Surprised by the opinions here after that huge game he had, albeit against the Vikings crap CBs (he's a match up problem against most corners though). It will be interesting to revisit this thread at the end of the year. I say he is a young T.O. in terms of pure talent and the off field stuff is overblown. We'll see.

Also, Gordon would not affect our cap much since we would only be dinged on his base salary which is about 1M a year. He wouldn't even be eligible for free agency until 2016. Meanwhile, Rice is scheduled to make 8.5M next year

I doubt Gordon gets traded now, anyway. If the Browns do trade him they'll demand a 2nd rounder minimum. If I were Baalke/Harbaugh I would be on the phone with Lombardi immediately. They have plenty of picks to deal and are desperate to help Kaep.

Josh Gordon? No way. There's enough buried talent at the WR position. Once Rice is released next year, Chop Chop/Williams can step up.

I would trade for Gordon in a heartbeat. He's got two cheap years left after this season, he's got #1 WR talent and has some production on a miserable offense. You'd probably have to punt Stephen Williams to make it happen, but so what? Seattle is pretty likely to lose Rice and/or Tate next offseason, it's possible that Baldwin could get traded as well (RFA).

He's one strike away from a 1 year suspension, but that seems like a good motivating factor to stay out of trouble, no? Pete's guys have been in the news for PEDs, but much less so for off the field infractions.

I was a big fan of Gordon in college, and I'm not surprised by his success. If we got him, he could easily be our top WR within a year or two.

This situation reminds me of Marshawn Lynch a few years ago. A young, blue chip talent available because of off-the-field concerns who turned into a bargain buy. If I was NE or SF, I'd call Lombardi and force him to trade Gordon or hang up on me.

Seattle is not done drafting WRs. If they lose Rice and Tate and even Baldwin next offseason, then they'll suddenly be in a position of need. Seattle needs to get cheaper at WR. The way to do that is by drafting them, WR is one of the most bust-prone positions in the draft and even the good ones take time to acclimate. Gordon has already proven he's a very good WR and could be fully acclimated by next season. I'm not saying this trade SHOULD happen, but I think it makes a ton more sense than the Harvin deal. If JS got Gordon for a 2nd rounder (a pick that will probably be in the late 50s or early 60s), I'd consider it a win, because the odds are pretty good Seattle will spend a high pick on WR next year anyway to get cheaper at the position.

I would love for this trade to happen for us. At his current salary, it's worth taking the risk against him getting suspended for a year. He would be a cheap upgrade over Sidney Rice, too.

I am happy with our team the way it is.

Largent80 wrote:I am happy with our team the way it is.

Now this, I don't agree with.

Content with the team leads to stagnation. Stagnation leads to decline in talent. Decline in talent leads to losing. Losing leads to suffering.

-A well-known Jedi Master.

It'd be a waste IMO and certainly not worth the draft capital the Browns would want in exchange for him. I think he's a very promising player and the Browns would be fools to trade him, but he'd be "just a guy" on this team. The fact is, we don't throw it very much, and I'm almost convinced we never will with Pete's run-first philosophy and Russell's obsession with avoiding turnovers. Russell will almost always scramble before making a 50/50 throw. We'll be at or near the bottom of the league in attempts for a long time, which I don't mind at all. However, that means a guy like Gordon, who would get 3-5 targets a game here, really isn't going to help us as much as he would help other teams.

FYI, Gordon had nearly double the targets Rice had last year and finished with roughly the same yardage.

Well if you aren't happy with the team, you can jump to the 9ers, they have a lot more room this week for newbies.

You think Sids catch Sunday was anything but spectacular that this dude could do better?

Largent, I'm very happy with our team; but you have to always be looking for ways to improve. Always.

Really?....So you think we are ok on the O-Line?

And that we need a receiver more than a good tackle?

Breno is hurt and Okung is out. We have rookie backups.

And yet we traded our first round pick for a WR when we had Tate, Rice and Baldwin and spent our second on a running back when we have Lynch and Turbin.


2 of our starting O-Linemen were picked up midseason off waivers, another was an undrafted free agent.

Gordon had more yards last season than any Seattle WR has had in the last 4 years - as a rookie playing for the Browns.

themunn wrote:And yet we traded our first round pick for a WR when we had Tate, Rice and Baldwin and spent our second on a running back when we have Lynch and Turbin.


2 of our starting O-Linemen were picked up midseason off waivers, another was an undrafted free agent.

Gordon had more yards last season than any Seattle WR has had in the last 4 years - as a rookie playing for the Browns.

Again, he got twice as many targets as Rice and barely surpassed him in overall yards. Gordon's catch rate according to Football Outsiders last year was 53%. Rice's was 62%; Tate was at 69%. We traded a #1 for Harvin because he's a dynamic and unique player in this league. He has value as a receiver, runner and returner. I think Gordon is a good player, but he's not a unique one.

2012 FO Adjusted WR rankings: Rice #14, Tate #19, Gordon #51.

To any team I think Gordon's worth at least a 2nd round pick and if it took that to get him I'd make the move. As mentioned above, this team is spending a good amount of money on its receivers, now, to the point where it's digging into other players contract to afford both Rice and Harvin, let alone re-sign Tate. A trade of a 2nd rd pick now for #1 receiver upside is a smart forward-thinking draft move, imo, if you believe that either Rice or Tate won't be here next year. I'd be surprised, though, if another more needy team doesn't cough up more than the Hawks do (If the Browns even trade him.)

DavidSeven wrote:

themunn wrote:And yet we traded our first round pick for a WR when we had Tate, Rice and Baldwin and spent our second on a running back when we have Lynch and Turbin.


2 of our starting O-Linemen were picked up midseason off waivers, another was an undrafted free agent.

Gordon had more yards last season than any Seattle WR has had in the last 4 years - as a rookie playing for the Browns.

Again, he got twice as many targets as Rice and barely surpassed him in overall yards. Gordon's catch rate according to Football Outsiders last year was 53%. Rice's was 62%; Tate was at 69%. We traded a #1 for Harvin because he's a dynamic and unique player in this league. He has value as a receiver, runner and returner. I think Gordon is a good player, but he's not a unique one.

2012 FO Adjusted WR rankings: Rice #14, Tate #19, Gordon #51.

Wasn't Fitzgerald like 100th on that list?

If Gordon was in the hawks, he would also be up there in efficiency/ranking. It's how the team plays.

Keep in mind if you trade for Gordon now, you're not just losing a draft pick. You're losing a roster spot, too. Thus, I think you're really giving up a 2nd rounder and Stephen Williams for Gordon since there's no way Seattle carries 7 WRs.

DavidSeven wrote:Keep in mind if you trade for Gordon now, you're not just losing a draft pick. You're losing a roster spot, too. Thus, I think you're really giving up a 2nd rounder and Stephen Williams for Gordon since there's no way Seattle carries 7 WRs.

We have an open spot now, and kearse has an ankle injury. Also, lbh, Stephen Williams is not a big deal.

There is no way Gordon is worth a second round pick.

Coug_Hawk08 wrote:

DavidSeven wrote:Keep in mind if you trade for Gordon now, you're not just losing a draft pick. You're losing a roster spot, too. Thus, I think you're really giving up a 2nd rounder and Stephen Williams for Gordon since there's no way Seattle carries 7 WRs.

We have an open spot now, and kearse has an ankle injury. Also, lbh, Stephen Williams is not a big deal.

There is no way Gordon is worth a second round pick.

That open spot is going to be filled by Bruce Irvin next week and Kearse isn't going on IR. Not saying Williams is a world-beater, but if the Niners claimed him off waivers, he'd immediately be their second best receiver at minimum.

I think Cleveland will want at least a second for Gordon. He's a second year player who was taken in the second round and outperformed his draft position. Character is the only thing that might devalue him a bit.

DavidSeven wrote:

Coug_Hawk08 wrote:

DavidSeven wrote:Keep in mind if you trade for Gordon now, you're not just losing a draft pick. You're losing a roster spot, too. Thus, I think you're really giving up a 2nd rounder and Stephen Williams for Gordon since there's no way Seattle carries 7 WRs.

We have an open spot now, and kearse has an ankle injury. Also, lbh, Stephen Williams is not a big deal.

There is no way Gordon is worth a second round pick.

That open spot is going to be filled by Bruce Irvin next week and Kearse isn't going on IR. Not saying Williams is a world-beater, but if the Niners claimed him off waivers, he'd immediately be their second best receiver at minimum.

I think Cleveland will want at least a second for Gordon. He's a second year player who was taken in the second round and outperformed his draft position. Character is the only thing that might devalue him a bit.

Why are we always worried about niners picking up our scraps? Our 5th guy is their first or second best option? Good. Wouldn't worry me in the slightest, he is not very good receiver.

Their GM would do very well to get a second. You are downplaying the fact that he has one strike left and he is out for an entire season. In addition, they are trying to dump him, pretty rare you get face value back for vet players. They got way below on the Richardson trade.

DavidSeven wrote:Keep in mind if you trade for Gordon now, you're not just losing a draft pick. You're losing a roster spot, too. Thus, I think you're really giving up a 2nd rounder and Stephen Williams for Gordon since there's no way Seattle carries 7 WRs.

Point taken, but if we're only keeping 5 now, there's a chance Williams will be released anyway to make room for Harvin when he returns so it more like we're just losing him for the next 6 games (Or whoever else at another position). Considering his playing time now, it isn't as much of a lose in addition to the draft pick.

Coug_Hawk08 wrote:
Why are we always worried about niners picking up our scraps? Our 5th guy is their first or second best option? Good. Wouldn't worry me in the slightest, he is not very good receiver.

Their GM would do very well to get a second. You are downplaying the fact that he has one strike left and he is out for an entire season. In addition, they are trying to dump him, pretty rare you get face value back for vet players. They got way below on the Richardson trade.

I don't care who the Niners pick up. It's merely a demonstration that just because he's #5 or #6 on our depth chart, doesn't mean he's a worthless player. I think he's an NFL caliber WR, but you're free to disagree.

What do you base your idea that he's not a good WR on? He's been targeted twice this season. Drew a PI on one play and arguably dropped a 40-50 yard bomb that was difficult to catch on the other. He lit it up in the preseason (which I know doesn't mean much but it's all we're going on now).

Cleveland used a 1st on Richardson and got a 1st in return. Yes, it's unlikely to be as high as a third overall pick, but Richardson has also underperformed his draft position. Not true of Gordon.

DavidSeven wrote:

Coug_Hawk08 wrote:
Why are we always worried about niners picking up our scraps? Our 5th guy is their first or second best option? Good. Wouldn't worry me in the slightest, he is not very good receiver.

Their GM would do very well to get a second. You are downplaying the fact that he has one strike left and he is out for an entire season. In addition, they are trying to dump him, pretty rare you get face value back for vet players. They got way below on the Richardson trade.

I don't care who the Niners pick up. It's merely a demonstration that just because he's #5 or #6 on our depth chart, doesn't mean he's a worthless player. I think he's an NFL caliber WR, but you're free to disagree.

What do you base your idea that he's not a good WR on? He's been targeted twice this season. Drew a PI on one play and arguably dropped a 40-50 yard bomb that was difficult to catch on the other. He lit it up in the preseason (which I know doesn't mean much but it's all we're going on now).

Cleveland used a 1st on Richardson and got a 1st in return. Yes, it's unlikely to be as high as a third overall pick, but Richardson has also underperformed his draft position. Not true of Gordon.

Williams has never been a starter, or anything close to it. Always talked about in camp/preseason, but nothing in regular season. He doesn't play teams, and dude is now 27. He has done nothing that makes himself stand out as even a good nfl receiver. He drew a PI and dropped a pass? *golf clap*

I don't buy the 2nd rounder at all. Guess we will have to see.

Largent80 wrote:Really?....So you think we are ok on the O-Line?

And that we need a receiver more than a good tackle?

Breno is hurt and Okung is out. We have rookie backups.

Was hoping to see a Roland response.

In lieu of that, I would just like to ask the usual... What sweet OL are available? Not that I know anything about them, other than their apparent rarity.

I would love the idea of having Gordon, he's big, fast and all the other explatives that you all have mentioned, but as much as I love the idea, I don't think it would work.

We have bigger issues at hand, OL to be specific, and adding another WR, to the corp I'm afraid would send a wrong message to our existing receivers, mainly that they're not good enough. Yeah I believe he would step up our receivers but at the same time it's a backhanded way to say that we need help here, when again, we really need help there. In the back of my mind, I would be afraid that the team concept, will be lost to the "me" mentality, since PC obviously doesn't think our receivers can do the job.


I maybe wrong, but just throwing another angle out

DavidSeven wrote:

themunn wrote:And yet we traded our first round pick for a WR when we had Tate, Rice and Baldwin and spent our second on a running back when we have Lynch and Turbin.


2 of our starting O-Linemen were picked up midseason off waivers, another was an undrafted free agent.

Gordon had more yards last season than any Seattle WR has had in the last 4 years - as a rookie playing for the Browns.

Again, he got twice as many targets as Rice and barely surpassed him in overall yards. Gordon's catch rate according to Football Outsiders last year was 53%. Rice's was 62%; Tate was at 69%. We traded a #1 for Harvin because he's a dynamic and unique player in this league. He has value as a receiver, runner and returner. I think Gordon is a good player, but he's not a unique one.

2012 FO Adjusted WR rankings: Rice #14, Tate #19, Gordon #51.

I like what you are trying to do here, but you are overlooking something of critical importance. Context. Rookie WRs, even ones who turn out to be very good, usually suck as rookies. Gordon put up some of the best rookie numbers from a WR we've seen in the last few years, while catching passes in one of the NFL's worst offenses, whereas Tate and Rice are polished veterans catching passes from the NFL's 4th ranked QB in passer rating.

I watched Gordon in college and I knew back then that he had #1 WR talent. When Cleveland paid a high 2nd rounder to get him in the suppletmental draft, a lot of people bashed them for it. Not me. Personally, I think they are completely nuts to trade a talent like Gordon for anything less than a 1st. If they'd part with him for a 3rd rounder, on that contract, ANY team should want to be on the buying side of that deal.

Also, as much as I'd love to be wrong, I think one or both of Rice and Tate could be gone next offseason. It's very possible we might end up investing a high pick on a WR next year anyway, and if that's the case, I'd much rather roll with Gordon than potentially than an unproven rookie who probably wouldn't contribute for a couple years. WRs are one of the highest bust-rate positions in the game too, so if you can get a good one from outside the draft, you should always go that route first, which is why PC/JS have been so aggressive pursuing WRs from other teams.

Go look up Megatron's rookie numbers. They are pretty low.

Josh Gordon is exactly what Pete tried to get with Jackson and Marshall, though their respective clubs ended up wanting too much. Yes he is one strike from suspension. It is a factor, and would dramatically affect compensation, and any contract he signs would have clauses.

Whether anyone likes him or not, he is the player prototype Pete is looking for, and has been looking for.

Scottemojo wrote:Go look up Megatron's rookie numbers. They are pretty low.

Josh Gordon is exactly what Pete tried to get with Jackson and Marshall, though their respective clubs ended up wanting too much. Yes he is one strike from suspension. It is a factor, and would dramatically affect compensation, and any contract he signs would have clauses.

Whether anyone likes him or not, he is the player prototype Pete is looking for, and has been looking for.

Not that I disagree with you, but if this is the case, why didn't the Seahawks put a claim on him in the supp. draft? Yes, he went for a high 2nd, but I don't believe anyone else put a claim in on him.

Dtowers wrote:

Scottemojo wrote:Go look up Megatron's rookie numbers. They are pretty low.

Josh Gordon is exactly what Pete tried to get with Jackson and Marshall, though their respective clubs ended up wanting too much. Yes he is one strike from suspension. It is a factor, and would dramatically affect compensation, and any contract he signs would have clauses.

Whether anyone likes him or not, he is the player prototype Pete is looking for, and has been looking for.

Not that I disagree with you, but if this is the case, why didn't the Seahawks put a claim on him in the supp. draft? Yes, he went for a high 2nd, but I don't believe anyone else put a claim in on him.

No one else put in a first round claim on him, but the Browns had the second pick of the second round, and used it on Gordon. Considering his issues, nobody spending a first on him was valid. Only one team passed on him in the second, the Bills. It works more like waiver claims anyway, but I don't know if there is a way to tell what others were willing to spend.

I watched the last Cleveland game, the man is a beast. Think Brandon Marshall/TO. I honestly do not know enough about what got him suspended, but a complete aversion to risk is not a hallmark of this group in Seattle now. How many of Seattle's fans were on board with Marshawn Lynch at first? He had plenty of baggage, that worked out well.

I'd be on board if a 4th next draft and a 5th the year after with conditions that void the 5th if Gordon gets suspended for a year for a second violation could get it done. Seattle is a team that could weather a year suspension if that happened, the upside is he doesn't get suspended and produces at a pro-bowl level. Pretty risky but hey, maybe paring him with this locker room can keep him in line. Of course with Browner and Irvin recently having trouble I could see us avoiding this situation.

I just can't help thinking about Gordon, Tate, Harvin, Rice, and Baldwin when we go 5 wide. Crap that sounds sick.

Question I must be in a hole but i admit I do not know much about Gordon. IF and big IF how would he fit in my Niners system. We a desperate for a #1 WR can he be that if he grows up???

Sound quality sucks, but great highlights

Dtowers wrote:

Scottemojo wrote:Go look up Megatron's rookie numbers. They are pretty low.

Josh Gordon is exactly what Pete tried to get with Jackson and Marshall, though their respective clubs ended up wanting too much. Yes he is one strike from suspension. It is a factor, and would dramatically affect compensation, and any contract he signs would have clauses.

Whether anyone likes him or not, he is the player prototype Pete is looking for, and has been looking for.

Not that I disagree with you, but if this is the case, why didn't the Seahawks put a claim on him in the supp. draft? Yes, he went for a high 2nd, but I don't believe anyone else put a claim in on him.

There was talk at the time that Seattle might put a 2nd or 3rd round claim on him. It didn't matter once the Browns put in their 2nd round claim. It doesn't mean no other teams put claims on him, the Browns just had the highest claim.

Scottemojo wrote:Sound quality sucks, but great highlights

Thanks Scott. wow the dudes a game changer for sure

I know. Any Niner fan should be begging Baalke to do this, it isn't like the Niners need the picks next year.

Man it would help for sure. We dont have crap now. Boldin No #1 vernon not enough. Mario #3 at best when healthy and Crabtree who know how he will come back.

rlkats wrote:Man it would help for sure. We dont have crap now. Boldin No #1 vernon not enough. Mario #3 at best when healthy and Crabtree who know how he will come back.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want that to happen...I like the Niners just the way they are

Scottemojo wrote:

rlkats wrote:Man it would help for sure. We dont have crap now. Boldin No #1 vernon not enough. Mario #3 at best when healthy and Crabtree who know how he will come back.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want that to happen...I like the Niners just the way they are

LOL im sure you do. We have to at least make it interesting HAHA. God would be nice

What I like about him: big target, unafraid of the middle of the field, above-average YAC ability, hard to tackle.

What I'm "meh" on: all the catches on his reel are pretty pedestrian (everything he caught was thrown near his body, no high pointing, no leaping grabs, no toe-tapping, etc.) There isn't a single catch on his tape where he actually made a play on the ball. This probably accounts for his low catch-rate / yards per target ratio. Compare this to catches that even guys like Kearse/Williams were making in the pre-season.

I do agree that he's a talent and that he fits the Mike Williams mold that Pete's always been after. My main point is that I question how much our offense will utilize him given i's offensive identity and Russell's reluctance to toss it around. Bevell had very little use for Mike Williams in his play-action/deep pass offense. I don't think we get as much value out of the player as other teams would.

I don't think the Browns are in a real hurry, they will with out doubt build up the desperation of teams like the Pats and Niners, where they are almost forced to make a deal.

Browns want draft choices and plenty of them me thinks.

Maybe we can lend them JS for some drafting tips as a trade concession.

oh, and I'd rather not see him on the 49ers, like someone said, like the 9ers the way they are and will like them even better at 1-4

rlkats wrote:Question I must be in a hole but i admit I do not know much about Gordon. IF and big IF how would he fit in my Niners system. We a desperate for a #1 WR can he be that if he grows up???

That's my question also. It isn't like Harvin won't be back between 3-7 weeks and him alone will transform the offense given the players around him and more importantly, the quarterback at the controls going forward for years forward? A quarterback rating of 109ish while basically sucking half the time? Really? Seriously?

The NFL isn't MLB there's a real salary cap and harsh roster limitations, we can't have every good player similar to elite baseball teams. At some point the 49ers will have the opportunity to get that good WR if they're willing to pay the seller's price.

Coug_Hawk08 wrote:Why are we always worried about niners picking up our scraps? Our 5th guy is their first or second best option?

Williams is a 27 year old UFA who is coming off of a concussion and hasn't caught a regular season pass three seasons seasons. All fans of course over-value the folks at the bottom of their bench who looked good against players who aren't playing in the NFL in the pre-season, but Williams makes Jon Baldwin, Kyle Williams, Quinton Patton and even Marlon Moore look like studs in comparison.

Don't think anyone needs to worry about cutting the guy.

Scottemojo wrote:Go look up Megatron's rookie numbers. They are pretty low.

Josh Gordon is exactly what Pete tried to get with Jackson and Marshall, though their respective clubs ended up wanting too much. Yes he is one strike from suspension. It is a factor, and would dramatically affect compensation, and any contract he signs would have clauses.

Whether anyone likes him or not, he is the player prototype Pete is looking for, and has been looking for.

Good comps. AJ Green is the guy he reminds me of. Very similar body type, hands, strength/toughness, and knack for earning targets. Like Green, his game seems "bland" to the untrained eye, but you watch him closely and you see that play after play after play he's proving to be too much to handle for defensive backs.

The only reason Lombardi is shopping this guy is because he will do whatever it takes to get Johnny Football. 1 strike or no, there is no sane reason to trade a talent like Gordon (unless there is something scary they know that we don't).

It makes me incredibly nervous knowing that Gordon is out there for the taking. I don't think much of Baalke, but he would have to be a complete idiot not to roll the dice on Gordon.

I would give up the 32nd pick for him right now.

DavidSeven wrote:

themunn wrote:And yet we traded our first round pick for a WR when we had Tate, Rice and Baldwin and spent our second on a running back when we have Lynch and Turbin.


2 of our starting O-Linemen were picked up midseason off waivers, another was an undrafted free agent.

Gordon had more yards last season than any Seattle WR has had in the last 4 years - as a rookie playing for the Browns.

Again, he got twice as many targets as Rice and barely surpassed him in overall yards. Gordon's catch rate according to Football Outsiders last year was 53%. Rice's was 62%; Tate was at 69%. We traded a #1 for Harvin because he's a dynamic and unique player in this league. He has value as a receiver, runner and returner. I think Gordon is a good player, but he's not a unique one.

2012 FO Adjusted WR rankings: Rice #14, Tate #19, Gordon #51.

FO say themselves on the rankings page, "We cannot yet fully separate the performance of a receiver from the performance of his quarterback. Be aware that one will affect the other."
So unless you want to say Brandon Weeden (who was ranked below all but the following QBs in 2012: Sanchez, Lindley, Skelton, Quinn Cassell), is equal to Russell Wilson, of course his DYOA will be lower.
And furthermore, defenses didn't have to account for the 2nd ranked RB in the league in Lynch, Richardson was the 37th of 42 RBs with over 100 carries.

Not to mention the fact that he didn't play in 2011 and essentially was 2 years out of football last year.

If Gordon didn't have the off-field problems every single team in the league would give up a 1st for him

Scottemojo wrote:I would give up the 32nd pick for him right now.

I would as well. If he goes for a 2nd or a 3rd, a lot of GMs are going to be kicking themselves shortly thereafter.

What happens when he gets dinged again though and is out for a year?

Browns only asking for a 2nd rounder!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000258614/article/josh-gordon-the-subject-of-browns49ers-trade-talks

hawker84 wrote:with kearse and williams waiting in the wings, we don't need any more recievers IMO... we need linemen on both sides of the ball...

Williams is gone, claimed by jags.

kearly wrote:The only reason Lombardi is shopping this guy is because he will do whatever it takes to get Johnny Football.

Supposedly it's not just the suspension thing. He's also lazy in practice, and the Browns don't think he has even remotely learned his lesson since the suspension (was still out partying all the time even after he got busted).

I guess it kinda makes sense, considering they got him for 2nd rounder, he has looked all-world on the field, and they still can't get a 2nd rounder back for him. Definitely more going on, IMO.

Our second for him and their 3rd! Let do it! (If Pete and John are okay with it I'm on board-not likely.)

No way Seattle bites on that, I like Gordon's game but I agree something else is going on with him. Titus Young type of head case.

Good heavens, that guy loves to burn linebackers on crossing routes. Wilson would love throwing to that.