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Now that we know their teams, which QB

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Now that we know their teams, which QB
Tue May 01, 2018 6:16 am
  • will have the better career?

    I think Rosen is the easy pick as the Cardinals are probably the best of the teams that got QBs, but I'm going to say Darnold. Big media town, team should be turning it around eventually.
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  • Darnold. Rosen is going to be a massive bust.
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  • Possible, but I suspect Mayfield will be a bigger bust and Allen could well be a bust too. So almost by default, and being on the better team, Rosen could well be the second best. Jackson, of course, is a wild card.
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  • If Baker Mayfield is the QB that brings the Browns up from the depths, he'd deserve to go into the HOF.
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Re: Now that we know their teams, which QB
Tue May 01, 2018 10:02 am
  • Mayfield is a slightly more talented version, physically and mentally as Manziel.............so IMO the absolutely worst place he could have gone is Cleveland, where he's going to get frustrated getting his head kicked in for the next 3-4 years.

    So I'll also go with Darnold. He'd do well to sit for a year and learn the league and Jets system with McCown. Long term success and overall career I think it's Darnold. But short term success I'll go with Rosen, cause he'll be starting by week 3 when ol' scarecrow floppy sleeves gets broke in two for the 247th time in his career.
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Re: Now that we know their teams, which QB
Tue May 01, 2018 10:22 am
  • Surprised the Browns didn't go with Darnold and Chubb with their picks. But.......it is the Browns so......
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Re: Now that we know their teams, which QB
Tue May 01, 2018 10:23 am
  • I think Mayfield has the same “it” factor as Russell Wilson. Whether that’s enough to finally win in Cleveland, we’ll see.

    Rosen will put up big numbers, but I don’t think he’s a winner. Think Matthew Stafford.

    Josh Allen I think was going to fail no matter where he went. He was the worst qb the ducks played last season. Sure he’s a nice physical specimen. But he’s not a good qb.

    I like Darnold a lot, but I think New York is a tough place for him. He’s a pretty laid back California dude... New York media will eat him alive if things don’t go well.

    I think Rosen will have the best career stats. Either Mayfield or Darnold will be the best qbs depending on if they can overcome their locations.
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  • Wait which 2 qbs are we talking about?
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  • Darnold. I think Mayfield and Rosen will both be busts, I don't know about Allen. I think he could go either way.
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  • Mayfield = Johnny Football 2.0
    Rosen = Jay Cutler 2.0
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  • Sports Hernia wrote:Rosen = Jay Cutler 2.0


    Only if he isn't Sam Bradford 2.0.
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  • Maulbert wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:Rosen = Jay Cutler 2.0


    Only if he isn't Sam Bradford 2.0.


    Or Matt Leinart
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  • All of them will either bust, or underwhelm. This is the most overrated QB class in NFL history.

    Baker Mayfield - I could see early success, and then flaming out quickly, or he just struggles from the jump. He is a shell of Russell Wilson athletically. (Who he is often compared to.) He is going to have to play more like Brees than Russ if he wants to get the job done. I don't see it.

    Sam Darnold - I like him the best of these early rd QBs, but yet I don't think he will have anything more than an Alex Smith type career at best. Be good sure, but never taken seriously as one of the top QBs in the game. I really feel like he needed another year of development at USC.

    Josh Allen - J'Marcus Russell. No he won't be that bad, but Josh Allen is the litmus test for talent evaluaters. To the amateur eye you see this big strong athletic QB with one the livest arms you have ever seen. The problem though is none of that matters if you are not accurate, and make terrible decisions. He will lead the league in interceptions several times if given the chance.

    Josh Rosen - Personality aside, his problem is going to be durability. He takes so many unnecessary hits that there is no way he is going to hold up in the pro game. Luck had this same problem, and he was a much bigger & stronger man. Rosen isn't going to hold up, book it. He has the best throwing mechanics in this class, and if he can magically keep his personality in check, and stay healthy for a little bit. He can have a stretch of nice play that will inevitably end with injury.

    Lamar Jackson - He could've been RGIII his rookie year, but the league has figured out how to stop those gimmicky offenses. Lamar is going to have to do it the old fashioned traditional NFL way, with some spread elements sprinkled in.
    He will flash and make some plays, he is too dynamic not to. Inconsistency throwing the ball will be his downfall. A high injury risk as well due to a running style that doesn't do a good enough job of avoiding contact.
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  • Wow, lots of people down on these QBs.
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  • Lets wait till we see how they are used before we drive a stake thru their heart, odds on the assessment is correct, but then again Wilson would have failed in Cleveland, the Rams, San Francisco without Harbaugh. I think in Philly as well with Kelly. But in Philly with Doug Pederson he would have succeeded, in the current Minnesota situation John DeFilippo. I think Gruden would use him right but not Del Rio with Bill Musgrave.

    I think the same goes for all these players as well, depends on if the system is forced or if it is using their strengths.

    Jackson and the Browns have issues, seems that they have zero patients for a learning curve and break a QB's confidence almost out of the gate. A QB without confidence is not going to give you a good performance, can i throw this or well I get screamed at or benched, while he is thinking that he takes a sack.


    Hasselbeck had that issue for a while till he and Holmgren had it out so to speak, once the air was cleared things got better, Hass unddrstood where Mike was coming from, Mike understood why Hass did some things, they worked together much better after that, yeah Holmgren was still Holmgren but Hass felt more comfortable confronting him as to why.
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  • Mason Rudolph

    He is in a far better situation in Pittsburgh than any of the "top" QBs are with their teams. :stirthepot:
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  • chris98251 wrote:Lets wait till we see how they are used before we drive a stake thru their heart, odds on the assessment is correct, but then again Wilson would have failed in Cleveland, the Rams, San Francisco without Harbaugh. I think in Philly as well with Kelly. But in Philly with Doug Pederson he would have succeeded, in the current Minnesota situation John DeFilippo. I think Gruden would use him right but not Del Rio with Bill Musgrave.

    I think the same goes for all these players as well, depends on if the system is forced or if it is using their strengths.

    Jackson and the Browns have issues, seems that they have zero patients for a learning curve and break a QB's confidence almost out of the gate. A QB without confidence is not going to give you a good performance, can i throw this or well I get screamed at or benched, while he is thinking that he takes a sack.


    Hasselbeck had that issue for a while till he and Holmgren had it out so to speak, once the air was cleared things got better, Hass unddrstood where Mike was coming from, Mike understood why Hass did some things, they worked together much better after that, yeah Holmgren was still Holmgren but Hass felt more comfortable confronting him as to why.


    Great post. Situation is almost everything. Russ was fortunate to come into a situation with a great running game (of which he was a huge part) and great defense to help lessen the pressure. Luck was the opposite and we've seen what happened there. Wentz also benefited from Pederson and Prescott did from that OL/Zeke.

    Shoot, I think if Hue Jackson wants to save his job, he'll let Todd Haley actually control the offense. Haley was instrumental in transforming Ben from a gunslinger/scrambler type who took a lot of hits looking for deep bombs in Arians' offense to a timing/rhythm QB. I don't think the Steelers should've got rid of him, but looks like he and Ben haven't see eye to eye in a while.
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  • I'm pretty low on the QBs that came out of school this year, especially Josh Allen. He's going to be an even bigger project that Lamar Jackson, IMO.

    I think Rosen ends up having the best career out of all of them, followed by Jackson, because the other QBs went to franchises that are far more likely to screw the pooch. That and I think Josh Allen is a horrid QB.

    Rosen is going to go to a team that has some nice pieces offensively, namely Fitz and David Johnson, and has shown to be relatively patient when it comes to the QB position. They don't throw QB after QB into the fire out of desperation like the Browns, they're actually alright with sticking with someone like Drew Stanton or Sam Bradford and have the kid develop without the pressure of producing in year 1. With Rosen's mechanics and ability, I think he puts on a little weight and matures enough to become an average starter in the league.

    Likewise for Jackson, he's going to get the opportunity to sit behind Flacco and work on his mechanics, understanding the pro game and his pocket passing. He won't be pressed to produce from the get-go, but even if he was, he would probably be one of if not the most exciting rookie prospects to watch. Don't forget he was a Heisman winner and has played in a good conference.

    I see the Browns doing the regular Browns thing. They'll start Tyrod Taylor for a few games, which they'll lose, but Taylor plays alright, and then the fan base will start pining for Mayfield because "OMG 1ST OVERALL PICK." So senseless-Hue will throw Mayfield into the fire, and he'll look alright for a couple games, before posting an awful 1/4 TD/INT game where they lose badly, and the dude will never recover his confidence, at least for the rest of the season. He'll get another shot the following year, with a new coaching regime, but the Browns curse continues after that and he makes a career out of being a journeyman back-up elsewhere in the league.

    Darnold is more up in the air. I think going to a New York team won't be so bad for the kid out of USC, but I would have much rather preferred to go to the G-men than the Jets. At least NYG has had SOME FORM of success this century. Darnold will have the opportunity to win the starting position from McCown, but I expect McCown to hold it down for the majority of the season -- barring a big dropoff from his relatively average 2017 performance. I do see McCown helping Darnold grow and mature early on, as McCown is a consummate pro and has learned that being even a journeyman in the NFL takes a ton of hard work and perseverance.
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Re: Now that we know their teams, which QB
Thu May 03, 2018 11:22 am
  • I've seen the Rosen = Jay Cutler comparison multiple times. What's the deal with that?
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  • They all suck. If i had to choose id maybe go mayfield as he has something about him. Hes not first pick material and the Browns will end his career prematurely no doubt.
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Re: Now that we know their teams, which QB
Sat May 05, 2018 10:08 am
  • chris98251 wrote:Lets wait till we see how they are used before we drive a stake thru their heart, odds on the assessment is correct, but then again Wilson would have failed in Cleveland..........
    Yeah, dissenting opinion here. I don't believe this for one minute. He's the outlier; the one QB in the last generation that would have turned around literally every single average to bad NFL team in the first season he played with them.


    Brady, Rogers, the bros Manning, may all have failed in Cleveland. But no way Russell Wilson.

    And I think Tyrod Taylor will likely start, and have a modicum of success in Cleveland. Rookie will watch and learn.
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Re: Now that we know their teams, which QB
Sat May 05, 2018 11:08 am
  • Palmegranite wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Lets wait till we see how they are used before we drive a stake thru their heart, odds on the assessment is correct, but then again Wilson would have failed in Cleveland..........
    Yeah, dissenting opinion here. I don't believe this for one minute. He's the outlier; the one QB in the last generation that would have turned around literally every single average to bad NFL team in the first season he played with them.


    Brady, Rogers, the bros Manning, may all have failed in Cleveland. But no way Russell Wilson.

    And I think Tyrod Taylor will likely start, and have a modicum of success in Cleveland. Rookie will watch and learn.


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  • I've said it a couple of times, but the NYG won the draft. Kyle Lauletta will spend some time learning from Eli and become a very productive QB if given the right opportunity.

    However, as for immediate starters? Josh Allen is on a rising team in Buffalo and will be an immediate success.
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Re: Now that we know their teams, which QB
Sun May 06, 2018 12:43 pm
  • When it comes to perfect situation, I vote for Alex McGough. 7th rounder, no pressure. A mentor that plays same style. Perfect.


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  • adeltaY wrote:I've seen the Rosen = Jay Cutler comparison multiple times. What's the deal with that?


    It’s a misapplied dig on Rosen’s personality, not really at all about comping them as QBs.
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Re: Now that we know their teams, which QB
Sun May 06, 2018 10:48 pm
  • Baker Mayfield - It's really hard to succeed with Cleveland. They just fail forever. He is accurate. But I'm not really sure about him at #1 overall. That's really high for Mayfield. But it's Cleveland. They do strange things.

    Sam Darnold - He has a huge upside. He is spectacular throwing on the run. Just in the elite category with that. In the pocket he is pretty solid with some inconsistency. I don't think he is a sure thing. But his upside is really big IMO.

    Josh Allen - 6'5" 237 lbs. with a rocket arm. He runs around pretty good and is a pretty good athlete too. There is no doubt he has the highest upside. A lot of his accuracy issues IMO are a result of playing on Wyoming. Which is just not the most talent around him. Having said that he has some accuracy issues and does very inconsistent things and makes some mistakes. He is not really ready and will need to grow and learn. He could bust for sure. But his upside is huge if he gets it.

    Josh Rosen - From a mechanics and pocket presence standpoint I think he is the most pro ready. I would say he has a high floor but not as high of a ceiling as some of the other players. But I think he can be an effective pro in the right system.

    Lamar Jackson - He is athletic and runs around really well but he gets injured a lot. Much like RG3 and Kaepernick I think he will get hurt and not turn out well. His game IMO doesn't translate well to the pros. I don't expect him to do great. That doesn't mean he can't do well for a few games or even 1 season. But I think when they get tape on him and figure him out it will be harder for him like the two I mentioned.

    I don't know if there are any sure things here. I think the highest floor is Rosen. You know what you are getting there. The highest upside is Josh Allen followed closely by Sam Darnold. Baker Mayfield is smaller than what I would like for a #1 pick and runs around a bit and may get hurt. He is accurate as a thrower though. I just don't like him as a #1 overall pick. But it's the Browns and they often do strange things in the Draft.

    Anyway all these predictions are obviously way too soon. You have to see them play a little for it to play out. Probably 1 will surpise, 1 will disappoint and some will be in between just looking at the averages.
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  • It's all about the team management for all of them. I think as much as it looks like the QB is almost the only piece that matters, there's enough variation in the performance of even the top QB's to show that the whole thing matters and more QB's are at the mercy of their situation than people think.
    Some of the narratives on each of these rookies are just ridiculous arguments and lazy analysis at best.
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  • purpleneer wrote:It's all about the team management for all of them. I think as much as it looks like the QB is almost the only piece that matters, there's enough variation in the performance of even the top QB's to show that the whole thing matters and more QB's are at the mercy of their situation than people think.
    Some of the narratives on each of these rookies are just ridiculous arguments and lazy analysis at best.


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Re: Now that we know their teams, which QB
Tue May 08, 2018 10:32 am
  • Sox-n-Hawks wrote:
    purpleneer wrote:It's all about the team management for all of them. I think as much as it looks like the QB is almost the only piece that matters, there's enough variation in the performance of even the top QB's to show that the whole thing matters and more QB's are at the mercy of their situation than people think.
    Some of the narratives on each of these rookies are just ridiculous arguments and lazy analysis at best.


    Sioux? Is that you?

    LOL.
    My feelings on some guys based almost purely on very limited tape viewing goes:
    Allen
    Darnold
    Rosen
    Jackson
    Mayfield
    Buffalo and NYJ are situations I'm not sure about, but could hurt or help their guys. Baltimore and Arizona are probably good for their guys. Cleveland fired the wrong guy and picked the wrong guy; they were looking like they had a chance to change their identity and took a step back.
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Re: Now that we know their teams, which QB
Tue May 08, 2018 12:14 pm
  • Sox-n-Hawks wrote:
    purpleneer wrote:It's all about the team management for all of them. I think as much as it looks like the QB is almost the only piece that matters, there's enough variation in the performance of even the top QB's to show that the whole thing matters and more QB's are at the mercy of their situation than people think.
    Some of the narratives on each of these rookies are just ridiculous arguments and lazy analysis at best.


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    Nah Siouxie would have said if they bring in TJack and Bevell it would fix their issues.
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Re: Now that we know their teams, which QB
Tue May 08, 2018 12:20 pm
  • purpleneer wrote:
    Sox-n-Hawks wrote:
    purpleneer wrote:It's all about the team management for all of them. I think as much as it looks like the QB is almost the only piece that matters, there's enough variation in the performance of even the top QB's to show that the whole thing matters and more QB's are at the mercy of their situation than people think.
    Some of the narratives on each of these rookies are just ridiculous arguments and lazy analysis at best.


    Sioux? Is that you?

    LOL.
    My feelings on some guys based almost purely on very limited tape viewing goes:
    Allen
    Darnold
    Rosen
    Jackson
    Mayfield
    Buffalo and NYJ are situations I'm not sure about, but could hurt or help their guys. Baltimore and Arizona are probably good for their guys. Cleveland fired the wrong guy and picked the wrong guy; they were looking like they had a chance to change their identity and took a step back.


    Don't they always do that? I think that is why they pick in the top 3 - 5 every year it seems. They always win the draft in Cleveland. At least they have that to look forward to.
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  • purpleneer wrote:
    Sox-n-Hawks wrote:
    purpleneer wrote:It's all about the team management for all of them. I think as much as it looks like the QB is almost the only piece that matters, there's enough variation in the performance of even the top QB's to show that the whole thing matters and more QB's are at the mercy of their situation than people think.
    Some of the narratives on each of these rookies are just ridiculous arguments and lazy analysis at best.


    Sioux? Is that you?

    LOL.
    My feelings on some guys based almost purely on very limited tape viewing goes:
    Allen
    Darnold
    Rosen
    Jackson
    Mayfield
    Buffalo and NYJ are situations I'm not sure about, but could hurt or help their guys. Baltimore and Arizona are probably good for their guys. Cleveland fired the wrong guy and picked the wrong guy; they were looking like they had a chance to change their identity and took a step back.



    I agree with your ranking, but I'd probably move Rosen up one. He reminds me A LOT of Eli. Buffalo has built a solid defense and they are piecing together the offense. My fear is that Allen will start too soon. I'd keep him off of the field until after their Bye week. Then again, maybe there's a reason I'm a mechanic and not a football coach.
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Re: Now that we know their teams, which QB
Tue May 08, 2018 10:46 pm
  • Mayfield can thank RW success to being number one, but he still has a lot of detractors. If he was 6'3 he'd be consensus #1 with no questions asked if all you did was look at their game films.
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  • Sox-n-Hawks wrote:

    I agree with your ranking, but I'd probably move Rosen up one. He reminds me A LOT of Eli. Buffalo has built a solid defense and they are piecing together the offense. My fear is that Allen will start too soon. I'd keep him off of the field until after their Bye week. Then again, maybe there's a reason I'm a mechanic and not a football coach.

    I think the starting too soon issue is handled terribly most of the time. Coaches try to "help" a young QB by leaning on a run game and using "safe" throws, but make themselves predictable and make the usually easy throws more risky. Organizations judge too quickly and also misplace blame/credit while just plain being too impatient and overvaluing a system, trying to change the player to fit it rather than adapting it.
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  • Smellyman wrote:Mayfield can thank RW success to being number one, but he still has a lot of detractors. If he was 6'3 he'd be consensus #1 with no questions asked if all you did was look at their game films.


    Maybe so. But other than Russell Wilson and Drew Brees there are not a lot of 6'0" and under QB's who are great QB's. It's no the prototype of great success for QB's in the NFL. Most of the real good ones are bigger and taller and have a higher release. NFL Linemen are big and tall with long arms. It's hard to throw it over them if you are too short. Wilson uses mobility to run around and find open throwing lanes. Brees is a master of shifting around within the pocket to find a small crack or opening to have a tiny throwing lane. But it's not ordinary for guys to have success who are real short.
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  • SanDiego49er wrote:
    Smellyman wrote:Mayfield can thank RW success to being number one, but he still has a lot of detractors. If he was 6'3 he'd be consensus #1 with no questions asked if all you did was look at their game films.


    Maybe so. But other than Russell Wilson and Drew Brees there are not a lot of 6'0" and under QB's who are great QB's. It's no the prototype of great success for QB's in the NFL. Most of the real good ones are bigger and taller and have a higher release. NFL Linemen are big and tall with long arms. It's hard to throw it over them if you are too short. Wilson uses mobility to run around and find open throwing lanes. Brees is a master of shifting around within the pocket to find a small crack or opening to have a tiny throwing lane. But it's not ordinary for guys to have success who are real short.


    Flutie managed pretty good.

    Also the stigma prevents players from even getting a chance based on the exact things so called experts say, we listened to the experts for months about Wilson, Pete had the balls to give him a chance and to follow his performances into the starting position. Several have posted his Pocket performance and it's as good or better then many Skyscraper QB's.

    Also as a 49ers fan you should have witnessed it several time already.
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    SanDiego49er wrote:
    Smellyman wrote:Mayfield can thank RW success to being number one, but he still has a lot of detractors. If he was 6'3 he'd be consensus #1 with no questions asked if all you did was look at their game films.


    Maybe so. But other than Russell Wilson and Drew Brees there are not a lot of 6'0" and under QB's who are great QB's. It's no the prototype of great success for QB's in the NFL. Most of the real good ones are bigger and taller and have a higher release. NFL Linemen are big and tall with long arms. It's hard to throw it over them if you are too short. Wilson uses mobility to run around and find open throwing lanes. Brees is a master of shifting around within the pocket to find a small crack or opening to have a tiny throwing lane. But it's not ordinary for guys to have success who are real short.


    Flutie managed pretty good.

    Also the stigma prevents players from even getting a chance based on the exact things so called experts say, we listened to the experts for months about Wilson, Pete had the balls to give him a chance and to follow his performances into the starting position. Several have posted his Pocket performance and it's as good or better then many Skyscraper QB's.

    Also as a 49ers fan you should have witnessed it several time already.


    Flutie was not a long term starter in the league. He did start sometimes. He also spent long periods of time being a backup in the NFL. He was on the Chargers and he was a backup for a pretty long time. He was a good college player though. But to call him a great pro I think is saying too much.

    I know what Russell Wilson is. I went to University of Wisconsin. He was a Wisconsin Badger. I'm a fan of him personally. I know who he is. He is accurate from the pocket and mobile and accurate throwing on the run. But I think that is unique to him for his size. Because not too many people are who are like 5'10" or whatever he really is. He throws a good accurate ball from the pocket and is good throwing on the run too. But I think he is the exception rather than the rule.

    Can Mayfield be good? Who knows? He was accurate in college. The Browns have such a history of failure I think it's hard to imagine him having a lot of help around him. But we will have to wait and see what happens. You have to give him some time.
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  • SanDiego49er wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    SanDiego49er wrote:
    Smellyman wrote:Mayfield can thank RW success to being number one, but he still has a lot of detractors. If he was 6'3 he'd be consensus #1 with no questions asked if all you did was look at their game films.


    Maybe so. But other than Russell Wilson and Drew Brees there are not a lot of 6'0" and under QB's who are great QB's. It's no the prototype of great success for QB's in the NFL. Most of the real good ones are bigger and taller and have a higher release. NFL Linemen are big and tall with long arms. It's hard to throw it over them if you are too short. Wilson uses mobility to run around and find open throwing lanes. Brees is a master of shifting around within the pocket to find a small crack or opening to have a tiny throwing lane. But it's not ordinary for guys to have success who are real short.


    Flutie managed pretty good.

    Also the stigma prevents players from even getting a chance based on the exact things so called experts say, we listened to the experts for months about Wilson, Pete had the balls to give him a chance and to follow his performances into the starting position. Several have posted his Pocket performance and it's as good or better then many Skyscraper QB's.

    Also as a 49ers fan you should have witnessed it several time already.


    Flutie was not a long term starter in the league. He did start sometimes. He also spent long periods of time being a backup in the NFL. He was on the Chargers and he was a backup for a pretty long time. He was a good college player though. But to call him a great pro I think is saying too much.

    I know what Russell Wilson is. I went to University of Wisconsin. He was a Wisconsin Badger. I'm a fan of him personally. I know who he is. He is accurate from the pocket and mobile and accurate throwing on the run. But I think that is unique to him for his size. Because not too many people are who are like 5'10" or whatever he really is. He throws a good accurate ball from the pocket and is good throwing on the run too. But I think he is the exception rather than the rule.

    Can Mayfield be good? Who knows? He was accurate in college. The Browns have such a history of failure I think it's hard to imagine him having a lot of help around him. But we will have to wait and see what happens. You have to give him some time.


    Mayfield was THE MOST ACCURATE qb in college with a phenomenal passer rating. Just like Russell Wilson.

    Do you think Mayfield played with small oline and dlines in front of him for 4 years? Troy Aikman has said at 6'4 he can't see over lineman. So unless you are 6'8 nobody can. Maybe we need even taller QBs!

    Or as Chris already pointed out short QBs just never get the opportunity.

    Also, you might want to check out how badly Flutie was screwed. All he did was win, but dangit, he was just too short

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  • Smellyman wrote:
    SanDiego49er wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    SanDiego49er wrote:
    Maybe so. But other than Russell Wilson and Drew Brees there are not a lot of 6'0" and under QB's who are great QB's. It's no the prototype of great success for QB's in the NFL. Most of the real good ones are bigger and taller and have a higher release. NFL Linemen are big and tall with long arms. It's hard to throw it over them if you are too short. Wilson uses mobility to run around and find open throwing lanes. Brees is a master of shifting around within the pocket to find a small crack or opening to have a tiny throwing lane. But it's not ordinary for guys to have success who are real short.


    Flutie managed pretty good.

    Also the stigma prevents players from even getting a chance based on the exact things so called experts say, we listened to the experts for months about Wilson, Pete had the balls to give him a chance and to follow his performances into the starting position. Several have posted his Pocket performance and it's as good or better then many Skyscraper QB's.

    Also as a 49ers fan you should have witnessed it several time already.


    Flutie was not a long term starter in the league. He did start sometimes. He also spent long periods of time being a backup in the NFL. He was on the Chargers and he was a backup for a pretty long time. He was a good college player though. But to call him a great pro I think is saying too much.

    I know what Russell Wilson is. I went to University of Wisconsin. He was a Wisconsin Badger. I'm a fan of him personally. I know who he is. He is accurate from the pocket and mobile and accurate throwing on the run. But I think that is unique to him for his size. Because not too many people are who are like 5'10" or whatever he really is. He throws a good accurate ball from the pocket and is good throwing on the run too. But I think he is the exception rather than the rule.

    Can Mayfield be good? Who knows? He was accurate in college. The Browns have such a history of failure I think it's hard to imagine him having a lot of help around him. But we will have to wait and see what happens. You have to give him some time.


    Mayfield was THE MOST ACCURATE qb in college with a phenomenal passer rating. Just like Russell Wilson.

    Do you think Mayfield played with small oline and dlines in front of him for 4 years? Troy Aikman has said at 6'4 he can't see over lineman. So unless you are 6'8 nobody can. Maybe we need even taller QBs!

    Or as Chris already pointed out short QBs just never get the opportunity.

    Also, you might want to check out how badly Flutie was screwed. All he did was win, but dangit, he was just too short




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  • Smellyman wrote:
    Mayfield was THE MOST ACCURATE qb in college with a phenomenal passer rating. Just like Russell Wilson.

    Do you think Mayfield played with small oline and dlines in front of him for 4 years? Troy Aikman has said at 6'4 he can't see over lineman. So unless you are 6'8 nobody can. Maybe we need even taller QBs!

    Or as Chris already pointed out short QBs just never get the opportunity.

    Also, you might want to check out how badly Flutie was screwed. All he did was win, but dangit, he was just too short


    Your bolded part is one of my pet peeves. Completion percentage is not the be-all-end-all expression of accuracy that almost everyone treats it like.
    That said, you're right about the opportunity issue; QBs without the first-round tools just don't get the same chance to show and develop. It's an issue that also skews the data on players by round drafted.
    For my view though, Mayfield could be 6'4" and I wouldn't grade him him any higher. I think he uses his shortness as a tool and I see decisions and throws that are as bad as Allen's worst. He has benefited a ton from both relative talent around him and a coach and system that maximize what he can do far more than what most college players get. He has a great feel for the RPO game, but won't find that nearly as easy in the NFL and options for him will unravel.
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Re: Now that we know their teams, which QB
Thu May 10, 2018 12:16 pm
  • SanDiego49er wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    SanDiego49er wrote:
    Smellyman wrote:Mayfield can thank RW success to being number one, but he still has a lot of detractors. If he was 6'3 he'd be consensus #1 with no questions asked if all you did was look at their game films.


    Maybe so. But other than Russell Wilson and Drew Brees there are not a lot of 6'0" and under QB's who are great QB's. It's no the prototype of great success for QB's in the NFL. Most of the real good ones are bigger and taller and have a higher release. NFL Linemen are big and tall with long arms. It's hard to throw it over them if you are too short. Wilson uses mobility to run around and find open throwing lanes. Brees is a master of shifting around within the pocket to find a small crack or opening to have a tiny throwing lane. But it's not ordinary for guys to have success who are real short.


    Flutie managed pretty good.

    Also the stigma prevents players from even getting a chance based on the exact things so called experts say, we listened to the experts for months about Wilson, Pete had the balls to give him a chance and to follow his performances into the starting position. Several have posted his Pocket performance and it's as good or better then many Skyscraper QB's.

    Also as a 49ers fan you should have witnessed it several time already.


    Flutie was not a long term starter in the league. He did start sometimes. He also spent long periods of time being a backup in the NFL. He was on the Chargers and he was a backup for a pretty long time. He was a good college player though. But to call him a great pro I think is saying too much.

    I know what Russell Wilson is. I went to University of Wisconsin. He was a Wisconsin Badger. I'm a fan of him personally. I know who he is. He is accurate from the pocket and mobile and accurate throwing on the run. But I think that is unique to him for his size. Because not too many people are who are like 5'10" or whatever he really is. He throws a good accurate ball from the pocket and is good throwing on the run too. But I think he is the exception rather than the rule.

    Can Mayfield be good? Who knows? He was accurate in college. The Browns have such a history of failure I think it's hard to imagine him having a lot of help around him. But we will have to wait and see what happens. You have to give him some time.


    Flutie played for Ditka who said he would never play him, he was forced to due to injury and Flutie lit it up, first chance he had Ditka cut him, I think he them bounced to San Diego and was cut. He made it up to the Canadian Football league and lit it up and set records, Bills signed him after about 4 or 5 years up there and they were doing their best Cleveland Brown QB search impression and brought Flutie in, again a name guy might have been Rob Johnson got hurt, Flutie stepped up and all of a sudden the Bills were dangerous again and won. He played quite a bit but yet again no matter how well he did he was either released or not resigned, Patriots picked him up as a back up and then he retired if I remember correctly. He never lost the job because he could not play and win, he lost it to a bigger guy based on the stigma against Short QB's. All the guys did was win, Wilson came in and everyone was saying career Back up or practice squad guy. ALL HE DID WAS WIN where ever he has played.
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  • chris98251 wrote:Flutie played for Ditka who said he would never play him, he was forced to due to injury and Flutie lit it up, first chance he had Ditka cut him, I think he them bounced to San Diego and was cut. He made it up to the Canadian Football league and lit it up and set records, Bills signed him after about 4 or 5 years up there and they were doing their best Cleveland Brown QB search impression and brought Flutie in, again a name guy might have been Rob Johnson got hurt, Flutie stepped up and all of a sudden the Bills were dangerous again and won. He played quite a bit but yet again no matter how well he did he was either released or not resigned, Patriots picked him up as a back up and then he retired if I remember correctly. He never lost the job because he could not play and win, he lost it to a bigger guy based on the stigma against Short QB's. All the guys did was win, Wilson came in and everyone was saying career Back up or practice squad guy. ALL HE DID WAS WIN where ever he has played.


    Flutie was drafted by the Rams in 1985, then traded to the Bears in 1986. I can't find anywhere where it says Ditka refused to play Flutie. Also, Flutie was traded by the Bears to the Patriots during the 1987 NFL strike where he crossed the picket line to play for New England. Following the end of his contract (once again, not cut) in 1989, he signed in the CFL. He was never cut by an NFL team until the Bills cut him in 2001. He then signed with the Chargers at the age of 38. The Chargers then cut Flutie in 2005, by which time he was 42 years old. This is all easy to look up. Get your facts straight.
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  • Every Canadian will recall Flutie winning the CFL championship with Calgary, and the again two more times in Toronto. He had a winning record with the Bills and got them to the playoffs, only to be benched for the biggest sackmeister in the history of the NFL. With the "tall guy", they were promptly bounced from the the playoffs, and didn't get another sniff for 17 years. Like, who benches their winning QB?!?
    That's what height bias will get you. Stupid Bills....
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  • NFL gets locked into their box and can't get out of it. Right now it is Arm length. Must have Arm Length! Can they just look at film for Pete's sake?

    Joe Thomas, perhaps the best LT during his tenure and high draft pick, would be a much later pick now. Only 32" arms. He is like a TRex
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  • Smellyman wrote:NFL gets locked into their box and can't get out of it. Right now it is Arm length. Must have Arm Length! Can they just look at film for Pete's sake?

    Joe Thomas, perhaps the best LT during his tenure and high draft pick, would be a much later pick now. Only 32" arms. He is like a TRex


    Yeah but Thomas is the exception. His form and stance are very unconventional. It's more likely a guy with longer arms will the successful than a guy with short arms, it's up to scouts to figure out who will surpass their physically more gifted brethren.
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