Jimmy G

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Re: Jimmy G
Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:23 pm
  • Marvin49 wrote:
    Cyrus12 wrote:Nick Mullens might be the starter there before too long. Matt Cassel 2.0 doesnt look good


    Highly doubt it.

    Probably not with how much money they are paying him...someones head would roll very quickly. Guess we will see after a few real games are played
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Re: Jimmy G
Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:10 pm
  • Yeah he looked bad but this Broncos defense might be really damn good this year especially being coached by Vic Fangio now.
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Re: Jimmy G
Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:26 pm
  • I mean real talk....he looked pretty bad, but the o-line didn't do him any favors. He was pressured by Chubb twice, once untouched, and the interior line let the same guy bat down two separate passes.

    He did look a little nervous about getting hit though....which in hindsight is kinda to be expected in first live action post surgery.

    Still tho...it was a little alarming.

    Deebo looks good though and Solomon Thomas looks good when he plays inside.
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Re: Jimmy G
Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:50 pm
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:21 am
  • lol

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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:47 am
  • The 1st team offense looked collectively putrid last night.

    Somebody's stat line on six pass attempts is absolutely meaningless to me.

    What is meaningful to me is stuff that I seriously question about him popping up in those six pass attempts.

    By this what I mean is that he could have gone six for six with a TD instead of one for six with an INT and I'd still dislike it just as much. For pre-season in particular, outcome means practically nothing and process means everything.

    EXAMPLES:

    1) If that 50/50 ball with a free rusher in his face went for a TD instead of an INT I'd still hate it. That's a long developing route with a free rusher in the first offensive series of a game on your own 25 yard line. Throw the damn ball over everyone's heads into the sidelines, don't desperately heave up a 50/50 pass on an uncompleted route in that situation.

    2) On the second PBU (which just as easily could have been an INT) he needs to look off the curl defender to have room to make that throw, but instead he stares his receiver down which allows the hook to jump the route and make the PBU. The decision making on that route is just putrid too.

    3) My issue with the two tipped balls isn't that they were tipped (that's mostly the fault of a 3rd string OG and bad luck) and fell incomplete, it's that he didn't set his feet on two plays in which he had the time and room to throw from a firm base. That's a problem, regardless of if those passes both go for TDs due to coverage breakdowns or get tipped at the line.

    That's five of six passes that I have major issues with regardless of the outcome on them (the fifth was a screen, which I don't even really count as a pass attempt to begin with).

    It's his first live action in a year, but even if you want to make that argument, the best case scenario on it is that when he's feeling unsettled he falls back on very bad habits. I am NOT one of those 9ers fans (seemingly the majority of them) or Seahawks fans (some of them) who think Mullens should be starting (that's just silly), but the process on those incompletions was very, very bad, regardless of the outcomes.
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:52 am
  • Take out the papers and the trash.....
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:54 am
  • Marvin49 wrote:Deebo looks good though and Solomon Thomas looks good when he plays inside.


    Deebo's faster than I thought he was and showed good patience allowing blocks to set up around the back end. It's overstated obviously, but whoever first made the observation that Shanny wants WRs who play like RBs and RBs who play like WRs isn't entirely off base.


    Although we're all grading him on a major curve at this point I thought Thomas looked good playing both inside and outside.

    Just like last year, Mostert is just a ton of fun to watch.

    Tartt played really well, and Moore got his nose in there more than I was expecting (impossible to know what his role was in the passing game w/ the TV angles).
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:18 am
  • 28 mil a year for a guy with a handful of meaningless starts. Hilarious. I'm not buying the whole "rusty" argument. He looked scared, period.
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:27 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:28 mil a year for a guy with a handful of meaningless starts. Hilarious. I'm not buying the whole "rusty" argument. He looked scared, period.



    He's the 16th highest paid QB in the NFL this year.

    We don't know if he'll end up being better or worse than league average and both are obviously possible, but league average is the salary benchmark for 2019.
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:51 am
  • Not when he signed his deal. That was a ridiculous amount of $ to pay a guy who had won some meaningless games. NOW has nothing to do with the fact that they showed desperation.
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:22 am
  • That cap hit (16th among QBs) isn't bad this year, given that the team is in relative disarray and trying to figure things out anyway. And they do have that out after this year that results in three years of dead cap money that are $4.2/$2.8/$1.4 million. So far it hasn't been a huge gamble since they were missing so much last season that the $37 million cap hit didn't really impact things. And this year is only $19.35 million, which is what teams who have had to pay are shelling out for serviceable, not even good, quarterbacks.

    The worst case scenario for the 49ers this season is he does enough to seem like he might be worth it, then they don't take the out and get stuck with the last three years of the deal with $26 million+ cap hits and he really under performs. If he's not really blowing the doors off, they'll be looking at a group of mixed performances from this season trying to figure out if he's worth it, and will err on the side of keeping him, because the QB market is so tight.
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:45 am
  • Battle for the top spot, Kyler Murray or Jimmy Grab a Ho for worst QB in the NFC West right now.

    Jimmy may end up David Carr ish or Ric Mirer like now, once they get hurt they lose that edge and fearlessness and what made them a starter.
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:11 am
  • bmorepunk wrote:The worst case scenario for the 49ers this season is he does enough to seem like he might be worth it, then they don't take the out and get stuck with the last three years of the deal with $26 million+ cap hits and he really under performs. If he's not really blowing the doors off, they'll be looking at a group of mixed performances from this season trying to figure out if he's worth it, and will err on the side of keeping him, because the QB market is so tight.


    100% agreed, and great point.

    It's the Flacco-tier QBs that get teams in commitment traps and long-term trouble, IMO.

    (referring to younger Flacco, not current Flacco)
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:15 am
  • So they wasted a load of money on him last season but it's fine because they not wasting quite as much this season?
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:37 am
  • UK_Seahawk wrote:So they wasted a load of money on him last season but it's fine because they not wasting quite as much this season?


    Yeah, you get it.

    Sunk costs are a real thing.

    It's why I was agreeing with Bmore above, and why, given his contract structure, I'd much rather him be terrible this year than just good enough to keep, but not good enough to really do anything with.

    If you want the 9ers to suck for as long as possible, you DO NOT want him to suck and get benched. You want him to be mediocre.
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:05 am
  • LOL....

    ....I like how we have already written him off and are talking about the wasted $$$.

    It was three series in a preseason game and his first game action in 11 months after a torn ACL. LOL.

    I'm not buying the whole "rusty" argument. He looked scared, period.

    GTFO. LOL.

    I am making no predictions of excellence, but I think you guys are burying him a bit fast. LOL.

    It was 6 passes. SIX.
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:18 am
  • And one that should have been a pick 6. Sugar coat it all you want, he looked panicked and scared.
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:03 pm
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:And one that should have been a pick 6. Sugar coat it all you want, he looked panicked and scared.


    No sugar coating anything. In fact I was the first here to say he looked skittish.

    My point is its a very long road from having 6 bad passes after 11 months off and an ACL tear to he's a bust.

    People talk about the money all the time, but they do so in a vacuum...as if there was another option to keep him under contract. He was simply the next guy up. The money had to get spent anyway due to the CBA minimum requirements, they front-loaded the hell out of it, and they gave themselves an out.

    Will he be a superstar? Will he be a bust? No idea, but people talking like the book has already been written crack me up. Its wishful thinking. I''ve read the "he only has 10 starts" argument 1000 times, but it can just as easily be read the other way.

    Matt Ryan didn't excel in Shanahans system until year 2. Jimmy hasn't played enough in the system to reach that level of understanding.

    This isn't meant as an excuse. He didn't play well and made poor decisions. My point is that there is alot more story to tell before the book is written.
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:10 pm
  • ^^^^ Basically the same conclusion that Orr made on MMQB today:

    https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/08/20/jimmy ... er-broncos

    At the end of '17 when he won five straight I thought people declaring him as the next great thing seriously needed to pump their brakes, just as a think people declaring him as trash after a bad practice and six bad passes in a pre-season game seriously need to pump their brakes.

    If anyone wanted to bet on him being a top 10 quarterback OR a bottom 10 quarterback in the NFL this year I'd take that bet in a heartbeat, because we really don't know much yet, and that person would be giving me just over two thirds of the available outcomes.
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:18 pm
  • He was a Patriot, so he's always been overhyped.

    Going to a legacy team didn't help.

    Winning five straight games to close the season, forget about it.

    He's always been an unknown/mediocre QB who has potential. This preseason game did as much as his 7.5 full starts with the 49ers did the last two years to convince me of his caliber - nothing. They can get out of his contract. Reminds me of my stance on Goff when McVay was hired: we actually had the next years first round pick, so it was going to be a win/win - Goff either proved himself decent, or he was terrible and we would have had a high draft pick (and obviously would not have traded for Brandin Cooks).

    Niners are in that boat now - either he's good enough or he's not and they'll be drafting a QB next year. Mediocrity is possible, but I put that in the "not good enough" category - the Niners don't have enough talent for a mediocre QB to carry them outside of the top 10, so I imagine if they're picking inside the top 10, they'll be targeting a QB.
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:40 pm
  • Popeyejones wrote:^^^^ Basically the same conclusion that Orr made on MMQB today:

    https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/08/20/jimmy ... er-broncos

    At the end of '17 when he won five straight I thought people declaring him as the next great thing seriously needed to pump their brakes, just as a think people declaring him as trash after a bad practice and six bad passes in a pre-season game seriously need to pump their brakes.

    If anyone wanted to bet on him being a top 10 quarterback OR a bottom 10 quarterback in the NFL this year I'd take that bet in a heartbeat, because we really don't know much yet, and that person would be giving me just over two thirds of the available outcomes.

    Unless gamblers use a different form of math, Orr should check his math. He'd have less than 2/3rds of the available outcomes.

    Depending on how you determine what quantifies a top 10 or bottom 10 QB, this might actually be a worth while bet to take up.
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:01 pm
  • That's me, not Orr. The all caps on "OR" was confusing on my part and supposed to signal different bets/clauses.

    Even money Bet A would be top 10 and even money Bet B would be bottom 10. That's what I meant.
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:06 pm
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:11 pm
  • We have seen the effect a bad injury has on a QB here, Jim Zorn had a nasty ass broken leg and was never the same, he healed but just wasn't the same.
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:11 pm
  • I was not happy to see that performance yesterday. It had it's legit excuses that people can pull up (i.e. no game planning, no starters, Jimmy's rusty, Jimmy's scared), but it sucks that such a thing would happen and he didn't get a real drive off.

    It kinda reminds me of Kap's 2015 campaign before the regular season started. He didn't have an awful 2014 by any means, but it wasn't quite up to his standards. And the media was relentless in challenging him as if he was still a decent QB. The media affected his perception so much that he went over the top to change his style of play and never recovered.

    I'll say this about Jimmy:

    I see either stardom or perhaps we've yet again got another lightning in a bottle scenario (doubtful but after Kap, it feels like a curse for Niner QBs). Other QBs are seemingly allowed to be unaffected by defensive coordinators and media pressure it feels like.

    However there is no Alex Smith safe, good but not good enough, style of play here. If Garoppolo is going to resemble his play of old at some point, then it's definitely going to be a very high level of play that scares opponents.

    I'm not a spoiled football fan. If you ask me what I want in 2019, I just want JG to play 16 games minimum, post season if possible. I'm not going to ask him to be Joe Montana or anything. I really just want him to be what he is, for better or worse. Last year's injury gave the 49ers Bosa, but don't want anymore star players at the top of the draft for awhile....

    Don't want Alex Smith or a QB like him back (Mullens is just that, just an economy version). Smith to his credit once Harbaugh and Reid took hold of him had a rather high floor for a QB to never make you worry all that much - he'd be elite if he could be a playmaker more often like Wilson. But come January or against prime time teams, you knew it was gonna come down to whether he could channel a 1 in 15 type game.

    Ride or die. This entire football team's future hopes are rested on 10.
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:19 pm
  • Marvin49 wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:And one that should have been a pick 6. Sugar coat it all you want, he looked panicked and scared.


    No sugar coating anything. In fact I was the first here to say he looked skittish.

    My point is its a very long road from having 6 bad passes after 11 months off and an ACL tear to he's a bust.

    People talk about the money all the time, but they do so in a vacuum...as if there was another option to keep him under contract. He was simply the next guy up. The money had to get spent anyway due to the CBA minimum requirements, they front-loaded the hell out of it, and they gave themselves an out.

    Will he be a superstar? Will he be a bust? No idea, but people talking like the book has already been written crack me up. Its wishful thinking. I''ve read the "he only has 10 starts" argument 1000 times, but it can just as easily be read the other way.

    Matt Ryan didn't excel in Shanahans system until year 2. Jimmy hasn't played enough in the system to reach that level of understanding.

    This isn't meant as an excuse. He didn't play well and made poor decisions. My point is that there is alot more story to tell before the book is written.


    I really dgaf about Jimmy's salary.

    Alex Smith was $8M per year his last two years with the 49ers...…...a great "deal" perhaps the best deal in the league that year until Kap took over (which doesn't count really), but at the end of the day you either have it or you don't.

    I think going forward we're going to see some real philosophical issues at battle here:

    Sean McVay's coddling of Jared Goff
    Kyle Shanahan's non coddling of Matt Ryan, Jimmy G, etc....

    It's very possible that Jimmy G could look "great" going back to the old 2017 pared down playbook and Shanahan in the helmet. He had 3 offseasons before he started a game in the Patriots system which I'm sure isn't as complex as Shanahan's (and hence he looked good in NE as well).

    But what's better for overall QB growth?

    Goff is seen as the higher floor QB right now for sure, but not the higher ceiling in many people's eyes. I think a lot of it is probably coaching. Too early to tell on the intangibles.
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:47 pm
  • It’s funny watching some niner fans backpeddle on JimmyGQ, but at the same time don’t want to admit Mullens may very likely be a better QB when it’s said and done.

    Of course a lot of Niner fans ego’s are tied to Jimmy as they went “all in” on him.

    Reading the denialzone over the past year and a half some there were already measuring him for his HOF jacket.

    Like I’ve already said up thread, for a guy who some have said here, JGQ has “No fatal flaws”, he sure has a lot of fatal flaws.

    8)
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:13 pm
  • If he's playing like this week 5 then I'll be worried and be all on the Mullens bandwagon that's if he makes it that far and doesn't get hurt :34853_doh:

    Same thing about Kyler Murray too, I'll wait until week 5 of the regular season and not judge him based on that 1 preseason game
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:18 pm
  • Game 2 of preseason, it don't mean a thing. They basically have 6 or 7 plays they run so I'm not expecting spectacular.

    I do see some positives overall, 8 qtrs of play only allowing 1 TD, and moving the ball and scoring from the red zone.
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:22 pm
  • Sports Hernia wrote:It’s funny watching some niner fans backpeddle on JimmyGQ, but at the same time don’t want to admit Mullens may very likely be a better QB when it’s said and done.

    Of course a lot of Niner fans ego’s are tied to Jimmy as they went “all in” on him.

    Reading the denialzone over the past year and a half some there were already measuring him for his HOF jacket.

    Like I’ve already said up thread, for a guy who some have said here, JGQ has “No fatal flaws”, he sure has a lot of fatal flaws.

    8)


    For the record...

    I'm not back-peddling. I still think he's a star...or more accurately will be a star. I also can't ignore when he has a bad day, which he most certainly had on Monday Night.

    To summarize...It takes QBs time to pick up Shanahans system. In the 5 games he won to finish the 2017 season, he was running only a fraction of the playbook. He was just wingin it and showing his physical ability and arm talent. He said after that season that there were times he didn't know what the read was and only knew the primary receiver.

    Last year tho, would be the theoretical "Year One" in that offense. In that first year, Matt Ryan had a QB rating of 89. In year 2 it was 117.1.

    I think early last year he was trying to get through his options on every play and that resulted in being sacked 13 times in 2.5 games. The problem here is that he got hurt 2.5 games through the season, so he STILL hasn't gotten his "Year One". Getting hurt so early has really slowed his progress, and the injury is just another impediment to his progression.

    What I find funny though is this thought that has become pervasive in Bay Area sports talk that Jimmy really sucked last year and that he's gotten progressively worse. In week one vs the vikings, he had his worst game as a pro. There were all sorts of dropped passes, missed blocks, etc that contribute to that, but the reality is that it was his worst game. 1 TD, three INTs.

    However, in the next two weeks prior to injury, he was 38 of 56 for 457 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INTs, and a passer rating of 116.4. So whats the reality? I honestly don't know, but I am a LONG, LONG way from writing him off.

    My guess is he struggles early, the media and fans are all over him, .Net is thrilled, but somewhere around mid-season, should he stay healthy, he really starts playing well.

    Its entirely possible that by that point it may be too late to make anything of the season, but they will finally know for sure if he's the guy.

    Mullens? I really like the guy, but he isn't a franchise QB. My hope is he sticks around for awhile and eventually ends up traded while they groom another guy to be Jimmys backup.
    Last edited by Marvin49 on Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:24 pm
  • Washington49er wrote:Game 2 of preseason, it don't mean a thing. They basically have 6 or 7 plays they run so I'm not expecting spectacular.

    I do see some positives overall, 8 qtrs of play only allowing 1 TD, and moving the ball and scoring from the red zone.


    Yeah, lost in the haze of Jimmy G, the run game has looked great, the defense has played really well, The punter might be one of the best hitters on the team (lol), the entire rookie class looks good, in particular the WRs, and even Solomon Thomas is showing signs of life.

    The D line is getting all kinds of pressure, and Ford, Bosa, and Buckner have yet to play a down.
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:57 pm
  • Marvin49 wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:It’s funny watching some niner fans backpeddle on JimmyGQ, but at the same time don’t want to admit Mullens may very likely be a better QB when it’s said and done.

    Of course a lot of Niner fans ego’s are tied to Jimmy as they went “all in” on him.

    Reading the denialzone over the past year and a half some there were already measuring him for his HOF jacket.

    Like I’ve already said up thread, for a guy who some have said here, JGQ has “No fatal flaws”, he sure has a lot of fatal flaws.

    8)


    For the record...

    I'm not back-peddling. I still think he's a star...or more accurately will be a star. I also can't ignore when he has a bad day, which he most certainly had on Monday Night.

    To summarize...It takes QBs time to pick up Shanahans system. In the 5 games he won to finish the 2017 season, he was running only a fraction of the playbook. He was just wingin it and showing his physical ability and arm talent. He said after that season that there were times he didn't know what the read was and only knew the primary receiver.

    Last year tho, would be the theoretical "Year One" in that offense. In that first year, Matt Ryan had a QB rating of 89. In year 2 it was 117.1.

    I think early last year he was trying to get through his options on every play and that resulted in being sacked 13 times in 2.5 games. The problem here is that he got hurt 2.5 games through the season, so he STILL hasn't gotten his "Year One". Getting hurt so early has really slowed his progress, and the injury is just another impediment to his progression.

    What I find funny though is this thought that has become pervasive in Bay Area sports talk that Jimmy really sucked last year and that he's gotten progressively worse. In week one vs the vikings, he had his worst game as a pro. There were all sorts of dropped passes, missed blocks, etc that contribute to that, but the reality is that it was his worst game. 1 TD, three INTs.

    However, in the next two weeks prior to injury, he was 38 of 56 for 457 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INTs, and a passer rating of 116.4. So whats the reality? I honestly don't know, but I am a LONG, LONG way from writing him off.

    My guess is he struggles early, the media and fans are all over him, .Net is thrilled, but somewhere around mid-season, should he stay healthy, he really starts playing well.

    Its entirely possible that by that point it may be too late to make anything of the season, but they will finally know for sure if he's the guy.

    Mullens? I really like the guy, but he isn't a franchise QB. My hope is he sticks around for awhile and eventually ends up traded while they groom another guy to be Jimmys backup.


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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:02 pm
  • Maulbert wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:It’s funny watching some niner fans backpeddle on JimmyGQ, but at the same time don’t want to admit Mullens may very likely be a better QB when it’s said and done.

    Of course a lot of Niner fans ego’s are tied to Jimmy as they went “all in” on him.

    Reading the denialzone over the past year and a half some there were already measuring him for his HOF jacket.

    Like I’ve already said up thread, for a guy who some have said here, JGQ has “No fatal flaws”, he sure has a lot of fatal flaws.

    8)


    For the record...

    I'm not back-peddling. I still think he's a star...or more accurately will be a star. I also can't ignore when he has a bad day, which he most certainly had on Monday Night.

    To summarize...It takes QBs time to pick up Shanahans system. In the 5 games he won to finish the 2017 season, he was running only a fraction of the playbook. He was just wingin it and showing his physical ability and arm talent. He said after that season that there were times he didn't know what the read was and only knew the primary receiver.

    Last year tho, would be the theoretical "Year One" in that offense. In that first year, Matt Ryan had a QB rating of 89. In year 2 it was 117.1.

    I think early last year he was trying to get through his options on every play and that resulted in being sacked 13 times in 2.5 games. The problem here is that he got hurt 2.5 games through the season, so he STILL hasn't gotten his "Year One". Getting hurt so early has really slowed his progress, and the injury is just another impediment to his progression.

    What I find funny though is this thought that has become pervasive in Bay Area sports talk that Jimmy really sucked last year and that he's gotten progressively worse. In week one vs the vikings, he had his worst game as a pro. There were all sorts of dropped passes, missed blocks, etc that contribute to that, but the reality is that it was his worst game. 1 TD, three INTs.

    However, in the next two weeks prior to injury, he was 38 of 56 for 457 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INTs, and a passer rating of 116.4. So whats the reality? I honestly don't know, but I am a LONG, LONG way from writing him off.

    My guess is he struggles early, the media and fans are all over him, .Net is thrilled, but somewhere around mid-season, should he stay healthy, he really starts playing well.

    Its entirely possible that by that point it may be too late to make anything of the season, but they will finally know for sure if he's the guy.

    Mullens? I really like the guy, but he isn't a franchise QB. My hope is he sticks around for awhile and eventually ends up traded while they groom another guy to be Jimmys backup.




    How original.

    What I find funny is one one end a poster says Niner fans are back peddling on Jimmy G and then when some says he's not and still thinks Jimmy will be fine...its spin.

    I mean, I know this is crazy, its almost as if there is nothing that can be said that wouldn't elicit a different reaction. :D

    In all seriousness, I stated my opinion and why I think what I think. It ain't complicated. View it however you want. Either I'll be wrong and several of you will hold it over me as evidence that I'm a homer or I'll be right and everyone here will give me no credit for being so (like, say, when I said I thought Harvin and Graham were bad trades). Its the way of .net. No worries.
    Last edited by Marvin49 on Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    Marvin49
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:08 pm
  • Marvin49 wrote:
    Maulbert wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:It’s funny watching some niner fans backpeddle on JimmyGQ, but at the same time don’t want to admit Mullens may very likely be a better QB when it’s said and done.

    Of course a lot of Niner fans ego’s are tied to Jimmy as they went “all in” on him.

    Reading the denialzone over the past year and a half some there were already measuring him for his HOF jacket.

    Like I’ve already said up thread, for a guy who some have said here, JGQ has “No fatal flaws”, he sure has a lot of fatal flaws.

    8)


    For the record...

    I'm not back-peddling. I still think he's a star...or more accurately will be a star. I also can't ignore when he has a bad day, which he most certainly had on Monday Night.

    To summarize...It takes QBs time to pick up Shanahans system. In the 5 games he won to finish the 2017 season, he was running only a fraction of the playbook. He was just wingin it and showing his physical ability and arm talent. He said after that season that there were times he didn't know what the read was and only knew the primary receiver.

    Last year tho, would be the theoretical "Year One" in that offense. In that first year, Matt Ryan had a QB rating of 89. In year 2 it was 117.1.

    I think early last year he was trying to get through his options on every play and that resulted in being sacked 13 times in 2.5 games. The problem here is that he got hurt 2.5 games through the season, so he STILL hasn't gotten his "Year One". Getting hurt so early has really slowed his progress, and the injury is just another impediment to his progression.

    What I find funny though is this thought that has become pervasive in Bay Area sports talk that Jimmy really sucked last year and that he's gotten progressively worse. In week one vs the vikings, he had his worst game as a pro. There were all sorts of dropped passes, missed blocks, etc that contribute to that, but the reality is that it was his worst game. 1 TD, three INTs.

    However, in the next two weeks prior to injury, he was 38 of 56 for 457 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INTs, and a passer rating of 116.4. So whats the reality? I honestly don't know, but I am a LONG, LONG way from writing him off.

    My guess is he struggles early, the media and fans are all over him, .Net is thrilled, but somewhere around mid-season, should he stay healthy, he really starts playing well.

    Its entirely possible that by that point it may be too late to make anything of the season, but they will finally know for sure if he's the guy.

    Mullens? I really like the guy, but he isn't a franchise QB. My hope is he sticks around for awhile and eventually ends up traded while they groom another guy to be Jimmys backup.




    How original.

    What I find funny is one one end a poster says Niner fans are back peddling on Jimmy G and then when some says he's not and still thinks Jimmy will be fine...its spin.

    I mean, I know this is crazy, its almost as if there is nothing that can be said that wouldn't elicit a different reaction. :D

    In all seriousness, I stated my opinion and why I think what I think. It ain't complicated. View it however you want.


    I could just post Baghdad Bob, if you prefer.

    Image
    Maulbert
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:11 pm
  • Maulbert wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    Maulbert wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    For the record...

    I'm not back-peddling. I still think he's a star...or more accurately will be a star. I also can't ignore when he has a bad day, which he most certainly had on Monday Night.

    To summarize...It takes QBs time to pick up Shanahans system. In the 5 games he won to finish the 2017 season, he was running only a fraction of the playbook. He was just wingin it and showing his physical ability and arm talent. He said after that season that there were times he didn't know what the read was and only knew the primary receiver.

    Last year tho, would be the theoretical "Year One" in that offense. In that first year, Matt Ryan had a QB rating of 89. In year 2 it was 117.1.

    I think early last year he was trying to get through his options on every play and that resulted in being sacked 13 times in 2.5 games. The problem here is that he got hurt 2.5 games through the season, so he STILL hasn't gotten his "Year One". Getting hurt so early has really slowed his progress, and the injury is just another impediment to his progression.

    What I find funny though is this thought that has become pervasive in Bay Area sports talk that Jimmy really sucked last year and that he's gotten progressively worse. In week one vs the vikings, he had his worst game as a pro. There were all sorts of dropped passes, missed blocks, etc that contribute to that, but the reality is that it was his worst game. 1 TD, three INTs.

    However, in the next two weeks prior to injury, he was 38 of 56 for 457 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INTs, and a passer rating of 116.4. So whats the reality? I honestly don't know, but I am a LONG, LONG way from writing him off.

    My guess is he struggles early, the media and fans are all over him, .Net is thrilled, but somewhere around mid-season, should he stay healthy, he really starts playing well.

    Its entirely possible that by that point it may be too late to make anything of the season, but they will finally know for sure if he's the guy.

    Mullens? I really like the guy, but he isn't a franchise QB. My hope is he sticks around for awhile and eventually ends up traded while they groom another guy to be Jimmys backup.




    How original.

    What I find funny is one one end a poster says Niner fans are back peddling on Jimmy G and then when some says he's not and still thinks Jimmy will be fine...its spin.

    I mean, I know this is crazy, its almost as if there is nothing that can be said that wouldn't elicit a different reaction. :D

    In all seriousness, I stated my opinion and why I think what I think. It ain't complicated. View it however you want.


    I could just post Baghdad Bob, if you prefer.

    Image


    Do what you like. Its just another tired attempt to discredit. I get it. You be you.
    Marvin49
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:19 pm
  • Marvin49 wrote:
    Maulbert wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:How original.

    What I find funny is one one end a poster says Niner fans are back peddling on Jimmy G and then when some says he's not and still thinks Jimmy will be fine...its spin.

    I mean, I know this is crazy, its almost as if there is nothing that can be said that wouldn't elicit a different reaction. :D

    In all seriousness, I stated my opinion and why I think what I think. It ain't complicated. View it however you want.


    I could just post Baghdad Bob, if you prefer.

    Image


    Do what you like. Its just another tired attempt to discredit. I get it. You be you.


    Marvin, you're not a fool. I know that, but you twist yourself into knots to try to convince people you know you will never convince. It's a sisyphean task, and yet you do it EVERY SINGLE TIME. You'd rather do that than admit you're even mildly a homer. I'm a homer, too. There's nothing wrong with it. I don't know if it's pride or something else, but it is highly entertaining.
    Maulbert
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:05 pm
  • Mullens? I really like the guy, but he isn't a franchise QB. My hope is he sticks around for awhile and eventually ends up traded while they groom another guy to be Jimmys backup.
    -Marvin

    I’m not saying he’s going to be your franchise QB, but I think he’ll be better than Jimmy GQ.
    I think Mullens though is better than the JGQ fanboys think he is.
    Sports Hernia
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Re: Jimmy G
Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:11 pm
  • Maulbert wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    Maulbert wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:How original.

    What I find funny is one one end a poster says Niner fans are back peddling on Jimmy G and then when some says he's not and still thinks Jimmy will be fine...its spin.

    I mean, I know this is crazy, its almost as if there is nothing that can be said that wouldn't elicit a different reaction. :D

    In all seriousness, I stated my opinion and why I think what I think. It ain't complicated. View it however you want.


    I could just post Baghdad Bob, if you prefer.

    Image


    Do what you like. Its just another tired attempt to discredit. I get it. You be you.


    Marvin, you're not a fool. I know that, but you twist yourself into knots to try to convince people you know you will never convince. It's a sisyphean task, and yet you do it EVERY SINGLE TIME. You'd rather do that than admit you're even mildly a homer. I'm a homer, too. There's nothing wrong with it. I don't know if it's pride or something else, but it is highly entertaining.

    Ive actually grown to like Marvin a little. Used to not like him at all. He’s grown on me.

    He’ll spin and dodge a bit, and won’t admit he’s wrong much, but he’s harmless.

    I believe he actually believes what he posts, some of the other Niner fans here, not so much.

    At least he’s NOT the guy who claims JGQ had “no fatal flaws” last year.

    Shit, I just kind of defended a Niner fan!!!! I feel so dirty!!!! 8)
    Sports Hernia
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Re: Jimmy G
Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:06 am
  • Colin Grab a ho,

    Insert Kaepernick and this thread could be from 6 years ago.
    chris98251
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Re: Jimmy G
Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:22 am
  • chris98251 wrote:Colin Grab a ho,

    Insert Kaepernick and this thread could be from 6 years ago.


    Yep, though most Niner fans won’t admit it.
    Sports Hernia
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Re: Jimmy G
Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:25 am
  • Sports Hernia wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Colin Grab a ho,

    Insert Kaepernick and this thread could be from 6 years ago.


    Yep, though most Niner fans won’t admit it.



    Unfortunately, until we get a true franchise QB this will always be the song and dance. The one thing I think is funny as hell. Some people are talking about the money and how he makes to much. I did that one time and got obliterated by hawk fans, over saying some players make to much. Oh well. Jimmy does need to perform or get out the door bottom line.
    rlkats
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Re: Jimmy G
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:43 am
  • Maulbert wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    Maulbert wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:How original.

    What I find funny is one one end a poster says Niner fans are back peddling on Jimmy G and then when some says he's not and still thinks Jimmy will be fine...its spin.

    I mean, I know this is crazy, its almost as if there is nothing that can be said that wouldn't elicit a different reaction. :D

    In all seriousness, I stated my opinion and why I think what I think. It ain't complicated. View it however you want.


    I could just post Baghdad Bob, if you prefer.

    Image


    Do what you like. Its just another tired attempt to discredit. I get it. You be you.


    Marvin, you're not a fool. I know that, but you twist yourself into knots to try to convince people you know you will never convince. It's a sisyphean task, and yet you do it EVERY SINGLE TIME. You'd rather do that than admit you're even mildly a homer. I'm a homer, too. There's nothing wrong with it. I don't know if it's pride or something else, but it is highly entertaining.


    1) Extra points for using sisyphean. :D
    2) I don't think I denied being a homer.
    3) I know the quest is hopeless, yet I proceed anyway. It's a sickness.
    4) In all seriousness, I'm not trying to convince as I know only those who who are open to being convinced can be convinced and that is a hopeless endeavor on any opposing teams board.

    I simply state what I think and why I think it. The rest is up to someone else.
    Marvin49
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Re: Jimmy G
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:51 am
  • chris98251 wrote:Colin Grab a ho,

    Insert Kaepernick and this thread could be from 6 years ago.


    It had occurred to me. As another poster said above, this could be another "lightning in a bottle" situation like it was with Kap, but I don't think so. I see the parallels for sure, but the the skill sets are completely different and Jimmys lend themselves to long term success much more than Kaps did.

    That's not to say that he won't flame out the way Kap did (and the reasons for why I think that happened is another conversation entirely), but I don't think so.

    I think what is funniest to me is that all of this Drama is effectively about 11 throws. 11. 5 INTs in a single practice and 6 passes in a Preseason game. I will really be concerned if he plays like he did on Monday in a real game. Until then its just fan and media fodder.
    Marvin49
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Re: Jimmy G
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:55 am
  • Marvin49 wrote:In week one vs the vikings, he had his worst game as a pro. There were all sorts of dropped passes, missed blocks, etc that contribute to that, but the reality is that it was his worst game. 1 TD, three INTs.

    However, in the next two weeks prior to injury, he was 38 of 56 for 457 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INTs, and a passer rating of 116.4. So whats the reality? I honestly don't know, but I am a LONG, LONG way from writing him off.


    I suspect you and I might be two of the only people who care, but to be fair:

    I agree that although he wasn't good, he didn't play as poorly as his stats suggested he did in Week 1. At the same time though, although he wasn't bad, he didn't play as well as his stats suggested in Week 2 (in particular) and Week 3.

    I just can't in good conscience spend years here arguing that Wilson is responsible for a ton of the sacks he takes (which the analytics community has finally formally caught up with re: O-line, QBs, and sacks), and then celebrate JGQ's passing stats in weeks 2 and 3 last year without acknowledging that he was responsible for a TON of sacks that don't show up in those stats (particularly in week 2).
    Popeyejones
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Re: Jimmy G
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:05 am
  • Marvin49 wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Colin Grab a ho,

    Insert Kaepernick and this thread could be from 6 years ago.


    It had occurred to me. As another poster said above, this could be another "lightning in a bottle" situation like it was with Kap, but I don't think so. I see the parallels for sure, but the the skill sets are completely different and Jimmys lend themselves to long term success much more than Kaps did.

    That's not to say that he won't flame out the way Kap did (and the reasons for why I think that happened is another conversation entirely), but I don't think so.

    I think what is funniest to me is that all of this Drama is effectively about 11 throws. 11. 5 INTs in a single practice and 6 passes in a Preseason game. I will really be concerned if he plays like he did on Monday in a real game. Until then its just fan and media fodder.



    The problem is that small sample sizes are small sample sizes, so people can take them and say "it's another _____", with the fill-in-the-blank being whatever they want to get to their desired conclusion.

    EXAMPLE:

    "After he had half a great season everyone thought he really had it, which was [insert "incorrect" or "correct"], ya know just like [if "incorrect" insert "Colin Kaepernick; if "correct" insert "Patrick Mahomes"].


    ANOTHER EXAMPLE:

    Would you rather have your QB throw 5 ints in a summer practice or throw 4 ints in the NFC Championship Game? If you're at all reasonable you'll pick the first one, BUT ZOMG THAT MEANS RUSSELL WILSON SUCKS!$#@()#$*(@#


    The point is that trying to derive long-term outcomes out of small samples sizes is just a flawed endeavor from the start, as it allows people to pick and choose the future trajectory they want in order to get to their desired conclusion through "an example" that was backloaded in from the start.
    Popeyejones
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Re: Jimmy G
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:13 am
  • Popeyejones wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:In week one vs the vikings, he had his worst game as a pro. There were all sorts of dropped passes, missed blocks, etc that contribute to that, but the reality is that it was his worst game. 1 TD, three INTs.

    However, in the next two weeks prior to injury, he was 38 of 56 for 457 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INTs, and a passer rating of 116.4. So whats the reality? I honestly don't know, but I am a LONG, LONG way from writing him off.


    I suspect you and I might be two of the only people who care, but to be fair:

    I agree that although he wasn't good, he didn't play as poorly as his stats suggested he did in Week 1. At the same time though, although he wasn't bad, he didn't play as well as his stats suggested in Week 2 (in particular) and Week 3.

    I just can't in good conscience spend years here arguing that Wilson is responsible for a ton of the sacks he takes (which the analytics community has finally formally caught up with re: O-line, QBs, and sacks), and then celebrate JGQ's passing stats in weeks 2 and 3 last year without acknowledging that he was responsible for a TON of sacks that don't show up in those stats (particularly in week 2).


    I actually referenced those sacks in that post. I agree with you. There were several instances, particularly vs DET when he held the ball. I think that's directly related to still learning Kyles system, trying to get through his reads, and not just winging it like he did in year one when there where times when he didn't even know who the second read was.

    This is what I'm talking about. This is an article about Shanahan/Ryan from 2015:

    https://www.thefalcoholic.com/2015/12/1/9820316/kyle-shanahan-quarterback-killer

    "The passing offense has been been atrocious for weeks. Turnovers, inaccurate throws, and predictability have haunted this team. While Atlanta's supporting cast could use some improvement, the passing offense has taken a decidedly swift step back since last year. How can a Pro Bowl quarterback and a Pro Bowl wide receiver look so ordinary, so quickly?

    In my opinion, the problem has to originate with one of either two people: QB Matt Ryan or OC Kyle Shanahan.

    Simply put, Ryan is having his worst year as a pro. He looks uncomfortable playing, and his mechanics have been a mess all season."


    "That is not to say that Ryan does not deserve blame for the state of the offense. His decision-making has been terrible. His deep ball has been laughable. He looks as if he has regressed, painfully so. He is either falling apart at an irregularly early time in his career, or he is being forced into an offensive scheme that doesn't match his strengths."


    That was with Ryan getting a full offseason AND about as many starts as Jimmy G has gotten as a 49er. Ryan also didn't get hurt. Mullens IMO has looked good because he's been in the offense for 3 years now.

    This isn't meant as an excuse for poor play, though I'm sure that's how it will be read. What I'm saying is that its all a process and it takes time. He didn't even get his year one learning season because of the ACL, so I think he'll struggle (IE I'm not excusing past play, I'm saying he will CONTINUE to struggle) and at some point the light bulb will go on. Thats what I think will happen anyway, but its all predicated on him staying healthy.

    I'm just sayin, Ryan became a league MVP the next year after this was written. It doesn't happen overnight and Jimmys play in 2017 made everyone think he'd return an expert on the Shanahan system. I think he just needs to stay upright, and play through the mistakes and he'll eventually have the level of proficiency in the system that Ryan did (and I'm talking about understanding, not saying he'll be league MVP).

    Additionally, it should be noted that Jimmy wasn't the only one out there making mistakes. The complexity and newness of the O was wreaking havok with the young receivers as well and that is why that continues to be a concern for me this year with youngsters Samuel and Hurd.
    Last edited by Marvin49 on Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jimmy G
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:23 am
  • Um, at least two of those picks were on Kearse :roll:
    And Russ flat out brought his team back from a 16 point deficit with 5 minutes left. I wonder if pretty boy could come close to doing something like that.
    SoulfishHawk
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Re: Jimmy G
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:32 am
  • ^^^^ Agreed with what you're saying, but this is also kinda the reverse of what Chris is doing also.

    "Well Kaepernick looked good for a year and then he sucked" isn't really that different far off from "Well Matt Ryan looked bad in this offense for a year and then looked great in it for a year."

    And I know I'm engaging in the same small sample size meaning making and dime story psychoanalyzing that I'm always arguing against, but I do *kinda* suspect that part of what's going on is JG isn't nearly as even keeled as he comes off and as Shanahan keeps insisting he is.

    By that, I mean that last year he got shook by the picks in week 1, and then was afraid to the throw the ball and took a ton of sacks in week 2. After the two first throws last night he also seemed pretty shook to me and deep in his feelings -- there was not point leaving him in longer because he was already shot.

    He comes ACROSS as very even keeled -- let's be honest, he comes across like a total handsome idiot type -- but I'm also more open to the possibility that he actually isn't than I was before, and that I've just confused his lack of personality and frat boy dopiness with him being even keeled and not getting stuck in his feelings to the detriment of his play.

    That IS something that I think very much happened with Kaepernick when things were going bad.
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Re: Jimmy G
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:35 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Um, at least two of those picks were on Kearse :roll:
    And Russ flat out brought his team back from a 16 point deficit with 5 minutes left. I wonder if pretty boy could come close to doing something like that.


    Just in case there's confusion, my point was that trying to make a statement about Wilson as a QB as based on throwing four picks in an NFCCG is a BAD ARGUMENT

    In defending him it seems like you think you're disagreeing with me when you're actually agreeing with me.

    I know folks get touchy about St. Russ, but trust me, we're agreeing with each other.
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