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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:32 am 
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Carroll's 3rd year of team-building resulted in the greatest season for a rookie QB ever, and our team is incredibly young overall. While we all hope to reach the Super Bowl this year, if we don't, nobody will be calling for Carroll's head. The few morons that might will get drowned out by the masses.

Also, yes, I did just say greatest season for a rookie QB ever. Show me a rookie QB that went 11-5 or better (.687 win % for pre-16-game season eras) with a road playoff win and 26+ TDs with a better-than-2-1 TD-int ratio if you want to refute it.

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:35 am 
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I would think Pete has a wide margin of lee-way here. Would we be disappointed with a 9-7 season?...sure, of course. Would there be people calling for his job? Of course, but probably very few.
Something would have to go terribly wrong for that to happen. That something would almost assuredly have to be injuries, something Pete doesn't have much control over.
Roland makes a great analogy here with the college kid. Pretty much sums it up...but I have to add to it Pete didn't do it in a conventional manner either. Moving Red to end,finding talent where few others look and changing the idea of what a cb should be. He has his own vision and knows how to make it work.
I've never argued that Harbs wasn't a good coach, for me, I just don't think he's a great coach, but thats just me. And at this point I'd much much much rather have Pete at the helm than Harbs, for about every reason I can think of. Especially professionalism!
I would also have to think, and its only my opinion, that if BOTH teams meltdown, Harbs head would be on the chopping block before Petes. Jimmays head would certainly be closer to exploding for sure..lol

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:55 am 
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Trenchbroom wrote:
The difference to me is that Pete rebuilt our team from scratch, and turned us into a competitor in record time. Schneider obviously helped, but ultimately Pete has the final say in things.

Sure we were 7-9 two years in a row before Wilson but go and ask a non-biased Bills or Browns fan which coach is better. I bet they would say the coach that envisions the recipe, helps buy the groceries AND cooks the meal is the one to have (I miss Bill Parcells sometimes).


Carroll and Schneider have done a fine job building a talented team. My response was directed to the guy saying Harbaugh didn't have a lot of success at Stanford until he got a great quarterback in Andrew Luck, and because of that he doesn't believe he's a great head coach. Wilson was clutch as hell when it mattered in a few games last season. Is it unrealistic to say that the Hawks don't win a few of the games they did last season without his clutch play? Do they win the games vs. the Packers, Bears, and Patriots with any of the lesser quaterbacks on the roster like Matt Flynn? Because if Matt Flynn can't come through in the clutch like Wilson did in those 3 games, then the Hawks finish the season at 8-8 or worse. Is Carroll still a great coach if the Seahawks never draft Wilson and end up going 7-9, 7-9, and then 8-8?


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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:06 pm 
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Disp wrote:
Trenchbroom wrote:
The difference to me is that Pete rebuilt our team from scratch, and turned us into a competitor in record time. Schneider obviously helped, but ultimately Pete has the final say in things.

Sure we were 7-9 two years in a row before Wilson but go and ask a non-biased Bills or Browns fan which coach is better. I bet they would say the coach that envisions the recipe, helps buy the groceries AND cooks the meal is the one to have (I miss Bill Parcells sometimes).


Carroll and Schneider have done a fine job building a talented team. My response was directed to the guy saying Harbaugh didn't have a lot of success at Stanford until he got a great quarterback in Andrew Luck, and because of that he doesn't believe he's a great head coach. Wilson was clutch as hell when it mattered in a few games last season. Is it unrealistic to say that the Hawks don't win a few of the games they did last season without his clutch play? Do they win the games vs. the Packers, Bears, and Patriots with any of the lesser quaterbacks on the roster like Matt Flynn? Because if Matt Flynn can't come through in the clutch like Wilson did in those 3 games, then the Hawks finish the season at 8-8 or worse. Is Carroll still a great coach if the Seahawks go 7-9, 7-9, and then 8-8?


I love Pete Carroll (the visionary more than the coach), and if Flynn starts all 16 games last year I think the conversation Seattle fans are having this year is should Pete be allowed to finish his 5 year deal. So yeah, Disp, you are right. Though I would venture that most great coaches have had great quarterbacks. However, they empowered those QBs. So yeah, coaches rightly get the credit. Most media faces roasted Pete for the QB competition last year. It took big balls to start the 3rd round rookie over the money contract guy, and a few games into the season after the Rams loss those same dolts were spouting I told you so like crazy. It took big coaching balls to start the rook and stick with him. Just like it took big balls for Harbs to bench Smith.

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:17 pm 
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Disp, we can play that game all day, the "what if?" game. You guys had two wins by two points or less in 2011, and another two wins by 3-6 points. One last-minute TD in those 4 games and you're 9-7. Last year, if the officials hadn't called that highly questionable delay-of-game penalty on the field goal attempt at the end against the Rams, they'd have won in overtime; and you had another two games decided by 7 points or less. What if those 3 had swung a little differently, and Harbaugh's first two seasons were 9-7 then 8-8?

The "what if?" game is just pointless arguing.

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:19 pm 
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Scottemojo wrote:
Just like it took big balls for Harbs to bench Smith.


It did? Only people that know nothing about football thought Smith was as good of a QB as his stats suggested. A simple offense that never went deep let Smith have highly inflated numbers. I think you're considerably overstating the gumption it took to start Kaepernick. Hell, Harbaugh didn't even "start" him over Smith, Smith got injured and Kaepernick was put in and Smith never got back in.

How in the world do you equate that to taking a lot of balls on Harbaugh's part?

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:37 pm 
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There still seems to be a misunderstanding here as far as my idea of what a great couch is. Again...Lombardi, Shula, Walsh,Knoll and others are what I consider a great coach to be. Harbs is a good coach in my eyes. Same as Pete. I only say Pete is a great coach because I'm a homer. I do however stand behind my thinking that Pete IS a better coach. I could take the time to say why, but thats probably not necessary because its been said already over and over again.
If you're somewhat bothered by the fact that won't say Harbs is a great couch....I won't apologize for it. I don't think he is. If you are going to tie Petes success with Wilson...then lets tie Harbs with Luck. 2 losing seasons until he started Luck...is he still a great coach then? My friend, its an argument we can go round and round with but lets not. Most on this site already disagrees with me for thinking Petes not a great coach, yet. Lets get some rings and I'll be the first to carry that banner.
edit: I'm directing this post at the niners fan, my .net friends :)

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:42 pm 
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RolandDeschain wrote:
Carroll's 3rd year of team-building resulted in the greatest season for a rookie QB ever, and our team is incredibly young overall. While we all hope to reach the Super Bowl this year, if we don't, nobody will be calling for Carroll's head. The few morons that might will get drowned out by the masses.

Also, yes, I did just say greatest season for a rookie QB ever. Show me a rookie QB that went 11-5 or better (.687 win % for pre-16-game season eras) with a road playoff win and 26+ TDs with a better-than-2-1 TD-int ratio if you want to refute it.



No doubt RW had a fantastic season and one of best for rookies, but I don't think the W-L record is a main factor.

Old article from last year:

http://seattletimes.com/html/seahawksblog/2019835750_rookieqbrecords.html

Old, old article from 2004. Marino & Manning were outstanding rookies:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=list/rookieqbs

Of course, the league was different back then.

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:46 pm 
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Boy, this thread would have been alot shorter if we'd stayed on topic. Not much to argue there huh? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:50 pm 
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RolandDeschain wrote:
Scottemojo wrote:
Just like it took big balls for Harbs to bench Smith.


It did? Only people that know nothing about football thought Smith was as good of a QB as his stats suggested. A simple offense that never went deep let Smith have highly inflated numbers. I think you're considerably overstating the gumption it took to start Kaepernick. Hell, Harbaugh didn't even "start" him over Smith, Smith got injured and Kaepernick was put in and Smith never got back in.

How in the world do you equate that to taking a lot of balls on Harbaugh's part?


Roland why do you constantly go so far out of your way to act simple minded just to spite a rival team? The coaching staff had doubts about Kaepernick ever developing into a starting caliber QB because he was so erratic in practice, let alone replacing a quarterback with the ridiculous efficiency Smith had to that point. Smith was in the top 3 in completion %, YPA, and rating when he was injured. If you're implying they could just plug anyone into that system and have that same success, then Harbaugh and Roman are actually significantly better than they get credit for. You don't have to like the team or coaches, but only people who know nothing about football would say that move didn't take balls, just like the move to start Wilson over Flynn.

samwize77 wrote:
Harbs is a good coach in my eyes. Same as Pete. I only say Pete is a great coach because I'm a homer. I do however stand behind my thinking that Pete IS a better coach. I could take the time to say why, but thats probably not necessary because its been said already over and over again.
If you're somewhat bothered by the fact that won't say Harbs is a great couch....I won't apologize for it.


I'm not bothered by it at all. I was just drawing attention to your point about Harbaugh not truly having a great season until Luck was on the Stanford team. Regardless of the other talent on the roster, the Seahawks probably would have been a .500 team or worse last year without the great quarterback they drafted. Great quarterbacks are just as important to a coach's legacy as the coach is to a great QB.


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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:02 pm 
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RolandDeschain wrote:
Scottemojo wrote:
Just like it took big balls for Harbs to bench Smith.


It did? Only people that know nothing about football thought Smith was as good of a QB as his stats suggested. A simple offense that never went deep let Smith have highly inflated numbers. I think you're considerably overstating the gumption it took to start Kaepernick. Hell, Harbaugh didn't even "start" him over Smith, Smith got injured and Kaepernick was put in and Smith never got back in.

How in the world do you equate that to taking a lot of balls on Harbaugh's part?


Because Alex had only had a couple of bad games all year. He had just gone 19 for 20 passing in a game. He was one of the leaders in passer rating, and was averaging almost 8 yards a pass. I agree, the numbers were inflated a bit, but Alex was playing pretty good. I don't think most coaches would have had the sac to keep Alex on the sidelines. Alex was ready to play two weeks after the injury, and Harbs handled the media part of the decision with no class or grace, but it was a gutsy decision. They got within a bad special teams play of going to the SB in 2011 with Smith, it isn't like he sucks.

Sticing with the guy who has no starting experience for a playoff run was ballsy.

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:12 pm 
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Not sure what to think about Smith but I guess I will see up close and personal this year. If he is successful this year there's no question that he's a top flight quarterback because Kansas City is no San Francisco.

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:29 pm 
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I don't know about a "ballsy" move, but it certainly wasn't a no-brainer either. It pretty much changed how they were going to run their offense. That wasn't an easy decision to make for sure. But it wasn't without its upside. Harbs saw what was happening elsewhere for sure. He also knew he could go downfield with Kap. Can a calculated risk be called ballsy? If so, yeah, then maybe it was ballsy.

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:35 pm 
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The thing here in regards to Pete starting Wilson over Flynn, and Harbs staying with Kap over Smith is that with Kap, Harbs had a chance(no real choice really) to see how Kap would do in a real game scenario. And while Smith was getting better Kap showed he was up to the challenge. With Pete, he had to make his decision with basically unknowns. Petes move was the riskiest of the 2 teams.
In the end the decision each coach made was probably for the same reason. To much upside to ignore.

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:46 pm 
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DTexHawk wrote:
No doubt RW had a fantastic season and one of best for rookies, but I don't think the W-L record is a main factor.

I'd agree with that, and Roethlisberger is the other end of the debate as far as rookie years go, even though he played 14 games in his rookie year and did not start the season in his rookie year, Rich Glennon did. Roethlisberger also had 98 fewer passing attempts than Wilson. 295. Like, a historically low rookie passing attempt number in the modern era for a QB playing 14 games. They had a sick defense and run game.

Disp wrote:
Roland why do you constantly go so far out of your way to act simple minded just to spite a rival team? The coaching staff had doubts about Kaepernick ever developing into a starting caliber QB because he was so erratic in practice, let alone replacing a quarterback with the ridiculous efficiency Smith had to that point. Smith was in the top 3 in completion %, YPA, and rating when he was injured. If you're implying they could just plug anyone into that system and have that same success, then Harbaugh and Roman are actually significantly better than they get credit for. You don't have to like the team or coaches, but only people who know nothing about football would say that move didn't take balls, just like the move to start Wilson over Flynn.

Wait, adding a reply that took all of 30 seconds to type is "going out of my way"? How do you figure? Also, what I said is true. Harbaugh never even made Kaepernick a starter, Kaepernick started games because Smith got injured, and Harbaugh kept him in after Kaepernick looked good for his first two starts. Where's the big-balls risk here? What, it was risky making a career average QB who only looked better than that once you had a stupid-simple offense that only worked because of a great defense and a powerful running game lose his job due to injury?

Seriously, I want to see someone explain, in detail, how it was risky. Scotte, you say he was blunt with the media about not bringing Smith back; so what? Harbaugh has always been media-unfriendly in San Francisco. What'd you expect him to say to the press once he started getting asked about it? "I'm tired of keeping half of the playbook on a shelf gathering dust because that's all Smith can handle"? No, saying that would have taken balls. I'd actually have given Harbaugh major props if he had found a way to say something like that. In other words, the truth. Don't misunderstand me, I don't fault him for not saying that, it's just that I can't fathom why anyone considers it a ballsy move for Harbaugh to not have put Smith back in. It was absolutely the right move for the team. He did the right thing. The only thing was, it wasn't a ballsy thing. He was handed an excuse on a silver platter; Smith got injured and had to be out two games, and Kaepernick was the new young guy and he looked good in the two starts. What more could you ask for if you wanted to transition QBs mid-season?

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:17 pm 
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I didn't say he was blunt, I said Harbs had no class or grace in the way he handled the starter question. Harbs sounded like a stuttering autistic kid every time he was asked anything about who would start.

Ok, so if you think he lacked scrote in KEEPING Kaepernick the starter, how much fortitude did it take to have Kaepernick throwing all over the place in his first start against the Bears stellar secondary?

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:07 pm 
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Disp wrote:
Carroll and Schneider have done a fine job building a talented team. My response was directed to the guy saying Harbaugh didn't have a lot of success at Stanford until he got a great quarterback in Andrew Luck, and because of that he doesn't believe he's a great head coach. Wilson was clutch as hell when it mattered in a few games last season. Is it unrealistic to say that the Hawks don't win a few of the games they did last season without his clutch play? Do they win the games vs. the Packers, Bears, and Patriots with any of the lesser quaterbacks on the roster like Matt Flynn? Because if Matt Flynn can't come through in the clutch like Wilson did in those 3 games, then the Hawks finish the season at 8-8 or worse. Is Carroll still a great coach if the Seahawks never draft Wilson and end up going 7-9, 7-9, and then 8-8?


Sorry, but that's a stupid question. Carroll and Schneider planned to draft Wilson all along. They almost drafted him in the second round. So it's extremely pointless and rather dumb to ask what happens if they don't draft him. They're still smart, because they still wanted to draft arguably the best rookie QB in the NFL last season when every other team, including SF, didn't.

Also your statement assumes Flynn was the plan at starter, and Wilson was just a lucky fluke of a late-round pick. Which couldn't be further from the truth.

Pete Carroll and John Schneider repeatedly told the media that Matt Flynn wasn't hired as a starter and wasn't the official starter. That it would be decided in training camp. Then they went out and drafted the guy they'd been wanting badly for months - Russell Wilson. Again, they told the media Wilson was in competition as well (and were heavily criticized for that, even by the Seattle media). So the plan all along was to have multiple options at QB, and let them duke it out. You're taking credit away from them for a plan working out exactly as they intended.

The same thing happened in SF with Kaepernick. Harbaugh went into the season with Smith as the starter, with a ton of media criticism about that. Everyone was criticizing the Kaepernick pick as well. Then Smith proceeds to have his best season ever, and put SF on a winning spree. When he was injured, Kaep came in, played well, and Harbaugh decided to go with "the hot hand". So your argument would be like asking a 49ers fan what would happen if Smith failed and the 49ers failed to make the playoffs. That didn't happen because Coach Harbaugh planned for just that scenario. That's what makes him a great coach.

One of the biggest joys for me as a Seahawks fan is realizing that we are now seeing a legendary matchup between two great football minds in this rivalry. It's like having Parcells and Shula coaching against each other in the same division. It's gonna be a lot of fun to watch.


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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:41 pm 
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Scottemojo wrote:
Ok, so if you think he lacked scrote in KEEPING Kaepernick the starter, how much fortitude did it take to have Kaepernick throwing all over the place in his first start against the Bears stellar secondary?


I'd have to watch the game to answer this for sure. Looking at the quick stats from that game, though, Kaepernick was 16 of 23. Since when is 23 passing attempts "throwing all over the place"? I just watched the highlights from that game, and there was exactly one deep pass in it. I have NFL Game Rewind if you want to tell me where to look to see other deep passes in that game. Also, knowing Jason Campbell was quarterbacking the Bears that night probably didn't scare Harbaugh off much, just a thought.

I get the feeling you're a little anxious to credit Harbaugh, Scotte.

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:23 am 
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RolandDeschain wrote:
Scottemojo wrote:
Ok, so if you think he lacked scrote in KEEPING Kaepernick the starter, how much fortitude did it take to have Kaepernick throwing all over the place in his first start against the Bears stellar secondary?


I'd have to watch the game to answer this for sure. Looking at the quick stats from that game, though, Kaepernick was 16 of 23. Since when is 23 passing attempts "throwing all over the place"? I just watched the highlights from that game, and there was exactly one deep pass in it. I have NFL Game Rewind if you want to tell me where to look to see other deep passes in that game. Also, knowing Jason Campbell was quarterbacking the Bears that night probably didn't scare Harbaugh off much, just a thought.

I get the feeling you're a little anxious to credit Harbaugh, Scotte.

You should watch it. I was surprised at the time, and the times I have watched since, just how well they attacked that secondary. A lot of midrange stuff, but at the time I had been watching a handcuffed Wilson all year and Kaepernick had way more trust placed in him immediately.

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:58 am 
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Scottemojo wrote:
RolandDeschain wrote:
Scottemojo wrote:
Ok, so if you think he lacked scrote in KEEPING Kaepernick the starter, how much fortitude did it take to have Kaepernick throwing all over the place in his first start against the Bears stellar secondary?


I'd have to watch the game to answer this for sure. Looking at the quick stats from that game, though, Kaepernick was 16 of 23. Since when is 23 passing attempts "throwing all over the place"? I just watched the highlights from that game, and there was exactly one deep pass in it. I have NFL Game Rewind if you want to tell me where to look to see other deep passes in that game. Also, knowing Jason Campbell was quarterbacking the Bears that night probably didn't scare Harbaugh off much, just a thought.

I get the feeling you're a little anxious to credit Harbaugh, Scotte.

You should watch it. I was surprised at the time, and the times I have watched since, just how well they attacked that secondary. A lot of midrange stuff, but at the time I had been watching a handcuffed Wilson all year and Kaepernick had way more trust placed in him immediately.

Well he should have given he was a 2nd year quarterback. NOT a rookie like the media desperately wants to paint it out like. That is a world of difference in the NFL and really any professional elite level athletic situation.

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:35 am 
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Kap went 16-23 243yds 2 tds
Sando thought this after the game: "Colin Kaepernick was so impressive in his debut that he may remain in that spot even after Alex Smith comes back". Kinda prophetic.

I didn't see the game, but those aren't bad numbers for a first time start of the year. I'm guessing he also was "muzzled" just a bit.

Wilson avg about 24.5 attempts per game over the whole season. I guess you have to make up your own mind if "he was throwing all over the place". Looks pretty good to me though.

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:01 pm 
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KCHawkGirl wrote:
Scottemojo wrote:
You should watch it. I was surprised at the time, and the times I have watched since, just how well they attacked that secondary. A lot of midrange stuff, but at the time I had been watching a handcuffed Wilson all year and Kaepernick had way more trust placed in him immediately.

Well he should have given he was a 2nd year quarterback. NOT a rookie like the media desperately wants to paint it out like. That is a world of difference in the NFL and really any professional elite level athletic situation.

So why did Pete say last year that his conservative playbook for Wilson would have been the same for Flynn? Flynn was a 5 year player.

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:02 pm 
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samwize77 wrote:
Kap went 16-23 243yds 2 tds
Sando thought this after the game: "Colin Kaepernick was so impressive in his debut that he may remain in that spot even after Alex Smith comes back". Kinda prophetic.

I didn't see the game, but those aren't bad numbers for a first time start of the year. I'm guessing he also was "muzzled" just a bit.

Wilson avg about 24.5 attempts per game over the whole season. I guess you have to make up your own mind if "he was throwing all over the place". Looks pretty good to me though.

Over 10 yards per attempt is silly numbers.

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
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Scottemojo wrote:
KCHawkGirl wrote:
Scottemojo wrote:
You should watch it. I was surprised at the time, and the times I have watched since, just how well they attacked that secondary. A lot of midrange stuff, but at the time I had been watching a handcuffed Wilson all year and Kaepernick had way more trust placed in him immediately.

Well he should have given he was a 2nd year quarterback. NOT a rookie like the media desperately wants to paint it out like. That is a world of difference in the NFL and really any professional elite level athletic situation.

So why did Pete say last year that his conservative playbook for Wilson would have been the same for Flynn? Flynn was a 5 year player.

Because Pete is generally conservative on offense? Or didn't see Flynn as the solution? What does that have to do with Keap? My observation about the NFL is that it is usually in the 2nd year do players make their largest jump. Also a year to study a playbook is more than enough time for a quarterback not to be handcuffed and limited unless they just don't have the talent (A. Smith).

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:21 pm 
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Not to get to grotesques here, but I keep getting this vision of the look on Mr Douches face while dropping "the bomb" during one of his nighttime sessions with his wife! Oh my God!! I don't know if I should puke or laugh! (or put a gun to my head if the visions don't stop!!..lol
edit: Sorry, what were we talking about?

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:04 am 
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Scottemojo wrote:
KCHawkGirl wrote:
Scottemojo wrote:
You should watch it. I was surprised at the time, and the times I have watched since, just how well they attacked that secondary. A lot of midrange stuff, but at the time I had been watching a handcuffed Wilson all year and Kaepernick had way more trust placed in him immediately.

Well he should have given he was a 2nd year quarterback. NOT a rookie like the media desperately wants to paint it out like. That is a world of difference in the NFL and really any professional elite level athletic situation.

So why did Pete say last year that his conservative playbook for Wilson would have been the same for Flynn? Flynn was a 5 year player.

Coach speak? Perhaps his answer was to quell questions more about his approach there.

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:52 am 
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NinerLifer wrote:
Despite everything that has been posted in this thread, what does it matter?

The guy just flat out is a great coach that obviously knows how to win.

I'd rather have Harbaugh with all of his antics, than have a coach that ends up sitting on the couch with the rest of his teams fans deep in the post season.

Well, I'll take a stab at an answer. Though I grant that Harbaugh is "quirky" (to put it nicely), I can't really get into a bashing session of relative morality. Meaning, anyone being labeled as the things being said... is being labeled from a standard - without defining what that standard is. I read a lot of "He's this and I'm not" business. That's hard to live up to. Personally, I try not to compare myself to others (though in my mind, of course I do - as we all futilely do)... even those that seem like easy targets as examples to say "I'm not like that guy." (My take: Yes, we all are equally so - at least in one key ultimate sense. Same stuff, different address. Another topic not allowed in this forum.) Having said that...
Yes, Harbaugh is in the spotlight and has gone off in public. Too, there is a track record of him being perhaps a bit socially awkward (again, to put it nicely - as we all perhaps should. But, it's a bit more fun/folly to take jabs, I guess.) Having said all that... no matter what conclusions others want to draw about his character, character usually does end up mattering when you are leading others. I think the case has been made that it can catch up with you. That seems to be the pattern with JHb. The quirky overly-passionate characteristics can be what makes him a good coach (by the way, I thought you said one would need several years before you would call them "great" - see RW/CK thread, et al. ;) ) But, just remember... those same volatile characteristics can also quickly lead to one's fall from popularity as well. He's not winning any popularity contests outside of the team that is counting on him to lead them. I do think it's relevant to bring up how past players view him. That is a glimpse into "why it matters." Any fan would say pretty much the same thing you're saying about wanting to see your team win. The issue, though... will it be short-lived while all the "other" teams you mention could be building for more long term success with a more stable leader? JHb can obviously coach - at least come into a media favorite, underachieving team with talent already on the roster from several poor years and high draft picks... and add his fire for a time for at least short term success. We'll see how he and the organization with JHb manage or mis-manage all that.

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
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Don't forget that your keyboard has an enter key, Team. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:33 am 
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NinerLifer wrote:
According to most of you guys on here, you have the most talented roster than you guys have had in like ever. Does that mean that if Pete doesn't coach your team into the SB that you will be calling for his head the next off-season? You guys claim that Harbs inherited a great team that just needed a good coach to take it somewhere, which might very well be true as I am not arguing that. But after all this re-building that you give PC credit for, if he doesn't take you guys to the SB this year...what does it matter?

No matter what a coach does during the off-season or even during the duration of a season, none of it matters unless you have something to show for all of it in the end of that season. Of course there are different opinions on what is good enough to be qualified as "something", but I think we can all agree that achieving more than the rest of your conference is deffinately "something" that every team shoots for.

Anything less than that is just a Brownie Button in comparison.

Let's see... how many logical fallacies are in this post. We've got the red-herring/poisoning the well bit. We've got sweeping generalization. "A quarrel can end a good argument" and you're quarreling, not arguing.

Newsflash... there are some pretty good teams in the NFL and I don't think you'll find too many Seahawks fans saying we've got it in the bag. I think we all pretty much acknowledge there are several capable teams and many improving teams. There are many factors that would make it all the sweeter to win the Super Bowl this year (strength of schedule, tough division, tough road schedule, etc.) Of course the games have to be played and perhaps no one will give consideration to various factors and extra-challenges some teams face in addition to playing the games.

Looking ahead, Seahawks fans have good reason to be excited when our favorite team is being mentioned as having as good a shot as any team this year (and any year, for that matter.) So, that matters. It matters to be in a position to have a shot. What you don't like is that the Hawks are being said to perhaps have the best shot... even over the 49ers. That's the issue here. It matters that the team is being built the right way (and not just by PC. Much credit goes to JS. Ownership... the entire organization.) It matters that Russell Wilson is a special player.

When a team has high hopes... of course it would be disappointing to not achieve the ultimate goal. I'm sure you don't need someone to tell you that. Your act is a bit disenchanting, especially on a Seahawks fan board. If the team was looking destined for the cellar, of course all our "talk" would sound like homerism. But, that's not the case now, is it. So, it's you, buddy. You're projecting on us. You're pouting like a 3rd grader who didn't get his way. But, again... you're here along with other Niner fans to purely talk football and improve the interaction of this forum.

(Per Roland's charge... I've attempted to use the "enter" button on occasion.)

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
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RolandDeschain wrote:
Don't forget that your keyboard has an enter key, Team. ;)

Sorry, man. I try sometimes to write more properly - especially as to make it easier to read. But, I don't pretend to be a writer. I'll try to remember what you've said and give everyone's eyes a break. I guess forums aren't on the same level as email and texting. So, all this matters a bit more - at least for courtesy (even for 49ers fans) - and I don't mind the friendly suggestion.
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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:46 am 
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Lol, wiseass. I had a valid point, though! I swear! (I still read it when it was a block of text, just FYI.)

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:56 am 
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TeamoftheCentury wrote:
NinerLifer wrote:
According to most of you guys on here, you have the most talented roster than you guys have had in like ever. Does that mean that if Pete doesn't coach your team into the SB that you will be calling for his head the next off-season? You guys claim that Harbs inherited a great team that just needed a good coach to take it somewhere, which might very well be true as I am not arguing that. But after all this re-building that you give PC credit for, if he doesn't take you guys to the SB this year...what does it matter?

No matter what a coach does during the off-season or even during the duration of a season, none of it matters unless you have something to show for all of it in the end of that season. Of course there are different opinions on what is good enough to be qualified as "something", but I think we can all agree that achieving more than the rest of your conference is deffinately "something" that every team shoots for.

Anything less than that is just a Brownie Button in comparison.

Let's see... how many logical fallacies are in this post. We've got the red-herring/poisoning the well bit. We've got sweeping generalization. "A quarrel can end a good argument" and you're quarreling, not arguing.

Newsflash... there are some pretty good teams in the NFL and I don't think you'll find too many Seahawks fans saying we've got it in the bag. I think we all pretty much acknowledge there are several capable teams and many improving teams. There are many factors that would make it all the sweeter to win the Super Bowl this year (strength of schedule, tough division, tough road schedule, etc.) Of course the games have to be played and perhaps no one will give consideration to various factors and extra-challenges some teams face in addition to playing the games.

Looking ahead, Seahawks fans have good reason to be excited when our favorite team is being mentioned as having as good a shot as any team this year (and any year, for that matter.) So, that matters. It matters to be in a position to have a shot. What you don't like is that the Hawks are being said to perhaps have the best shot... even over the 49ers. That's the issue here. It matters that the team is being built the right way (and not just by PC. Much credit goes to JS. Ownership... the entire organization.) It matters that Russell Wilson is a special player.

When a team has high hopes... of course it would be disappointing to not achieve the ultimate goal. I'm sure you don't need someone to tell you that. Your act is a bit disenchanting, especially on a Seahawks fan board. If the team was looking destined for the cellar, of course all our "talk" would sound like homerism. But, that's not the case now, is it. So, it's you, buddy. You're projecting on us. You're pouting like a 3rd grader who didn't get his way. But, again... you're here along with other Niner fans to purely talk football and improve the interaction of this forum.

(Per Roland's charge... I've attempted to use the "enter" button on occasion.)

Thanks for articulating my view so well TotC. Also thanks for the pretty spacing it made it far easier on my eyes. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:08 pm 
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RolandDeschain wrote:
Lol, wiseass. I had a valid point, though! I swear! (I still read it when it was a block of text, just FYI.)

Lol. Man, you got me. :oops: Even when I agree I still can be a wise guy about it. The paragraph was sincere. The 2 "enter's" were wise guy. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
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KCHawkGirl wrote:
Thanks for articulating my view so well TotC. Also thanks for the pretty spacing it made it far easier on my eyes. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:55 pm 
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TeamoftheCentury wrote:
NinerLifer wrote:
According to most of you guys on here, you have the most talented roster than you guys have had in like ever. Does that mean that if Pete doesn't coach your team into the SB that you will be calling for his head the next off-season? You guys claim that Harbs inherited a great team that just needed a good coach to take it somewhere, which might very well be true as I am not arguing that. But after all this re-building that you give PC credit for, if he doesn't take you guys to the SB this year...what does it matter?

No matter what a coach does during the off-season or even during the duration of a season, none of it matters unless you have something to show for all of it in the end of that season. Of course there are different opinions on what is good enough to be qualified as "something", but I think we can all agree that achieving more than the rest of your conference is deffinately "something" that every team shoots for.

Anything less than that is just a Brownie Button in comparison.

Let's see... how many logical fallacies are in this post. We've got the red-herring/poisoning the well bit. We've got sweeping generalization. "A quarrel can end a good argument" and you're quarreling, not arguing.

Newsflash... there are some pretty good teams in the NFL and I don't think you'll find too many Seahawks fans saying we've got it in the bag. I think we all pretty much acknowledge there are several capable teams and many improving teams. There are many factors that would make it all the sweeter to win the Super Bowl this year (strength of schedule, tough division, tough road schedule, etc.) Of course the games have to be played and perhaps no one will give consideration to various factors and extra-challenges some teams face in addition to playing the games.

Looking ahead, Seahawks fans have good reason to be excited when our favorite team is being mentioned as having as good a shot as any team this year (and any year, for that matter.) So, that matters. It matters to be in a position to have a shot. What you don't like is that the Hawks are being said to perhaps have the best shot... even over the 49ers. That's the issue here. It matters that the team is being built the right way (and not just by PC. Much credit goes to JS. Ownership... the entire organization.) It matters that Russell Wilson is a special player.

When a team has high hopes... of course it would be disappointing to not achieve the ultimate goal. I'm sure you don't need someone to tell you that. Your act is a bit disenchanting, especially on a Seahawks fan board. If the team was looking destined for the cellar, of course all our "talk" would sound like homerism. But, that's not the case now, is it. So, it's you, buddy. You're projecting on us. You're pouting like a 3rd grader who didn't get his way. But, again... you're here along with other Niner fans to purely talk football and improve the interaction of this forum.

(Per Roland's charge... I've attempted to use the "enter" button on occasion.)


Thanks for agreeing with my intentions of being here to talk football and improve the interaction of this forum.

Don't understand the 3rd grader remark. Maybe too much effort on your part to find/create negativity from a Niner fans post.

Try to stay on topic bud. :thirishdrinkers:

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:54 pm 
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samwize77 wrote:
Kap went 16-23 243yds 2 tds
Sando thought this after the game: "Colin Kaepernick was so impressive in his debut that he may remain in that spot even after Alex Smith comes back". Kinda prophetic.

I didn't see the game, but those aren't bad numbers for a first time start of the year. I'm guessing he also was "muzzled" just a bit.

Wilson avg about 24.5 attempts per game over the whole season. I guess you have to make up your own mind if "he was throwing all over the place". Looks pretty good to me though.


That game was against a team that had no intentions of winning. The Bears started Campbell at QB. The Bears gave up before the coin toss.


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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
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rideaducati wrote:
samwize77 wrote:
Kap went 16-23 243yds 2 tds
Sando thought this after the game: "Colin Kaepernick was so impressive in his debut that he may remain in that spot even after Alex Smith comes back". Kinda prophetic.

I didn't see the game, but those aren't bad numbers for a first time start of the year. I'm guessing he also was "muzzled" just a bit.

Wilson avg about 24.5 attempts per game over the whole season. I guess you have to make up your own mind if "he was throwing all over the place". Looks pretty good to me though.


That game was against a team that had no intentions of winning. The Bears started Campbell at QB. The Bears gave up before the coin toss.


Who was QB for the bears had no effect on how Kaep played that night. The Bears defense up to that point was being compared to the '85 bears D. The fact that Kaep made them look like a sandlot D is nothing short of amazing.

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:45 pm 
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NinerLifer wrote:
rideaducati wrote:
samwize77 wrote:
Kap went 16-23 243yds 2 tds
Sando thought this after the game: "Colin Kaepernick was so impressive in his debut that he may remain in that spot even after Alex Smith comes back". Kinda prophetic.

I didn't see the game, but those aren't bad numbers for a first time start of the year. I'm guessing he also was "muzzled" just a bit.

Wilson avg about 24.5 attempts per game over the whole season. I guess you have to make up your own mind if "he was throwing all over the place". Looks pretty good to me though.


That game was against a team that had no intentions of winning. The Bears started Campbell at QB. The Bears gave up before the coin toss.


Who was QB for the bears had no effect on how Kaep played that night. The Bears defense up to that point was being compared to the '85 bears D. The fact that Kaep made them look like a sandlot D is nothing short of amazing.


BUHWHAAAA!!! Come on really?

You really think a team that has given up on the season and is starting their backup is going to give you their best defense?

The 85 bears? Really? No really? Come on man, the only compliments that team had was before Seattle rolled into town and ripped their hearts out and even then it was never considered to be able to sniff the jock of the 85 bears team. They were doing good on take away's but that is about it.

It is post's like yours that make everyone laugh at Niner fans. Quit imagining that fans outside a San Francisco put their blinders on and drink that salty cool aide so they can see what you think you do.

Keap did well in that game and several besides it but the Bears were in a screw it mode and had no idea Harbaugh was going to put in the game plan he did. The variation from an Alex Smith run offense and a Papaki offense was night and day. Even if the Bears were in a playoff hunt they couldn't game plan for the different game plan.

Check a little bit of reality sometime and you will see that more people might take you seriously.

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
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Rich, not sure you are on the same page with reality on this one...seriously.

You are saying that because they threw JC in to start that means they gave up on the season??? Do you even remember why he started??? How can you say that they had given up on the season at that point???

Think what you want bro... :th2thumbs:

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 Post subject: Re: Confirmation that Jim Harbaugh = Massengill
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 1:28 pm 
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NinerLifer wrote:
TeamoftheCentury wrote:
NinerLifer wrote:
According to most of you guys on here, you have the most talented roster than you guys have had in like ever. Does that mean that if Pete doesn't coach your team into the SB that you will be calling for his head the next off-season? You guys claim that Harbs inherited a great team that just needed a good coach to take it somewhere, which might very well be true as I am not arguing that. But after all this re-building that you give PC credit for, if he doesn't take you guys to the SB this year...what does it matter?

No matter what a coach does during the off-season or even during the duration of a season, none of it matters unless you have something to show for all of it in the end of that season. Of course there are different opinions on what is good enough to be qualified as "something", but I think we can all agree that achieving more than the rest of your conference is deffinately "something" that every team shoots for.

Anything less than that is just a Brownie Button in comparison.

Let's see... how many logical fallacies are in this post. We've got the red-herring/poisoning the well bit. We've got sweeping generalization. "A quarrel can end a good argument" and you're quarreling, not arguing.

Newsflash... there are some pretty good teams in the NFL and I don't think you'll find too many Seahawks fans saying we've got it in the bag. I think we all pretty much acknowledge there are several capable teams and many improving teams. There are many factors that would make it all the sweeter to win the Super Bowl this year (strength of schedule, tough division, tough road schedule, etc.) Of course the games have to be played and perhaps no one will give consideration to various factors and extra-challenges some teams face in addition to playing the games.

Looking ahead, Seahawks fans have good reason to be excited when our favorite team is being mentioned as having as good a shot as any team this year (and any year, for that matter.) So, that matters. It matters to be in a position to have a shot. What you don't like is that the Hawks are being said to perhaps have the best shot... even over the 49ers. That's the issue here. It matters that the team is being built the right way (and not just by PC. Much credit goes to JS. Ownership... the entire organization.) It matters that Russell Wilson is a special player.

When a team has high hopes... of course it would be disappointing to not achieve the ultimate goal. I'm sure you don't need someone to tell you that. Your act is a bit disenchanting, especially on a Seahawks fan board. If the team was looking destined for the cellar, of course all our "talk" would sound like homerism. But, that's not the case now, is it. So, it's you, buddy. You're projecting on us. You're pouting like a 3rd grader who didn't get his way. But, again... you're here along with other Niner fans to purely talk football and improve the interaction of this forum.

(Per Roland's charge... I've attempted to use the "enter" button on occasion.)


Thanks for agreeing with my intentions of being here to talk football and improve the interaction of this forum.

Don't understand the 3rd grader remark. Maybe too much effort on your part to find/create negativity from a Niner fans post.

Try to stay on topic bud. :thirishdrinkers:

Just what any decent Seahawks fan wants from a Niners fan on our boards. A veiled insult disguised cleverly to also ring of narcissistic authoritarian directiveness. :th2thumbs:

Ninerlifer... check out the gist of your post. It's not "on topic" with the OP. I generally wish to refrain from making unnecessary remarks, but only do so when I feel it's appropriate to put a mirror in front of someone. Logical fallacies are quite convenient and you seem to use them often.

(And, too, just to be clear) Ah, no. I do not agree with you about your presence in the forum - that you're simply here to talk football, etc. That would be fine if it seemed to be the case. While other fans' contributions to the forum could bring about good interaction, it's not necessary for "improvement" - nor is the forum in desperate need of improvement.

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