Arians: "I don't see the Dominance"

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Re: Arians: "I don't see the Dominance"
Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:06 pm
  • bigtrain21 wrote:
    CALIHAWK1 wrote:I don't see the issue. Whats he supposed to say? I don't think what he was quoted as saying as even being news worthy.



    He is supposed to say, "The Niners and Seahawks are doing great things and are formidable opponents, but we are doing great things too and while we respect them we don't fear them"

    I don't think it was very smart to provide extra motivation to the Seahawks and Niners. If he wants to say that behind the scenes, by all means say it.



    Read what he said in its entirety. He didn't say anything bad. He said "they still have to play Sunday." Big deal.
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Re: Arians: "I don't see the Dominance"
Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:59 pm
  • pehawk wrote:His reasoning for letting Horton go, actually made me like Arian's more. He didn't want a divided and distracted locker room. Which, it undoubtedly would've been.

    It took guts...good for Arians.

    First, I could have used better words than Kept Horton, I was under the impression that when Horton found out they were going a different direction he was gone no matter what.

    Second, I kind of got the impression that Schofield was a Horton guy. Wonder a bit if that is why he was let go. I keep hearing lots of stuff about Todd Bowles, mostly him comparing Peterson to Hall of famers in an effort to get the guy and maybe locker room on his side, but I wonder how many Arizona players were Horton guys. It was pretty powerful to hear Schofield liken him to his father.
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Re: Arians: "I don't see the Dominance"
Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:55 pm
  • Horton had the entire locker room, IMO. And, rightfully so.

    I understand why they hired Arians, I've loved him for awhile. But, Horton earned a shot. He had to go, if not hired.
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Re: Arians: "I don't see the Dominance"
Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:51 pm
  • I'll bet the players are groaning right now. "Our coach is an idiot!"
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Re: Arians: "I don't see the Dominance"
Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:10 am
  • I suspect the Cardinals would be a better team had they kept Whiz + Horton over Arians. Whisenhunt is a solid in game decision maker that got his team excruciatingly close to an NFL championship with an ancient Kurt Warner. I think the "team quitting on him" was really just a compounding of negative factors that stemmed from abysmal QB play- John Skelton carried the team to some Tebow-esque fluke wins in 2011 but his carriage turned into a pumpkin early last season. If there is one thing I do faut Whiz for, it's that he didn't stick with Kolb and chose a terrible yet "clutch" QB over a solid QB.

    The Cardinals real problem was their Matt Millen-lite GM Rod Graves, who had somehow kept his GM post there for 10+ years. So they finally fire him, only to promote his right hand man who appears to be equally inept. Even if Keim actually turns out to be a solid GM, it's not a good sign when you fire a terrible GM only to stay within the same front office. It would be like replacing TR with his right hand man Ruston Webster (currently the GM in Tennessee). Obviously, we wouldn't be where we are today if that had happened.

    I feel terrible for Cardinals fans. Has any team in NFL history had a more brutal long term outlook?

    drdiags wrote:He might think the 58-0 game was more the Cardinals quitting on Whisenhunt and them not having a decent QB as the main issues? Fisher stated a similar point of view. Media and fans like to declare super teams, NFL HCs don't have that luxury. They can have reality checks in private, but they better not publicly display fear or apprehension.


    Sure, but two weeks later they blew out the team everyone thought was the NFL's best, and in between those games they put up 50 points on the road. 150 points scored in 3 weeks- it's the first time in the Superbowl era that's happened. If that isn't dominance, what is?

    Seems like wishful thinking by Arians and 'stache, if you ask me. Not seeing any non-NFC West coaches backing them up. They are basically pulling a Richard Sherman here- they are talking big to create psychological pressure to back those words up on game days.
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Re: Arians: "I don't see the Dominance"
Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:13 am
  • Agreed Pe, Horton had to go. I just think he would have been the better hire.

    And Kip, spot on with Rod Graves. Props to the Cards for that near SB, but I saw that season up close, and a defensive storm of turnovers in the playoffs is how a team with no line and no run game made that game in the first place. That team lost so many one sided ass kickings that year, but got hot at the right time in a weak division.

    Rod Graves has always been kept for one reason, he will GM for less money than an outside hire. It's the same reason they kept hiring so many first time/just fired head coaches in AZ. The Bidwills are cheap in all the wrong places.

    Rod Graves has always had one of the worst jobs a GM can have, not only was he tasked with team building, he was tasked with selling seats. So many of the Cardinals personnel moves through the years coincide with declining market interest. On top of that, he has had to pacify his stars. Fitzgerald was public about wanting Kolb.

    Keim was a finalist here in Seattle. So glad Allen and Pete went a different direction.
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Re: Arians: "I don't see the Dominance"
Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:16 am
  • It isn't like Arians sought out the media to make this comment. I am sure it was posed to him like it was to Fisher about how tough the NFC West top dogs look. And just like Fisher, Arians gave the response I would expect every NFL coach to make. NFC West divisional fans may see the dominance, he hasn't been religiously following them and to him, he doesn't see the dominance.

    I don't understand what fans of the Seahawks want him to say. He isn't and shouldn't be trying to tread lightly. His owner (or was it the new GM) stated the 58-0 loss was an embarrassment that the organization never wanted to forget and live through again. Arians was hired to make sure that type of effort never happens on his watch. He cannot do anything but take the question head on and provide a bravado. Otherwise, his market eats him alive.

    I am sorry, but if I am setup with one of those kiss the rings questions from local or national media while I am trying to turn around my team, I am not going to fall in line with the national story of how great the top dogs are.

    It isn't like Arians was pulling a Rex Ryan and taking swipes at the Patriots from day one of his run as the Jets coach. No on in the NFC West has attained the same level of dominance that the Patriots had when Ryan came along. 9ers had a great 13-3 run, but missed the Superbowl. They followed it up with a Superbowl appearance. That is why Arians states one of the two has a chance of being dominant. To take his comment further, he sees a team that went 7-9, 7-9 and then caught fire to go 11-5. Another that was 6-10, 13-3 and 11-5-1.

    Personally, I see dominant as a long term thing record-wise and play-wise. Maybe the reporter was thinking physical dominance and Arians was thinking long-term performance (physical and record) dominance?

    Anyway, it is something to get fired up for but the proof will happen on the field. The rest is just good material for football discussion boards.
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Re: Arians: "I don't see the Dominance"
Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:06 pm
  • drdiags wrote:I don't understand what fans of the Seahawks want him to say.


    Something smarter, or at least something more "politically" mindful. Personally, I think what he said was pretty dumb. It's bulletin board material for SEA/SF. Whatever hope of AZ getting SEA/SF to overlook them next season (the way those teams did last season with the Rams) is basically gone now. That plus the quote just makes Arians look silly, especially if those teams smoke the Cardinals (again) in 2013.

    You are right about the "who cares" logic, or your should be right, in a just universe. But coaches can lay cracks in the foundation for their job security by saying things that sound stupid. In a lot of ways, running an NFL team is a lot like being a politician, because image matters. For example, I think the beginning of the end for Raheem Morris was when he famously said "stats are for losers." Less than a year later he was out of a job when his previously over-achieving 10-6 team regressed to the mean because- as it turns out- stats are for winners. Jim Mora hastened his exit from both Atlanta and Seattle with some poorly thought out opinions. Etc.

    You'll notice that a few months back, John Schneider was given a softball question about the 49ers 2013 draft class, and he went out of his way to praise it. Now JS is the genius and I'm a nobody, but I actually thought SF's draft was pretty meh- lots of backups, depth and "big names," but little in terms of untapped upside or sky high intangibles. They took a hack on a home run swing with Corey Lemonier, but otherwise they had an incredibly vanilla by-the-book draft, the kind that Mel Kiper would conduct. I'm betting Schneider is good friends with Baalke, so that might have factored. But the next time that PC/JS disrespects another NFL team, it will be the first time I'm aware of it. Even when Pete talks about Harbaugh, he's very careful to point out that he has the highest respect for him as a coach and competitor, etc.
    Last edited by kearly on Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:38 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Arians: "I don't see the Dominance"
Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:18 pm
  • It almost seems like he concedes one of the teams might be dominant. Wonder which one he was referring to
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Re: Arians: "I don't see the Dominance"
Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:18 pm
  • Scottemojo wrote:Agreed Pe, Horton had to go. I just think he would have been the better hire.

    And Kip, spot on with Rod Graves. Props to the Cards for that near SB, but I saw that season up close, and a defensive storm of turnovers in the playoffs is how a team with no line and no run game made that game in the first place. That team lost so many one sided ass kickings that year, but got hot at the right time in a weak division.

    Rod Graves has always been kept for one reason, he will GM for less money than an outside hire. It's the same reason they kept hiring so many first time/just fired head coaches in AZ. The Bidwills are cheap in all the wrong places.

    Rod Graves has always had one of the worst jobs a GM can have, not only was he tasked with team building, he was tasked with selling seats. So many of the Cardinals personnel moves through the years coincide with declining market interest. On top of that, he has had to pacify his stars. Fitzgerald was public about wanting Kolb.

    Keim was a finalist here in Seattle. So glad Allen and Pete went a different direction.


    To be fair, it is still early on Keim, though his record as a regional scouting director, etc, sucks. I just think the hire itself was silly. I love your observation about the Bidwill's frugality spilling over into their front office and coaching decisions. Their hiring of Keim seemed inexplicable when it happened. But now that you mention money, suddenly it adds up.

    You are right about the 2008 Cardinals, and I was probably overstating Whizenhunt's worth by using that example. They did (briefly) have an awesome offense, though. Awesome offense plus bad defense, lucking out with turnover differential, bad running game and bad O-line sounds a lot like what Packers fans have been enjoying for most of the Aaron Rodgers era.

    It is scary to think about Keim in Seattle, but it's also scary to think that 3/4 of the finalists were not named John Schneider. Rather than us dodging a bullet, we caught one.
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Re: Arians: "I don't see the Dominance"
Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:53 pm
  • I am not sure you could say that JS/PC's comments on the Vikings and how they treated TJack were complimentary.

    Guess this will go down as agree to disagree.
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Re: Arians: "I don't see the Dominance"
Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:58 pm
  • I love the hire of Arians. For the Hawks.

    Bruce wants to quit on the run, deep in his bones. Pete wants teams to be one dimensional. Arians will comply with just a little bit of adversity.

    As for what he said, good for him. What do we want him to say, they kicked our ass 58-0 and I don't see it getting better?
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Re: Arians: "I don't see the Dominance"
Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:53 pm
  • Scottemojo wrote:I love the hire of Arians. For the Hawks.

    Bruce wants to quit on the run, deep in his bones. Pete wants teams to be one dimensional. Arians will comply with just a little bit of adversity.

    As for what he said, good for him. What do we want him to say, they kicked our ass 58-0 and I don't see it getting better?


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Re: Arians:
Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:41 pm
  • drdiags wrote:I am not sure you could say that JS/PC's comments on the Vikings and how they treated TJack were complimentary.


    It was a brutally honest opinion (and a correct one), but it was carefully bubble wrapped. They weren't trying to instigate. It was also pointed at a former coaching staff that wasn't with the Vikings anymore. In fairness to your point, I do remember getting the sense that Pete regretted those comments afterword. I think he came to the conclusion that he wasn't careful enough and should have avoided the subject.

    I like that Arians wants to show moxie. But in the likely event his team is destroyed in one of the four games he plays against SEA/SF this season, that quote will look pretty bad, and could become a source of glib ridicule in media circles. Which won't matter if he's winning (Jim Harbaugh is exhibit A), but if you are a coach with a bad team, you don't want to create any potential image problems. Rex Ryan could probably write a book on that.
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