Anquan Boldin - not happy?

Discuss any and all NFL-related topics and matters of interest here. RATING: PG-13
Re: Anquan Boldin - not happy?
Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:41 am
  • Scottemojo wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    Since Baalke took over the draft...
    And did the selecting in a draft in which Scott McCloughan had done the work for 11 months? Giving Baalke all credit for his first draft is unfair. Iupati and Davis were both linked to San Fran before Baalke took over. This does not impugn Baalke as a talent evaluator, but lets be accurate. In fact, Scott had possibly the biggest role of anyone in assembling the current Niner talent.




    ....and this doesn't even include players like Kyle WIlliams or Anthony Dixon who have been good special teamers (outside of the fumble in the NFCCG for Williams) or players like Daniel Kilgore who are simply waiting for their shot. Kilgore will eventually replace Jonathan Goodwin at Center.

    Most of the Niners 2012 Draft class was effectively redshirted. AJ Jenkins did dissappoint as a rookie, but James played very well. Joe Looney was hurt when he was drafted so was never going to play. The Niners traded a number of their picks for picks THIS year and is a reason they at one point had 15 picks. Both of the OLBs they selected (Flemming and Johnson) were injured and will be back this year.
    Both teams, ours and yours, were considered by almost all to have reached in the first round, and the reports that followed AJ in the following months were terrible. San Fran in no way wanted to redshirt Jenkins, in fact you were desperate for good receivers last year. Evaluating any pick from San Fran in his rookie year is going to be difficult, once again, your HC is not inclined to trust or empower rookies, ours is. I am not saying either is right, in fact your SB loss could be hung on LMJ's fumble, and our loss to the Falcons could come down to a 7th round rookie guard, Sweezy.


    So...essentially...all this crap about SF not being able to draft revolves around ONE player...AJ Jenkins. He was not nearly the "reach" people suggest. He was projected by most to go at the top of round 2 and went at the bottom of round 1. He's training in Atlanta with Kaep right now so we'll see how he does in year 2.
    No logical voice says San Fran can't draft. The facts, however, are simple. Willis, Davis, Gore, Staley, Iupati, Davis, Crabtree, and many more were not talent that can be fully laid at the feet of Baalke. Tell me who on the Seattle squad you can say that about, it is a short list.


    Using Jenkins tho as if he is somehow indicative of the 49ers drafting ability when you compare it to the list above is simply ludicrous and homerism of the worst kind.

    As for the initial point about Harvin essentially being the Seahawks first pick...

    1st round picks don't typically require another 3 the following year plus 65+ million $$$$.
    [quote]First round picks aren't normally selected more than a month before the draft either. Any other exceptions to the norm you want to point out? Lets keep in mind that it was the Niners Seattle outbid for Harvin, meaning in all probability, your team was willing to both pay him and trade at least this year's first and a decent pick next year for the same guy. Seattle was willing to pay a bit more.
    [/quote]

    Actually I think it's completely fair to give Baalke credit. Its not like he appeared out of nowhere. He was a big part of putting that draft board together to begin with. He was also the man who pulled the trigger on those drafts. Then he followed that up with a stupendous 2011 draft. I'm not gonna say Scot had nothing to do with the success of this team. Of course he did. I liked him as a GM. Its just too bad he drank like a fish.

    I wasn't trying to imply that they intended to redshirt Jenkins. I was saying that that's what happened. It probably would have happned to LMJ as well if Hunter hadn't been hurt. It was tho intended with Joe Looney and ended up being the case with Darius Fleming because he got hurt.

    The Niners didn't have many roster spots. They were willing to take an injured player. They were also willing to move picks to THIS year (which is why they have so many).

    As for the "your coach won't play rookies" assertion....FALSE. He will play the rookies if they are the best at the position. Aldon Smith had 14 sacks as a rookie. Bruce Miller played DE in college yet STARTED at FB last year as a rookie. Rookies not playing has been a function of who else was on the roster, not an unwillingness to play rookies. I can almost guarantee that the Niners will probably start a rookie at FS this year.

    As for Harvin, there is exactly ZERO evidense of this. I don't think the Niners were EVER going to pay Harvin like that and would not have given up that many picks. The 49ers have been attached to almost EVERY team that is trading a player. That hasn't come from SF. That has come from the fact that they have alot of picks and reporters try to connect the dots. They were also attached to Revis....do you see that deal getting done? No. The 49ers are trying to extend their OWN players. It isn't their MO to give up premium picks and huge $$$ for players not already on the roster. Not gonna happen.

    The point I was making about Harvin as a 1st round pick was that one of the big benefits for really talented teams is that those first round picks will now be bound to teams for 5 years under very small contracts. To most of the league...big deal. To teams like the 49ers and Seahawks...that IS a big deal. Both of these teams are going to have serious trouble keeping all of their talent. One of the bad parts about drafting so well is that you end up not being able to keep them all. You need an infusion of cheap talent to keep yourself up and running. Spending 65 mil for a WR AND a 1, a 7, and a 3 next year...bad business IMO.

    The 49ers are already feeling the pinch. Thats why they lost Goldson. That's why they resigned Bowman 2 years early. Thats why they signed Anthony Davis 2 years early. They know that the prices will be much bigger 2 years from now so they are trying to lock in TODAYS prices. It won't be long before the 'hawks start feeling this pinch as well. I'm never a fan of trading away a 1st round pick. You have a possibility there of a VERY good player bound to you for a cheap price.

    Finally...you said that no rational person would say that the Niners can't draft. If that's the case, then you have alot of irrational posters on this site. ;-)
    Marvin49
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3553
    Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:34 pm


Re: Anquan Boldin - not happy?
Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:32 am
  • I haven't seen a lot of the can:t draft talk as muchh as the unproven
    2010 was obviously influenced by McCloughan and 2011 Blake was picking early in the draft compliments of poor play, 2012 he had neither McCloughan or early picks and produced Neil. 2013 is a prove it year IMO.

    Tim Ruskell's first of season and draft got the Seaawks to the super bowl but what he did after that completely destroyed the franchise.

    We'll see just like we'll see if Harvin was worth the price.
    The Lion has no interest in the opinion of the sheep.
    RichNhansom
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3026
    Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 7:26 am


Re: Anquan Boldin - not happy?
Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:38 am
  • RichNhansom wrote:I haven't seen a lot of the can:t draft talk as muchh as the unproven
    2010 was obviously influenced by McCloughan and 2011 Blake was picking early in the draft compliments of poor play, 2012 he had neither McCloughan or early picks and produced Neil. 2013 is a prove it year IMO.

    Tim Ruskell's first of season and draft got the Seaawks to the super bowl but what he did after that completely destroyed the franchise.

    We'll see just like we'll see if Harvin was worth the price.


    I could just as easily say that all of the prior drafts McCloughan had in SF were influenced by Baalke (particularly since Scot had a drinking problem). Baalke was his right hand man the entire time. McCloughan drafted Smith when he should have selected Rogers. He took Kentwan Balmer in round 1. He was a good GM, but he wasn't infalable.

    Early picks don't mean a thing if you take the wrong guy. NOBODY thought Aldon Smith was going to be a top 10 pick. They didn't just take the logical guy there. Baalke also PASSED on Blaine Gabbert to take Aldon and then moved UP in round 2 to get Kaepernick. He followed that up with Chris Culliver, Kendall Hunter, Daniel Kilgore (you don't know him now but may in the not to distant future), and Bruce Miller (who played DE in college and the Niners made him a FB).

    This notion that Scot built the team and that Baalke is just living off those picks is a fallacy. Are a number of those players on the roster? Yes...they were very good picks. I take nothing away from Scot, but it seems Seattle fans WANT desparately to believe that Baalke doesn't know what he's doing and it was ALL McCloughan.

    Say what you want in 2010, but it was Baalke who made those picks. It was Baalke who moved up for Anthony Davis. It was Baalke who selected Mike Iupati. It was Baalke who selected Navorro Bowman in round THREE.

    Wanting the Niners to suck in the draft process is just wishful thinking in the Pacific Northwest.
    Marvin49
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3553
    Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:34 pm


Re: Anquan Boldin - not happy?
Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:47 am
  • And nothing you just said changes my point. You say Seahawks fans want him to fail well don't 9er fans feel the opposite?
    Fact is this is his prove it draft. He has 14 picks and not early or with McClouan's input. If he fails like last year there is no excuse and you know it.

    Make all the excuses and assumptions you want but it doesn't change the results of his only draft without early picks or McCloughan's input.

    By the way, trying to point out McCloughan's bad picks in an attempt to discredit him so Balls looks better is weak sauce. Balke was part of those bad picks also and McCloughan as GM brought you some amazing talent over the years.
    The Lion has no interest in the opinion of the sheep.
    RichNhansom
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3026
    Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 7:26 am


Re: Anquan Boldin - not happy?
Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:59 am
  • RichNhansom wrote:And nothing you just said changes my point. You say Seahawks fans want him to fail well don't 9er fans feel the opposite?
    Fact is this is his prove it draft. He has 14 picks and not early or with McClouan's input. If he fails like last year there is no excuse and you know it.

    Make all the excuses and assumptions you want but it doesn't change the results of his only draft without early picks or McCloughan's input.

    By the way, trying to point out McCloughan's bad picks in an attempt to discredit him so Balls looks better is weak sauce. Balke was part of those bad picks also and McCloughan as GM brought you some amazing talent over the years.


    Not sure you can say this is his make it or brake it draft just because we have 14 picks this year, as we will obviously NOT be picking 14 guys in the draft or signing all of our draft selectees to a contract given our cap situation.
    DISCLAIMER:

    The trash talking that I do occasionally this week is strictly for gamesmanship between opposing fanbases as a result of our upcoming matchup this week on SNF. It by no means should be taken personally.
    User avatar
    NinerLifer
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 690
    Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:30 pm


Re: Anquan Boldin - not happy?
Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:54 am
  • RichNhansom wrote:And nothing you just said changes my point. You say Seahawks fans want him to fail well don't 9er fans feel the opposite?
    Fact is this is his prove it draft. He has 14 picks and not early or with McClouan's input. If he fails like last year there is no excuse and you know it.

    Make all the excuses and assumptions you want but it doesn't change the results of his only draft without early picks or McCloughan's input.

    By the way, trying to point out McCloughan's bad picks in an attempt to discredit him so Balls looks better is weak sauce. Balke was part of those bad picks also and McCloughan as GM brought you some amazing talent over the years.


    Wait....huh?

    So......Baalke gets no credit for the 2010 draft but gets blame for the bad picks that McCloughan made? Interesting...

    BTW, I wasn't attempting to discredit McCloughan. I thought he was a good GM and was sad to see him go. My point was that even good GMs don't hit on every pick. Bill Walsh was one of the best talent evaluators ever and he MOVED UP to draft Reggie McGrew in the first round and signed Lawrence Phillips as a FA. They all make mistakes.
    Marvin49
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3553
    Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:34 pm


Re: Anquan Boldin - not happy?
Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:56 am
  • NinerLifer wrote:
    RichNhansom wrote:And nothing you just said changes my point. You say Seahawks fans want him to fail well don't 9er fans feel the opposite?
    Fact is this is his prove it draft. He has 14 picks and not early or with McClouan's input. If he fails like last year there is no excuse and you know it.

    Make all the excuses and assumptions you want but it doesn't change the results of his only draft without early picks or McCloughan's input.

    By the way, trying to point out McCloughan's bad picks in an attempt to discredit him so Balls looks better is weak sauce. Balke was part of those bad picks also and McCloughan as GM brought you some amazing talent over the years.


    Not sure you can say this is his make it or brake it draft just because we have 14 picks this year, as we will obviously NOT be picking 14 guys in the draft or signing all of our draft selectees to a contract given our cap situation.


    Well we actually only have 13 picks now (after Colt McCoy trade), but your point is correct. The Niners will probably move up in the draft from a few of their current spots and will also probably trade some picks into next year.
    Marvin49
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3553
    Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:34 pm


Re: Anquan Boldin - not happy?
Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:46 pm
  • RichNhansom wrote:And nothing you just said changes my point. You say Seahawks fans want him to fail well don't 9er fans feel the opposite?
    Fact is this is his prove it draft. He has 14 picks and not early or with McClouan's input. If he fails like last year there is no excuse and you know it.

    Make all the excuses and assumptions you want but it doesn't change the results of his only draft without early picks or McCloughan's input.

    By the way, trying to point out McCloughan's bad picks in an attempt to discredit him so Balls looks better is weak sauce. Balke was part of those bad picks also and McCloughan as GM brought you some amazing talent over the years.


    You have NO idea what you're talking about. Scot McClueless was a horrible talent evaluator. Its no wonder our draft sucked as soon as they stripped Nolan of his GM duties and put McNugget in charge. McRib deserves no credit for that 2010 draft because he didn't make the final call on draft day. Baalke did.

    Trent Baalke, director of player personnel, will handle the majority of the decisions on draft day including the final word on which players to select. Director of pro personnel Tom Gamble will assist Baalke during the draft.

    On how much it sets back the organization losing their GM a month before the draft:

    “Not at all. Trent has all the information that we need. I have full confidence in Trent to be able to execute. He’s been the person that’s been out on the road. He’s organized the area scouts. He will absolutely be able to lead us through the draft.”


    http://www.examiner.com/article/jed-yor ... rence-call

    Or maybe you're one of those fans who thinks a GM just solely works alone in his little office and does everything independently. McFlurry had help putting together his draft board. But that's besides the point. Its not as simple as just scrolling down a big board and selecting a player. What other teams do and don't do, dictates the moves you make and the players you select or are available for you to select on draft day. Do you trade up? Do you trade back? Do you go need over bpa and vice versa? You take all that into account when you're on the clock. You make it sound as if Baalke just picked the players McDouble had already outlined for him to select. Please tell me you're not that dense?

    Mike Nolan will keep his job as 49ers coach but will relinquish final say over personnel decisions, according to ESPN.com. After two days of meetings, 49ers owners John and Denise DeBartolo York decided Tuesday night to retain Nolan, who has two years left on the five-year contract he signed before the 2005 season. Nolan also had been the general manager but has agreed to give up that control as a condition for his return. The top contender to take over general manager duties is believed to be current vice president of player personnel Scot McCloughan.


    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2008 ... lin-tackle

    So let's take a look at what happens when McChicken has final say over a draft.

    2008

    1 29 Kentwan Balmer
    2 8 Chilo Rachal
    3 12 Reggie Smith
    4 8 Cody Wallace
    6 8 Josh Morgan
    7 7 Larry Grant OLB

    His first 3 picks are no longer in the league. Wallace will probably be next. Only Morgan and Grant remain. Morgan was a good find. Grant turned into a solid depth LB. But his first 4 picks were atrocious. Explain that?

    **EDIT** Chilo Rachal just signed with the Cards. And one of the weakest O-Lines in football just got a little worst. We'll see if he makes the final 53. Reggie Smith justed signed with the Raiders. They're so devoid of talent at safety he might stick. Still lousy picks.

    2009

    1 10 Michael Crabtree
    3 10 Glen Coffee
    5 10 Scott McKillop
    5 35 Nate Davis QB
    6 11 Bear Pascoe
    7 10 Curtis Taylor
    7 35 Ricky Jean-Francois

    Crabtree fell in his lap so I won't give him credit for that. WR was our biggest need and the most productive WR through 2 years in college history fell to the 10th pick. Coffee is no longer in the league. McKillop is a 3rd string back-up/ST guy in Buffalo. Nate Davis didn't make it 3 years in the league. Curtis Taylor was out of the league for two years before we signed him just before the playoffs last year. He was signed by the Cards this off-season. Decent back-up/ST guy. Pascoe caught on with the Giants after we released him as blocking TE. RJF was the second best pick in that draft after Crabs. Still a very unimpressive draft.

    So to clarify, the TWO drafts that McMuffin was in charge of, had finally say in, produced ONE viable, sure-fire starter. And that was a prospect who was pretty much hand-picked for him to select based on biggest team need. But all of the drafts before and after these two, produced tons of starters and Pro Bowl talent. But you're implying McGriddle deserves credit for the ones he didn't have final say over right? C'MON MANNNNN!

    I don't know why its hard for most 'Hawks fans to give Baalke credit. I give Schneider tons a credit. I knew he would do well, coming out of that Packers front office and working under Ted Thompson. Which is exactly why I didn't want him in our division. He's done a great job of drafting and adding pieces in free agency. Though I think Avril isn't a great fit and extremely overrated, Bennett and Harvin were great acquisitions. Still have to play the games but you can't argue with the vision. I just don't understand some over-zealous 'Hawks fans thinking that we should already hand over the NFC West trophy because of these moves. That book has yet to be written.

    Trying to use McCafe as a means to discredit Baalke is just lame and doesn't give you a leg to stand on. Because the FACTS suggest otherwise. And who judges a draft not even a year after? If Jenkins does well next year, alot of you will have egg on your face. He had 4 NFL caliber wideouts with experience ahead of him on the depth chart the minute he was drafted. Crabs, Moss, and Manningham are legit NFL talents, who have produced in this league. And Kyle Williams was really becoming a factor for us in his packages before he got hurt. I said the minute he was drafted that he'd be lucky to make the 45 active on Sundays. I saw the potential but I also knew, barring injury and him improving his functional strength and base overnight that he was more of a longshot to contribute last season. I just happened to be right....which happens alot.

    You're also failing to realize we had a loaded roster before the draft. None of the picks were guys who were sought to come in right away and contribute, excluding injury to someone ahead of them on the depth chart if they even made the roster. Fleming would have probably helped when Haralson went down in preseason but he blew out his knee before the ink on his contract was even dry. Baalke got six sure fire starters in the previous two drafts. Might be seven if we release Goodwin and they make Kilgore the starter, which is very possible looking at our cap at the moment. Not to mention, another future starter in Cully. And a ton of depth with guys like Kyle Williams, Anthony Dixon, and Kendall Hunter. Exactly where did you expect the 2012 class to fit in?
    User avatar
    757Niner
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 163
    Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:30 pm


Re: Anquan Boldin - not happy?
Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:01 am
  • 757Niner you really have no clue what you're talking in reference to McCloughan. He had a lot to do with the drafting during his tenure there; he was the one who snagged Crabtree, and Patrick Willis. Now his main problem was that he was an Alcoholic, and if that wasn't a problem he may still be with the 49ers.

    I think it's foolish for homer Seahawk fans to simply dismiss Balke as if he hasn't had good picks recently, and it's foolish of 49er fans to dismiss what McCloughan, and even Mike Nolan did for your franchise. They were both good evaluators of talent and yes that includes Alex Smith, you can make an argument if McCarthy or Turner had stayed with them longer (neither of whom were fired but given HEAD COACHING jobs) the version of Smith you all saw under Harbaugh would have probably emerged sooner; now Nolan as a head coach sucked, but that's a while other issue.

    McCloughan and Blake have done great things for the 49ers and to say neither of them had any impact is foolish and to dismiss the solid things they've done is foolish; they've both made dumb choices, but also solid ones.
    Shinigami
    NET Bench Warmer
     
    Posts: 28
    Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:50 am


Previous


It is currently Sat Oct 25, 2014 7:28 pm

Please REGISTER to become a member

Return to [ NFL NATION ]




Information
  • Who is online