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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:28 pm 
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Bartmuley wrote:
austinslater25 wrote:
Its the only stat you have mentioned and its WORSE for Luck than it is for Wilson....and thats your strongest argument! lol Does that not tell you something?


I've mentioned a bunch of stats, so not sure which one you're referring to.

If you're talking about the INT percentage I mentioned that because someone brought up Luck having so many more turnovers than Wilson. I pointed out that Luck only had so many more turnovers because he had so many more attempts.

It's not exactly rocket science. Look at their INT percentages lol. And Luck was going deep more Wilson. That affects completion percentage and INT numbers.

It's like you guys don't understand how football works around here or something.

I mean...how can you not understand an INT percentage lol?




You also have to take into account the strength of schedule and defensive opposition. If my memory serves me right, the Colts had one of the easier schedules out there against weaker defensive teams.

You refer to Russell being a manager. For the second half of the season he was tops in 3rd down conversions and the redzone. Above all QBs. Game managers don't do that.

Also, to dismiss decision making on Luck's throws since he was "making harder throws" is a bit silly. It's a perfect excuse to hide bad throws. Sure the offense predicated it, but it's silly to act like he had no choice.


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:28 pm 
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hawker84 wrote:
Who cares about Luck and the Colts. Good QB, good team. But they do not have a championship caliber defense. With their D there going to have to beat the GOOD teams in a shoot out, good luck doing that against DEN and NE.


The Colts D is 13th in total D.

The last time the Colts won the SB their D was ranked around 30th.

Also see 2010 Packers.

Baltimore's D was around 12th last season.

And NE? Have you even been watching this season? NE isn't exactly a high powered offense anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:30 pm 
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Who is this clown on lucks nuts?

You want to see something that is REALLY pathetic for luck....here are the 8 common opponents from last year

Luck
197/364, 54.1% , 2573, 7.1 yards attempt, 14TD, 13INT 74.6 rating
115 rushing yards 1 TD, 3 lost fumbles

Wilson
137/213, 64.3%, 1742, 8.2 yards attempt, 17TD, 1INT, 114.4 rating
306 rushing yards 3TD, 2 lost fumbles


Oh and they also BOTH had 10 30+ yard passes so there goes your luck throws deep balls all over the place theory.

Ya man, I guess having 12 less INT, 3 more passing TD, 10% more accuracy and 39.8 more QB rating is "really close".

Also please tell me how Wilson "game manager" was able to tie the rookie record for TD passes which Manning held if he was "just a game manager" and he did it with WAY less attempts than luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:32 pm 
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Bartmuley wrote:
hawker84 wrote:
Who cares about Luck and the Colts. Good QB, good team. But they do not have a championship caliber defense. With their D there going to have to beat the GOOD teams in a shoot out, good luck doing that against DEN and NE.


The Colts D is 13th in total D.

The last time the Colts won the SB their D was ranked around 30th.

Also see 2010 Packers.

Baltimore's D was around 12th last season.

And NE? Have you even been watching this season? NE isn't exactly a high powered offense anymore.


OK great stats, and i still say you face DEN or NE in the playoffs your season is over... all three of your defenses suck, but out of the three QB's, i'll take those two over luck right now.

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Last edited by hawker84 on Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:33 pm 
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hawker84 wrote:
Bartmuley wrote:
hawker84 wrote:
Who cares about Luck and the Colts. Good QB, good team. But they do not have a championship caliber defense. With their D there going to have to beat the GOOD teams in a shoot out, good luck doing that against DEN and NE.


The Colts D is 13th in total D.

The last time the Colts won the SB their D was ranked around 30th.

Also see 2010 Packers.

Baltimore's D was around 12th last season.

And NE? Have you even been watching this season? NE isn't exactly a high powered offense anymore.


OK great stats, and i still say you face DEN or NE in the playoffs your season is over...


What about the Chiefs? They are playing some good football


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:35 pm 
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Not quite sold there yet, but they're definitely in the conversation.

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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:41 pm 
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hawker84 wrote:
Bartmuley wrote:
hawker84 wrote:
Who cares about Luck and the Colts. Good QB, good team. But they do not have a championship caliber defense. With their D there going to have to beat the GOOD teams in a shoot out, good luck doing that against DEN and NE.


The Colts D is 13th in total D.

The last time the Colts won the SB their D was ranked around 30th.

Also see 2010 Packers.

Baltimore's D was around 12th last season.

And NE? Have you even been watching this season? NE isn't exactly a high powered offense anymore.


OK great stats, and i still say you face DEN or NE in the playoffs your season is over... all three of your defenses suck, but out of the three QB's, i'll take those two over luck right now.


And I still say you apparently haven't seen NE play this year. They're a good team, but nothing better. And their offense is a joke compared to past NE offenses.


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:43 pm 
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Bartmuley wrote:
hawker84 wrote:
Bartmuley wrote:
hawker84 wrote:
Who cares about Luck and the Colts. Good QB, good team. But they do not have a championship caliber defense. With their D there going to have to beat the GOOD teams in a shoot out, good luck doing that against DEN and NE.


The Colts D is 13th in total D.

The last time the Colts won the SB their D was ranked around 30th.

Also see 2010 Packers.

Baltimore's D was around 12th last season.

And NE? Have you even been watching this season? NE isn't exactly a high powered offense anymore.


OK great stats, and i still say you face DEN or NE in the playoffs your season is over... all three of your defenses suck, but out of the three QB's, i'll take those two over luck right now.


And I still say you apparently haven't seen NE play this year. They're a good team, but nothing better. And their offense is a joke compared to past NE offenses.


As much as I disagree with this guys stance on Luck and Wilson, he is right about the pats. I think they make the playoffs but they will probably be out pretty quickly. They just seem like an average team to me


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:47 pm 
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WilsonMVP wrote:
Who is this clown on lucks nuts?

You want to see something that is REALLY pathetic for luck....here are the 8 common opponents from last year

Luck
197/364, 54.1% , 2573, 7.1 yards attempt, 14TD, 13INT 74.6 rating
115 rushing yards 1 TD, 3 lost fumbles

Wilson
137/213, 64.3%, 1742, 8.2 yards attempt, 17TD, 1INT, 114.4 rating
306 rushing yards 3TD, 2 lost fumbles


Oh and they also BOTH had 10 30+ yard passes so there goes your luck throws deep balls all over the place theory.

Ya man, I guess having 12 less INT, 3 more passing TD, 10% more accuracy and 39.8 more QB rating is "really close".

Also please tell me how Wilson "game manager" was able to tie the rookie record for TD passes which Manning held if he was "just a game manager" and he did it with WAY less attempts than luck.


Lol, you still don't get the concept of "different teams" buddy.

Luck was playing on a team tht was rebuilding and almost entirely new.

Wilson played on a good team, with vets, that needed a QB.

I keep telling you guys, context lol.

And Wilson was a game manager for most of last season, that's just a fact. The Seahawks relied on their D and run game. That's why he averaged (and still averages) less than 200 yards per game.

He's a good QB, but his role wasnt comparable to Lucks last season.

Calm down.


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:51 pm 
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Bartmuley wrote:
WilsonMVP wrote:
Who is this clown on lucks nuts?

You want to see something that is REALLY pathetic for luck....here are the 8 common opponents from last year

Luck
197/364, 54.1% , 2573, 7.1 yards attempt, 14TD, 13INT 74.6 rating
115 rushing yards 1 TD, 3 lost fumbles

Wilson
137/213, 64.3%, 1742, 8.2 yards attempt, 17TD, 1INT, 114.4 rating
306 rushing yards 3TD, 2 lost fumbles


Oh and they also BOTH had 10 30+ yard passes so there goes your luck throws deep balls all over the place theory.

Ya man, I guess having 12 less INT, 3 more passing TD, 10% more accuracy and 39.8 more QB rating is "really close".

Also please tell me how Wilson "game manager" was able to tie the rookie record for TD passes which Manning held if he was "just a game manager" and he did it with WAY less attempts than luck.


Lol, you still don't get the concept of "different teams" buddy.

Luck was playing on a team tht was rebuilding and almost entirely new.

Wilson played on a good team, with vets, that needed a QB.

I keep telling you guys, context lol.

And Wilson was a game manager for most of last season, that's just a fact. The Seahawks relied on their D and run game. That's why he averaged (and still averages) less than 200 yards per game.

He's a good QB, but his role wasnt comparable to Lucks last season.

Calm down.


Ok but that is the best comparison you can do because they played the same teams. I would say Wilson was a game manager for the first part of the year but the last half of the year he certainly wasnt. And yards dont mean shit. The Seahawks are a run oriented team and also play close so unless they fall behind alot he probably wont be throwing alot, doesnt mean he is a game manager just because he doesnt have that many yards. If a team gets behind by 2 or more TDs they probably arent running the ball they are throwing it over and over.

Also you are basically saying there is no way to compare them so why are you here?


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:54 pm 
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What short term memories people have. Does nobody remember Wilson throwing from the pocket behind the biggest (tallest) O-line in college (and bigger than most NFL lines) while at Wisconsin? Wilson scrambles out of necessity when playing behind a patchwork O-Line or play design to take advantage of a strong running game. While at Wisconsin he set the NCAA record for passing efficiency throwing behind an offensive line that dominated. He set the record (since broken) for pass attempts without an interception while at NC State. Quit talking about height and accuracy problems as though he is operating in a vacuum. Football is the ultimate team game and QB play reflects that directly. Wilson protects the ball and has the skill set to make game-changing explosive plays. He won't win every game, and certainly not by himself. But, he will put his team into position to be able to win every game and you will always have hope (if not beat the snot out of the opponent).

As for Luck vs. Wilson, I think Cowherd made a fairly accurate comparison on his show yesterday of Manning vs. Brady and Luck vs. Wilson. That is a good place to be an no need to wring your hands in anxiety. I hope (and believe) Wilson will be like Brady in that argument as he will have more Lombardi trophies when it's all said and done.


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:10 pm 
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WilsonMVP wrote:
Bartmuley wrote:
WilsonMVP wrote:
Who is this clown on lucks nuts?

You want to see something that is REALLY pathetic for luck....here are the 8 common opponents from last year

Luck
197/364, 54.1% , 2573, 7.1 yards attempt, 14TD, 13INT 74.6 rating
115 rushing yards 1 TD, 3 lost fumbles

Wilson
137/213, 64.3%, 1742, 8.2 yards attempt, 17TD, 1INT, 114.4 rating
306 rushing yards 3TD, 2 lost fumbles


Oh and they also BOTH had 10 30+ yard passes so there goes your luck throws deep balls all over the place theory.

Ya man, I guess having 12 less INT, 3 more passing TD, 10% more accuracy and 39.8 more QB rating is "really close".

Also please tell me how Wilson "game manager" was able to tie the rookie record for TD passes which Manning held if he was "just a game manager" and he did it with WAY less attempts than luck.


Lol, you still don't get the concept of "different teams" buddy.

Luck was playing on a team tht was rebuilding and almost entirely new.

Wilson played on a good team, with vets, that needed a QB.

I keep telling you guys, context lol.

And Wilson was a game manager for most of last season, that's just a fact. The Seahawks relied on their D and run game. That's why he averaged (and still averages) less than 200 yards per game.

He's a good QB, but his role wasnt comparable to Lucks last season.

Calm down.


Ok but that is the best comparison you can do because they played the same teams. I would say Wilson was a game manager for the first part of the year but the last half of the year he certainly wasnt. And yards dont mean shit. The Seahawks are a run oriented team and also play close so unless they fall behind alot he probably wont be throwing alot, doesnt mean he is a game manager just because he doesnt have that many yards. If a team gets behind by 2 or more TDs they probably arent running the ball they are throwing it over and over.

Also you are basically saying there is no way to compare them so why are you here?


No, I didnt say there was no way to compare them, they're both QBs and they both win, but the fact, and its a fact, Luck played on a team that was starting over. Almost an expansion team. New GM, new coach, new system, new players.

Wilson came in to an established situation. The Seahawks had been rebuilding and were almost there when they drafted Wilson. Great D, great running game, already there.

Wilson is a good QB. He runs too much for me, I don't want my QB running unless they have to or if there is a wide open lane in front of them. QBs are too valuable, look at what happened to RG3 last year.

I've said about ten times why I'm here, I get a kick out of Seahawks fans reaction to the loss and their excuses for it.

Don't worry, I won't be here much longer. I just had the day off and am in North Dakota. You entertain yourself however you can in North Dakota.


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:47 pm 
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LotsOfLuck wrote:
DavidSeven wrote:
LotsOfLuck wrote:
BTW, Luck got his yards against a far superior defense than Wilson was facing.


That's cool. Wilson was only playing without his starting LT, RT, C, and TE, but I guess that doesn't matter. None of his receivers are on Reggie Wayne's level either. He was also playing on the road. But yeah, just ignore all that and manipulate the narrative how you want.


And Luck was without his starting TE (Allen) and working with his 3rd starting RB (Ballard, Bradshaw, Richardson) of the season in only the fifth game. We could sit here and do this all day.

Like I said earlier, after having gone through close to a decade of Manning/Brady talk, that's all silly debates like this come down to. People looking at selective items and pretending like it has more merit than other selective items that don't fit their agenda. But that's what ESPN has told us sports talk should look like so that how most of us engage in it anymore.



Actually, you can't because its a pretty dumb argument.

1) Ballard, Bradshaw, Richardson, even Donald Brown have been starting RBs in their careers.

You guys traded a 1st round pick for Richardson, who was the best RB talent of his draft.

2. Even without Allen, the team has Colby Fleener. Who been with Luck since Stanford.

Also the drop of from Allen to Fleener isn't the same from Miller, a pro bowler and one of, if not the best blocking TEs in the NFL to Willson, a 5th round rookie TE who was the 2nd TE taken from his school.

Don't act like missing 4/6 of your best O-Line group doesn't affect QB play. Let's not forget that this was our 2nd week of back to back 10 am starts.

If this game was at the Clink, Luck doesn't reach 150 yards and Wilson would have destroyed your defense for 450 total yards and like 4 TDs.

The problem here is the argument between Luck or Wilson and who is better. It is simply Colts fans dismissing the fact one player was a 1st round pick. One player is a 3rd round pick. One player has Reggie Wayne. The other player has Sidney Rice. One player is 6-4, 240 and runs a 4.6 40. The other player is 5-10, 205 with 4.5 speed. One player was handed the starting position in 2012. The other one had to earn it beating out not 1 but 2 other challengers.

One player has makes between 5-6 million. The other makes 500, 000-600,000 thousand.

Luck is doing exactly what he should be doing.

Wilson had defied every logical doubts over his short-comings and has earned everything given to him.

Wilson is better in every statistical category compared to Luck except for Passing Yardage and Turnovers.

Tell me again not who is better or will be better but who has been more amazing.

If you answer anything other than Wilson, you're lying to yourself.

Luck will be a great QB and he is already damn good. But most QBs, extremely talented or not, would have crumbled in Wilson's shoes. Even Luck.

Luck is a QB that comes along once or twice a decade. Wilson isn't born, he is created with hardwork, dedication, and the ability to shrug off doubts about his size to be a NFL QB.

In the 2012 draft who would have thought the 5'10 Wilson would go on to have the most success from that class. Everyone except for Russell Wilson, John Gruden, and John Schnieder probably. Wilson was told he wouldn't make it in the NFL, he even had that doubt when he chose to play baseball before going to Wisconsin.

Yet, here is Wilson, a franchise QB, on one of the best teams in the NFL. A QB who has outplayed the top two picks of the 2012 draft. A QB who was a 3rd round pick, whose meteoric rise led to the Seahawks netting a 5th round pick and a 7th round pick by trading their other QBs.

Wilson's overall net value + statistics trumps anything Luck or RG3 has done so far, if ever just so slightly. If you can't see that, then you're blind.

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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:56 pm 
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No sensible Colts fan can look at their careers to this point and honestly say Luck has been the better player.

Again, Luck was the anointed one coming out and hyped so much that people will always just naturally say Luck is better because ESPN told them so. When you actually look at their careers you see Luck really hasn't done anything to separate himself from Wilson. Russell Wilson put up better numbers in their final year of college and so far Wilson has better career NFL numbers than Luck. Wilson has consistently outperformed Luck. That's a fact.

Tell me why I should think Luck is better than Wilson? I've seen no argument for it thus far.


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:58 pm 
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So you give bonus points to Wilson because nobody expected anything of him coming out of college so he got to join a better team to start with?


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:00 pm 
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Moving this to the NFL forum.

In the main forum its time to start focusing on Tennessee.

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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:04 pm 
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LotsOfLuck wrote:
So you give bonus points to Wilson because nobody expected anything of him coming out of college so he got to join a better team to start with?


In 2011 I watched Tarvaris Jackson struggle mightily with basically the exact same team. Same RB, offensive line, TE and WR's that Wilson threw to in 2012.

The excuse that Wilson succeeded because he stepped into a great situation is weak. He raised the team to another level with his play, dominated the 2nd half of the season and right into the playoffs. Even though Seattle lost in the NFC division game to Atlanta, Russell Wilson flat out dominated that game once the team woke up.


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:05 pm 
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cesame wrote:
No sensible Colts fan can look at their careers to this point and honestly say Luck has been the better player.

Again, Luck was the anointed one coming out and hyped so much that people will always just naturally say Luck is better because ESPN told them so. When you actually look at their careers you see Luck really hasn't done anything to separate himself from Wilson. Russell Wilson put up better numbers in their final year of college and so far Wilson has better career NFL numbers than Luck. Wilson has consistently outperformed Luck. That's a fact.

Tell me why I should think Luck is better than Wilson? I've seen no argument for it thus far.


2-14

11-4


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:07 pm 
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coltsfan1405 wrote:
No no no in no way am I calling you irrational for loving your QB you would be if you didn't im just saying that you would be irrational for saying you wouldn't be happy with having luck also. And we kept manning for that long we can keep luck for that long as well


Nobody one can really make that judgment I agree.

We'll see who has the most rings at the end of their careers.


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:16 pm 
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2nd half of last season - "Game Manager" Russell Wilson

120 QB Rating
67% completion
16 TD
2 INT
1652 passing yards
9.0 Y/A
361 rushing yards


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:25 pm 
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LotsOfLuck wrote:
cesame wrote:
No sensible Colts fan can look at their careers to this point and honestly say Luck has been the better player.

Again, Luck was the anointed one coming out and hyped so much that people will always just naturally say Luck is better because ESPN told them so. When you actually look at their careers you see Luck really hasn't done anything to separate himself from Wilson. Russell Wilson put up better numbers in their final year of college and so far Wilson has better career NFL numbers than Luck. Wilson has consistently outperformed Luck. That's a fact.

Tell me why I should think Luck is better than Wilson? I've seen no argument for it thus far.


2-14

11-4


2009 14-2
2010 10-6
2011 2-14
2012 11-4

looks more like they couldn't handle having a bad QB more than anything. And yes I know they dumped a lot of their players, but that's not a team/program that had been tanking for years and rebuilding from actually nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:01 pm 
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lobohawk wrote:
LotsOfLuck wrote:
cesame wrote:
No sensible Colts fan can look at their careers to this point and honestly say Luck has been the better player.

Again, Luck was the anointed one coming out and hyped so much that people will always just naturally say Luck is better because ESPN told them so. When you actually look at their careers you see Luck really hasn't done anything to separate himself from Wilson. Russell Wilson put up better numbers in their final year of college and so far Wilson has better career NFL numbers than Luck. Wilson has consistently outperformed Luck. That's a fact.

Tell me why I should think Luck is better than Wilson? I've seen no argument for it thus far.


2-14

11-4


2009 14-2
2010 10-6
2011 2-14
2012 11-4

looks more like they couldn't handle having a bad QB more than anything. And yes I know they dumped a lot of their players, but that's not a team/program that had been tanking for years and rebuilding from actually nothing.


Tell that to the 38 million in dead cap space last year's team was built around because of all the players they let go so the team could rebuild.


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:02 pm 
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This makes me miss the Kap vs Wilson threads.

Irony...


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:08 pm 
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LotsOfLuck wrote:
cesame wrote:
No sensible Colts fan can look at their careers to this point and honestly say Luck has been the better player.

Again, Luck was the anointed one coming out and hyped so much that people will always just naturally say Luck is better because ESPN told them so. When you actually look at their careers you see Luck really hasn't done anything to separate himself from Wilson. Russell Wilson put up better numbers in their final year of college and so far Wilson has better career NFL numbers than Luck. Wilson has consistently outperformed Luck. That's a fact.

Tell me why I should think Luck is better than Wilson? I've seen no argument for it thus far.


2-14

11-4


And the Seahawks were a 7-9 team after going 2-6. They easily could have laid down and went 4-12 at best. But the young talent that had to step-up in the midst of about 15 or so injuries refused to be that team, they refused to be the Colts... who did everything in their power to flop the season as best they could.

And I'm glad the 2011 Seahawks refused to lay down because I rather have Irvin, Wagner, and Wilson than Ryan Tannehill.

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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:42 pm 
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Anyone who claims the Colts intentionally tanked 2011 pretty much proves they have no idea what they're talking about. Let's see. Clearly the owner, Jim Irsay, was not happy with the season as he fired the GM, the coaches, and then let go several well-paid veterans. Do you honestly believe these people were tanking and jeopardizing their careers so the team could attain a future benefit that most of them would not be around to see?

Let me guess they were tanking so badly that they were 0-13 and then won 2 games so that if they had won the last game of the season in Jacksonville they would not have ended up with #1 pick.

Finally, remember that we also had a fairly good QB that was coming back the next year had we not been in a position to draft Luck. Perhaps you've heard of him. His name is Peyton Manning. He was, and still is, a pretty big deal here in Indiana.

So congrats on being better than us in 2011. You had plenty of company. We sucked but it is pretty evident we didn't tank in an effort to get Luck. That's just what happens when you build your whole team around one great player and them remove that player from the equation. We're incredibly fortunate to have had Manning and then have Luck fall into our laps but it's not even questionable if we tanked.


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:46 am 
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No the team was pretty much all Peyton Manning. Everyone knew that, without him, no one put in the extra work to be competitive. And the Colts did a lot to repair the damage to move on, nope, that's why half the coaches and that team lost their jobs because their will to be a competitive team was lost the day it was announced that Manning wouldn't play that season.

Its just funny how you Colts fans assume the Seahawks would have been good in 2012. You Colts fans know nothing about the make-up of our team, only citing what little the media coverage talking heads gave us.

And that's all you have... Luck isn't the only reason you guys went 2-11 from 11-5, period. The Colts coaching staff and FO found cheap, solid options with better players at replacement level. But you guys still held onto your core of stellar veteran talent namely Reggie Wayne and the always underrated Robert Mathis. A player I wanted on the Seahawks so badly before he re-signed with the Colts. Antoine Bethea. Adam Vinerteri. Dwight Freeney. Antonio Johnson. Most those players are household names. You also kept a lot of your higher picks over the years as well.

Grabbing serviceable players in the draft like Canstanzo and Angerer in 2011. Hitting big on most of your 2012 draft with Luck, Fleener, Allen, Ballard, Hilton and winning a jackpot with Jerell Freeman, who is quietly has become one the best MLBs in the game after 1 year.

Not to mention you guys picked up a lot a cheaper veterans that are solid players that were high pick cast offs from other teams as teams tried to shed some cap:
Donnie Avery, Corry Redding, Samson Satele, Winston Justice, Matt McGlynn, Darius Butler, Trai Essex, Vontae Davis, Mewlewde Moore, Tony Hills, Justin King, and Tom Zbowski.

That 12 players the Colts signed or traded for that had 4 or more years of experience. Not a bad rag-tag group that would become a team behind Pagano's illness.

Quit acting like the Colts came out of nowhere, and that Luck is the only reason why they are winning games, they got a good group and had the right mixture of veteran talent going all out to earn a pay check and a right mixture of younger players trying to prove they belong in the league.

And quit acting like the 2011 Seahawks were vastly superior team to the Colts. The only reason the Seahawks were remotely competitive was because the young players who took over as injury replacement refused to drop dead. Tarvaris Jackson refused to give up, even with a Pec injury slowing him down.

The 2011 Seahawks weren't good but they were tough and they competed. 2011 Colts laid down , it had nothing to do with the Coaching, their team laid down because they knew they sucked without Manning and there was no use in trying. That's why they flopped it per say.

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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:15 am 
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Bartmuley wrote:
DTexHawk wrote:

If you read the post above mine, he was basing his argument on their "beginnings in the NFL" which equates to "entire careers".

I was breaking it down further to this year and trends.

So sorry that this confused you.


It didnt confuse me, it made me laugh.

"Entire career" for guys who have played about a season and a quarter?

"Entire career" lol.


With the average NFL career being about 3 - 3.5 seasons, 1.3 seasons isn't that far off.

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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:01 pm 
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Pandion Haliaetus wrote:
No the team was pretty much all Peyton Manning. Everyone knew that, without him, no one put in the extra work to be competitive. And the Colts did a lot to repair the damage to move on, nope, that's why half the coaches and that team lost their jobs because their will to be a competitive team was lost the day it was announced that Manning wouldn't play that season.

Its just funny how you Colts fans assume the Seahawks would have been good in 2012. You Colts fans know nothing about the make-up of our team, only citing what little the media coverage talking heads gave us.

And that's all you have... Luck isn't the only reason you guys went 2-11 from 11-5, period. The Colts coaching staff and FO found cheap, solid options with better players at replacement level. But you guys still held onto your core of stellar veteran talent namely Reggie Wayne and the always underrated Robert Mathis. A player I wanted on the Seahawks so badly before he re-signed with the Colts. Antoine Bethea. Adam Vinerteri. Dwight Freeney. Antonio Johnson. Most those players are household names. You also kept a lot of your higher picks over the years as well.

Grabbing serviceable players in the draft like Canstanzo and Angerer in 2011. Hitting big on most of your 2012 draft with Luck, Fleener, Allen, Ballard, Hilton and winning a jackpot with Jerell Freeman, who is quietly has become one the best MLBs in the game after 1 year.

Not to mention you guys picked up a lot a cheaper veterans that are solid players that were high pick cast offs from other teams as teams tried to shed some cap:
Donnie Avery, Corry Redding, Samson Satele, Winston Justice, Matt McGlynn, Darius Butler, Trai Essex, Vontae Davis, Mewlewde Moore, Tony Hills, Justin King, and Tom Zbowski.

That 12 players the Colts signed or traded for that had 4 or more years of experience. Not a bad rag-tag group that would become a team behind Pagano's illness.

Quit acting like the Colts came out of nowhere, and that Luck is the only reason why they are winning games, they got a good group and had the right mixture of veteran talent going all out to earn a pay check and a right mixture of younger players trying to prove they belong in the league.

And quit acting like the 2011 Seahawks were vastly superior team to the Colts. The only reason the Seahawks were remotely competitive was because the young players who took over as injury replacement refused to drop dead. Tarvaris Jackson refused to give up, even with a Pec injury slowing him down.

The 2011 Seahawks weren't good but they were tough and they competed. 2011 Colts laid down , it had nothing to do with the Coaching, their team laid down because they knew they sucked without Manning and there was no use in trying. That's why they flopped it per say.


As I showed earlier, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to Luck and the Colts. Nobody here said the turn around was 100% Luck, but he was a huge, essential part of it. Your attempts to minimize it are admirable but silly.

Furthermore, you're pretty much admitting I was right about the Colts being built around Manning and sucking without him. In other words, the organization didn't tank to get Luck. They just were built around one essential player that they lost and were horrible without him. Your theory, that all the other players just laid down and quit, is another silly notion that doesn't hold water. Veterans like Kerry Collins, Dwight Freeney and Dallas Clark didn't gain their stature by quitting. Other players like Curtis Painter and Joseph Addai needed to perform to keep their contracts or earn new ones. They weren't laying down with their NFL careers on the line.

Like I said before, congrats on being better than the 2011 Colts. You had 30 other teams as company.


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:44 pm 
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DavidSeven wrote:
My thoughts: Russell Wilson is Pete Carroll's dream QB.

He's a guy who can play behind a run-oriented line because of his ability to scramble, and he doesn't have to throw the ball away when pressured. He can also complete "explosive" passes and protects the ball with his life. Pete Carroll's entire philosophy is built around three things: 1) protect the football; 2) establish the run; and 3) hit on explosive passes. Russell's unique skill set plays into all three of these things.

Do you guys think it's a coincidence that PC just signed a Russell Wilson clone to be his back-up? An elusive, cannon-armed, ball-protecting QB is the guy Carroll has looked for his entire coaching career, even if he didn't realize it until Russell came along.

It's not just the on-field stuff either. Their personalities and approach mesh so perfectly.

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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:49 am 
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Only on a Seahawks forum would anyone legitimately try to argue that Russell Wilson is better than Andrew Luck


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:25 am 
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drastik wrote:
Only on a Seahawks forum would anyone legitimately try to argue that Russell Wilson is better than Andrew Luck


Your team, the Redskins, are in 3rd place in a division where the best record is 2-3. Shouldn't you be more focused on that rather than the qb of a team you won't face this year.


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:51 pm 
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bigtrain21 wrote:
drastik wrote:
Only on a Seahawks forum would anyone legitimately try to argue that Russell Wilson is better than Andrew Luck


Your team, the Redskins, are in 3rd place in a division where the best record is 2-3. Shouldn't you be more focused on that rather than the qb of a team you won't face this year.

What is there to focus on?


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:09 pm 
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drastik wrote:
bigtrain21 wrote:
drastik wrote:
Only on a Seahawks forum would anyone legitimately try to argue that Russell Wilson is better than Andrew Luck


Your team, the Redskins, are in 3rd place in a division where the best record is 2-3. Shouldn't you be more focused on that rather than the qb of a team you won't face this year.

What is there to focus on?


The stats clearly show that Wilson has been the better player thus far in their careers.

I'm waiting for the evidence that shows Luck is clearly better than Wilson. Right now it's just hype.


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 Post subject: Re: Russell Wilson v. Andrew Luck
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:09 am 
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cesame wrote:
drastik wrote:
bigtrain21 wrote:
drastik wrote:
Only on a Seahawks forum would anyone legitimately try to argue that Russell Wilson is better than Andrew Luck


Your team, the Redskins, are in 3rd place in a division where the best record is 2-3. Shouldn't you be more focused on that rather than the qb of a team you won't face this year.

What is there to focus on?


The stats clearly show that Wilson has been the better player thus far in their careers.

I'm waiting for the evidence that shows Luck is clearly better than Wilson. Right now it's just hype.


isnt it obvious. Stats be damned, the Colts were a worse team obviously so that means luck is better than Wilson...dont you know that?

Even though alot of NFL fans think our WRs and TEs suck and none of them are #1 WRs or Allstars. Tired of this freaking argument. Can we just wait until the season is over before talking about it please.


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