Tanking

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Tanking
Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:39 am
  • I keep hearing all this talk about teams tanking. Is there some can't miss prospect that I am missing that everyone feels is going to be key to a huge turnaround?

    Bridgewater looks solid, and worth a risk but certainly not worth tanking a season in a Suck for Luck type campaign. To be honest, while Bridgewater looks like a stud - you are taking almost the same risk and getting almost the same upside with that kid from Clemson. Because someone is contributing to Clemson looking like a strong team when it hasn't sniffed the top of the polls for a while.

    Manz looks like he could be very good but also could implode the moment he got here. Generally guys that have a hard time with the bright lights of scrutiny while in college have a real problem once millions of dollars and hundreds of new distractions get thrust their way.

    Clowney is probably both over and underrated. I think people underestimate his actual ability when projecting to the NFL and I think he makes a big impact in the NFL, but I just don't think it makes a big enough impact because no matter how good a defensive player is - they don't make the difference that even an above average QB makes. Remember how good the Freak (Kearse) and Suh might be one of the most dominant DL coming out of college in a decade. It still took a lot of time and new players to make those teams into contenders.

    All in all it looks like a pretty standard draft, I don't really see some cannot miss world-beater that justifies the possible danger of cheapening the value of your franchise to your fans. Because if you tank for someone, get them, and then do not improve measurably - then you just start having fans lose interest.

    Is there someone I am just missing?

    (Maybe the Gurley kid from GA, who looks like the next Lynch but RBs rarely are worth high 1sts anyway because of all the rules which favor the passing game.)
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Re: Tanking
Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:44 am
  • I'm not convinced any team is tanking this year as of right now. It sure looks that way on the surface with the trades that Cleveland and Miami are doing, but there isn't sufficient evidence at present, IMO. As far as next year's prospects, I'm clueless. I purposely avoid college ball and don't follow it in any way.
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    RolandDeschain
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Re: Tanking
Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:36 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Clowney is probably both over and underrated. I think people underestimate his actual ability when projecting to the NFL and I think he makes a big impact in the NFL, but I just don't think it makes a big enough impact because no matter how good a defensive player is - they don't make the difference that even an above average QB makes.

    If Clowney fails to go #1 overall then he is underrated. If the Browns indeed traded Richardson in order to tank the season, which is questionable, I think there is a high probability that Clowney was their target, not Bridgewater. It has been proven that you can win the Super Bowl with great defenses and merely above average QBs - Ravens, Bucs, Giants, Steelers etc. Clowney would push that Browns defense toward elite. Mingo/ Hayden /Kruger/ Sheard / Phil Taylor / Clowney / TJ Ward. If they added some decent skill players I could see them in the hunt with a competent point guard style QB.

    Clowney is a once in a generation specimen at that position. You can maybe question his motor but his meaurables are insane. Bridgewater is a nice player but his upside is dwarfed by Clowney's IMO. But, hey, it's the NFL draft. Who knows? Still, philosophically, I take the phenom DE over the promising QB most years.
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Re: Tanking
Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:43 pm
  • This conspiracy theory has been going on for as long as I can recall. I'm sure someone can point to a time where the supposed tanking team did so without question, but I can't bring one in. Without resorting to exhaustive research, I more recall times when I felt a team was talking, only to see them fight hard for the W in a season finale, and disqualifying themselves for the right to pick #1. I think this whole idea of tanking, while in some instances perhaps not a bad idea, is actually the stuff of urban legend.

    Suck for Luck? Damn, look at the QB situation in Indy while Manning was inactive. OTOH, that could have actually been played well by Indy...put in a scrub, play hard for the cameras, but know the scrub (Painter?) will lose. That said, I suppose there is more than 1 way to tank, but I've yet to witness a definite case of it. I don't think the league has either, or I'm sure there would be serious consequences (like giving up your 1st rd pick in the draft). Risky business. Thinks me.
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Re: Tanking
Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:47 pm
  • Thunderhawk wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:Clowney is probably both over and underrated. I think people underestimate his actual ability when projecting to the NFL and I think he makes a big impact in the NFL, but I just don't think it makes a big enough impact because no matter how good a defensive player is - they don't make the difference that even an above average QB makes.

    If Clowney fails to go #1 overall then he is underrated. If the Browns indeed traded Richardson in order to tank the season, which is questionable, I think there is a high probability that Clowney was their target, not Bridgewater. It has been proven that you can win the Super Bowl with great defenses and merely above average QBs - Ravens, Bucs, Giants, Steelers etc. Clowney would push that Browns defense toward elite. Mingo/ Hayden /Kruger/ Sheard / Phil Taylor / Clowney / TJ Ward. If they added some decent skill players I could see them in the hunt with a competent point guard style QB.

    Clowney is a once in a generation specimen at that position. You can maybe question his motor but his meaurables are insane. Bridgewater is a nice player but his upside is dwarfed by Clowney's IMO. But, hey, it's the NFL draft. Who knows? Still, philosophically, I take the phenom DE over the promising QB most years.


    To my knowledge, Clowney's not even burning it up at the NCAA level. He won't be the 1st pick with that stigma. I think the kid has mad talent, but I also think he got the big head going. The NFL is not very forgiving with such players, knowing that head isn't likely to get any smaller once the bucks and endorsements come pouring in.
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Re: Tanking
Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:57 am
  • Clowney to me will have a lot of baggage, and I'm not sure teams these day's want to put up with the circus that goes along with it.. of course their is always the Patriots who will put any type of spin to justify it.
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Re: Tanking
Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:02 am
  • Bobblehead wrote:Clowney to me will have a lot of baggage, and I'm not sure teams these day's want to put up with the circus that goes along with it.. of course their is always the Patriots who will put any type of spin to justify it.

    Get back to me when the dude runs a 4.5 at 6'6" 280lbs. Clowney could have an entire LaGuardia carousel of baggage and still go first overall. He had 13 sacks last year in the SEC. He is probably coasting a bit this year trying to protect himself so he doesn't lose out on a $40 million payday. NFL GMs will account for that.

    If teams really are tanking he's probably the reason.
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Re: Tanking
Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:44 pm
  • Thunderhawk wrote:
    Bobblehead wrote:Clowney to me will have a lot of baggage, and I'm not sure teams these day's want to put up with the circus that goes along with it.. of course their is always the Patriots who will put any type of spin to justify it.

    Get back to me when the dude runs a 4.5 at 6'6" 280lbs. Clowney could have an entire LaGuardia carousel of baggage and still go first overall. He had 13 sacks last year in the SEC. He is probably coasting a bit this year trying to protect himself so he doesn't lose out on a $40 million payday. NFL GMs will account for that.

    If teams really are tanking he's probably the reason.


    So your belief is that an NFL team will tank...in order to select a player that you believe is also tanking?

    I think what you are suggesting is absolute madness. SC will likely be 10-1 when they host Clemson (with their only loss to Georgia). It is not unreasonable to think there is a possibility, albeit slim, that SC could end up playing for the title. Anything short of the Natty will be failure in Spurrier's world. I sincerely doubt he's putting anyone on the field that is "coasting" or conserving themselves for the next level.

    Spurrier, the pud that he is, has very long arms and can be a not so pleasant individual. IF Clowney is doing what you're suggesting, it will not serve him well. At this rate, Clowney will not be #1...he can run a 4.2 and not go #1. Please point to another example where a player did what you are suggesting.

    And where are you getting this notion that he's looking at $40 mil? Do you actually believe this "coasting", non-QB Clowney will get double the deal Andrew Luck got? Are you related to Clowney by chance?
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Re: Tanking
Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:49 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:I'm not convinced any team is tanking this year as of right now. It sure looks that way on the surface with the trades that Cleveland and Miami are doing, but there isn't sufficient evidence at present, IMO. As far as next year's prospects, I'm clueless. I purposely avoid college ball and don't follow it in any way.


    Am I missing something? Who has accused Miami of tanking? They just lost their first game and don't recall them making any trades.
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Re: Tanking
Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:58 pm
  • Seanhawk wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:I'm not convinced any team is tanking this year as of right now. It sure looks that way on the surface with the trades that Cleveland and Miami are doing, but there isn't sufficient evidence at present, IMO. As far as next year's prospects, I'm clueless. I purposely avoid college ball and don't follow it in any way.


    Am I missing something? Who has accused Miami of tanking? They just lost their first game and don't recall them making any trades.



    I assume he meant Jacksonville. They suck and traded their starting LT.
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