Elite? GOAT?

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Elite? GOAT?
Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:12 am
  • Everybody says it's still Tom Brady... :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll: Nobody beats Father Time. Sorry, Tommy Boy.

    "This year the Patriots and Tom Brady agreed to a revised contract that was designed to pay him more like the elite quarterback he has been throughout his NFL career. The deal would give Brady a bonus of $1 million each for finishing in the top five in passing yards, passing touchdowns, passer rating, completion percentage and yards per attempt....

    Although there’s still one game left for Brady to improve his stats, he’s so far out of the Top 5 in all five of those categories that there’s no realistic way he could reach any of those $1 million incentives."

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/tom ... ocid=ientp
    GeekHawk
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Re: Elite? GOAT?
Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:57 pm
  • Sounds like TomTom needs an upgraded Operating system. :twisted:
    Seahawkfan80
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Re: Elite? GOAT?
Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:15 pm
  • Are you suggesting that because he's not currently in the top 5 of those categories that he isn't the GOAT?
    Erebus
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Re: Elite? GOAT?
Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:47 pm
  • Bill Belichick is the GOAT, not Tom Brady. They still went 11-5 with Matt Cassel, their freaking backup QB, for an entire season when Brady went out for the season in the first quarter of the first game of that season.
    RolandDeschain
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Re: Elite? GOAT?
Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:52 pm
  • Compare Brady's numbers to his peers (regular season and post-season).

    Then compare Montana to his peers (regular season and post-season).



    The true GOAT is Montana and it's not really close when you look at the quarterbacks in a normalized fashion that accounts for rule changes that help offense and protect QBs.
    5_Golden_Rings
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Re: Elite? GOAT?
Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:10 pm
  • 5_Golden_Rings wrote:Compare Brady's numbers to his peers (regular season and post-season).

    Then compare Montana to his peers (regular season and post-season).



    The true GOAT is Montana and it's not really close when you look at the quarterbacks in a normalized fashion that accounts for rule changes that help offense and protect QBs.

    I agree with your statement. Are you willing to also agree that Steve Largent would be the GOAT if he had Montana and Young as his QBs on that 49ers team, rather than Jerry Rice? :)

    Your logic applies well to this scenario, though I suspect that you may not want to acknowledge as such. ;)
    RolandDeschain
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Re: Elite? GOAT?
Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:29 pm
  • 5_Golden_Rings wrote:Compare Brady's numbers to his peers (regular season and post-season).

    Then compare Montana to his peers (regular season and post-season).



    The true GOAT is Montana and it's not really close when you look at the quarterbacks in a normalized fashion that accounts for rule changes that help offense and protect QBs.


    I'm fine with this as this sort of thing would piss off some Patriots fans.

    But these comparisons are never really ultimately fair. Both Montana and Brady benefited from the greatest coaches/GMs in history, so they are the ones who get to be the top of the great quarterbacks. Shula was no slouch, but if Marino had played for a Walsh or a Belechick he'd probably get more consideration than he does. Montana continued to play like the man under Seifert, so maybe that's another consideration for giving him GOAT status.

    But you have to go with who was there and took it when the opportunity came. And both Montana and Brady executed over their careers like no one else given their opportunities, so they really should get the credit.

    Back on topic, Brady has had his couple of bad games this year (he has at least one every year like a human QB), but it's hard to pick old age problems from roster problems. Belechick managed to cover up the crappiness on that defense after the first few weeks last year, at least until the Super Bowl, and they're not able to compensate as well this year. And losing Solder and having a crap time with the receiving corps has really taken its toll.
    bmorepunk
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Re: Elite? GOAT?
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:12 pm
  • Brady is 41 years old. His team is likely the 2nd seed in the AFC and he's worth 400 million dollars. Do you really think a few million in incentives is gonna hurt him...

    This is like calling out Jeff Bezos because he's bald and Amazon Prime has fewer users than Netflix, therefore, Bezos doesn't make as much money as he could.
    knownone
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Re: Elite? GOAT?
Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:01 am
  • This is the type of post that typically doesn't age well, similar to the sdog1981 recently unearthed "It was always going to end badly" Pete Carroll-is-finished thread.
    Palmegranite
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Re: Elite? GOAT?
Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:35 am
  • Seahawkfan80 wrote:Sounds like TomTom needs an upgraded Operating system. :twisted:


    There were/are signs of this, this season.

    It seems to some (I've only seen brief vid clips) that he throwing the ball hurried and off-balance at times (bad passes) in an effort to not step up into the pocket and take a hit.

    How many hits has he taken? Hundreds....
    Vesuve
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Re: Elite? GOAT?
Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:44 am
  • Vesuve wrote:
    Seahawkfan80 wrote:Sounds like TomTom needs an upgraded Operating system. :twisted:


    There were/are signs of this, this season.

    It seems to some (I've only seen brief vid clips) that he throwing the ball hurried and off-balance at times (bad passes) in an effort to not step up into the pocket and take a hit.

    How many hits has he taken? Hundreds....


    It could be that he’s 41.
    Sox-n-Hawks
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Re: Elite? GOAT?
Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:49 am
  • Faulty premise if the only way to be considered elite or amongst the greatest is to finish in the top 5 at age 41 in passing stats for 1 season. If it's all about those 5 passing stats, then perhaps Dan Fouts should be considered the greatest.

    To put forth a proposition of eliteness for all time QBs and not include come from behind wins, total wins or SBs or at least a career retrospective for such a QB is short sighted.
    West TX Hawk
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Re: Elite? GOAT?
Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:39 am
  • Brady is elite. Not sure he's the GOAT, but certainly in the conversation.

    Is it passing stats or rings? If its just stats (should be) then its Manning. by a shout. If its both, its probably still Manning.
    Uncle Si
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Re: Elite? GOAT?
Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:25 pm
  • 5_Golden_Rings wrote:Compare Brady's numbers to his peers (regular season and post-season).

    Then compare Montana to his peers (regular season and post-season).



    The true GOAT is Montana and it's not really close when you look at the quarterbacks in a normalized fashion that accounts for rule changes that help offense and protect QBs.

    Montana benefited from a somewhat gimmicky system that nobody could figure out at that time. It is still a staple system today. Bill Walsh was a big reason for his success. I agree he was a great QB but not GOAT. He was also surrounded by above average teammates.
    Just my 0.02.
    MD5eahawks
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Re: Elite? GOAT?
Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:01 pm
  • MD5eahawks wrote:
    5_Golden_Rings wrote:Compare Brady's numbers to his peers (regular season and post-season).

    Then compare Montana to his peers (regular season and post-season).



    The true GOAT is Montana and it's not really close when you look at the quarterbacks in a normalized fashion that accounts for rule changes that help offense and protect QBs.

    Montana benefited from a somewhat gimmicky system that nobody could figure out at that time. It is still a staple system today. Bill Walsh was a big reason for his success. I agree he was a great QB but not GOAT. He was also surrounded by above average teammates.
    Just my 0.02.



    Offense's that are still used today so what 40 years are not a gimmick. Just becasue someone can't figure out how to stop you does not make it a gimmick. Read Option could be looked at the same way, they figured out how to slow it down. K gun, Pistol, Spread, all have nuances that you need to adjust for and or have personel available to stop it.
    chris98251
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Re: Elite? GOAT?
Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:57 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:
    MD5eahawks wrote:
    5_Golden_Rings wrote:Compare Brady's numbers to his peers (regular season and post-season).

    Then compare Montana to his peers (regular season and post-season).



    The true GOAT is Montana and it's not really close when you look at the quarterbacks in a normalized fashion that accounts for rule changes that help offense and protect QBs.

    Montana benefited from a somewhat gimmicky system that nobody could figure out at that time. It is still a staple system today. Bill Walsh was a big reason for his success. I agree he was a great QB but not GOAT. He was also surrounded by above average teammates.
    Just my 0.02.



    Offense's that are still used today so what 40 years are not a gimmick. Just becasue someone can't figure out how to stop you does not make it a gimmick. Read Option could be looked at the same way, they figured out how to slow it down. K gun, Pistol, Spread, all have nuances that you need to adjust for and or have personel available to stop it.

    It was new to the league. He was great at running it. It is so effective they still use it today. Yes they slowed it down, but that doesn't change the fact that he benefitted from it. It wasn't a complete gimmick, hence somewhat, but it was a league changing system. Not to mention the talent he had around him. That's part of the problem when debating how good one guy is vs another or all.
    The factors that are not equal:
    System
    Teammates
    Coaches
    Era
    Division
    MD5eahawks
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Re: Elite? GOAT?
Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:16 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:I agree with your statement. Are you willing to also agree that Steve Largent would be the GOAT if he had Montana and Young as his QBs on that 49ers team, rather than Jerry Rice? :)

    Your logic applies well to this scenario, though I suspect that you may not want to acknowledge as such. ;)


    I give a lot of favoritism to older players. Jim Brown and Steve Largent will always be the respective GOATs at their positions to me. As for QB, I could go with Joe Montana, but, I also look to Otto Graham and Johnny Unitas. Johnny probably had less help than the other two.
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