49ers OC claims he didn't use real offense during 42-13 loss

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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:Marvin, I am sure you are well versed in all things Niner, though I have probably watched all their games twice myself. However, you appear to know damn near nothing about the rest of the NFL, like most Niner fans we see here.

    I personally think Roman is pretty smart. So smart that he watches how other teams play against pistol looks and tailors his game plan quite well. The Patriots have a pretty effective scheme against the pistol, having seen it twice the year before with Tebow, and absolutely killing it the second time they saw it. Seattle held Cam Newton to three offensive points earlier in 2012 and in the few looks in the first half Roman did use it, we killed the look. Makes sense, Seattle practices against it every day. As it turns out, no pistol QB scored more than 14 on us last year in three games. Besides, the Niners were too far behind to pose a serious run threat from any look, so why use the Pistol? The Cards have pretty good edge speed too, and in week 17 it makes perfect sense to not show a lot of what you have planned in two more weeks against a team unlikely to put up more than 20 (the Cards). But if you think Kaep's production against the Pack has anything to do with not showing them plays, you are daft. The Pack couldn't put a finger on him, only 4 of his yards were after contact. Sometimes coordinators just shit the bed by not being ready or in Capers case, lining up in 4 and 5 man man coverage looks, which just made QB runs easy. In Kaepernicks first game vs the Bears, same thing, a defensive coordinator very unprepared for Kaepernick.

    But Roman isn't so smart that he didn't get his car towed when hanging with his buddy Silver.

    See Marvin, how it's done? There were true facts about 4 teams besides the Niners and Hawks in my post. Go drop the 30 bucks or so on a rewind package, and try to watch games not involving your Niners. You just might become an NFL fan instead of a blind homer.


    Wow. Dude you know NOTHING about my knowledge of the game. Nothing.

    You think that I am somehow unaware of other teams running the Pistol? You think I don't know that it was Chris Ault at Nevada who created the thing? You think I don't know that when it was initially installed there was no read-option element to it and that was a dded a year into Kaeps time there? You think I don't know that Washington ran it the most this season? You think that I don't know that while Seattle began runing it later in the year that Wilson had NEVER run it in college?

    You tyhink that because I am talking Niners that I know nothing about the NFL at large?

    Dude, you don't have a clue who you're dealing with. I've been recoirding the draft since 1990. I remember the days Seattle drafted Dan McGuire and Rick Mirer. I've been a football fan since 1984. I remember Chris Warren and even Steve Largent. I remember Warren Moon when he was first in the CFL and then in Houston...you know long before he was in the media in Seattle.

    Just test me on this.

    The OC of a team comes out and says they scaled back their offense and all of you call him a liar even if the numbers seem to bear that out. I am a blind homer though because I agree with him and dare to tread on the 42-13 mantra and happen to think that Kaep isn't a timid little boy.

    You guys are nuts sometimes.


    Oh, you are a fan of your team, no doubt. But knowlege? I knew you lacked in that the second you put out your 4 bullet points of excuses why the Niners lost that game. You list did not include outplayed and outcoached, but did include tired and hurt. Weak. And bullshit. We lost to the Cardinals week 1. I was there. Got both outcoached and outplayed, just barely. Lost to the Rams. We executed better but got outcoached by Fisher. Lost to the Lions, their QB took advantage of our biggest problem, linebacker coverage and the nickel. Lost to the Dolphins, they kicked our ass in the trenches. Lost to your Niners, once again, your O-line pushed our guys around. Alex tried to lose it for you, but our offense could not catch. Lost to the Falcons, bad first half coaching and Matt Ryan did his thing in the last 30. He's good, I know because I watched a dozen Falcon games too. That is all distilled versions, but you get my drift. Sometimes you lose for reasons besides the dumb ass mantra you used of "our defense didn't get off the bus." It is a bullshit way to say you didn't lose, you beat yourself.
    But yeah, tape the draft. That will prove you know the ins and outs of football.
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  • Giedi wrote:
    Shadowhawk wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:[quote="Shadowhawk"]
    Green Bay gameplanned like they thought Alex Smith was still starting. Just because their coaching staff utterly failed to do their job, it doesn't constitute proof that this was all some master plan of San Francisco's to hide their playoff schemes over the last few weeks of the season.

    To buy this argument you have to believe that SF--a team that, as Marvin so thoroughly pointed out, was suffering injuries to key players and exhausted after two straight road games--was willing to risk losing out on a badly-needed first round bye and even the chance to host a playoff game just to keep their cards close to the vest. Not buying it.


    You not buying it doesn't make it less true.

    I realize you guys don't pay as much attention to the 49ers, interviews with players and coaches and the like (I wouldn't expect you to), but its pretty common knowledge that the 49ers spent alot of time in the off week before the Packer game on installing a number of permiations of the Pistol and read-option. The offense they ran in Seattle was vanilla. That doesn't mean that they didn't try to win. It doesn't mean that they weren't throwing deep.

    It also doesn't mean that the score would have been any different had they NOT been running a vanilla O. It just means that they kept some things in reserve for later games.

    BTW...this isn't the first time they have done this. He often roles out exotic plays and then goes vanilla another week. He'll throw to a DT one week do nothing close to that the next.

    This strategy worked against GB. They had no idea what was coming. It clearly DIDN'T work in Seattle. Had it cost them the division it would have been a huge mistake. Thankfully, it didn't and they surprised the hell out of GB. I just remember the stunned look on Clay Mattews face after the game saying that they hadn't seen any of that stuff on tape.


    You haven't proven that it is true. If you are correct that Roman came up with some new tricks for the Packers game, good for him. But the Yahoo article that launched this thread wasn't talking about Roman's game plan for the Packers game, it was making the claim A) that he dialed back the playbook in the last two games of the season and B) did it to keep from showing his hand to potential playoff teams. Not the same thing; for all we know, Roman sat down after the regular season and said, "the usual stuff isn't working. I need to try something new." All you have proved is that he tried some new things in the playoffs. You haven't proven that he ran a "vanilla O" to end the regular season. And the reason why I am skeptical that he did is because that would be a very foolish thing to do with a division title and a first-round bye up for grabs.

    You're right that I don't pay as much attention to the 49ers as you do, but I have been a Seahawks season ticket holder for 14 years, and I can honestly say I have never seen a quarterback look so rattled and shaken as Kaepernick looked last December. I don't say it to slam him--I expect he will put together a much better game in Seattle this season--but he looked completely lost out there. What you call a vanilla gameplan, I call the result of a quarterback who, for that game at least, was completely overmatched.

    I think the shellshock was more the defense being run over by Seattle and the Seattle special teams creaming the 49ers, than the QB getting shell shocked. They are a power run team, and if you get a lead on them, they start to panic and cant to their regular routine of winning the game in the 2nd half with the power run game. Seattle did a great job of getting the jump on them early and they started to break down and panic and get away from their game plan. It happens. Anytime the score margin is in the plus 14 differential, *something* has happned that the losing team didn't expect. Most NFL teams are within a 14 point differential of each other, I think the parity in the NFL is that close.[/quote]


    I was there. I saw the deer in headlights, hoofs over ears look.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    Shadowhawk wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:uh...nothing wrong with what I said. You just don't like it because you want to believe that Wilson can't be shaken and Kaep can.


    Hate to break it to you, Marv, but only one person on this thread has made the claim that his team's quarterback can't be shaken. Here's a hint: it wasn't me.


    Actually, they have. That was what I was responding to.

    When anyone here or even Seattle fans on Niner boards compare Wilson and Kaep they always like to talk about Kaep being shaken in Seattle and that Wilson has never been shaken. You can't say Wilson is taller or faster or has a bigger arm....so you go to intangibles.

    Wilson has them. No question. Its just wishful thinking tho that Kaep doesn't.

    Wilson is a great young QB. No question. Given their respective ages, I'd want Kaep more than anyone else right now followed by Wilson...altho Rodgers isn't that old so he might trump them both. Brady and Manning are better, but also far older.

    I have nothing but good things to say about Wilson.


    No, it wasn't what you were responding to. You went off because I had the audacity to suggest that Kaepernick was rattled and shaken in Seattle. Nobody ON THIS THREAD said that Wilson can't be shaken. I never said Wilson can't be shaken, despite your trying to put words in my mouth. But you said point blank that Kaepernick can't be shaken. THAT is wishful thinking.

    Getting back to the topic of the thread, Scottemojo is correct: there are many reasons why San Francisco might used the Pistol as much during the last three weeks of the season, and as such you can't point to the fact that they did as proof that they did it to "scale back their playbook" for the playoffs. They could have done it for any number of reasons. So if you are looking for anyone here to admit that they are wrong, sorry. You haven't proven us wrong.
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  • CamanoIslandJQ wrote:RW had the playbook significantly limited until the second half of the season. From that point on it became evident that the Seahawks had found their FIRST ever franchise QB (the 49-er's have had several back in the day). That is what makes this fan very jacked up for the coming seasons. Look at RW's stats from the first half vs the second half to see why. I liked Kaepernick when he was available in the draft, but our guys thankfully went in a different direction. I will say that Kaepernick has a pretty good chance to be a *very good* QB, but the Seahawks have a QB that has a chance to be a *great* QB as he continues to improve and excell at the position. That's what has all of us Seahawks fans really, really excited.

    I think it's also good for the entire NFL as a whole. The more great QB's on teams, the more aerial shows there will be, and I'm sure the aerial shootouts will bring out the fireworks and ratings. It's a win win for the NFL. Specially if the teams meet in the playoffs. That will be something if both organizations pull that off.
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  • Scottemojo wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:Marvin, I am sure you are well versed in all things Niner, though I have probably watched all their games twice myself. However, you appear to know damn near nothing about the rest of the NFL, like most Niner fans we see here.

    I personally think Roman is pretty smart. So smart that he watches how other teams play against pistol looks and tailors his game plan quite well. The Patriots have a pretty effective scheme against the pistol, having seen it twice the year before with Tebow, and absolutely killing it the second time they saw it. Seattle held Cam Newton to three offensive points earlier in 2012 and in the few looks in the first half Roman did use it, we killed the look. Makes sense, Seattle practices against it every day. As it turns out, no pistol QB scored more than 14 on us last year in three games. Besides, the Niners were too far behind to pose a serious run threat from any look, so why use the Pistol? The Cards have pretty good edge speed too, and in week 17 it makes perfect sense to not show a lot of what you have planned in two more weeks against a team unlikely to put up more than 20 (the Cards). But if you think Kaep's production against the Pack has anything to do with not showing them plays, you are daft. The Pack couldn't put a finger on him, only 4 of his yards were after contact. Sometimes coordinators just shit the bed by not being ready or in Capers case, lining up in 4 and 5 man man coverage looks, which just made QB runs easy. In Kaepernicks first game vs the Bears, same thing, a defensive coordinator very unprepared for Kaepernick.

    But Roman isn't so smart that he didn't get his car towed when hanging with his buddy Silver.

    See Marvin, how it's done? There were true facts about 4 teams besides the Niners and Hawks in my post. Go drop the 30 bucks or so on a rewind package, and try to watch games not involving your Niners. You just might become an NFL fan instead of a blind homer.


    Wow. Dude you know NOTHING about my knowledge of the game. Nothing.

    You think that I am somehow unaware of other teams running the Pistol? You think I don't know that it was Chris Ault at Nevada who created the thing? You think I don't know that when it was initially installed there was no read-option element to it and that was a dded a year into Kaeps time there? You think I don't know that Washington ran it the most this season? You think that I don't know that while Seattle began runing it later in the year that Wilson had NEVER run it in college?

    You tyhink that because I am talking Niners that I know nothing about the NFL at large?

    Dude, you don't have a clue who you're dealing with. I've been recoirding the draft since 1990. I remember the days Seattle drafted Dan McGuire and Rick Mirer. I've been a football fan since 1984. I remember Chris Warren and even Steve Largent. I remember Warren Moon when he was first in the CFL and then in Houston...you know long before he was in the media in Seattle.

    Just test me on this.

    The OC of a team comes out and says they scaled back their offense and all of you call him a liar even if the numbers seem to bear that out. I am a blind homer though because I agree with him and dare to tread on the 42-13 mantra and happen to think that Kaep isn't a timid little boy.

    You guys are nuts sometimes.


    Oh, you are a fan of your team, no doubt. But knowlege? I knew you lacked in that the second you put out your 4 bullet points of excuses why the Niners lost that game. You list did not include outplayed and outcoached, but did include tired and hurt. Weak. And bullshit. We lost to the Cardinals week 1. I was there. Got both outcoached and outplayed, just barely. Lost to the Rams. We executed better but got outcoached by Fisher. Lost to the Lions, their QB took advantage of our biggest problem, linebacker coverage and the nickel. Lost to the Dolphins, they kicked our ass in the trenches. Lost to your Niners, once again, your O-line pushed our guys around. Alex tried to lose it for you, but our offense could not catch. Lost to the Falcons, bad first half coaching and Matt Ryan did his thing in the last 30. He's good, I know because I watched a dozen Falcon games too. That is all distilled versions, but you get my drift. Sometimes you lose for reasons besides the dumb ass mantra you used of "our defense didn't get off the bus." It is a bullshit way to say you didn't lose, you beat yourself.
    But yeah, tape the draft. That will prove you know the ins and outs of football.


    Oh....sorry I didn't add it, but I do think they were outcoached that night...particularly if Roman scaled back the O. Saying that the D didn't get off the bus isn't an excuse. Its TRUE. They SUCKED that night like I'd seldom seen before. They continued to suck all the way through the playoffs. In fact, the suckage started in the second half the week BEFORE vs New England.

    Man...you have GOT to get off this knowledge rant. Its just LAME. It's a TOTAL copout. It's the insult you use when you don't have a better argument.
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  • And you still have added nothing.
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  • Giedi wrote:I think the shellshock was more the defense being run over by Seattle and the Seattle special teams creaming the 49ers, than the QB getting shell shocked. They are a power run team, and if you get a lead on them, they start to panic and cant to their regular routine of winning the game in the 2nd half with the power run game. Seattle did a great job of getting the jump on them early and they started to break down and panic and get away from their game plan. It happens. Anytime the score margin is in the plus 14 differential, *something* has happned that the losing team didn't expect. Most NFL teams are within a 14 point differential of each other, I think the parity in the NFL is that close.


    Personally, from my POV in the stands and re-watching the game on TV later, my opinion is that Kaepernick was shell shocked, too. Not just because of the delay of game penalties that Marvin mentioned, though I believe that's part of it. To give just one example, early in the second quarter (right before the blocked field goal) Kaepernick threw a dangerous pass into the back of the end zone that probably should have been intercepted. No big deal; rookie mistake. But in the fourth quarter, he throws the EXACT SAME PASS and gets picked off by Richard Sherman. That's more than a rookie mistake: that's a quarterback who has been completely thrown for a loop.

    Now, as I said before I expect that Kaepernick will turn in a better performance in his next trip to CenturyLink Field. But the young QB I saw that night was shaken to the bone. There's no shame in that: if he's the kind of quarterback 49er fans think he is, a night like that will make him better in the long run. But I still stand by my opinion that San Francisco's woeful offensive performance that night was the result of a quarterback who was rattled by a tough defense and a deafening crowd, and not the result of an attempt to scale down the playbook. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
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  • Shadowhawk wrote:No, it wasn't what you were responding to. You went off because I had the audacity to suggest that Kaepernick was rattled and shaken in Seattle. Nobody ON THIS THREAD said that Wilson can't be shaken. I never said Wilson can't be shaken, despite your trying to put words in my mouth. But you said point blank that Kaepernick can't be shaken. THAT is wishful thinking.

    Getting back to the topic of the thread, Scottemojo is correct: there are many reasons why San Francisco might used the Pistol as much during the last three weeks of the season, and as such you can't point to the fact that they did as proof that they did it to "scale back their playbook" for the playoffs. They could have done it for any number of reasons. So if you are looking for anyone here to admit that they are wrong, sorry. You haven't proven us wrong.


    Just looked back over it and you are correct on that first part...it wasn't in THAT post. Someone did talk about how they were amazed because Wilson had never been shaken. This thread is now 8 pages long though so I'm not going to go every post. Feel free to prove me wrong. I have to apologize because I'm actually trying to pull off multiple conversations at once on multiple sites. I am not too arrogant to admit that I sometimes get them mixed up. :D

    Here's a better question tho...are you suggesting that Wilson CAN be shaken?
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  • Shadowhawk wrote:
    Giedi wrote:I think the shellshock was more the defense being run over by Seattle and the Seattle special teams creaming the 49ers, than the QB getting shell shocked. They are a power run team, and if you get a lead on them, they start to panic and cant to their regular routine of winning the game in the 2nd half with the power run game. Seattle did a great job of getting the jump on them early and they started to break down and panic and get away from their game plan. It happens. Anytime the score margin is in the plus 14 differential, *something* has happned that the losing team didn't expect. Most NFL teams are within a 14 point differential of each other, I think the parity in the NFL is that close.


    Personally, from my POV in the stands and re-watching the game on TV later, my opinion is that Kaepernick was shell shocked, too. Not just because of the delay of game penalties that Marvin mentioned, though I believe that's part of it. To give just one example, early in the second quarter (right before the blocked field goal) Kaepernick threw a dangerous pass into the back of the end zone that probably should have been intercepted. No big deal; rookie mistake. But in the fourth quarter, he throws the EXACT SAME PASS and gets picked off by Richard Sherman. That's more than a rookie mistake: that's a quarterback who has been completely thrown for a loop.

    Now, as I said before I expect that Kaepernick will turn in a better performance in his next trip to CenturyLink Field. But the young QB I saw that night was shaken to the bone. There's no shame in that: if he's the kind of quarterback 49er fans think he is, a night like that will make him better in the long run. But I still stand by my opinion that San Francisco's woeful offensive performance that night was the result of a quarterback who was rattled by a tough defense and a deafening crowd, and not the result of an attempt to scale down the playbook. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that.


    I remember the play...and (big surprise) I don't think he was shell-shocked.

    I think he was just trying to make something happen and Sherman made a good play on the ball. If there is one criticism I have of Kaep right now is that he hasn't yet mastered the red-zone. Most of his TDs came from outside 20 yards. He had the same issue in the Super Bowl.

    Additionally, while I DO think the O was scaled down, I don't attribute the loss to that. The crowd certainly played a part in the loss. There is a reason why Seattle was 8-0 at home and 3-5 anywhere else. That building is nuts.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    razor150 wrote:I said right in my post this game doesn't mean a divisional shift, only that after this coming season it could be seen as one. At the moment we really don't know what it means for the coming season. However the game does mean something no matter how much you try and dismiss it. Close games can go either way, with their being plenty of what ifs, but blowouts not so much. I am sorry good teams don't often get taken to the woodshed like that when they are evenly matched or better then their opponent. Sure it could have been a game that got out of hand quickly and the 49ers weren't able to recover from it (like they did against the Falcons and Ravens) or it could mean they were just plain outmatched. At the very minimum it has destroyed any mental edge the 49ers had over the Seahawks up to that point. My guess is that the game means something in between the things getting out of hand and just being outmatched. I personally expect a hard fought series this year, as I said earlier I don't expect a sweep. I fully expect both teams will win their home game.


    I could argue the point about the margin of victory (Niners lost 21-0 against the Bucs in 2010 then the following year beat the Bucs 48-3...any given sunday), but for the most part I agree with you. I think it'll be another divisional split and both teams will be fighting for the division crown.


    I think the biggest shift in your example about the Bucs is what a difference having a decent coach makes. The 49ers were laying eggs under Singletary every year, even against bad teams. I think most people who know anything about football knew the 49ers had an awesome roster that was hamstrung by it's head coach before Harbaugh took over. The 49ers turning the score around like that isn't that surprising in retrospect. Also, if memory serves correctly, the Bucs kind of sucked in 2011 as well.
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  • CALIHAWK1 wrote:
    Giedi wrote:
    Teqneek wrote:The statement doesnt even make sense... They were still in a fight for the division.. and the season only had 3 games left. What were teams going to pick up against the Seahawks they hadnt the other 13 games? Besides like someone else said. What does our offense scoring 42 points have to do with their inept attempt?

    Their real offense with Alex Smith scores 13 at home.. their non real offense with Kaep can barely get a TD against our backups? Doesnt sound to promising for his game plan lol


    Wasn't at least 7 of those 42 scored by the special teams?


    No but, what's that got to do with the price of tea in England anyway?


    Well, the statement said their *offense scored 42,* that's not a correct statement if the special teams scored 7 of the 42. That means something like 35 was really scored by the offense with 7 being scored by the special teams.

    As for England, I didn't know Robert England drank tea. ;)
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  • CALIHAWK1 wrote:You haven't proven that it is true. If you are correct that Roman came up with some new tricks for the Packers game, good for him. But the Yahoo article that launched this thread wasn't talking about Roman's game plan for the Packers game, it was making the claim A) that he dialed back the playbook in the last two games of the season and B) did it to keep from showing his hand to potential playoff teams. Not the same thing; for all we know, Roman sat down after the regular season and said, "the usual stuff isn't working. I need to try something new." All you have proved is that he tried some new things in the playoffs. You haven't proven that he ran a "vanilla O" to end the regular season. And the reason why I am skeptical that he did is because that would be a very foolish thing to do with a division title and a first-round bye up for grabs.

    You're right that I don't pay as much attention to the 49ers as you do, but I have been a Seahawks season ticket holder for 14 years, and I can honestly say I have never seen a quarterback look so rattled and shaken as Kaepernick looked last December. I don't say it to slam him--I expect he will put together a much better game in Seattle this season--but he looked completely lost out there. What you call a vanilla gameplan, I call the result of a quarterback who, for that game at least, was completely overmatched.

    ...

    I was there. I saw the deer in headlights, hoofs over ears look.


    Well OK, I'll belive that you were there, and nobody can deny it was a shellacking.

    I certainly don't deny it. What I will say is it's one of the few times that I've seen that coaching staff panic. I didn't see the QB panic. I think the OC and the HC started panicking after that special teams fiasco and being down 21 points, and the game started getting away from them. They left behind what got them scores before against the "Hawks and started pressing the long pass to get back into the game and the 'Hawks just laid it into them with the pressures.
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  • I chuckle at some Seahawk fans who keep bringing this game up. It was Kaep's 6th start in a loud Seahawks stadium. His 6th start. He went on to crush and set records against Green Bay, came back to beat Atlanta (who just beat the Seahawks) in Atlanta and almost came back against the Raven's in the Super Bowl. Get over that game. 1/4 wins in two season against the 9ers big deal. Now we'll have an offseason taylored to Kaepernick. Can't wait.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:Here's a better question tho...are you suggesting that Wilson CAN be shaken?


    Unless Russell Wilson proves to be a terminator, an angelic being, or a former resident of the planet Krypton, then of course he can be shaken. I think he has shown remarkable resiliency so far in his career and has shown that he can bounce back from bad plays and bad games better than a lot of players I have ever seen, but he is human and as such he can be shaken. So can Kaepernick. And when you think about it, for Kaepernick to go into one of the toughest places in the league to play with a division title and playoff bye on the line, it's only natural that he WOULD be shaken given what happened in that game. Like I said before, if he is the caliber of quarterback you think he is, he will take that experience, learn from it, and become a better quarterback in the long run because of it. It's the same thing with Wilson.

    Jim Mora was Seattle's head coach for one lamentable season and I knew it was going to be a disaster when he said that he had "never failed in anything." A man who can say that is either lying through his teeth or has never attempted anything worthwhile. Wilson and Kaepernick have both failed at times. They have both been shaken and rattled at times. What is going to define their careers is how they respond. Kaepernick will probably be better prepared for his next game at CenturyLink and do a better job in that game because the first one shook him so badly. The Seahawks will still win, though. ;)
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  • Shadowhawk wrote:
    Giedi wrote:I think the shellshock was more the defense being run over by Seattle and the Seattle special teams creaming the 49ers, than the QB getting shell shocked. They are a power run team, and if you get a lead on them, they start to panic and cant to their regular routine of winning the game in the 2nd half with the power run game. Seattle did a great job of getting the jump on them early and they started to break down and panic and get away from their game plan. It happens. Anytime the score margin is in the plus 14 differential, *something* has happned that the losing team didn't expect. Most NFL teams are within a 14 point differential of each other, I think the parity in the NFL is that close.


    Personally, from my POV in the stands and re-watching the game on TV later, my opinion is that Kaepernick was shell shocked, too. Not just because of the delay of game penalties that Marvin mentioned, though I believe that's part of it. To give just one example, early in the second quarter (right before the blocked field goal) Kaepernick threw a dangerous pass into the back of the end zone that probably should have been intercepted. No big deal; rookie mistake. But in the fourth quarter, he throws the EXACT SAME PASS and gets picked off by Richard Sherman. That's more than a rookie mistake: that's a quarterback who has been completely thrown for a loop.

    Now, as I said before I expect that Kaepernick will turn in a better performance in his next trip to CenturyLink Field. But the young QB I saw that night was shaken to the bone. There's no shame in that: if he's the kind of quarterback 49er fans think he is, a night like that will make him better in the long run. But I still stand by my opinion that San Francisco's woeful offensive performance that night was the result of a quarterback who was rattled by a tough defense and a deafening crowd, and not the result of an attempt to scale down the playbook. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that.


    Well Ok, we can agree to disagree on that topic - that Kaepernick was shell shocked.

    I also think that the article isn't that far off base. I dont think it's any more complicated than calling a sweep from an I formation vs a pistol formation. You don't have to be in the pistol formation to throw a deep out or a drag route. You can call that from a shotgun or a two back formation. Same play, just from a different formations. Nothing more and nothing less. The full panoply of assorted runs, passes and trick plays will still be there just run from anything *other* than the pistol formation. That also doesn't mean that the 49ers laid down like dogs, no, I think they brought their A game and got toasted by the better team that day, simple as that.
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  • LOL...why is this being talked about so much?

    This is obviously one of those topics that neither side will cave on, even though it is common knowledge that a lot of coaches do what ours did so late in the season when facing a team that they are likely to face in the post season. I think what happened was that our coaching staff got caught off guard and surprised that you guys were able to play as well as you did despite them admittedly not completely opening the play book that night or whatever their plan (or lack there of) was.

    But at this point who cares? If the situation was reversed I am sure that us Niner fans would reply this way to Seahawk fans attempting to down play one of the biggest victories of the season.
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  • NinerLifer wrote:LOL...why is this being talked about so much?

    This is obviously one of those topics that neither side will cave on, even though it is common knowledge that a lot of coaches do what ours did so late in the season when facing a team that they are likely to face in the post season. I think what happened was that our coaching staff got caught off guard and surprised that you guys were able to play as well as you did despite them admittedly not completely opening the play book that night or whatever their plan (or lack there of) was.

    But at this point who cares? If the situation was reversed I am sure that us Niner fans would reply this way to Seahawk fans attempting to down play one of the biggest victories of the season.


    Ah, cause its the off season and we are bored (Hawks and 9ers alike). And funny you ask, aren't you the one that started the "where did your 49er hatred come from" thread?
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  • Semantics to save face. End of the day, their game plan was still to win. They were completely embarrassed, no one wants to lose like that. 9ers were handled badly in all phases that game.
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  • lvnginhwktwn wrote:
    NinerLifer wrote:LOL...why is this being talked about so much?

    This is obviously one of those topics that neither side will cave on, even though it is common knowledge that a lot of coaches do what ours did so late in the season when facing a team that they are likely to face in the post season. I think what happened was that our coaching staff got caught off guard and surprised that you guys were able to play as well as you did despite them admittedly not completely opening the play book that night or whatever their plan (or lack there of) was.

    But at this point who cares? If the situation was reversed I am sure that us Niner fans would reply this way to Seahawk fans attempting to down play one of the biggest victories of the season.


    Ah, cause its the off season and we are bored (Hawks and 9ers alike). And funny you ask, aren't you the one that started the "where did your 49er hatred come from" thread?


    Ya it was, so what? I seriously was curious where or why they disliked the Niners so much or if it was merely because we are division rivals, as some seemed to have a deep hatred to them which seemed to be more than just division rivalry type of stuff. It had nothing to do with trying to convince them otherwise or anything, I was just curious where it came from. That thread ended up turning into something that it wasnt intended to do.

    What's your point? I wasn't trying to convince them to suddenly stop hating on Niner fans. However it seems that some on here think they can change their opinions about one of the biggest victories they had on their schedule last year.
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  • Easy tiger, not sure if I like the tone of your voice young man.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    Seahawk fans come to Niner boards as well and I debate them just as I do here.

    Now please get off the high horse.


    This might be true if your lame ass boards would allow debates, but from what I've seen and heard they ban anyone who even peeps a word about any team other than the 49ers leaving no time for debating anything at all.
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  • Bakergirl wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    Seahawk fans come to Niner boards as well and I debate them just as I do here.

    Now please get off the high horse.


    This might be true if your lame ass boards would allow debates, but from what I've seen and heard they ban anyone who even peeps a word about any team other than the 49ers leaving no time for debating anything at all.


    This is extremely ironic coming from someone on seahawks.net...
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  • seahawksflow wrote:
    Bakergirl wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    Seahawk fans come to Niner boards as well and I debate them just as I do here.

    Now please get off the high horse.


    This might be true if your lame ass boards would allow debates, but from what I've seen and heard they ban anyone who even peeps a word about any team other than the 49ers leaving no time for debating anything at all.


    This is extremely ironic coming from someone on seahawks.net...


    LOL. Exactly how many 49er fans have we banned lately?
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  • Bakergirl wrote:
    LOL. Exactly how many 49er fans have we banned lately?


    Not enough.
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  • 9 pages of SF trash. The comment was obviously the dumbest thing he could have said, if any 'hawks are listening to this jibberish...they're about to bring some real pain to SF.


    Has this been linked to the "Why should we dislike the 49ers" thread?


    This thread is the embodiment of why SF fans suck. Spitting out redundant mouth garbage, over....and over....and over...trying to pass it off as football knowledge. The few fine 49er gents that frequent this board get a pass (they know who they are), the rest of you are just terrible...terrible people. You should all be ashamed of your existence.


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  • Oh yeah, I remember this game...

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  • I'm not going to read all 9 pages of whiner bs. But the fact is we held sf to 13 twice this year, but hey maybe they held back both times. :twisted:
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  • HawkFan72 wrote:I'm sure their special teams let a FG be blocked and returned for a TD on purpose too.


    You know, looking at the picture, there are an awful lot of linemen who never moved:
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  • BASF wrote:
    HawkFan72 wrote:I'm sure their special teams let a FG be blocked and returned for a TD on purpose too.


    You know, looking at the picture, there are an awful lot of linemen who never moved:
    Image


    Hah. That is an awesome picture.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    CamanoIslandJQ wrote:RW had the playbook significantly limited until the second half of the season. From that point on it became evident that the Seahawks had found their FIRST ever franchise QB (the 49-er's have had several back in the day). That is what makes this fan very jacked up for the coming seasons. Look at RW's stats from the first half vs the second half to see why. I liked Kaepernick when he was available in the draft, but our guys thankfully went in a different direction. I will say that Kaepernick has a pretty good chance to be a *very good* QB, but the Seahawks have a QB that has a chance to be a *great* QB as he continues to improve and excell at the position. That's what has all of us Seahawks fans really, really excited.


    See this stuff just amazes me.

    Wilson can be great but Kaep only "very good"? Based on what? Kaep took his team to the Super Bowl in his 10th freakin start. Is Wilson the only one who can improve. It seems like this conversation is always that somehow Wilson will continue to improve till he is the second coming of Jesus Christ (unless he is already that) and that Kaep is a pretender who will obviously decline (jeez, who doesn't know that?).

    I think both guys have the potential to be the among the best in the NFL. I understand liking the QB who's on your team, but dude....Kaep has a chance to be INCREDIBLE.



    Because Wilson was a Rookie? Didnt have a year and almost a half to learn his teams playbook, players and work with them before hand consistently in camp and practice.

    THIS is what amazes me.. people act as if a QB gains nothing from being on the team already for a year and a half. Im not sure how Kaepernick took SF to the superbowl... Did you miss Alex Smiths numbers before he got knocked out? Its a system, the system prevailed, doesnt mean Kaepernick with a headstart on Wilson is a world beater.

    Kaepernick will be incredible when he stops running straight line or always bootlegging left to take off... and stops staring down his receivers.
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  • BASF wrote:
    HawkFan72 wrote:I'm sure their special teams let a FG be blocked and returned for a TD on purpose too.


    You know, looking at the picture, there are an awful lot of linemen who never moved:
    Image


    Of course, it was all a part of Special Teams Coach Brad Seely's plan to "dial it back" on Special Teams against a division rival with conference seeding on the line. The technique shown above would ensure that opponents in the playoffs would not know to expect from the unit, and thus would be surprised when the 3 interior linemen actually DO block.

    It's all a part of Harbaugh's master plan guys. Don't you get it?
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  • Well ya know the argument could be made that the only reason we didn't sweep the Niners is because our coaching staff was holding back the playbook from Wilson.

    BTW, to all you Niner fans sticking your chest out that you made it to the Super Bowl....

    Did you win?

    You're either first or last.
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  • BASF wrote:
    HawkFan72 wrote:I'm sure their special teams let a FG be blocked and returned for a TD on purpose too.


    You know, looking at the picture, there are an awful lot of linemen who never moved:
    Image

    Is that for real? Almost has to be PhotoShopped! :lol:

    Such an epic fail is just priceless!
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  • gargantual wrote:
    BASF wrote:
    HawkFan72 wrote:I'm sure their special teams let a FG be blocked and returned for a TD on purpose too.


    You know, looking at the picture, there are an awful lot of linemen who never moved:
    Image

    Is that for real? Almost has to be PhotoShopped! :lol:

    Such an epic fail is just priceless!


    Yes, it is real. I clipped that off of the video that is online.
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  • Gotta love the noise at the Clink. Looks like even the center wasn't aware the ball had been snapped.
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  • amill87 wrote:Well ya know the argument could be made that the only reason we didn't sweep the Niners is because our coaching staff was holding back the playbook from Wilson.

    BTW, to all you Niner fans sticking your chest out that you made it to the Super Bowl....

    Did you win?

    You're either first or last.


    ...so then the Seahawks have been last since the day of their inception.

    Sorry...that was too easy. :D
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  • BASF wrote:
    HawkFan72 wrote:I'm sure their special teams let a FG be blocked and returned for a TD on purpose too.


    You know, looking at the picture, there are an awful lot of linemen who never moved:
    Image


    WOW.

    I've never seen that.

    One is the longsnapper and they often never get out of their stance. One of them is Leanard Davis who is slow as hell.

    The last one tho is Mike Iupati. Dunno what happened there. Explains why the kick was blocked tho.
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  • Marvin i actually read through this entire thread, and i'll commmend you , you held your own, congrats...

    my problem with this argument that they scaled back the offense is why?

    seems to me, any playoff team could go back to whatever week Kap took over and start looking at game film from those games.... unless of course they scaled back the offense starting in week 10 and did so all the way through the rest of the season... so i'm not sure what this actually accomplished... everything your team did on offense in the playoffs was on film from week 10 on... am i wrong here..
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  • update: the 9'rs did not use their "real defense" during that game.
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  • I would say that according to this press conference, young Kaepernick and Roman were not on the same page then.. hard to completely understand what Kap is feeling because he does so well with the media and all, but it's clear he's not happy about the manhandling... my favorite Kap quote " i wasn't worried about what their defense was doing, i was worried about what we were doing on offense"... maybe that was part of the problem Kap?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... cP-OttWjv4
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  • hawker84 wrote:Marvin i actually read through this entire thread, and i'll commmend you , you held your own, congrats...

    my problem with this argument that they scaled back the offense is why?

    seems to me, any playoff team could go back to whatever week Kap took over and start looking at game film from those games.... unless of course they scaled back the offense starting in week 10 and did so all the way through the rest of the season... so i'm not sure what this actually accomplished... everything your team did on offense in the playoffs was on film from week 10 on... am i wrong here..


    Thanks,

    Obviously, but they did roll out a number of things they'd never done. Also, DCs can't prepare for every single thing an NFL team ever did all season. They can only look at tendencies. There just isn't enough time. As a coordinator himself, Roman probably knew just how far back a coordinator could reasonably go.

    I think this is specifically the case with Seattle because there was a good likelyhood that the 49ers and 'hawks could have played each other in the playoffs...the Niners weren't going to roll out their entire bag of tricks.

    To be clear, it's possible the Seahawks did the same thing...they just haven't said so publically.

    As I've said all along...it may not have changed the outcome of the game. It wasn't that the 49ers weren't trying to win. The OC was just careful about what packages he installed and what plays were run.
    Last edited by Marvin49 on Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Teqneek wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    CamanoIslandJQ wrote:RW had the playbook significantly limited until the second half of the season. From that point on it became evident that the Seahawks had found their FIRST ever franchise QB (the 49-er's have had several back in the day). That is what makes this fan very jacked up for the coming seasons. Look at RW's stats from the first half vs the second half to see why. I liked Kaepernick when he was available in the draft, but our guys thankfully went in a different direction. I will say that Kaepernick has a pretty good chance to be a *very good* QB, but the Seahawks have a QB that has a chance to be a *great* QB as he continues to improve and excell at the position. That's what has all of us Seahawks fans really, really excited.


    See this stuff just amazes me.

    Wilson can be great but Kaep only "very good"? Based on what? Kaep took his team to the Super Bowl in his 10th freakin start. Is Wilson the only one who can improve. It seems like this conversation is always that somehow Wilson will continue to improve till he is the second coming of Jesus Christ (unless he is already that) and that Kaep is a pretender who will obviously decline (jeez, who doesn't know that?).

    I think both guys have the potential to be the among the best in the NFL. I understand liking the QB who's on your team, but dude....Kaep has a chance to be INCREDIBLE.



    Because Wilson was a Rookie? Didnt have a year and almost a half to learn his teams playbook, players and work with them before hand consistently in camp and practice.

    THIS is what amazes me.. people act as if a QB gains nothing from being on the team already for a year and a half. Im not sure how Kaepernick took SF to the superbowl... Did you miss Alex Smiths numbers before he got knocked out? Its a system, the system prevailed, doesnt mean Kaepernick with a headstart on Wilson is a world beater.

    Kaepernick will be incredible when he stops running straight line or always bootlegging left to take off... and stops staring down his receivers.


    Well for a guy who stares down his receivers and can only run in a straight line (2 criticisms I only read on this site...I wonder why that is), he played pretty damn well in the playoffs. If that is really all you see it can only be for 3 reasons.... 1) You don't know what your looking at (which I'm hoping isn't the case), 2) You haven't actually seen that much of him (more likely), 3) You simply don't WANT to see what Niner fans see (most likely).

    All of this crap I read about Kaep and his 1 read thing is all wishful thinking. The straight line thing is nothing more than trying to draw a line in the sand between Wilson and Kaep.....Wilson DOES have better lateral mobility. Granted....but Kaep is 6'5", 240 pounds and has a HUGE arm. Pick which one you like better....I'm sure you'll pick the lateral movement.

    As for having a year to learn...I'll give you some of that...but remember he has had only 1 real offseason. The lockout was on last year. Also, regardless of how much time you spend watching, NOTHING can prepare you for the games. This also doesn't say ANYTHING about why Wilson can improve but you guys seem to think Kaep can't. I could even spin this to say Wilson had an ADVANTAGE because he came into the NFL FAR less raw than Kaep did. Its all perspective. Both of those guys have a world of potential. Stop acting like one has so much more potential than the other. Its false.

    Its the system? Give me a break. Of COURSE the system helps. It helps ALL QBs. Do you really think that Wilson would be the exact same guy if they didn't run play action to Lynch? Do you really think that the system has nothing to do with Wilsons success?

    Harbaugh has been a QB guru everywhere he's ever been (Josh Johnson at USD, Luck at Stanford, Smith and Kaep in SF). He is a master at grooming QBs. Is it your contention that Wilson is in a bad system and Harbaugh is a genius and that he has created a far superior system? I can't possibly imagine any Seattle fan making that argument...in particular when it gives Harbaugh credit for ANYTHING.
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  • lol. You can thank your own fans for enlightening us on Kaepernicks stare downs.

    http://www.ninersnation.com/2013/1/31/3939606/super-bowl-2013-ron-jaworski-colin-kaepernick

    If I did have to point to an area where Kap could improve, it would be the fact that he stares down receivers a little too frequently at times. He's got the arm to fire the ball past defenders anyway, but the stare-down is something he will need to work on. Hopefully he is able to avoid that this Sunday against a smart, veteran Ravens defense.


    http://www.modestopress.com/turlocks-colin-kaepernick-wins-backup-qb-battle-for-49ers-over-scott-tolzien/2687/

    Kaepernick lacks patience in the pocket. He is too antsy and takes off when there is an opening. He has the mentality of a run-first quarterback rather than the pass-first one that win playoff games. He has a big arm but stares down his receivers too much. Kaepernick seems to not be going through his full progressions/read properly in order to make the right play.


    http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2011/08/inside-the-49ers/kaepernick-the-good-and-the-not-so-good/

    The two interceptions. Unlike Alex Smith, who doesn’t do enough when he’s playing poorly, Kaepernick was trying to do too much. He kept trying to force the ball to rookie receiver Ronald Johnson, who just wasn’t open. When he threw the picks, he stared his receiver down. If he wants a shot to play quarterback in the 2011 regular season, he’s going to have to clean this up, because Alex Smith has for the most part.


    As far as one reading, over 10 starts he targeted Crabtree almost as much as he targeted the next 3 receivers, combined. Why do you think the Ravens fouled the hell out of Crabtree on the goal line? No secret that blitzing Kaep would make him force the ball to Crabs.
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  • See this stuff just amazes me.

    Marvin49:

    Wilson can be great but Kaep only "very good"? Based on what? Kaep took his team to the Super Bowl in his 10th freakin start. Is Wilson the only one who can improve. It seems like this conversation is always that somehow Wilson will continue to improve till he is the second coming of Jesus Christ (unless he is already that) and that Kaep is a pretender who will obviously decline (jeez, who doesn't know that?).
    I think both guys have the potential to be the among the best in the NFL. I understand liking the QB who's on your team, but dude....Kaep has a chance to be INCREDIBLE.


    this is the very point I try to make over on your board... and i get the exact same responses you got here... goes with the territory my man.. But please don't lump all Seahawk fans together...

    i for one don't see any reason Kap won't improve next season, nor do i see any reason he won't be a top 10/5 QB in the league in the next couple years... Only time will tell on these two.. the only difference i see in the two at this point is Kap has pure talent and the attributes to succeed, where Wilson has these as well but also has the "IT" factor.... you can just sense greatness with him..
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  • hawker84 wrote:
    See this stuff just amazes me.

    Marvin49:

    Wilson can be great but Kaep only "very good"? Based on what? Kaep took his team to the Super Bowl in his 10th freakin start. Is Wilson the only one who can improve. It seems like this conversation is always that somehow Wilson will continue to improve till he is the second coming of Jesus Christ (unless he is already that) and that Kaep is a pretender who will obviously decline (jeez, who doesn't know that?).
    I think both guys have the potential to be the among the best in the NFL. I understand liking the QB who's on your team, but dude....Kaep has a chance to be INCREDIBLE.


    this is the very point I try to make over on your board... and i get the exact same responses you got here... goes with the territory my man.. But please don't lump all Seahawk fans together...

    i for one don't see any reason Kap won't improve next season, nor do i see any reason he won't be a top 10/5 QB in the league in the next couple years... Only time will tell on these two.. the only difference i see in the two at this point is Kap has pure talent and the attributes to succeed, where Wilson has these as well but also has the "IT" factor.... you can just sense greatness with him..


    LOL. There you go again.

    I was with you right up until that last line.

    Seattle fans ALWAYS do that...and I will lump them together in this regard. Why does Wilson have "it" and Kaep does not? Kaep took his team to the Super Bowl in his 10th NFL start. Kaeps career QB rating through his FIRST 10 starts is nearly 100. He broke an NFL record in his first playoff start.

    The guy has Terrell Suggs of all people, a notorious QB hater, singing his praises. He calls him "special" and that Kaep will play in "a few of these" in reference to the Super Bowl.

    Don't believe me?


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj_9ackcS6k

    PLEASE tell me what the "it" is that Wilson has that Kaep does not?

    In his 1st start, he ripped the Chicago Bears a new one on Monday Night Football.

    In his 5th career start he went into NE. In December. He threw FOUR TDs to beat the Patriots who hadn't lost there in that month in a decade.

    In his 8th career start he started the game by throwing a pick 6 and then rebounding with one of the most impressive performances by a QB in playoff history (263 yards passing, 2 TDs, 181 yards rushing, 2 TDs). He accounted for 444 yards and FOUR TDs in his first playoff game...and again....8th NFL start.

    He was down 17 to Atlanta and took the team all the way back for the win...in the NFCCG.

    He was down 22 in the Super Bowl and almost pulled off the biggest comeback in SB history.


    What the hell is the "it" that Kaep seems to be missing!?!

    I understand what you mean about the "it" factor in terms of what it is. I agree with you that Wilson has it. Some guys just have "it" while others do not. What I object to is that fact that only the Pacific Northwest seems to think that Kaep does not. It's kinda comical.

    IMO, it's because Kaep is 6'5", 240, has a huge arm and can run like the Wind. Wilson is 5'11", 210 lbs, has a good arm and can run. When those are the two guys dimensions, fans of that smaller guy tend to try to look elsewhere for the argument as to why he's better. Therefore, any intangable they use in regards to Wilson CAN'T be attributed to Kaep. Its the same reason people are critical that Kaep can "only run in a straight line". Its because Wilson is one of the most elusive QBs in the NFL. Its simply an attempt to draw a line in the sand and find something that Wilson is better at.

    There is no need. I don't need to be convinced. I already think Wilson is a great young QB. I don't need to find holes in his game to diminish him in an attempt to make Kaep look better.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:Seattle fans ALWAYS do that...and I will lump them together in this regard. Why does Wilson have "it" and Kaep does not?


    What is with niner fans, why are they so insecure about Kaep?

    I see it on other boards too(and here), especially ProFootballTalk, anytime Wilson is brought up, hordes of niner fans start screaming in unison, "But but but... what about Colin Kaepernick, he's really good too!! Right guys?! Guys? Kaperdick is just as good! Isn't he?!"

    It's the strangest thing. You have a good QB. Enjoy.
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  • You know i don't know how to explain it Marvin... you either have it or you don't... again i'm not saying he won't have it, i just don't see it now.. Maybe it's because he portrays himself like an immature person with his interviews and on field antics.. maybe that's what turns me off.. and i'm not saying he is immature because i don't knonw him personally, just how i see him with the short snotty answers and the on field crap..

    i could very well be wrong, and he'll go on to be a Hall of Famer, he certainly has every skill to do just that.. i guess for me, time will tell.... but right now i don't see him like a Michael Jordan, or Montana, or Elway... Guys like that, that as soon as you see their team on the schedule you say crap, we got to face Jordan this week... Now i feel that way about the niners as a whole, but Kap alone does not strike fear into me, AT THIS POINT, that could very well change very quickly..

    With RW, i already see it being said... Crap we got RW in our division.. That little Fu**er is going to be a pain in our ass for the next decade.. he has that whatever it is that strikes fear in you...

    sorry, best i could do, don't know how to explain it better.
    Last edited by hawker84 on Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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  • twisted_steel2 wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:Seattle fans ALWAYS do that...and I will lump them together in this regard. Why does Wilson have "it" and Kaep does not?


    What is with niner fans, why are they so insecure about Kaep?

    I see it on other boards too(and here), especially ProFootballTalk, anytime Wilson is brought up, hordes of niner fans start screaming in unison, "But but but... what about Colin Kaepernick, he's really good too!! Right guys?! Guys? Kaperdick is just as good! Isn't he?!"

    It's the strangest thing. You have a good QB. Enjoy.


    ROTFLMAO!

    Perspective is funny. I feel the EXACT same way about Seahawk fans. This conversation has been going on for awhile on both this board and a Niner board where he's registered.
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  • Like looking in a mirror eh Marvin.. go to the Web, you'll see this exact convo in reverse.. pretty funny.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    twisted_steel2 wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:Seattle fans ALWAYS do that...and I will lump them together in this regard. Why does Wilson have "it" and Kaep does not?


    What is with niner fans, why are they so insecure about Kaep?

    I see it on other boards too(and here), especially ProFootballTalk, anytime Wilson is brought up, hordes of niner fans start screaming in unison, "But but but... what about Colin Kaepernick, he's really good too!! Right guys?! Guys? Kaperdick is just as good! Isn't he?!"

    It's the strangest thing. You have a good QB. Enjoy.


    ROTFLMAO!

    Perspective is funny. I feel the EXACT same way about Seahawk fans. This conversation has been going on for awhile on both this board and a Niner board where he's registered.


    But yet here you are.... on a Seahawk board.
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