Cfuji wrote:If Colts fans want to be honest, they would rather have Peyton Manning over Luck.
I want to win NOW, have fun watching your former QB in the Superbowl.

LotsOfLuck wrote:All else being equal, we'd love to still have Manning right now. He comes back to Indy in 2 weeks. Tune in and see how much love we show him. The guy put INDY Colts football on the map. He will never be forgotten and practically everyone in Indy has adopted Denver as their #2 team. If we can't win it, and I don't think our roster is quite built to that level yet, then we'll enjoy watching Denver win the Lombardi.

That said, if we had Manning right now we'd still be in salary cap hell and wouldn't have been able to rebuild the rest of the team that was falling apart around him. Also, I think we'll be happy to have Luck for, hopefully, about 8-10 years after Manning retires. It was a tough decision that had to be made but I don't think you'll find anyone in Indy that thinks it was the wrong one.

LotsOfLuck wrote:This continues to be the only place where I even see people discussing this.

TJH wrote:

Sgt. Largent wrote:

KARAVARUS wrote:I still don't see why you think I am irrational if I don't want Luck over Wilson. Or am I misunderstanding? Literally, no part of me wants Luck over Wilson. None. Zero. Nada. Does that mean I think Wilson is better or that I hate Luck? I don't think so. I am happy with our QB, and it has to do with more than QB play on the field. I think Luck leaves Indy at some point in his career. Maybe Wilson leaves eventually too, but I think we have a better chance of having RW forever than Indy has of keeping Luck forever. I have no evidence to back that claim, mind you, none. I'm just happy with our guy. Call me crazy.

You are crazy.

If you polled every GM and coach in the league (other than Seattle's), they'd take Luck over Wilson........

And candidly, our GM would take Luck in a heartbeat. That won't be a popular statement but it's the truth.

Sgt. Largent wrote:

KARAVARUS wrote:I still don't see why you think I am irrational if I don't want Luck over Wilson. Or am I misunderstanding? Literally, no part of me wants Luck over Wilson. None. Zero. Nada. Does that mean I think Wilson is better or that I hate Luck? I don't think so. I am happy with our QB, and it has to do with more than QB play on the field. I think Luck leaves Indy at some point in his career. Maybe Wilson leaves eventually too, but I think we have a better chance of having RW forever than Indy has of keeping Luck forever. I have no evidence to back that claim, mind you, none. I'm just happy with our guy. Call me crazy.

You are crazy.

If you polled every GM and coach in the league (other than Seattle's), they'd take Luck over Wilson........and you would too if you removed your allegiance to the Hawks.

I love Russell, he's a top 10 QB in this league and a fantastic teammate, role model and community leader. But Luck is an every 25 year type of QB. IMO he's that special.

DavidSeven wrote:My thoughts: Russell Wilson is Pete Carroll's dream QB.

He's a guy who can play behind a run-oriented line because of his ability to scramble, and he doesn't have to throw the ball away when pressured. He can also complete "explosive" passes and protects the ball with his life. Pete Carroll's entire philosophy is built around three things: 1) protect the football; 2) establish the run; and 3) hit on explosive passes. Russell's unique skill set plays into all three of these things.

Do you guys think it's a coincidence that PC just signed a Russell Wilson clone to be his back-up? This is the guy he's looked for his entire coaching career.

aawolf wrote:

Sgt. Largent wrote:

KARAVARUS wrote:I still don't see why you think I am irrational if I don't want Luck over Wilson. Or am I misunderstanding? Literally, no part of me wants Luck over Wilson. None. Zero. Nada. Does that mean I think Wilson is better or that I hate Luck? I don't think so. I am happy with our QB, and it has to do with more than QB play on the field. I think Luck leaves Indy at some point in his career. Maybe Wilson leaves eventually too, but I think we have a better chance of having RW forever than Indy has of keeping Luck forever. I have no evidence to back that claim, mind you, none. I'm just happy with our guy. Call me crazy.

You are crazy.

If you polled every GM and coach in the league (other than Seattle's), they'd take Luck over Wilson........and you would too if you removed your allegiance to the Hawks.

I love Russell, he's a top 10 QB in this league and a fantastic teammate, role model and community leader. But Luck is an every 25 year type of QB. IMO he's that special.

Luck is better if you ignore every statistical category other than total yards; including stats like total wins, completion percentage, TDs, QBR, YPA, rushing yards, ect. Sgt. Largent, you have bought into the hype.

You can make the case that Luck is more accurate, but completion percentage blows that up.

Look, I'm not saying both will not be elite. I predict both will be Hall of Famers one day. I'm just saying RW deserves the same amount of props for being great as Luck does and several posters on this board need to recognize it. He doesn't deserve to be thought of as only the third best or fourth best Sophomore QB. He's been more successful that Luck and just as clutch.

paramedic586 wrote:

aawolf wrote:

Sgt. Largent wrote:

KARAVARUS wrote:I still don't see why you think I am irrational if I don't want Luck over Wilson. Or am I misunderstanding? Literally, no part of me wants Luck over Wilson. None. Zero. Nada. Does that mean I think Wilson is better or that I hate Luck? I don't think so. I am happy with our QB, and it has to do with more than QB play on the field. I think Luck leaves Indy at some point in his career. Maybe Wilson leaves eventually too, but I think we have a better chance of having RW forever than Indy has of keeping Luck forever. I have no evidence to back that claim, mind you, none. I'm just happy with our guy. Call me crazy.

You are crazy.

If you polled every GM and coach in the league (other than Seattle's), they'd take Luck over Wilson........and you would too if you removed your allegiance to the Hawks.

I love Russell, he's a top 10 QB in this league and a fantastic teammate, role model and community leader. But Luck is an every 25 year type of QB. IMO he's that special.

Luck is better if you ignore every statistical category other than total yards; including stats like total wins, completion percentage, TDs, QBR, YPA, rushing yards, ect. Sgt. Largent, you have bought into the hype.

You can make the case that Luck is more accurate, but completion percentage blows that up.

Look, I'm not saying both will not be elite. I predict both will be Hall of Famers one day. I'm just saying RW deserves the same amount of props for being great as Luck does and several posters on this board need to recognize it. He doesn't deserve to be thought of as only the third best or fourth best Sophomore QB. He's been more successful that Luck and just as clutch.

Actually luck has a better QBR then Wilson. Luck also has more passing yards with less INTs. I wouldn't use rushing yards as a statistic for who is a better QB.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr

TJH wrote:

Sgt. Largent wrote:

KARAVARUS wrote:I still don't see why you think I am irrational if I don't want Luck over Wilson. Or am I misunderstanding? Literally, no part of me wants Luck over Wilson. None. Zero. Nada. Does that mean I think Wilson is better or that I hate Luck? I don't think so. I am happy with our QB, and it has to do with more than QB play on the field. I think Luck leaves Indy at some point in his career. Maybe Wilson leaves eventually too, but I think we have a better chance of having RW forever than Indy has of keeping Luck forever. I have no evidence to back that claim, mind you, none. I'm just happy with our guy. Call me crazy.

You are crazy.

If you polled every GM and coach in the league (other than Seattle's), they'd take Luck over Wilson........

And candidly, our GM would take Luck in a heartbeat. That won't be a popular statement but it's the truth.

KARAVARUS wrote:I still don't see why you think I am irrational if I don't want Luck over Wilson. Or am I misunderstanding? Literally, no part of me wants Luck over Wilson. None. Zero. Nada. Does that mean I think Wilson is better or that I hate Luck? I don't think so. I am happy with our QB, and it has to do with more than QB play on the field. I think Luck leaves Indy at some point in his career. Maybe Wilson leaves eventually too, but I think we have a better chance of having RW forever than Indy has of keeping Luck forever. I have no evidence to back that claim, mind you, none. I'm just happy with our guy. Call me crazy.

Sgt. Largent wrote:

KARAVARUS wrote:I still don't see why you think I am irrational if I don't want Luck over Wilson. Or am I misunderstanding? Literally, no part of me wants Luck over Wilson. None. Zero. Nada. Does that mean I think Wilson is better or that I hate Luck? I don't think so. I am happy with our QB, and it has to do with more than QB play on the field. I think Luck leaves Indy at some point in his career. Maybe Wilson leaves eventually too, but I think we have a better chance of having RW forever than Indy has of keeping Luck forever. I have no evidence to back that claim, mind you, none. I'm just happy with our guy. Call me crazy.

You are crazy.

If you polled every GM and coach in the league (other than Seattle's), they'd take Luck over Wilson........and you would too if you removed your allegiance to the Hawks.

I love Russell, he's a top 10 QB in this league and a fantastic teammate, role model and community leader. But Luck is an every 25 year type of QB. IMO he's that special.

aawolf wrote:I thought I'd make a separate thread on this considering it has been a topic of conversation throughout the week. I know you all were watching how they performed in this game, as I was. With all of the hype Luck has been given throughout the draft and throughout his career, and all the ball-licking commentary praising Luck that was going on throughout the broadcast, it is clear that Luck is more highly regarded across the country than Russell Wilson. But, by any statistical measure, including total wins, completion percentage, TDs, total TDs, and QBR, Russell Wilson is clearly the superior QB.

However, Luck got the one statistic that truly mattered yesterday, when he and the Colts beat the Wilson-led Seahawks. While Luck played great, I sense from a lot of .netters that they are buying into the hype that Luck is a superior QB. If you just focus on the fact that Luck won, he played better. However, having saw the game, it was clear to me that Wilson actually played better on the field, and if not for a few costly penalties and a drop by a wide-open Lynch, we would have won. Lets look at the stats:


RW: Passing: 15-31, 210 yds; Rushing: 13 carries, 102 yds; Total yds: 312
Luck: Passing: 16-29, 229 yds; Rushing: 4 carries, 9 yds; Total yds: 236

RUSSELL WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR MORE TOTAL YARDS THAN ANDREW LUCK!!

Total net yards from both teams:
Seahawks: 423
Colts: 317

Russell Wilson was responsible for 5 LESS YARDS THAN THE ENTIRE COLTS OFFENSE!

Bartmuley wrote:Last year for most of the year Wilson was a game manager, nothing wrong with that but the Seahawks D and running game (and replacement refs) were what won the Seahawks games last year.

Bartmuley wrote:Wilson is very good but his best asset is being ale to run when he gets in a jam. Look how many times he ran against the Colts.

Wilson also has one of the best Ds, if not the best, in the league and a running game.

Luck is a better QB. Obviously it bothers the OP since he started a thread about it.

I keep seeing people talk about "accuracy"....you guys know Wilson is only completing 58% of his passes this year.....right? Which is less than the "inaccurate" Luck.

Last year for most of the year Wilson was a game manager, nothing wrong with that but the Seahawks D and running game (and replacement refs) were what won the Seahawks games last year.

Luck is already better than Wislon and is only going to get better as he ages, Wilson is going to slow down and he won't be able to rely on running as an escape every time he gets in trouble. It will affect his game.

Bartmuley wrote:Wilson is very good but his best asset is being ale to run when he gets in a jam. Look how many times he ran against the Colts.

Wilson also has one of the best Ds, if not the best, in the league and a running game.

Luck is a better QB. Obviously it bothers the OP since he started a thread about it.

I keep seeing people talk about "accuracy"....you guys know Wilson is only completing 58% of his passes this year.....right? Which is less than the "inaccurate" Luck.

Last year for most of the year Wilson was a game manager, nothing wrong with that but the Seahawks D and running game (and replacement refs) were what won the Seahawks games last year.

Luck is already better than Wislon and is only going to get better as he ages, Wilson is going to slow down and he won't be able to rely on running as an escape every time he gets in trouble. It will affect his game.

DavidSeven wrote:We get it, man. You hate Russell Wilson. You've seriously dogged him in basically every thread that's come up in the last two days. Hard to take you seriously.

NFSeahawks628 wrote:

Sgt. Largent wrote:

KARAVARUS wrote:I still don't see why you think I am irrational if I don't want Luck over Wilson. Or am I misunderstanding? Literally, no part of me wants Luck over Wilson. None. Zero. Nada. Does that mean I think Wilson is better or that I hate Luck? I don't think so. I am happy with our QB, and it has to do with more than QB play on the field. I think Luck leaves Indy at some point in his career. Maybe Wilson leaves eventually too, but I think we have a better chance of having RW forever than Indy has of keeping Luck forever. I have no evidence to back that claim, mind you, none. I'm just happy with our guy. Call me crazy.

You are crazy.

If you polled every GM and coach in the league (other than Seattle's), they'd take Luck over Wilson........and you would too if you removed your allegiance to the Hawks.

I love Russell, he's a top 10 QB in this league and a fantastic teammate, role model and community leader. But Luck is an every 25 year type of QB. IMO he's that special.

How so? His stats to this point are less than what Wilson has done and youre talking about him like he's the next Joe Montana. Maybe he has the potential to do something like that but until he proves it and gets his first playoff win, all those accolades you and the rest of the media want to give him are fictitious.

I think Luck is great I just don't really think he's beyond Russell Wilson or even on another level yet, theres still lots to improve on in his game.

Sgt. Largent wrote:No one can convince me that any GM/coach combo would choose Wilson over Luck. That right there should end this debate.

Sgt. Largent wrote:[But it'll be interesting to see how well he does when he starts approaching age 30 and his mobility slows down. Allusiveness is his biggest asset right now, what happens when that wanes? Hopefully we start building the hell out of our O-Line in the coming years so we don't have to find out.

coltsfan1405 wrote:lol im sorry but Wilson is not on lucks level VERY close but just not yet I hope we see you guys in the superbowl cause it will be a very good game and on neutral grounds in NY

Sarlacc83 wrote:

Bartmuley wrote:Last year for most of the year Wilson was a game manager, nothing wrong with that but the Seahawks D and running game (and replacement refs) were what won the Seahawks games last year.

Hahahaha, you don't know anything. Go watch the Bears game. Or the Atlanta game. Or the December 49ers game.

Game manager. Brilliant.

Bartmuley wrote:

Sarlacc83 wrote:

Bartmuley wrote:Last year for most of the year Wilson was a game manager, nothing wrong with that but the Seahawks D and running game (and replacement refs) were what won the Seahawks games last year.

Hahahaha, you don't know anything. Go watch the Bears game. Or the Atlanta game. Or the December 49ers game.

Game manager. Brilliant.

You obviously missed the "most of the year" part of my post. It's OK, i know some people have trouble reading. Just go reread my post, I'm sure you'll see it tis time.

DavidSeven wrote:

Sgt. Largent wrote:Tarkenton, Favre, and Young were mobile and productive well beyond 30. Russell isn't a running QB.

Sgt. Largent wrote:

NFSeahawks628 wrote:

Sgt. Largent wrote:

KARAVARUS wrote:I still don't see why you think I am irrational if I don't want Luck over Wilson. Or am I misunderstanding? Literally, no part of me wants Luck over Wilson. None. Zero. Nada. Does that mean I think Wilson is better or that I hate Luck? I don't think so. I am happy with our QB, and it has to do with more than QB play on the field. I think Luck leaves Indy at some point in his career. Maybe Wilson leaves eventually too, but I think we have a better chance of having RW forever than Indy has of keeping Luck forever. I have no evidence to back that claim, mind you, none. I'm just happy with our guy. Call me crazy.

You are crazy.

If you polled every GM and coach in the league (other than Seattle's), they'd take Luck over Wilson........and you would too if you removed your allegiance to the Hawks.

I love Russell, he's a top 10 QB in this league and a fantastic teammate, role model and community leader. But Luck is an every 25 year type of QB. IMO he's that special.

How so? His stats to this point are less than what Wilson has done and youre talking about him like he's the next Joe Montana. Maybe he has the potential to do something like that but until he proves it and gets his first playoff win, all those accolades you and the rest of the media want to give him are fictitious.

I think Luck is great I just don't really think he's beyond Russell Wilson or even on another level yet, theres still lots to improve on in his game.

IMO Wilson's stats were better last year because Wilson had more talent around him, and a much better offensive line. Now that Luck has some talent on offense you'll notice that their 2013 stats are very close.

No one can convince me that any GM/coach combo would choose Wilson over Luck. That right there should end this debate. Both are very good QB's, but IMO Luck is the TOTAL package. He has no deficiencies.

Wilson also has the ability to have a very good long career, and I'm glad we have him. But it'll be interesting to see how well he does when he starts approaching age 30 and his mobility slows down. Allusiveness is his biggest asset right now, what happens when that wanes? Hopefully we start building the hell out of our O-Line in the coming years so we don't have to find out.

TJH wrote:

DavidSeven wrote:We get it, man. You hate Russell Wilson. You've seriously dogged him in basically every thread that's come up in the last two days. Hard to take you seriously.

I don't hate him at all. I really like him as a person and think he has a ton of potential.

1. I am disapointed in his progress so far this year. I expected a lot more out of him. A lot of it is the Oline but to give them all the blame is foolish. He needs to get better. He needs to get better with his reads and downfield vision and his accuracy needs to improve. He also needs to work on stepping into the pocket against edge pressure instead of sliding out. Against inside pressure that's not really his fault and not much he can do. The good thing is that these are all rectifiable.

2. 32/32 GMs in the league would take Luck. That's just the honest truth.

-The Glove- wrote:

TJH wrote:

DavidSeven wrote:We get it, man. You hate Russell Wilson. You've seriously dogged him in basically every thread that's come up in the last two days. Hard to take you seriously.

I don't hate him at all. I really like him as a person and think he has a ton of potential.

1. I am disapointed in his progress so far this year. I expected a lot more out of him. A lot of it is the Oline but to give them all the blame is foolish. He needs to get better. He needs to get better with his reads and downfield vision and his accuracy needs to improve. He also needs to work on stepping into the pocket against edge pressure instead of sliding out. Against inside pressure that's not really his fault and not much he can do. The good thing is that these are all rectifiable.

2. 32/32 GMs in the league would take Luck. That's just the honest truth.

Unless you talked to 32 GM's, there's no sort of truth to that.

MysterMatt wrote:I don't know if this is all because our OL has more or less failed to rise to the occasion in Pass Pro (seem to be doing a little better in run game of late), but Russell just seems "off" a wee bit. Not a ton, mind you, but I don't mind telling you I'm a little...concerned.

Sarlacc83 wrote:

Bartmuley wrote:

Sarlacc83 wrote:

Bartmuley wrote:Last year for most of the year Wilson was a game manager, nothing wrong with that but the Seahawks D and running game (and replacement refs) were what won the Seahawks games last year.

Hahahaha, you don't know anything. Go watch the Bears game. Or the Atlanta game. Or the December 49ers game.

Game manager. Brilliant.

You obviously missed the "most of the year" part of my post. It's OK, i know some people have trouble reading. Just go reread my post, I'm sure you'll see it tis time.

Nope; I just know that you don't know anything.

TJH wrote:

-The Glove- wrote:

TJH wrote:

DavidSeven wrote:We get it, man. You hate Russell Wilson. You've seriously dogged him in basically every thread that's come up in the last two days. Hard to take you seriously.

I don't hate him at all. I really like him as a person and think he has a ton of potential.

1. I am disapointed in his progress so far this year. I expected a lot more out of him. A lot of it is the Oline but to give them all the blame is foolish. He needs to get better. He needs to get better with his reads and downfield vision and his accuracy needs to improve. He also needs to work on stepping into the pocket against edge pressure instead of sliding out. Against inside pressure that's not really his fault and not much he can do. The good thing is that these are all rectifiable.

2. 32/32 GMs in the league would take Luck. That's just the honest truth.

Unless you talked to 32 GM's, there's no sort of truth to that.

Luck was universally acclaimed as the best prospect in 20 years since Elway and has done nothing to dispell that. This isn' really even questionable.

Sgt. Largent wrote:

MysterMatt wrote:I don't know if this is all because our OL has more or less failed to rise to the occasion in Pass Pro (seem to be doing a little better in run game of late), but Russell just seems "off" a wee bit. Not a ton, mind you, but I don't mind telling you I'm a little...concerned.

I'm not concerned about Wilson. Right now he's trying to operate behind a horrific offensive line. Seriously, our O-line was under performing BEFORE all the injuries, and now they're just flat out getting beat on a regular basis......especially pass blocking.

No QB, even Manning and Brees could operate efficiently behind this line. Add in the fact that guys like Miller and Rice aren't playing up to their potential (or in Miller's case aren't playing at all), and it spells disaster for Russell.

The good news is Harvin is coming back, and hopefully Unger and Breno get back to full health. Then Okung in November and we should be good to go for the stretch run.

Bartmuley wrote:I know Russel passed for less than 200 yards 9 times last season, averaged only around 24 attempts per game, and only passed for 300 yards once, in a loss in the playoffs.

Hell the guy passed for less than 175 yards 9 times.

Like I said, most of the year he was a game manager. He was a rookie on a team with a great running game and defense, he did what was asked of him, but the fact is what he did and what Luck did last year as far as roles go, are totally different.

Sarlacc83 wrote:

Bartmuley wrote:I know Russel passed for less than 200 yards 9 times last season, averaged only around 24 attempts per game, and only passed for 300 yards once, in a loss in the playoffs.

Hell the guy passed for less than 175 yards 9 times.

Like I said, most of the year he was a game manager. He was a rookie on a team with a great running game and defense, he did what was asked of him, but the fact is what he did and what Luck did last year as far as roles go, are totally different.

You can keep repeating that talking point, but since you didn't watch the games, you don't know. Wilson threw less because the identity of the team is to run the ball, not because Wilson had any limitations (except the artificial limitation for the first five games). You're looking at the stats without context. Like, for instance, the fact that Wilson threw for sub 200 yards at the end of the season games because the team, as a total, kicked so much ass he was out of 2 of those games by the third quarter.

Furthermore, game managers DON'T tie the record for rookie TD throws. Nor do their numbers go drastically up when the team needs it. (See: Bears, Patriots). Once again: You don't know anything.

Sarlacc83 wrote:

Bartmuley wrote:I know Russel passed for less than 200 yards 9 times last season, averaged only around 24 attempts per game, and only passed for 300 yards once, in a loss in the playoffs.

Hell the guy passed for less than 175 yards 9 times.

Like I said, most of the year he was a game manager. He was a rookie on a team with a great running game and defense, he did what was asked of him, but the fact is what he did and what Luck did last year as far as roles go, are totally different.

You can keep repeating that talking point, but since you didn't watch the games, you don't know. Wilson threw less because the identity of the team is to run the ball, not because Wilson had any limitations (except the artificial limitation for the first five games). You're looking at the stats without context. Like, for instance, the fact that Wilson threw for sub 200 yards at the end of the season games because the team, as a total, kicked so much ass he was out of 2 of those games by the third quarter.

Furthermore, game managers DON'T tie the record for rookie TD throws. Nor do their numbers go drastically up when the team needs it. (See: Bears, Patriots). Once again: You don't know anything.