Geno Smith--Bust or Star?

aawolf

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I've heard all this talk around the sports echo chamber (ESPN, sports radio) that since Geno fired his agent and was visibly dissapointed in the green room the first day of the draft, that this shows he is an individual that cannot be trusted with a leadership role as a QB. There was also an article on Profootball talk that he texted during initial meetings with teams, which I don't believe. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... the-draft/

I just wanted to go on the record saying that I don't believe the hype and I think that the media and NFL front offices have unfairly judged Smith. There appears to be a double-standard. I'm not saying that anyone is "racist" per se, but it seems like he, and Cam Newton before him, have been unfairly labled as trouble-makers, poor leaders, and bad attidude guys (at least Cam, though, had cheating problems in college, which was a legitimate red flag). I think that it is good to look at this from a different perspective: think of the white QBs that were whiny primodannas prior to and during the draft that were concensus "great leaders" and "sure-fire number one picks" that teams clammored over. I'm thinking about John Elway, who demanded to be traded from Baltimore before meeting with anyone--if Geno thinks he's too good to be left in the end of the first round, isn't Elway's belief that he's too good for Baltimore also a sign of "poor leadership"? Think about Eli Manning, who thought he was too good to play for the Chargers and demanded to be traded--again, no "poor leadership" label on him by NFL front offices. Looking stickly at the numbers, Geno smoked both Elway and Eli in his college stats. I just think that we, as a society, judge black QBs more harshly and label them as bad-attitude players more quickly than we do black QBs.
 

Scottemojo

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I don't think it's racism at all. and he didn't slide because the NFL teams bought into anything except the player they scouted. Just like Wilson didn't fall becasue of being black, he fell because he was short.

The simple truth is that Geno is going from a pure college attack with Austin and Bailey to a Jets team that lacks weapons. Geno has an entourage. Geno skipped the senior bowl. Geno gave the "I will kick the ass of any team that skips me" speech like he had just seen 30 for 30. Geno has been putting up false bravado all spring. I don't care if he is green, he was faking confidence.

I can't speak for society, but I hated Mallett as a prospect too, thought he was a blame thrower and lacked accountability. Last I checked, he was white. Also, what do Elway and Eli have to do with Geno? Elway was right about the Colts, you know. Eli made the right choice too, the Giants are just a better organization than the Chargers. Who cares if Geno smoked their stats. So did Colt Brennan. And Colt McCoy.

I think Geno flops big time.
 

jammerhawk

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Totally agree!

It's his agent's fault he wasn't drafted earlier? Really?

To me he's been reading his press clipping a bit too much and needs to learn some humility and shut his mouth. I can't think of a worse situation for him than the Jets who manage to eat their young ones as they deal with a cannibalistic and savagely unremitting media. In the QB room he and Sanchez will find getting to be tough.

I smell b-u-s-t. Thought he was defined by the last half of his season and while an uber athlete with a good arm seems lacking in QB sight and smarts.
 

Osprey

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Bust, but more due to the franchise than the player.

I don't know enough about Smith's background, but I did hear some media soft shoe speak about maturity concerns in college. Follow that up with pouting in the green room, initially refusing to come back for day two, and then firing his agent and sure I see flags. A good franchise would help the player overcome these challenges. History says the Jets are not that type of franchise, but there's a new Front Office so who knows.

The Elway and Eli examples are actually reflections of the above. They both identified poorly run franchises that they didn't want to work for and bucked the system to avoid that scenario.
 
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aawolf

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His senior year: 42 TDs. Only 6 INTs. 71.2% completion percentage. QBR of 163.9. Those are darn good numbers and don't suggest that he's lacking in QB sight and smarts. He "may" be a bust, and he "may" have fired his agent for nafarious reasons. However, I would judge my agent harshly as well if he "gauranteed" a first round pick and I fell. Your perception of him is based on what you have heard from various news articles and talking heads--and its negative based on SPECULATION from talking heads--news articles, Twitter, ESPN, NFL network, and talk-show hosts need stuff to fill band width and air-time--they fill it with speculation. The takes on Geno are unfairly negative, without highlighting his excellent play on the field. I'll let his play on the feild be the judge of whether he's a good football player, and he seems to be one based on tape I've seen. Until he proves he can't cut it in the NFL, he's not a bust, and based on what I've seen, he should be successful if given the chance.
 

ivotuk

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Bust. The only reason he did so good was many of his passes were completed behind the line of scrimmage, and to 2 of the best receivers in this draft. Austin and Stedman carried him and they will make Sam look good too.

If you want to talk about stats, EJ Manuel was a better QB than Ponder at Florida State, and I believe he will show that in Buffalo. All he needs is NFL level coaching and he will kick ass for the Bills.
 

DavidSeven

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aawolf":1hftd13d said:
There appears to be a double-standard. I'm not saying that anyone is "racist" per se, but it seems like he, and Cam Newton before him, have been unfairly labled as trouble-makers, poor leaders, and bad attidude guys (at least Cam, though, had cheating problems in college, which was a legitimate red flag). I think that it is good to look at this from a different perspective: think of the white QBs that were whiny primodannas prior to and during the draft that were concensus "great leaders" and "sure-fire number one picks" that teams clammored over. I'm thinking about John Elway, who demanded to be traded from Baltimore before meeting with anyone--if Geno thinks he's too good to be left in the end of the first round, isn't Elway's belief that he's too good for Baltimore also a sign of "poor leadership"? Think about Eli Manning, who thought he was too good to play for the Chargers and demanded to be traded--again, no "poor leadership" label on him by NFL front offices. Looking stickly at the numbers, Geno smoked both Elway and Eli in his college stats. I just think that we, as a society, judge black QBs more harshly and label them as bad-attitude players more quickly than we do black QBs.

I don't agree. Cam was flagged as having character issues in college, and what has he shown since coming to the NFL? Poor leadership and awful sideline demeanor. He's been called out by his own teammates (e.g. Steve Smith) for pouting on the sidelines. Sometimes you just have to call a spade a spade. White QBs aren't immune from the bad character label. This year, Tyler Bray was labeled a poor leader with bad work ethic and subsequently went undrafted despite having a NFL-quality arm. On the flip side, Russell Wilson had arguably the highest character scores in the history of the NFL draft, and now he's a hero in the city of Seattle. RGIII was also said to be a great leader coming out of college, and he appears to be just that at the pro level as well.

The Elway and Eli situations aren't really relevant. First, they don't say anything about either's ability to lead a football team. Second, those were isolated situations that happened in a different era where months of haggling with the #1 overall pick was basically the norm in the NFL.
 
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aawolf

aawolf

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DavidSeven":22a1xebq said:
aawolf":22a1xebq said:
There appears to be a double-standard. I'm not saying that anyone is "racist" per se, but it seems like he, and Cam Newton before him, have been unfairly labled as trouble-makers, poor leaders, and bad attidude guys (at least Cam, though, had cheating problems in college, which was a legitimate red flag). I think that it is good to look at this from a different perspective: think of the white QBs that were whiny primodannas prior to and during the draft that were concensus "great leaders" and "sure-fire number one picks" that teams clammored over. I'm thinking about John Elway, who demanded to be traded from Baltimore before meeting with anyone--if Geno thinks he's too good to be left in the end of the first round, isn't Elway's belief that he's too good for Baltimore also a sign of "poor leadership"? Think about Eli Manning, who thought he was too good to play for the Chargers and demanded to be traded--again, no "poor leadership" label on him by NFL front offices. Looking stickly at the numbers, Geno smoked both Elway and Eli in his college stats. I just think that we, as a society, judge black QBs more harshly and label them as bad-attitude players more quickly than we do black QBs.

I don't agree. Cam was flagged as having character issues in college, and what has he shown since coming to the NFL? Poor leadership and awful sideline demeanor. He's been called out by his own teammates (e.g. Steve Smith) for pouting on the sidelines. Sometimes you just have to call a spade a spade. White QBs aren't immune from the bad character label. This year, Tyler Bray was labeled a poor leader with bad work ethic and subsequently went undrafted despite having a NFL-quality arm. On the flip side, Russell Wilson had arguably the highest character scores in the history of the NFL draft, and now he's a hero in the city of Seattle. RGIII was also said to be a great leader coming out of college, and he appears to be just that at the pro level as well.

The Elway and Eli situations aren't really relevant. First, they don't say anything about either's ability to lead a football team. Second, those were isolated situations that happened in a different era where months of haggling with the #1 overall pick was basically the norm in the NFL.

From my perspective, the poutiest douche in the NFL is Jay Cutler, so I agree that white guys aren't immune from the label. I'll also agree that Cam has proven to be down-and-out alot late in games and has not proven to be the type to hold his head up when the going gets tough and couldn't get enough first downs to finish games (see the 5 fourth quarter meltowns where the Panthers had the lead going into the fourth last year). While these labels may have been deserved from their play in the NFL, Smith has not played a snap in the NFL yet. Thus, I think these labels have been unfairly thrust upon him prematurely. I think Tyler Bray fell, not because of his attitude, but because he underperformed given the talent around him last year at Tennessee--he was much more inconsistant than Geno.
 

Recon_Hawk

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First off, let me say I respect your opinion OP but I have to disagree with it.

To begin with, this sounds pretty familiar to the talk about Ryan Mallett.

Mallett, a good QB on the field (and white, btw), was rumored and accused by fans and the media of heavy drug use, a self-centered attitude, and questionable leadership.

Some proposed there was truth to these reports, but fans of his on the field talents quickly defended his reputation, suggesting it was media speculation and without proof. Turns out teams had the same causes of concern (or facts on the matter) as multiple teams passed on Mallett and he dropped into the 3rd round.

And now with Geno, it's the same fanboy, close-minded attitude in that the media is "speculating" to create news (no matter how much proof is given), and, oh yeah, thats play the "it's because he's black" argument, too (which makes no sense for this particular draft. In those same articles "speculating" that Smith fell because of his poor leadership skills, they "speculate" that EJ Manuel was selected so high, because of his leadership skills! See? How can that be if the media is unfairly portraying black QBs?)

I think the truth lies in how much we want to believe in the college prospects we've loved watching the past few years. We make excuses for our favorite players to protect them and our opinions instead of admitting that maybe the media (and teams) knows something we don't. Maybe we got it wrong.
 

RolandDeschain

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If I were a GM and drafted a QB in the 1st round and he sat out, demanding to be traded, I'd be sorely tempted to make that petulant child sit for the full four years on the bench as a lesson.

I do not and never will agree with what Eli and Elway did.
 

DavidSeven

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aawolf":67u6s32b said:
From my perspective, the poutiest douche in the NFL is Jay Cutler, so I agree that white guys aren't immune from the label. I'll also agree that Cam has proven to be down-and-out alot late in games and has not proven to be the type to hold his head up when the going gets tough and couldn't get enough first downs to finish games (see the 5 fourth quarter meltowns where the Panthers had the lead going into the fourth last year). While these labels may have been deserved from their play in the NFL, Smith has not played a snap in the NFL yet. Thus, I think these labels have been unfairly thrust upon him prematurely. I think Tyler Bray fell, not because of his attitude, but because he underperformed given the talent around him last year at Tennessee--he was much more inconsistant than Geno.

To be fair, I do think the media is being a little unfair to Geno, but I think that's more a product of him being a target for the NY media now and a member of the Jets circus. Sanchez is repeatedly killed by the press, and Tebow, one of the best character guys in the league, was slandered as well. Remember those "reports" that he refused to play at the end of last season.

That being said, I don't think Geno is a great pro prospect with or without character issues. As someone mentioned, his numbers were inflated by playing with dynamic playmakers. Nearly a third of his passes were screens, and his completion percentage under center was pretty awful.
 

Happypuppy

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Really hard to say. I was not that high on him coming out, let's see what coaching can do. He reads slow and seems to get happy feet.
 

Spounge84

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I will never understand why anyone uses college stats to argue how good a player will be in the NFL. Haven't we all seen plenty of great college QBs flop in the NFL, while some mediocre college QBs actually succeeded?
 

HawKnPeppa

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Spounge84":2opxj29w said:
I will never understand why anyone uses college stats to argue how good a player will be in the NFL. Haven't we all seen plenty of great college QBs flop in the NFL, while some mediocre college QBs actually succeeded?
He's got the largest nostrils. That has has to count for something. :cool:
 

Shadowhawk

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Time will tell if he has attitude problems but I think he went to the absolute worst possible situation. Not only does he have that circus sideshow of a team to contend with, he's got the New York media. To quote the late, great George Carlin: "New York is a character builder, and if you can't handle it, stay the $&@% out!"
 

Chukarhawk

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From my perspective, the poutiest douche in the NFL is Jay Cutler, so I agree that white guys aren't immune from the label. I'll also agree that Cam has proven to be down-and-out alot late in games and has not proven to be the type to hold his head up when the going gets tough and couldn't get enough first downs to finish games (see the 5 fourth quarter meltowns where the Panthers had the lead going into the fourth last year). While these labels may have been deserved from their play in the NFL, Smith has not played a snap in the NFL yet. Thus, I think these labels have been unfairly thrust upon him prematurely. I think Tyler Bray fell, not because of his attitude, but because he underperformed given the talent around him last year at Tennessee--he was much more inconsistant than Geno.

Based on what exactly. Do you know anyone thats on his team personally? I do, and your opinion of him is not based in reality.
 

HawksFTW

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Chukarhawk":scjqugof said:
From my perspective, the poutiest douche in the NFL is Jay Cutler, so I agree that white guys aren't immune from the label. I'll also agree that Cam has proven to be down-and-out alot late in games and has not proven to be the type to hold his head up when the going gets tough and couldn't get enough first downs to finish games (see the 5 fourth quarter meltowns where the Panthers had the lead going into the fourth last year). While these labels may have been deserved from their play in the NFL, Smith has not played a snap in the NFL yet. Thus, I think these labels have been unfairly thrust upon him prematurely. I think Tyler Bray fell, not because of his attitude, but because he underperformed given the talent around him last year at Tennessee--he was much more inconsistant than Geno.

Based on what exactly. Do you know anyone thats on his team personally? I do, and your opinion of him is not based in reality.

who?
 

Erebus

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aawolf":1zi2aav6 said:
His senior year: 42 TDs. Only 6 INTs. 71.2% completion percentage. QBR of 163.9. Those are darn good numbers and don't suggest that he's lacking in QB sight and smarts. He "may" be a bust, and he "may" have fired his agent for nafarious reasons. However, I would judge my agent harshly as well if he "gauranteed" a first round pick and I fell. Your perception of him is based on what you have heard from various news articles and talking heads--and its negative based on SPECULATION from talking heads--news articles, Twitter, ESPN, NFL network, and talk-show hosts need stuff to fill band width and air-time--they fill it with speculation. The takes on Geno are unfairly negative, without highlighting his excellent play on the field. I'll let his play on the feild be the judge of whether he's a good football player, and he seems to be one based on tape I've seen. Until he proves he can't cut it in the NFL, he's not a bust, and based on what I've seen, he should be successful if given the chance.

Jimmy Clausen's stats in his last college year:

68% completion percentage
3,722 yards
8.8 ypa
28 TDs
4 INTs
161.4 passer rating

College stats don't mean much. Clausen and Smith both lack the mental makeup required to be a good NFL QB.
 

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