes I have seen since hasseltoss.

I hated the signing, but I tried to be supportive if he won the job, though it took about 5 passes from Russell in his first pre-season game to know he shouldn't. Russell had that one bad practice and Flynn sniffers glommed onto it en masse.

The biggest reason I am not worried about losing to the Titans? Fitzpatrick. I don't want any version of him on my team. Flynn's fans were annoying, the suspicions that Pete was lying about his elbow were stupid, but I just never thought he fit the offense at all.

I don't disagree with any of that. Hassletoss. Ah the memories.

Can you refresh me on that preseason pass the Flynn-backers harped Wilson for?

Scottemojo · Oct 11, 2013

kearly":l986i0zx said:
Scottemojo":l986i0zx said:

kearly":l986i0zx said:

People are quick to discredit a QB who can't get it done without a stellar supporting cast. I guess that makes sense, until you watch Brock Osweiler relieve a historically good Peyton Manning and then struggle to get first downs throwing to the best arsenal of weapons in the NFL.

If Flynn is a palm tree, Oakland is freezing winter. Some things have requirements to reach their potential.

Not that his potential is all that great. Give him some time and he's a better version of Ryan Fitzpatrick. But when you are talking about QBs in free agency, really, a guy like Matt Flynn is the best you are going to do most years.

Flynn is bagged on more than he deserves, IMO. Though I guess all the silly people that rushed out for #15 jerseys or screamed bloody murder from their blogging mountaintop when Flynn lost the job probably fueled that antipathy as much as anything else.

Click to expand...

IDK, Kip. He was short hopping 20 yard outs 5 yards short to open guys. I think some plays he starts his reads with a checkdown. THe Redskins team he looked so bad against is terrible in the secondary too. And that interception he threw? one of the worst passes I have seen since hasseltoss.

I hated the signing, but I tried to be supportive if he won the job, though it took about 5 passes from Russell in his first pre-season game to know he shouldn't. Russell had that one bad practice and Flynn sniffers glommed onto it en masse.

The biggest reason I am not worried about losing to the Titans? Fitzpatrick. I don't want any version of him on my team. Flynn's fans were annoying, the suspicions that Pete was lying about his elbow were stupid, but I just never thought he fit the offense at all.

Click to expand...

I don't disagree with any of that. Hassletoss. Ah the memories.

Can you refresh me on that preseason pass the Flynn-backers harped Wilson for?

It wasn't one pass, it was a terrible practice. I think Hawkblogger was there that day. Wilson threw something like three terrible picks. Pete has mentioned it a couple of times, but in a positive way, he liked how Wilson made sure he did not make those mistakes again.

Pete Carroll - Did He Mentally Break Matt Flynn?

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