The Niners Have Fallen Behind In The Arms Race.

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  • Obviously the Niners won't be drafting 13+ players in the draft. No doubt packages will be put together in order to move up to....well wherever they want and pick almost whomever they want.

    And then we will start seeing the reports about how the Niners are NFC favorites again yada yada yada...which will also be pointless as nothing matters until September.
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  • NinerLifer wrote:Obviously the Niners won't be drafting 13+ players in the draft. No doubt packages will be put together in order to move up to....well wherever they want and pick almost whomever they want.

    And then we will start seeing the reports about how the Niners are NFC favorites again yada yada yada...which will also be pointless as nothing matters until September.

    I look forward to Mel Kiper calling us morons and saying we had the worst draft in the league again because we didn't follow his book, while grabbing another all pro somewhere in rounds 3-5.
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  • I agree Roland, in fact I hope Kiper praises the 9er draft. That is the type of endorsement that solidifies a draft smack full of bad decisions.

    Gotta say I love the recast of the draft that was out recently showing Seattle having 3 picks in the first 15 picks overall where the Niners didn't even have a player who would have been recast into round one. Yet according to Kiper we had one of the worst drafts of any team. I'll take that kinda bad every time.
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  • I'm not sure they'll have to move up for Datone Jones, but if they did, I'd consider it a very smart move regardless. It's going to suck if they turn those early 30's picks into Datone Jones and DeAndre Hopkins.
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  • heyu123 wrote:I think you could make a legit argument the Seahawks at the end of last year were a better team than us. Just from the eye test and the result in Qwest, it's just that their game in ATL didn't bounce their way like ours did.

    So with that said, this may not be so much the Niners pulling ahead as it is pulling even(or maybe slightly ahead depending on how they use the picks).

    If the Niners can use some of these picks for maybe a Revis like has been speculated, even if he is just a rental, then maybe that might put them ahead in the arms race.

    As it stands now it'll allow them to add tremendous depth which is what they lacked last year. But that's the only guarantee.


    They were the best team in the NFL for three games at the end of the year, but as I said then, they peaked too early. At the end of the playoffs, when they cooled back to earth, there were three great NFC teams, and they were all equally matched.

    But this just in: while Seattle and San Francisco did get better thus far (with Harvin, Boldin and the defensive signees by the Seahawks and the mountain of picks coming for the 49ers), the FALCONS ALSO DID. They just got Stephen Jackson, and everyone here knows what that means. That offense will now be utterly unstoppable. It wouldn't surprise me if both San Francisco and Seattle fall behind them. Of course, it's still a three team race, I think. But do not underestimate that team.
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  • 5_Golden_Rings wrote:
    heyu123 wrote:I think you could make a legit argument the Seahawks at the end of last year were a better team than us. Just from the eye test and the result in Qwest, it's just that their game in ATL didn't bounce their way like ours did.

    So with that said, this may not be so much the Niners pulling ahead as it is pulling even(or maybe slightly ahead depending on how they use the picks).

    If the Niners can use some of these picks for maybe a Revis like has been speculated, even if he is just a rental, then maybe that might put them ahead in the arms race.

    As it stands now it'll allow them to add tremendous depth which is what they lacked last year. But that's the only guarantee.


    They were the best team in the NFL for three games at the end of the year, but as I said then, they peaked too early. At the end of the playoffs, when they cooled back to earth, there were three great NFC teams, and they were all equally matched.

    But this just in: while Seattle and San Francisco did get better thus far (with Harvin, Boldin and the defensive signees by the Seahawks and the mountain of picks coming for the 49ers), the FALCONS ALSO DID. They just got Stephen Jackson, and everyone here knows what that means. That offense will now be utterly unstoppable. It wouldn't surprise me if both San Francisco and Seattle fall behind them. Of course, it's still a three team race, I think. But do not underestimate that team.



    Stephen Jackson does not scare the Seattle Seahawks. He has accomplished very little against them in his career. I do not believe that he ever broke 100 yards rushing.
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  • While I am very happy that Stephen Jackson is no longer in the division, it sucks that he went to a team that has a great passing attack. That team will be trouble from now on, and Jackson will look like a younger better version of himself with defenses having to respect Matt Ryan and Roddy White at the same time.

    Glad the Niners play them in Candlestick next season.
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  • 5_Golden_Rings wrote:
    heyu123 wrote:I think you could make a legit argument the Seahawks at the end of last year were a better team than us. Just from the eye test and the result in Qwest, it's just that their game in ATL didn't bounce their way like ours did.

    So with that said, this may not be so much the Niners pulling ahead as it is pulling even(or maybe slightly ahead depending on how they use the picks).

    If the Niners can use some of these picks for maybe a Revis like has been speculated, even if he is just a rental, then maybe that might put them ahead in the arms race.

    As it stands now it'll allow them to add tremendous depth which is what they lacked last year. But that's the only guarantee.


    They were the best team in the NFL for three games at the end of the year, but as I said then, they peaked too early. At the end of the playoffs, when they cooled back to earth, there were three great NFC teams, and they were all equally matched.

    But this just in: while Seattle and San Francisco did get better thus far (with Harvin, Boldin and the defensive signees by the Seahawks and the mountain of picks coming for the 49ers), the FALCONS ALSO DID. They just got Stephen Jackson, and everyone here knows what that means. That offense will now be utterly unstoppable. It wouldn't surprise me if both San Francisco and Seattle fall behind them. Of course, it's still a three team race, I think. But do not underestimate that team.


    Not agreed at all. Jackson has 2800 carries on those wheels, and is on the wrong side of 30. The Falcons D is not getting better.

    I was not surprised that Atlanta put the number of points they did on both our teams. What surprised me was both our teams left at least ten points on the field. That Atlanta D is easy to gouge, primarily through the linebackers.
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  • 5_Golden_Rings wrote:
    heyu123 wrote:I think you could make a legit argument the Seahawks at the end of last year were a better team than us. Just from the eye test and the result in Qwest, it's just that their game in ATL didn't bounce their way like ours did.

    So with that said, this may not be so much the Niners pulling ahead as it is pulling even(or maybe slightly ahead depending on how they use the picks).

    If the Niners can use some of these picks for maybe a Revis like has been speculated, even if he is just a rental, then maybe that might put them ahead in the arms race.

    As it stands now it'll allow them to add tremendous depth which is what they lacked last year. But that's the only guarantee.


    They were the best team in the NFL for three games at the end of the year, but as I said then, they peaked too early. At the end of the playoffs, when they cooled back to earth, there were three great NFC teams, and they were all equally matched.

    But this just in: while Seattle and San Francisco did get better thus far (with Harvin, Boldin and the defensive signees by the Seahawks and the mountain of picks coming for the 49ers), the FALCONS ALSO DID. They just got Stephen Jackson, and everyone here knows what that means. That offense will now be utterly unstoppable. It wouldn't surprise me if both San Francisco and Seattle fall behind them. Of course, it's still a three team race, I think. But do not underestimate that team.

    No the Hawks didn't peak too early, our ussypay d-coord decided he wanted to play a softzone-prevent defense on ATL's last drive with less than a minute left in the game! Thank Gawd he is no longer part of the coaching staff!
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  • Steven Jackson puts the Falcons over the top like Anquan Boldin puts the 49ers over the top.
    Last edited by RolandDeschain on Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:Stephen Jackson puts the Falcons over the top like Anquan Boldin puts the 49ers over the top.

    More like over the hill, amirite?
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  • pinksheets wrote:More like over the hill, amirite?


    +1.
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  • Winfield For The WIN!!
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  • This almost makes me believe the Niners will trade for Revis now, just to keep pace.
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  • 5_Golden_Rings wrote:
    heyu123 wrote:I think you could make a legit argument the Seahawks at the end of last year were a better team than us. Just from the eye test and the result in Qwest, it's just that their game in ATL didn't bounce their way like ours did.

    So with that said, this may not be so much the Niners pulling ahead as it is pulling even(or maybe slightly ahead depending on how they use the picks).

    If the Niners can use some of these picks for maybe a Revis like has been speculated, even if he is just a rental, then maybe that might put them ahead in the arms race.

    As it stands now it'll allow them to add tremendous depth which is what they lacked last year. But that's the only guarantee.


    They were the best team in the NFL for three games at the end of the year, but as I said then, they peaked too early. At the end of the playoffs, when they cooled back to earth, there were three great NFC teams, and they were all equally matched.

    But this just in: while Seattle and San Francisco did get better thus far (with Harvin, Boldin and the defensive signees by the Seahawks and the mountain of picks coming for the 49ers), the FALCONS ALSO DID. They just got Stephen Jackson, and everyone here knows what that means. That offense will now be utterly unstoppable. It wouldn't surprise me if both San Francisco and Seattle fall behind them. Of course, it's still a three team race, I think. But do not underestimate that team.


    Steven Jackson is one of my favorite NFL players of all time. It's too bad he has been stuck on such a terrible team for 80% of his career. Guy is the definition of a true professional. Same with Larry Fitzgerald. As much as I dislike their teams, I was never upset when they did well. He is gonna make that offense scary.
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  • Jackson is at the end of his productive cycle and he has NEVER had much luck against Seattle.

    Atlanta is just getting older.

    The 9ers had better purge some of that old stuff too with all those picks or they are definitely will be falling behind age wise anyway.

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  • Neener neener niners.
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  • mistaowen wrote:
    5_Golden_Rings wrote:
    heyu123 wrote:I think you could make a legit argument the Seahawks at the end of last year were a better team than us. Just from the eye test and the result in Qwest, it's just that their game in ATL didn't bounce their way like ours did.

    So with that said, this may not be so much the Niners pulling ahead as it is pulling even(or maybe slightly ahead depending on how they use the picks).

    If the Niners can use some of these picks for maybe a Revis like has been speculated, even if he is just a rental, then maybe that might put them ahead in the arms race.

    As it stands now it'll allow them to add tremendous depth which is what they lacked last year. But that's the only guarantee.


    They were the best team in the NFL for three games at the end of the year, but as I said then, they peaked too early. At the end of the playoffs, when they cooled back to earth, there were three great NFC teams, and they were all equally matched.

    But this just in: while Seattle and San Francisco did get better thus far (with Harvin, Boldin and the defensive signees by the Seahawks and the mountain of picks coming for the 49ers), the FALCONS ALSO DID. They just got Stephen Jackson, and everyone here knows what that means. That offense will now be utterly unstoppable. It wouldn't surprise me if both San Francisco and Seattle fall behind them. Of course, it's still a three team race, I think. But do not underestimate that team.


    Steven Jackson is one of my favorite NFL players of all time. It's too bad he has been stuck on such a terrible team for 80% of his career. Guy is the definition of a true professional. Same with Larry Fitzgerald. As much as I dislike their teams, I was never upset when they did well. He is gonna make that offense scary.

    At least Fitz got a super bowl appearance
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  • Maybe now that Jackson is with the Falcons, he might get a playoff victory a la Tony Gonzalez.
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  • 5_Golden_Rings wrote:They just got Stephen Jackson, and everyone here knows what that means.


    9 years without a winning record?
    9 years without a 100 yard rushing game against the Seahawks?
    10 straight head-to-head games without a loss?

    Is that what you mean?
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  • mistaowen wrote:
    5_Golden_Rings wrote:
    heyu123 wrote:I think you could make a legit argument the Seahawks at the end of last year were a better team than us. Just from the eye test and the result in Qwest, it's just that their game in ATL didn't bounce their way like ours did.

    So with that said, this may not be so much the Niners pulling ahead as it is pulling even(or maybe slightly ahead depending on how they use the picks).

    If the Niners can use some of these picks for maybe a Revis like has been speculated, even if he is just a rental, then maybe that might put them ahead in the arms race.

    As it stands now it'll allow them to add tremendous depth which is what they lacked last year. But that's the only guarantee.


    They were the best team in the NFL for three games at the end of the year, but as I said then, they peaked too early. At the end of the playoffs, when they cooled back to earth, there were three great NFC teams, and they were all equally matched.

    But this just in: while Seattle and San Francisco did get better thus far (with Harvin, Boldin and the defensive signees by the Seahawks and the mountain of picks coming for the 49ers), the FALCONS ALSO DID. They just got Stephen Jackson, and everyone here knows what that means. That offense will now be utterly unstoppable. It wouldn't surprise me if both San Francisco and Seattle fall behind them. Of course, it's still a three team race, I think. But do not underestimate that team.


    Steven Jackson is one of my favorite NFL players of all time. It's too bad he has been stuck on such a terrible team for 80% of his career. Guy is the definition of a true professional. Same with Larry Fitzgerald. As much as I dislike their teams, I was never upset when they did well. He is gonna make that offense scary.


    Yeah, class players like that are hard not to root for, unless they are up against my Seahawks! For that matter, much as I hate the whiners, mad props to Frank Gore for being a hell of a player.
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  • bestfightstory wrote:This almost makes me believe the Niners will trade for Revis now, just to keep pace.



    lol... gotta love fans, yes Im sure the Niners decision makers are quaking in their boots and frantically trying to get Revis' agent on the horn.
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  • NinerLifer wrote:Obviously the Niners won't be drafting 13+ players in the draft. No doubt packages will be put together in order to move up to....well wherever they want and pick almost whomever they want.

    And then we will start seeing the reports about how the Niners are NFC favorites again yada yada yada...which will also be pointless as nothing matters until September.



    Exactly.

    Gotta love the offseason Superbowls. :sarcasm_off:
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  • Goldrush wrote:Exactly.

    Gotta love the offseason Superbowls. :sarcasm_off:


    With the 5 Lombardi Trophies in your case, I'd have thought you would know how to spell "Super Bowl" correctly.

    In any case, there are teams that win the off-season championship, from time to time. I'd argue that the 49ers did when they signed Deion Sanders for a year. You guys likely don't win the Super Bowl that year without him.
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  • Dallas did the same...
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  • hawker84 wrote:Dallas did the same...


    Yep; but remember, "there are no off-season championships".

    There are, however, championships that are won with improvements made in the off-season. I'd love to see the 49ers argue against it in terms of drafting Joe Montana. Oh, not a championship off-season when that happened, huh?

    *rolls eyes*
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    hawker84 wrote:Dallas did the same...


    Yep; but remember, "there are no off-season championships".

    There are, however, championships that are won with improvements made in the off-season. I'd love to see the 49ers argue against it in terms of drafting Joe Montana. Oh, not a championship off-season when that happened, huh?

    *rolls eyes*


    I get your point but I think you are taking it out of context.

    The point is that EVERY year SOMEBODY signs a bunch of players and has a "championship off-season". Most often tho, that off-season doesn't work out the way everyone thinks it will. This has nothing to do with the Seahawks BTW, so don't take this as an insult to the 'hawks. I think it applies much more to teams like the Dolphins who spend stupid money on players that aren't worth anything close to their contracts.

    The 49ers and Seahawks are different because they were already knocking on the Championship door and are adding more talent. I'm not in love with most of the moves the 'hawks have made (tho I actually really do like the Winfield signing for them), but they have gotten better this off-season. I don't like the Harvin move, but it's not because i don't like Harvin...I just think the price was too high and it'll bite them later. That has nothing to do with this year tho. THIS year Harvin will make them a better team. Avril/Bennett.....not wild about those players. Avril in particular benefitted from the Wide 9 stance that Detoit used. I kinda think John Abraham would have been a better signing.

    I like the moves in SF...Boldin, Asomugha, Dorsey. You could say that it's just because I'm a Niner fan, but it's actually for the same reason I liked the Winfield move in Seattle. Older player, motivated, looking for a ring instead of a payday. Boldin doesn't need to be anything more than a #2 or #3 WR. While I'd love Asomugha to prove the world wrong and return to dominance, I know that isn't likely to happen. The price tho is completely worth giving him a chance to see if he can do it. Dorsey is just a replacement for Sopoaga whose play fell off dramatically last year. The one thing that Dorsey did really well in KC was stop the run and that's what he'll be asked to do in SF. Too many people fall into the "he didn't play well in a 3-4 in KC so why did he go to another 3-4 team?" trap. The answer is simple. In a conventional 3-4 he's called on to line up over a player an "two gap", IE guard the gaps on either side of his man. SF doesn't play the 3-4 that way. He'll play 1 gap and will be able to penetrate like a 4-3 DT would.

    Still, the 49ers lost 2 important pieces....Goldson and Walker. The lack of replacements on the roster make it a net negative at this point. Its all about the draft now. The Niners have 13 picks and Seattle has 11. What's important to note tho is that Seattle first pick isn't until the end of round 2 and they have only 3 picks in the first 4 rounds. The Niners have 7.

    My point here is simply that the offseason isn't over yet. The Niners were never going to be big free agent spenders. Next Weekend is when the fun starts. ;-)
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    Goldrush wrote:Exactly.

    Gotta love the offseason Superbowls. :sarcasm_off:


    With the 5 Lombardi Trophies in your case, I'd have thought you would know how to spell "Super Bowl" correctly.

    In any case, there are teams that win the off-season championship, from time to time. I'd argue that the 49ers did when they signed Deion Sanders for a year. You guys likely don't win the Super Bowl that year without him.


    Priceless. Guy wants to have a serious discussion about spelling and who is the best team to have never played an actual game. Knock yourself out dude.
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  • Next weekend is when the fun starts? If your a Niner fan then yes I agree but that is most certainly all going to be based on hype. So yes next weekend the hypes starts and obviously it will be fun for 49er fans. Just remember one thing. You have to play the games. Or in your case, they need to prove they can play at an NFL level and do it better than Jenkins did. Keep this in mind when you get excited about the draft picks you bring in because you and many other Niner fans have been very diligent in pointing out championship off seasons and the only thing worse than winning FA is winning the draft.

    Last year everyone gave the Seahawks a D or worse and then Wagner, Wilson and Irvin happened. In fact the last time I remember the Seahawks having a good draft grade after the draft was when we took Aaron Curry 4th overall.

    If you think the price was to high for Harvin, your going to have a meltdown when/if they resign Crabtree. It is what it is. We as Seahawks fans are hoping this FO that put in a 4 year plan and is now considered one of the best teams in the league coming into the start of their 4th season, actually does have a plan that is being realized but more importantly isn't so short sighted to not think beyond 4 years. I would loved to have gotten harvin for a late 7th and a league minimum contract but it is what it is and assuming it will cost the team dearly in some way in the future ignores that this FO has proven beyond any doubt that they know how to plan and have factored in everything that bringing Harvin in costs.

    I'm gonna trust Pete/John on the Avril signing no matter what his previous scheme. Consider we traded Daryl Tapp to the Eagles for a 4th round pick and Ohh by the way, got them to throw in Chris Clemons who has been a consistent 10+ a year sack guy. I think these guys know how to identify the talent they are looking at and utilize it. Clemmons was an after thought in Philly only to become a complete stud in Seattle.

    Bennett has graded out better than Jason Jones in nearly every statistical category while remaining healthy. Jones was brought in on a prove it contract and proved he couldn't be relied upon to stay healthy but when he was he made us significantly better. Now take that healthy version and improve it in performance and what is not to like about the signing? Unless your a Niner fan of course. But the move makes perfect sense, like it or not.

    You like the Niner moves because you have justified them but from an outside perspective there are much bigger question marks than you or your faithful want to realize. Asomugha is a safe move in that it is cheap but come on now, there is nothing beyond hope that he is a strong addition. Likewise he is not a gamble so no big but really at this point the acquisition should be viewed exactly as the "no big". If he helps then great and if not no big deal.

    Dorsey will be asked to do something he has never done, Play NT. He may have been miscast in KC but that is yet to be proven and the Niners are currently pegging him to be your starter at NT. Truth is he might end up being a very important player but it won't be at NT it will be replacing the 34 year old Justin Smith. That is his natural position in your scheme. Will he be as good as the the #4 overall pick who has been to 4 probowls with all pro honors? I don't know, maybe but that is still to be determined.

    Now lets talk Boldin. I'm a Boldin fan but that is tempered. If the signings were reversed I would be excited about Boldon for his blocking, toughness and professionalism but I would be concerned that Wilson would know how to make Boldin productive. He is not like Harvin that is good at getting open. He is a big body receiver that will man handle DB's and put himself in favorable position to catch a pass. The problem is that most inexperienced QB's don't have the understanding of what that means. They look for receivers to either be open, breaking open or coming back for the ball. When they see a receiver who appears covered they move on to the next target. Keapernick (just like Wilson would) will have to prove he can recognize when Bolden is in position to catch a pass. He will also have to display great touch, finesse and timing to put the ball where Boldin has the best chance to come down with it. This negates Keapernicks arm strength and requires he have the ability to drop the ball into the best position for Boldin. This will actually be a very good test for Keapernick to show he has the cerebral ability to identify and process while also having the touch, finesse and timing to execute the pass. If he doesn't then Boldin is taking up 6 million of your cap space and a roster spot for a position that might have been better suited playing Lockette in.

    If the Niners would have signed Harvin I would be simply crapping my pants and saying I don't like the Harvin move, but it's not because i don't like Harvin...I just think the price was too high and it'll bite them later.
    Last edited by RichNhansom on Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Goldrush wrote:Priceless. Guy wants to have a serious discussion about spelling and who is the best team to have never played an actual game. Knock yourself out dude.


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  • RichNhansom wrote:Next weekend is when the fun starts? If your a Niner fan then yes I agree but that is most certainly all going to be based on hype. So yes next weekend the hypes starts and obviously it will be fun for 49er fans. Just remember one thing. You have to play the games. Or in your case, they need to prove they can play at an NFL level and do it better than Jenkins did. Keep this in mind when you get excited about the draft picks you bring in because you and many other Niner fans have been very diligent in pointing out championship off seasons and the only thing worse than winning FA is winning the draft.

    Last year everyone gave the Seahawks a D or worse and then Wagner, Wilson and Irvin happened. In fact the last time I remember the Seahawks having a good draft grade after the draft was when we took Aaron Curry 4th overall.

    If you think the price was to high for Harvin, your going to have a meltdown when/if they resign Crabtree. It is what it is. We as Seahawks fans are hoping this FO that put in a 4 year plan and is now considered one of the best teams in the league coming into the start of their 4th season, actually does have a plan that is being realized but more importantly isn't so short sighted to not think beyond 4 years. I would loved to have gotten harvin for a late 7th and a league minimum contract but it is what it is and assuming it will cost the team dearly in some way in the future ignores that this FO has proven beyond any doubt that they know how to plan and have factored in everything that bringing Harvin in costs.

    I'm gonna trust Pete/John on the Avril signing no matter what his previous scheme. Consider we traded Daryl Tapp to the Eagles for a 4th round pick and Ohh by the way, got them to throw in Chris Clemons who has been a consistent 10+ a year sack guy. I think these guys know how to identify the talent they are looking at and utilize it. Clemmons was an after thought in Philly only to become a complete stud in Seattle.

    Bennett has graded out better than Jason Jones in nearly every statistical category while remaining healthy. Jones was brought in on a prove it contract and proved he couldn't be relied upon to stay healthy but when he was he made us significantly better. Now take that healthy version and improve it in performance and what is not to like about the signing? Unless your a Niner fan of course. But the move makes perfect sense, like it or not.

    You like the Niner moves because you have justified them but from an outside perspective there are much bigger question marks than you or your faithful want to realize. Asomugha is a safe move in that it is cheap but come on now, there is nothing beyond hope that he is a strong addition. Likewise he is not a gamble so no big but really at this point the acquisition should be viewed exactly as the "no big". If he helps then great and if not no big deal.

    Dorsey will be asked to do something he has never done, Play NT. He may have been miscast in KC but that is yet to be proven and the Niners are currently pegging him to be your starter at NT. Truth is he might end up being a very important player but it won't be at NT it will be replacing the 34 year old Justin Smith. That is his natural position in your scheme. Will he be as good as the the #4 overall pick who has been to 4 probowls with all pro honors? I don't know, maybe but that is still to be determined.

    Now lets talk Boldin. I'm a Boldin fan but that is tempered. If the signings were reversed I would be excited about Boldon for his blocking, toughness and professionalism but I would be concerned that Wilson would know how to make Boldin productive. He is not like Harvin that is good at getting open. He is a big body receiver that will man handle DB's and put himself in favorable position to catch a pass. The problem is that most inexperienced QB's don't have the understanding of what that means. They look for receivers to either be open, breaking open or coming back for the ball. When they see a receiver who appears covered they move on to the next target. Keapernick (just like Wilson would) will have to prove he can recognize when Bolden is in position to catch a pass. He will also have to display great touch, finesse and timing to put the ball where Boldin has the best chance to come down with it. This negates Keapernicks arm strength and requires he have the ability to drop the ball into the best position for Boldin. This will actually be a very good test for Keapernick to show he has the cerebral ability to identify and process while also having the touch, finesse and timing to execute the pass. If he doesn't then Boldin is taking up 6 million of your cap space and a roster spot for a position that might have been better suited playing Lockette in.

    If the Niners would have signed Harvin I would be simply crapping my pants and saying I don't like the Harvin move, but it's not because i don't like Harvin...I just think the price was too high and it'll bite them later.



    A lot there to respond to but I’ll do my best…

    Don’t misunderstand what I mean when I say next weekend is when the fun starts. I’m an NFL Draft addict. I’ve been watching it since 1989. I’ve recorded it since I had a VCR. The advent of the DVR is a godsend and allows me to record it on both ESPN and NFL Network. I love it. Can’t get enough.

    It isn’t just the draft that’s based on hype….ANYTHING done in the offseason is hype. Harvin improving the Seahawks. Boldin improving the Niners. Assumpions. Hype. That’s kinda the entire point about the “off-season champs”. Personally I don’t really think that the Niners or Seahawks are in contention for the “off-season champions” award. While the Harvin move was really big, none of the other moves have been nearly as big. Maybe during the season they will turn out to be impactful, but you just don’t know. I’m not a fan as I’ve said before. The Dolphons are an example to me of an "offseason champ". HUGE free agent signings that I don't think will net them anything. Free Agency is fools gold.

    As for the Niner moves, NONE of them will be enormously impactful in my opinion. Boldin won’t be a 1000 yard receiver. Asomugha won’t be the same guy…but it was worth giving him a shot. He very well may not make the roster. I like Dorsey, but I am in no way expecting him to suddenly be worthy of the top 5 pick that got him to KC. I don’t see him in those terms. I see him as a possible replacement for an underperforming Sopoaga at half the price.

    That kinda leads me to what I meant about the price for Harvin. I didn’t just mean the contract. I meant the combination of the contract, and 1, a 7, and another 3 next year. Those picks are precious…especially for teams like SF and Seattle. The downside of drafting well is that you can’t keep all of your players. It’s too expensive. You need to get a bunch of picks to fill holes cheaply for 4 or 5 years. The 49ers ran into this already with Dashon Goldson. You guys will feel the pinch soon as well…particularly when Wilson completes his 3rd year. Of course its gonna cost a lot of $$$$$ when Crabtrees contract is up….but it won’t cost three draft picks. If they elect NOT to resign him, they will try to replace him with a guy who takes ONE pick and then has a contract that’s preset and he’s bound to it for 4 or 5 years. THAT is the point I was making in regards to Harvin.

    I don’t give 2 sh*ts about draft grade. Nobody knows how good these picks will be. As I stated before, the fun starts for me because I love the draft process in general and the Niners have a ton of picks. The possibilities are what makes it fun.

    As for the Avril and Bennett signings…I just can’t stand Avril. I think he’s way, way overrated. I think he benefitted from both the Wide 9 and from having Suh in the middle. Even with that, he had 9.5 sacks last year and Detroit didn’t try very hard to keep him. I’m just not a fan. Bennett? Just not jumping up and down for that one. Is it a BAD signing? No…I just don’t see it as a big deal.

    The Niners signings to me were just maintenance. None of them make the team a much better team. They were just small moves to fill some holes in depth. As I said before though, the off-season is a net negative. They need to address FS and #2 TE. Hopefully they are able to do so in the draft.

    As for your comments in regards to Kaep and Boldin…Kaep has already shown that ability. It doesn’t get a lot of pub, but if you watch a pass he made to Kyle Williams on Monday Night against the Bears or to Vernon Davis vs the Packers you can see that he can loft the ball up and put it right on a guys hands when he’s covered. Certainly, he and Boldin need to work on the chemistry just as all WRs and QBs do, but Kaep has already shown that he can do that.

    Finally…your last comment…lol. It made me laugh, but I stand by my original comment. Harvin WILL make the Seahawks a better team IMO, but long term I still don’t lke the move. The combination of picks and $$$$ is just to high for me. If I were in that position, I’d rather have Tavon Austin. Its not because Tavon is better…it’s because even if you have to trade up to get him, he’s still on that rookie deal. It’s just my opinion and I’m sure you will disagree with it. ;-)
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  • Why does everything between these two fan bases have to be

    "explained to you the best I can" What bullshit on both sides.

    Why can't both sides have and opinion without everyone getting all pissy about it?

    :roll:
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    RichNhansom wrote:Next weekend is when the fun starts? If your a Niner fan then yes I agree but that is most certainly all going to be based on hype. So yes next weekend the hypes starts and obviously it will be fun for 49er fans. Just remember one thing. You have to play the games. Or in your case, they need to prove they can play at an NFL level and do it better than Jenkins did. Keep this in mind when you get excited about the draft picks you bring in because you and many other Niner fans have been very diligent in pointing out championship off seasons and the only thing worse than winning FA is winning the draft.

    Last year everyone gave the Seahawks a D or worse and then Wagner, Wilson and Irvin happened. In fact the last time I remember the Seahawks having a good draft grade after the draft was when we took Aaron Curry 4th overall.

    If you think the price was to high for Harvin, your going to have a meltdown when/if they resign Crabtree. It is what it is. We as Seahawks fans are hoping this FO that put in a 4 year plan and is now considered one of the best teams in the league coming into the start of their 4th season, actually does have a plan that is being realized but more importantly isn't so short sighted to not think beyond 4 years. I would loved to have gotten harvin for a late 7th and a league minimum contract but it is what it is and assuming it will cost the team dearly in some way in the future ignores that this FO has proven beyond any doubt that they know how to plan and have factored in everything that bringing Harvin in costs.

    I'm gonna trust Pete/John on the Avril signing no matter what his previous scheme. Consider we traded Daryl Tapp to the Eagles for a 4th round pick and Ohh by the way, got them to throw in Chris Clemons who has been a consistent 10+ a year sack guy. I think these guys know how to identify the talent they are looking at and utilize it. Clemmons was an after thought in Philly only to become a complete stud in Seattle.

    Bennett has graded out better than Jason Jones in nearly every statistical category while remaining healthy. Jones was brought in on a prove it contract and proved he couldn't be relied upon to stay healthy but when he was he made us significantly better. Now take that healthy version and improve it in performance and what is not to like about the signing? Unless your a Niner fan of course. But the move makes perfect sense, like it or not.

    You like the Niner moves because you have justified them but from an outside perspective there are much bigger question marks than you or your faithful want to realize. Asomugha is a safe move in that it is cheap but come on now, there is nothing beyond hope that he is a strong addition. Likewise he is not a gamble so no big but really at this point the acquisition should be viewed exactly as the "no big". If he helps then great and if not no big deal.

    Dorsey will be asked to do something he has never done, Play NT. He may have been miscast in KC but that is yet to be proven and the Niners are currently pegging him to be your starter at NT. Truth is he might end up being a very important player but it won't be at NT it will be replacing the 34 year old Justin Smith. That is his natural position in your scheme. Will he be as good as the the #4 overall pick who has been to 4 probowls with all pro honors? I don't know, maybe but that is still to be determined.

    Now lets talk Boldin. I'm a Boldin fan but that is tempered. If the signings were reversed I would be excited about Boldon for his blocking, toughness and professionalism but I would be concerned that Wilson would know how to make Boldin productive. He is not like Harvin that is good at getting open. He is a big body receiver that will man handle DB's and put himself in favorable position to catch a pass. The problem is that most inexperienced QB's don't have the understanding of what that means. They look for receivers to either be open, breaking open or coming back for the ball. When they see a receiver who appears covered they move on to the next target. Keapernick (just like Wilson would) will have to prove he can recognize when Bolden is in position to catch a pass. He will also have to display great touch, finesse and timing to put the ball where Boldin has the best chance to come down with it. This negates Keapernicks arm strength and requires he have the ability to drop the ball into the best position for Boldin. This will actually be a very good test for Keapernick to show he has the cerebral ability to identify and process while also having the touch, finesse and timing to execute the pass. If he doesn't then Boldin is taking up 6 million of your cap space and a roster spot for a position that might have been better suited playing Lockette in.

    If the Niners would have signed Harvin I would be simply crapping my pants and saying I don't like the Harvin move, but it's not because i don't like Harvin...I just think the price was too high and it'll bite them later.



    A lot there to respond to but I’ll do my best…

    Don’t misunderstand what I mean when I say next weekend is when the fun starts. I’m an NFL Draft addict. I’ve been watching it since 1989. I’ve recorded it since I had a VCR. The advent of the DVR is a godsend and allows me to record it on both ESPN and NFL Network. I love it. Can’t get enough.

    Makes sense. Thanks for explaining.

    It isn’t just the draft that’s based on hype….ANYTHING done in the offseason is hype. Harvin improving the Seahawks. Boldin improving the Niners. Assumpions. Hype. That’s kinda the entire point about the “off-season champs”. Personally I don’t really think that the Niners or Seahawks are in contention for the “off-season champions” award. While the Harvin move was really big, none of the other moves have been nearly as big. Maybe during the season they will turn out to be impactful, but you just don’t know. I’m not a fan as I’ve said before. The Dolphons are an example to me of an "offseason champ". HUGE free agent signings that I don't think will net them anything. Free Agency is fools gold.

    Makes sense.

    As for the Niner moves, NONE of them will be enormously impactful in my opinion. Boldin won’t be a 1000 yard receiver. Asomugha won’t be the same guy…but it was worth giving him a shot. He very well may not make the roster. I like Dorsey, but I am in no way expecting him to suddenly be worthy of the top 5 pick that got him to KC. I don’t see him in those terms. I see him as a possible replacement for an underperforming Sopoaga at half the price.

    Fair enough. I'm curious how he will work out for you guys also.

    That kinda leads me to what I meant about the price for Harvin. I didn’t just mean the contract. I meant the combination of the contract, and 1, a 7, and another 3 next year. Those picks are precious…especially for teams like SF and Seattle. The downside of drafting well is that you can’t keep all of your players. It’s too expensive. You need to get a bunch of picks to fill holes cheaply for 4 or 5 years. The 49ers ran into this already with Dashon Goldson. You guys will feel the pinch soon as well…particularly when Wilson completes his 3rd year. Of course its gonna cost a lot of $$$$$ when Crabtrees contract is up….but it won’t cost three draft picks. If they elect NOT to resign him, they will try to replace him with a guy who takes ONE pick and then has a contract that’s preset and he’s bound to it for 4 or 5 years. THAT is the point I was making in regards to Harvin.

    As for draft picks being precious, I agree but not for the same reasons. Having a bunch of draft picks gives you flexibility to move around. To trade up if think your guy won't be there but is worthy of additional picks to acquire. I doubt the Niners are going to be drafting 13 players or the Seahawks 10. It's to much for either team when you consider the needs of each team, the time to evaluate each player and the roster spots available. I would be surprised if either team leaves the draft with more than 7 players, 8 max. That means you are either trading up or out for the next year.

    As for multiple picks for Harvin, you just said it yourself. You would rather have Austin even if it means trading up for him which I think is pretty obvious we would have to so then the next question comes in. How much would we need to trade to take Austin? Will he be available at #20? That's essentially what we gave up for Harvin. Rumors are bouncing he might go top 10. What would that cost? Basically your saying you would pass up on Harvin for a chance at Austin. I can't agree with that when you have no Guarantee he will even be within your reach or that he will be anywhere near the caliber we already know Harvin is. I understand your point but your FO was also in the bidding for him and they obviously weren't going to get him for a 3rd and 5 mill a year so they placed value on him as well.

    It is alot to pay for a player but I can understand why the thinking is there, I can also understand why they didn't want the Niners to get him. That would have been scary and IMO very helpful to Kaepernick's development. As for the contract I have no reason to think this FO hasn't factored it in so it doesn't make sense for me to stress about it.


    I don’t give 2 sh*ts about draft grade. Nobody knows how good these picks will be. As I stated before, the fun starts for me because I love the draft process in general and the Niners have a ton of picks. The possibilities are what makes it fun.

    As for the Avril and Bennett signings…I just can’t stand Avril. I think he’s way, way overrated. I think he benefitted from both the Wide 9 and from having Suh in the middle. Even with that, he had 9.5 sacks last year and Detroit didn’t try very hard to keep him. I’m just not a fan. Bennett? Just not jumping up and down for that one. Is it a BAD signing? No…I just don’t see it as a big deal.

    Avril is coming in to play the Leo for us. He will be the starter at least until Clemons returns. He may not be as good as Clemons, we don't know for sure but he is essentially the same player and has ten times the resume that Clemons had coming in. No doubt he benefited from Suh but he will benefit from our secondary here so tomato tomoto. I love that he passed up a 3 year 30 million dollar offer (that is trying to resign him by the way) and is now on a 1 year prove it contract. You say the guys you brought in are there because they want a ring, well Avril and Bennett both are here for that reason plus to prove they are worthy of big contracts. It is why they signed short deals. Bennet is better than Jones based on past performance and with much less injury history. What is not to like and neither of these guys are on big contracts. If they perform as expected then it is a major win. If not then no big. the cost was minimal.

    The Niners signings to me were just maintenance. None of them make the team a much better team. They were just small moves to fill some holes in depth. As I said before though, the off-season is a net negative. They need to address FS and #2 TE. Hopefully they are able to do so in the draft.

    As for your comments in regards to Kaep and Boldin…Kaep has already shown that ability. It doesn’t get a lot of pub, but if you watch a pass he made to Kyle Williams on Monday Night against the Bears or to Vernon Davis vs the Packers you can see that he can loft the ball up and put it right on a guys hands when he’s covered. Certainly, he and Boldin need to work on the chemistry just as all WRs and QBs do, but Kaep has already shown that he can do that.

    I haven't seen that and have watched nearly every snap of Kaepernick. Not calling you a liar but I haven't noticed it. This is a wait and see for me. If Keap can make Boldin productive it will earn a ton of respect from me. Right now I am just not sure.

    Finally…your last comment…lol. It made me laugh, but I stand by my original comment. Harvin WILL make the Seahawks a better team IMO, but long term I still don’t lke the move. The combination of picks and $$$$ is just to high for me. If I were in that position, I’d rather have Tavon Austin. Its not because Tavon is better…it’s because even if you have to trade up to get him, he’s still on that rookie deal. It’s just my opinion and I’m sure you will disagree with it. ;-)
    The Lion has no interest in the opinion of the sheep.
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  • The Radish wrote:Why does everything between these two fan bases have to be

    "explained to you the best I can" What bullshit on both sides.

    Why can't both sides have and opinion without everyone getting all pissy about it?

    :roll:


    For the record Les, I didn't read it like that. I think it had more to do with the long post. No worries.
    The Lion has no interest in the opinion of the sheep.
    RichNhansom
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  • RichNhansom wrote:
    The Radish wrote:Why does everything between these two fan bases have to be

    "explained to you the best I can" What bullshit on both sides.

    Why can't both sides have and opinion without everyone getting all pissy about it?

    :roll:


    For the record Les, I didn't read it like that. I think it had more to do with the long post. No worries.


    Correct. Thats what I meant. Wasn't trying to be chippy.
    Marvin49
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  • RichNhansom wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    RichNhansom wrote:Next weekend is when the fun starts? If your a Niner fan then yes I agree but that is most certainly all going to be based on hype. So yes next weekend the hypes starts and obviously it will be fun for 49er fans. Just remember one thing. You have to play the games. Or in your case, they need to prove they can play at an NFL level and do it better than Jenkins did. Keep this in mind when you get excited about the draft picks you bring in because you and many other Niner fans have been very diligent in pointing out championship off seasons and the only thing worse than winning FA is winning the draft.

    Last year everyone gave the Seahawks a D or worse and then Wagner, Wilson and Irvin happened. In fact the last time I remember the Seahawks having a good draft grade after the draft was when we took Aaron Curry 4th overall.

    If you think the price was to high for Harvin, your going to have a meltdown when/if they resign Crabtree. It is what it is. We as Seahawks fans are hoping this FO that put in a 4 year plan and is now considered one of the best teams in the league coming into the start of their 4th season, actually does have a plan that is being realized but more importantly isn't so short sighted to not think beyond 4 years. I would loved to have gotten harvin for a late 7th and a league minimum contract but it is what it is and assuming it will cost the team dearly in some way in the future ignores that this FO has proven beyond any doubt that they know how to plan and have factored in everything that bringing Harvin in costs.

    I'm gonna trust Pete/John on the Avril signing no matter what his previous scheme. Consider we traded Daryl Tapp to the Eagles for a 4th round pick and Ohh by the way, got them to throw in Chris Clemons who has been a consistent 10+ a year sack guy. I think these guys know how to identify the talent they are looking at and utilize it. Clemmons was an after thought in Philly only to become a complete stud in Seattle.

    Bennett has graded out better than Jason Jones in nearly every statistical category while remaining healthy. Jones was brought in on a prove it contract and proved he couldn't be relied upon to stay healthy but when he was he made us significantly better. Now take that healthy version and improve it in performance and what is not to like about the signing? Unless your a Niner fan of course. But the move makes perfect sense, like it or not.

    You like the Niner moves because you have justified them but from an outside perspective there are much bigger question marks than you or your faithful want to realize. Asomugha is a safe move in that it is cheap but come on now, there is nothing beyond hope that he is a strong addition. Likewise he is not a gamble so no big but really at this point the acquisition should be viewed exactly as the "no big". If he helps then great and if not no big deal.

    Dorsey will be asked to do something he has never done, Play NT. He may have been miscast in KC but that is yet to be proven and the Niners are currently pegging him to be your starter at NT. Truth is he might end up being a very important player but it won't be at NT it will be replacing the 34 year old Justin Smith. That is his natural position in your scheme. Will he be as good as the the #4 overall pick who has been to 4 probowls with all pro honors? I don't know, maybe but that is still to be determined.

    Now lets talk Boldin. I'm a Boldin fan but that is tempered. If the signings were reversed I would be excited about Boldon for his blocking, toughness and professionalism but I would be concerned that Wilson would know how to make Boldin productive. He is not like Harvin that is good at getting open. He is a big body receiver that will man handle DB's and put himself in favorable position to catch a pass. The problem is that most inexperienced QB's don't have the understanding of what that means. They look for receivers to either be open, breaking open or coming back for the ball. When they see a receiver who appears covered they move on to the next target. Keapernick (just like Wilson would) will have to prove he can recognize when Bolden is in position to catch a pass. He will also have to display great touch, finesse and timing to put the ball where Boldin has the best chance to come down with it. This negates Keapernicks arm strength and requires he have the ability to drop the ball into the best position for Boldin. This will actually be a very good test for Keapernick to show he has the cerebral ability to identify and process while also having the touch, finesse and timing to execute the pass. If he doesn't then Boldin is taking up 6 million of your cap space and a roster spot for a position that might have been better suited playing Lockette in.

    If the Niners would have signed Harvin I would be simply crapping my pants and saying I don't like the Harvin move, but it's not because i don't like Harvin...I just think the price was too high and it'll bite them later.



    A lot there to respond to but I’ll do my best…

    Don’t misunderstand what I mean when I say next weekend is when the fun starts. I’m an NFL Draft addict. I’ve been watching it since 1989. I’ve recorded it since I had a VCR. The advent of the DVR is a godsend and allows me to record it on both ESPN and NFL Network. I love it. Can’t get enough.

    Makes sense. Thanks for explaining.

    It isn’t just the draft that’s based on hype….ANYTHING done in the offseason is hype. Harvin improving the Seahawks. Boldin improving the Niners. Assumpions. Hype. That’s kinda the entire point about the “off-season champs”. Personally I don’t really think that the Niners or Seahawks are in contention for the “off-season champions” award. While the Harvin move was really big, none of the other moves have been nearly as big. Maybe during the season they will turn out to be impactful, but you just don’t know. I’m not a fan as I’ve said before. The Dolphons are an example to me of an "offseason champ". HUGE free agent signings that I don't think will net them anything. Free Agency is fools gold.

    Makes sense.

    As for the Niner moves, NONE of them will be enormously impactful in my opinion. Boldin won’t be a 1000 yard receiver. Asomugha won’t be the same guy…but it was worth giving him a shot. He very well may not make the roster. I like Dorsey, but I am in no way expecting him to suddenly be worthy of the top 5 pick that got him to KC. I don’t see him in those terms. I see him as a possible replacement for an underperforming Sopoaga at half the price.

    Fair enough. I'm curious how he will work out for you guys also.

    That kinda leads me to what I meant about the price for Harvin. I didn’t just mean the contract. I meant the combination of the contract, and 1, a 7, and another 3 next year. Those picks are precious…especially for teams like SF and Seattle. The downside of drafting well is that you can’t keep all of your players. It’s too expensive. You need to get a bunch of picks to fill holes cheaply for 4 or 5 years. The 49ers ran into this already with Dashon Goldson. You guys will feel the pinch soon as well…particularly when Wilson completes his 3rd year. Of course its gonna cost a lot of $$$$$ when Crabtrees contract is up….but it won’t cost three draft picks. If they elect NOT to resign him, they will try to replace him with a guy who takes ONE pick and then has a contract that’s preset and he’s bound to it for 4 or 5 years. THAT is the point I was making in regards to Harvin.

    As for draft picks being precious, I agree but not for the same reasons. Having a bunch of draft picks gives you flexibility to move around. To trade up if think your guy won't be there but is worthy of additional picks to acquire. I doubt the Niners are going to be drafting 13 players or the Seahawks 10. It's to much for either team when you consider the needs of each team, the time to evaluate each player and the roster spots available. I would be surprised if either team leaves the draft with more than 7 players, 8 max. That means you are either trading up or out for the next year.

    As for multiple picks for Harvin, you just said it yourself. You would rather have Austin even if it means trading up for him which I think is pretty obvious we would have to so then the next question comes in. How much would we need to trade to take Austin? Will he be available at #20? That's essentially what we gave up for Harvin. Rumors are bouncing he might go top 10. What would that cost? Basically your saying you would pass up on Harvin for a chance at Austin. I can't agree with that when you have no Guarantee he will even be within your reach or that he will be anywhere near the caliber we already know Harvin is. I understand your point but your FO was also in the bidding for him and they obviously weren't going to get him for a 3rd and 5 mill a year so they placed value on him as well.

    It is alot to pay for a player but I can understand why the thinking is there, I can also understand why they didn't want the Niners to get him. That would have been scary and IMO very helpful to Kaepernick's development. As for the contract I have no reason to think this FO hasn't factored it in so it doesn't make sense for me to stress about it.


    I don’t give 2 sh*ts about draft grade. Nobody knows how good these picks will be. As I stated before, the fun starts for me because I love the draft process in general and the Niners have a ton of picks. The possibilities are what makes it fun.

    As for the Avril and Bennett signings…I just can’t stand Avril. I think he’s way, way overrated. I think he benefitted from both the Wide 9 and from having Suh in the middle. Even with that, he had 9.5 sacks last year and Detroit didn’t try very hard to keep him. I’m just not a fan. Bennett? Just not jumping up and down for that one. Is it a BAD signing? No…I just don’t see it as a big deal.

    Avril is coming in to play the Leo for us. He will be the starter at least until Clemons returns. He may not be as good as Clemons, we don't know for sure but he is essentially the same player and has ten times the resume that Clemons had coming in. No doubt he benefited from Suh but he will benefit from our secondary here so tomato tomoto. I love that he passed up a 3 year 30 million dollar offer (that is trying to resign him by the way) and is now on a 1 year prove it contract. You say the guys you brought in are there because they want a ring, well Avril and Bennett both are here for that reason plus to prove they are worthy of big contracts. It is why they signed short deals. Bennet is better than Jones based on past performance and with much less injury history. What is not to like and neither of these guys are on big contracts. If they perform as expected then it is a major win. If not then no big. the cost was minimal.

    The Niners signings to me were just maintenance. None of them make the team a much better team. They were just small moves to fill some holes in depth. As I said before though, the off-season is a net negative. They need to address FS and #2 TE. Hopefully they are able to do so in the draft.

    As for your comments in regards to Kaep and Boldin…Kaep has already shown that ability. It doesn’t get a lot of pub, but if you watch a pass he made to Kyle Williams on Monday Night against the Bears or to Vernon Davis vs the Packers you can see that he can loft the ball up and put it right on a guys hands when he’s covered. Certainly, he and Boldin need to work on the chemistry just as all WRs and QBs do, but Kaep has already shown that he can do that.

    I haven't seen that and have watched nearly every snap of Kaepernick. Not calling you a liar but I haven't noticed it. This is a wait and see for me. If Keap can make Boldin productive it will earn a ton of respect from me. Right now I am just not sure.

    Finally…your last comment…lol. It made me laugh, but I stand by my original comment. Harvin WILL make the Seahawks a better team IMO, but long term I still don’t lke the move. The combination of picks and $$$$ is just to high for me. If I were in that position, I’d rather have Tavon Austin. Its not because Tavon is better…it’s because even if you have to trade up to get him, he’s still on that rookie deal. It’s just my opinion and I’m sure you will disagree with it. ;-)


    Absolutely agree about the number of picks. Niners won't take 13 players. They simply don't have that many roster spots. They'll trade up and trade out just as they did last year. The Niners already have 9 picks next year as it is (an extra 2 or 3 depending on how Alex does in KC and an extra 7) and probably 2 or 3 more for free agent losses. Outside of Dorsey and Dawson (who both signed small contracts), all of the 49er moves have been trades or players that were cut by their previous teams (so don't count against the comp pick formula). Don't be surprised if the end up with 13 or 14 picks again next year. They have already lost Goldson, Walker, Jean-Francios, and Sopoaga...all to contracts larger than Dorsey. They'll probably get at least another 3rd.

    Totally agree that the best thing that many oicks does is provide flexibility. It also allows you to take a stab at injured players you can stash away (something they did this year with OG Joe Looney and might do again on someone like Marcus Lattimore). BTW, My picks for those first 2 picks are Jonathan Cyprien and Margus Hunt....which pretty much guarantees that they'll take neither. ;-)

    I still think tho that it's important to have those picks to cheaply replenish your roster. When you draft really well, those guys are going to need to get paid. The Niners have already started resigning their guys....Bowman and Anthony Davis were both signed 2 years early. Iupati is next. Crabtee, Kaep, and Aldon will all need new contracts. There is a very good shot that Crab will be the odd man out. You just can't pay everyone. Thats why those picks are so important. You guys are gonna see that soon. WHen Wilson and Sherman start looking for those new contracts, you're gonna feel the squeeze. If you are correct on Avril and Bennett and they play really well....they are going to be looking for huge contracts as well.

    I always understood why Avril and Bennett signed. They are looking for a payday. They wanted to find a good team to produce big numbers and then cash in.

    I guess the best way I can explain what I think about Harvin is to look at Darrelle Revis. The Niners were rumored to be in the middle of that too. I don't buy it. I don't buy they were in it for Harvin either. I think people see all those picks and connect the dots. It never made any sense tho. Would I love to have Revis? Of course. Do I want to give up those picks and that money. NO. Bad move. I'm very happy that they are NOT going to do that deal even though I'd love to have him on the team.

    Deion is a good example. The Niners signed him in '94, but he came in on a small contract, no draft picks and just wanted the ring. He went to Dallas the next year on a HUGE contract and it ended up biting the Cowboys later. Having Deion meant there were other players they couldn't keep and free agents they couldn't compete for. THATS what I'm talking about.

    Short term tho, Harvin is scary.
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  • Holy walls of text batman! You guys are nuts.
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  • DavidSeven wrote:
    bestfightstory wrote:How will we Seahawks keep pace?


    42-13 (should have been 42-6).

    49ers backed into a bye week and lucked into a flu-ridden Packers team. They didn't play any better against Atlanta in the afternoon than we did at 10am. They just caught an extra break or two. They were embarassed in the Super Bowl until the lights went out.

    People really need to get a grip. The Niners are the ones hoping to keep pace with Seattle's youth movement and drafting aptitude.


    Here we go again with that infamous "42=13" victory, didn't the 9ers beat you guys like 4 in a row before that?, I mean beating teams twice in a row is hard enough, and you guys wonder why nobody takes you guys serious, as a 9er fan, this is what i thought of that game:
    Rude144
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  • Rude144 wrote:
    DavidSeven wrote:
    bestfightstory wrote:How will we Seahawks keep pace?


    42-13 (should have been 42-6).

    49ers backed into a bye week and lucked into a flu-ridden Packers team. They didn't play any better against Atlanta in the afternoon than we did at 10am. They just caught an extra break or two. They were embarassed in the Super Bowl until the lights went out.

    People really need to get a grip. The Niners are the ones hoping to keep pace with Seattle's youth movement and drafting aptitude.


    Here we go again with that infamous "42=13" victory, didn't the 9ers beat you guys like 4 in a row before that?, I mean beating teams twice in a row is hard enough, and you guys wonder why nobody takes you guys serious, as a 9er fan, this is what i thought of that game:


    So, what you are saying is that the niners got their ass pounded so hard that they forgot what day of the week it was?
    I am a firm believer in luck, and I found that the harder I work the more I have of it.
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  • Rude144

    here's a little advice.. try not replying to every post on every thread with the same stupid video and comment that you lifted from the Web.. how about trying to use a little factual discussion in your post, you know with actual facts, perhaps stats to back your claims, something besides, we don't care you pounded us we beat you 4 in a row before that..... you might last a little longer... you think the niners has what it takes to beat us next year, tell us why..... Just a thought..
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  • that 42-12 game was just a bad day for the niners and a great day for the seahawks. plain and simple and it can and will happen to any team on any sunday. the hawks were playing lights out and the crowd was goin ballistic. too still even talk about that game is like cheering for a garbage touchdown.
    and niner fans are far more disappointed by another loss we had this season to think about it :(

    as far as these roster moves and the so called arms race and keeping up with each other, just look at the dream team.
    the team on paper doesnt mean shit. playing well is all that matters not whose lining up (maybe a little lol)


    CANNOT WAIT for week 2
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  • I hear what you're saying but Frankly i'm getting a little tired of this Dream Team Talk... the difference between us , niners and the Eagles is, the Eagles went out and pretty much revamped their entire defense , where as the niners and Seahawks already had a solid core in place on both sides of the ball, and have added key FA's to bolster an already potent team... we signed Harvin to add another dynamic to the offense, Avril and Bennett to add depth to the D Line and take over for Clemons till he can get healthy, and Winfield to solidify our weakest position in the secondary...

    niners have done much of the same, simply adding Key Vets to an already dominant team... tha's what the good teams do, have a good strong core of players, and bring in players to plug up any holes...

    as far as week two.,, your boys want's no part of the CLink or the twelth man.. Certainly not Kaepinnochio... lol I love that name.
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  • Forty9ers wrote:that 42-12 game was just a bad day for the niners and a great day for the seahawks. plain and simple and it can and will happen to any team on any sunday. the hawks were playing lights out and the crowd was goin ballistic. too still even talk about that game is like cheering for a garbage touchdown.
    and niner fans are far more disappointed by another loss we had this season to think about it :(

    as far as these roster moves and the so called arms race and keeping up with each other, just look at the dream team.
    the team on paper doesnt mean shit. playing well is all that matters not whose lining up (maybe a little lol)


    CANNOT WAIT for week 2


    This warms my heart just thinking about it, but being here to witness the misery is priceless. :mrgreen:
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    Bakergirl
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  • hawker84 wrote:I hear what you're saying but Frankly i'm getting a little tired of this Dream Team Talk... the difference between us , niners and the Eagles is, the Eagles went out and pretty much revamped their entire defense , where as the niners and Seahawks already had a solid core in place on both sides of the ball, and have added key FA's to bolster an already potent team... we signed Harvin to add another dynamic to the offense, Avril and Bennett to add depth to the D Line and take over for Clemons till he can get healthy, and Winfield to solidify our weakest position in the secondary...

    niners have done much of the same, simply adding Key Vets to an already dominant team... tha's what the good teams do, have a good strong core of players, and bring in players to plug up any holes...

    as far as week two.,, your boys want's no part of the CLink or the twelth man.. Certainly not Kaepinnochio... lol I love that name.


    I actually agree with you here. In '94 the 49ers signed a bunch of Free Agents to fill holes on D, but the core of that team was already built.


    The Dolphins to me are a better example this year of a "Dream Team" like scenario. Harvin will certainly be a big addition and Boldin should be good in SF as a #2 WR, but other than that I don't see the other additions as Hugely impactful. They improve depth and provide some competition...altho I do like the Winfield move as your slot corner.

    I think what the poster was saying that posted the Street Fighter vid was simply that while Seahawks fans have the numbers 42-13 etched in their brain, Niner fans just veiw it as a fluky score to a game that got out of hand and its the loss in Feb that really occupies their time. That isn't meant as an insult...its just the honest truth.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    hawker84 wrote:I hear what you're saying but Frankly i'm getting a little tired of this Dream Team Talk... the difference between us , niners and the Eagles is, the Eagles went out and pretty much revamped their entire defense , where as the niners and Seahawks already had a solid core in place on both sides of the ball, and have added key FA's to bolster an already potent team... we signed Harvin to add another dynamic to the offense, Avril and Bennett to add depth to the D Line and take over for Clemons till he can get healthy, and Winfield to solidify our weakest position in the secondary...

    niners have done much of the same, simply adding Key Vets to an already dominant team... tha's what the good teams do, have a good strong core of players, and bring in players to plug up any holes...

    as far as week two.,, your boys want's no part of the CLink or the twelth man.. Certainly not Kaepinnochio... lol I love that name.


    I actually agree with you here. In '94 the 49ers signed a bunch of Free Agents to fill holes on D, but the core of that team was already built.


    The Dolphins to me are a better example this year of a "Dream Team" like scenario. Harvin will certainly be a big addition and Boldin should be good in SF as a #2 WR, but other than that I don't see the other additions as Hugely impactful. They improve depth and provide some competition...altho I do like the Winfield move as your slot corner.

    I think what the poster was saying that posted the Street Fighter vid was simply that while Seahawks fans have the numbers 42-13 etched in their brain, Niner fans just veiw it as a fluky score to a game that got out of hand and its the loss in Feb that really occupies their time. That isn't meant as an insult...its just the honest truth.


    At least you can understand how silly it sounds every time we hear "5 rings" as a response.
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  • AbsolutNET wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    hawker84 wrote:I hear what you're saying but Frankly i'm getting a little tired of this Dream Team Talk... the difference between us , niners and the Eagles is, the Eagles went out and pretty much revamped their entire defense , where as the niners and Seahawks already had a solid core in place on both sides of the ball, and have added key FA's to bolster an already potent team... we signed Harvin to add another dynamic to the offense, Avril and Bennett to add depth to the D Line and take over for Clemons till he can get healthy, and Winfield to solidify our weakest position in the secondary...

    niners have done much of the same, simply adding Key Vets to an already dominant team... tha's what the good teams do, have a good strong core of players, and bring in players to plug up any holes...

    as far as week two.,, your boys want's no part of the CLink or the twelth man.. Certainly not Kaepinnochio... lol I love that name.


    I actually agree with you here. In '94 the 49ers signed a bunch of Free Agents to fill holes on D, but the core of that team was already built.


    The Dolphins to me are a better example this year of a "Dream Team" like scenario. Harvin will certainly be a big addition and Boldin should be good in SF as a #2 WR, but other than that I don't see the other additions as Hugely impactful. They improve depth and provide some competition...altho I do like the Winfield move as your slot corner.

    I think what the poster was saying that posted the Street Fighter vid was simply that while Seahawks fans have the numbers 42-13 etched in their brain, Niner fans just veiw it as a fluky score to a game that got out of hand and its the loss in Feb that really occupies their time. That isn't meant as an insult...its just the honest truth.


    At least you can understand how silly it sounds every time we hear "5 rings" as a response.


    Sorta....although I'm old enough to remember all of them (was born in '73 and they won the first one in Jan of '82 so they don't feel as ancient as people on here say).

    Still...that was some time ago.
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  • hawker84 wrote: Rude144

    here's a little advice.. try not replying to every post on every thread with the same stupid video and comment that you lifted from the Web.. how about trying to use a little factual discussion in your post, you know with actual facts, perhaps stats to back your claims, something besides, we don't care you pounded us we beat you 4 in a row before that..... you might last a little longer... you think the niners has what it takes to beat us next year, tell us why..... Just a thought..


    Straight from the niner forums...
    RockHawk wrote:This has turned into nothing but a personal attack, which goes against our forum rules...... I'll allow it.
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  • Forty9ers wrote:that 42-12 game was just a bad day for the niners and a great day for the seahawks. plain and simple and it can and will happen to any team on any sunday. the hawks were playing lights out and the crowd was goin ballistic. too still even talk about that game is like cheering for a garbage touchdown.
    and niner fans are far more disappointed by another loss we had this season to think about it :(

    as far as these roster moves and the so called arms race and keeping up with each other, just look at the dream team.
    the team on paper doesnt mean shit. playing well is all that matters not whose lining up (maybe a little lol)


    CANNOT WAIT for week 2



    This playing well thing is just like the Hype thing. Both teams need to prove they are worthy of the hype they are getting and just because you had a couple good seasons doesn't make you any less attached to that hype.

    We need Avril and Bennet to prove they can do in our system what they did in previous systems and you need someone to step up at nose tackle.

    We need Winfield to prove he can continue to play at the level he did last year and you need someone to step up and replace Goldston.

    We need Harvin to show he is the same play maker he was in Minny and you need Kaepernick to prove he can get the ball to Boldin and not just see him as covered.

    We need to prove we can play in the spot light and you need to prove you can replenish the holes that are currently vacant.

    I prefer our prove it list to yours.
    Avril and Bennet vs no one? Advantage Seattle.
    Winfield vs no one? Advantage Seattle.
    Harvin vs Boldin? Advantage Seattle.
    Prove we can play in the spot light (like our record indicates on nationally televised game) vs finding multiple suitable replacements without taking a drop in production? Advantage Seattle.

    You still have other question marks that come into play also. Will Gore be productive beyond 30? Will Justin Smith stay healthy at 34? Can Harbaugh actually substitute without a massive drop off in production?

    Like I said, I like our prove it lise much better.

    Good luck answering all the questions your team has going into this season.
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  • RichNhansom wrote:
    Forty9ers wrote:that 42-12 game was just a bad day for the niners and a great day for the seahawks. plain and simple and it can and will happen to any team on any sunday. the hawks were playing lights out and the crowd was goin ballistic. too still even talk about that game is like cheering for a garbage touchdown.
    and niner fans are far more disappointed by another loss we had this season to think about it :(

    as far as these roster moves and the so called arms race and keeping up with each other, just look at the dream team.
    the team on paper doesnt mean shit. playing well is all that matters not whose lining up (maybe a little lol)


    CANNOT WAIT for week 2



    This playing well thing is just like the Hype thing. Both teams need to prove they are worthy of the hype they are getting and just because you had a couple good seasons doesn't make you any less attached to that hype.

    We need Avril and Bennet to prove they can do in our system what they did in previous systems and you need someone to step up at nose tackle.

    We need Winfield to prove he can continue to play at the level he did last year and you need someone to step up and replace Goldston.

    We need Harvin to show he is the same play maker he was in Minny and you need Kaepernick to prove he can get the ball to Boldin and not just see him as covered.

    We need to prove we can play in the spot light and you need to prove you can replenish the holes that are currently vacant.

    I prefer our prove it list to yours.
    Avril and Bennet vs no one? Advantage Seattle.
    Winfield vs no one? Advantage Seattle.
    Harvin vs Boldin? Advantage Seattle.
    Prove we can play in the spot light (like our record indicates on nationally televised game) vs finding multiple suitable replacements without taking a drop in production? Advantage Seattle.

    You still have other question marks that come into play also. Will Gore be productive beyond 30? Will Justin Smith stay healthy at 34? Can Harbaugh actually substitute without a massive drop off in production?

    Like I said, I like our prove it lise much better.

    Good luck answering all the questions your team has going into this season.

    Love the optimism. I think it's still a bit premature. Let's get through the draft, OTA's, minicamps and into training camp. As of RIGHT NOW .... I think the Hawks have a slight advantage. I'll come back on Friday and talk some more about this, and probably more over the weekend as the draft rolls along.
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