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 Post subject: Investing in Our Infrastructure
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:10 pm 
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I would love to begin a discussion on our infrastructure. If you guys do not mind, I am going to "piggy-back" on a comment I made in another thread. I think it is relevant and should be a part of the coming dialogue.

I hope the mods let me get away with this :D

Thunderbird wrote:
pehawk wrote:
I know some will want to keep Flynn, but I think he gets traded. It makes to much cap sense, and it also goes along with this FO doing "right" by their players.

Flynn wants to start, and I think the Seahawks FO will do whatever they can, within reason, to facilitate Flynn's preference. I'm a proud Seahawks fan for a lot of reasons, but I was really proud of how the FO treated Tavaris last preseason. He was traded instead of being released outright; to give him some dignity (maybe there's a better word choice there) on the way out. Tjax EARNED that type of exit...he's one classy and tough SOB.

With all that, who would YOU want the Seahawks to bring in to back up Wilson? To keep this hypothetical within reasonable boundaries lets restrict it to 1 vet FA and 1 late round draft pick. Here’s a list of FA’s;

Brian Hoyer – ARI
Luke McCown – ATL
Joe Flacco – BAL
Tarvaris Jackson – BUF
Tyler Thigpen – BUF
Derek Anderson – CAR
Jason Campbell – CHI
Josh McCown – CHI
Bruce Gradkowski – CIN
Drew Stanton – IND
Brady Quinn – KC
Pat Devlin – MIA – (Ex)
Matt Moore – MIA
Chase Daniel – NO
David Carr – NYG
Matt Leinart – OAK
Charlie Batch – PIT
Byron Leftwich – PIT
Kellen Clemens – STL
Rex Grossman – WAS
Vince Young – FA
Sage Rosenfels – FA
Seneca Wallace – FA
Donovan McNabb – FA
A.J. Feeley – FA
Troy Smith – FA
Chris Redman – FA
John Beck – FA
Stephen McGee – FA
Jordan Palmer – FA
J.P. Loseman – FA

Of those, I’d LOVE Chase Daniels – but it would be a lateral move for him. So, as much as he’s ripped here, I’d prefer Tjack.

For the developmental QB, I’d REALLY prefer Denard Robinson just to be a nice toy. But, there’s no way I’d trust him to play a game or two at the position. So, I’m going to go Colin Klein or….crybaby’s brother Jordan Rogers. Picking Rogers on a gut hunch. So my QB depth chart would be;

1)Wilson
2)Tjack
3)JRogers

You?


After giving this some thought I am going to say that I would not one player on this list. I have not read the whole thread yet (maybe this has been suggested already).

We trade up and sacrifice some picks--on top of money--to get the most elite replacements that we can find for some aging, but elite players. The one to two years they have to acclimate to this team should be perfect. I am thinking about a replacement for Marshawn in a couple years. Or--even better--maybe some new big guys (on both sides) like Star Lotulelei (DT) or Chance Warmack (OG). Those lads would be awesome...the only question is who needs someone like Flynn, some cash and maybe some later draft picks?

umm...

The Jags
The Chiefs
The Jets
Philly?
The Cards (Bad trade because Flynn knows where the bodies are buried--IOW, he knows our DNA)
The Bills?

Who knows? We have a shit load of bargaining power right now. I cannot remember a time when the Hawks held such beautiful, high-ground. Every room that Pete and John walk into this off-season, they immediately hold the advantage and can run the table. They are in a place to build the perfect and young beast, that will last for years to come.

I have the flu right now, so I maybe speaking another language, but getting this off my chest seems to be making me feel a little better. Well, this, NyQuil, my lady and this stuff I just picked up called Northern Lights.


We need monster, rock-stars. Let us go get them.

Anyone else feel me?

Respectfully,

Mikey

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 Post subject: Re: Investing in Our Infrastructure
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:16 pm 
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What I wrote in response to Sir PeHawk's masterful prose, is in the following paragraphs:

After giving this some thought I am going to say that I would not want one player on this list. I have not read the whole thread yet (maybe this has been suggested already).

We trade up and sacrifice some picks--on top of money--to get the most elite replacements that we can find for some aging, but elite players. The one to two years they have to acclimate to this team should be perfect. I am thinking about a replacement for Marshawn in a couple years. Or--even better--maybe some new big guys (on both sides) like Star Lotulelei (DT) or Chance Warmack (OG). Those lads would be awesome...the only question is who needs someone like Flynn, some cash and maybe some later draft picks?

umm...

The Jags
The Chiefs
The Jets
Philly?
The Cards (Bad trade because Flynn knows where the bodies are buried--IOW, he knows our DNA)
The Bills?

Who knows? We have a shit load of bargaining power right now. I cannot remember a time when the Hawks held such beautiful, high-ground. Every room that Pete and John walk into this off-season, they immediately hold the advantage and can run the table. They are in a place to build the perfect and young beast, that will last for years to come.

I have the flu right now, so I maybe speaking another language, but getting this off my chest seems to be making me feel a little better. Well, this, NyQuil, my lady and this stuff I just picked up called Northern Lights.

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Last edited by Thunderbird on Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Investing in Our Infrastructure
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:16 pm 
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If I understand you correctly, JS probably does not agree with you. JS's mindset is not that lower round players can never be "elite".... It's more they have a lower chance of being elite.

I liken JS's approach to looking for players as throwing darts at a dartboard.... the more darts you have, the more you'll hit the center circle. Elite players can be found past the 1st round, just ask Russell Wilson, Richard Sherman, Geno Atkins, ect..

Anyways, JS is an amazing GM, so don't you want to give him as many picks as possible to work his magic? Only the dumbasses need to trade up to get the "known" elite players (Andrew Luck, Trent Richardson, every first round Guard), our GM is a genius who can work his magic in the later rounds, and I hope we take full advantage of that with some trade downs.


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 Post subject: Re: Investing in Our Infrastructure
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:27 pm 
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If we do trade Flynn I am with Gradkowski, he has backed on several teams and when asked stepped in and been successful, he's a bit older but thats ok also, we are going to get another guy to develop anyway. He will also be relatively cheap and is a know factor. He simply wins when asked to perform.

Oh and as far as trading up, if you have one guy that you feel can seperate you from the rest of the contenders and put you in the dance yes, if not then use your resources and trust your draft instincts and coaches. These guys have a knack at looking at skill sets no matter the win loss record of a team a guy plays on and seeing them in how they would use them.

There are a lot of fast 6'3 to 6'5 guys that are between 260 and 285 that are simply in a bad system or used wrong for their skill sets. Same goes for inside guys. I think we will turn something up draft or FA that isn't going to be a bank breaker. We pay our guys to perform and reward them for it. We don't for guys that have not or are living on reputation.

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 Post subject: Re: Investing in Our Infrastructure
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:36 pm 
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If you want to invest into our infrastructure you do it by developing players on your practice squad. You draft players for what they can become and help them achieve it. You don't draft players and ask them to do something that they cannot do. Trading Flynn is fine if the right price comes along. I think of that as draft picks so you can tailor people to your system.

That means looking for Kam's, Browner's, Branch, and Millers' replacement. 10 picks is a good start and hopefully we can add more. The Hawks have to look at what is replaceable in their system and no pay to much for role players.

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 Post subject: Re: Investing in Our Infrastructure
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:05 pm 
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Here is my whole thing with this.
We have a solid foundation of players.
Un like years gone by, we do not neat players at any position, we are in a situation where we can cherry pick what we want, and what we need is very few DT comes to mind right away.

We can draft a DT and hope he makes it.. we can wait till next year if this one doesnt work out, but the time is now. We could be waiting a long time to find that missing piece if we use the draft.

We need to find a partner and make a trade or go via FA.
I would be willing to give up the entire draft, throw in Flynn for a Bad ass DT that will put us in the SB for years to come.

The time is now my friends, we cannot sit around waiting for that elusive DT ala Cortez to pop up on our draft, it may never get here.
We cannot lose this window of opportunity, we must act and get it done with what ever it takes.

We do not need any starters other than the DT/DE.
Lets Do it.. Go Hawks!


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 Post subject: Re: Investing in Our Infrastructure
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:20 pm 
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I love the "we traded tjack for his dignity" statement. Lol yeah or maybe to not take a cap hit and get a 7th rounder instead...

Practice squad players. Great develop them so other teams can sign them. You cannot have hit prospects on the practice squad

I say either go with. Art approach or consider trading picks for the same round next year... Pretty safe to believe we should be a last 8 team next year that means 24 tradin partners would improve a fifth round pick traded for a fifth roun pick. Those trades will be there from teams in rebuild mode that sees a guy they like.


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 Post subject: Re: Investing in Our Infrastructure
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:43 am 
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I posted about this last off season, but statistically the best player drafted at a position has been more likely to go second or third then they have first. This was over a twenty year period up until 2010, but anecdotal evidence since then seems to still support this pretty well. The kicker to this is that the second and third players selected are also much, much better value. With unlimited space trading down would be the obvious strategy.

The wrinkle is that NFL teams do not have infinite roster spots. You can't just throw 10 running backs at a dartboard and then have a superstar emerge after a year. You need to be able to figure out who the hidden gems are very quickly, preferably without even needing any regular season game comparisons. Trading up can make sense if you are talking about a position with a learning curve where you only have room for one or two new players.

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 Post subject: Re: Investing in Our Infrastructure
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:48 am 
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More picks the better, also I love that we look at smaller school players and not just the big school 4 year starters. We would have never ended up with Lane, Johnson, or maybe even Wagner and Turbin with Ruskell.

I still would love to use a pick and a player for a higher pick or for more lower round picks and maybe a depth cart player from another team. Seattle made the player for position trade for Washington and that worked out well. Even if they don't end up with a player I wanted we'll be alright. Very unlikely with our scouting, Pete and John, that Seattle will pick 10 players and not have at least three make the team.

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 Post subject: Re: Investing in Our Infrastructure
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:11 am 
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There's no need to make a silly trade-up to get one of those guys. We have needs on the D-line, at LB and WR. I expect us to go WR with the first pick, then a mix of DL and LB after that

there is zero chance of us trading up for Chance Warmack. He's a future HoF guard and will be gone before pick 10.

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 Post subject: Re: Investing in Our Infrastructure
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:31 am 
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Sorry guys, we have another forum to discuss NFL & Draft prospects. How about we use them to speak of players not on our team someone might want?

Most of this seems NFL rather than draft so am moving it there. But I'm leaving a shadow here so more can gain access to it.

Thanks

:les:

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 Post subject: Re: Investing in Our Infrastructure
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:30 pm 
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I want beasts on both sides of the line and the depth to back them up.

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 Post subject: Re: Investing in Our Infrastructure
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:14 pm 
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I want some of those Lights u were talkin bout. :pimp:


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 Post subject: Re: Investing in Our Infrastructure
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:53 am 
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Here is the problem I think Seahawks will face if we go big splash in FA, most of the locker room players are making rookie minimums. They are all playing with a chip in their shoulder because of they are hungry and a fire under their belly to prove the world wrong. We have some veterans like Zach, Sidney, Clemons, Red and so on who blend in very well into this mix even though they are paid higher. If we add more, it will suck out the energy from the very foundation of this team. I don't think we will offer guaranteed long term contracts in FA like how they did with SR. They will continue to build from the draft and maybe add one or two middle of the road Free agents in my guess.

Well its anybodies guess what Pete and JS have in their mind, but usually go for humble, down to earth, hungry players who want to make a name for themselves.


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