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Jimmy G can play

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Jimmy G can play
Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:07 pm
  • Like it not as a Hawks fan...I watched him again @ the Saints game...he can play QB @ a high level . IMO
    xray
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:10 pm
  • He's still learning. He's likely going to be considered in the top ten in a few years when the current crop of old QBs retires. I figure he'll range from just below Cousins to just behind the most elite QBs.


    But who knows what the future holds? All I know is that he has all the necessary physical tools.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:15 pm
  • 5_Golden_Rings wrote:He's still learning. He's likely going to be considered in the top ten in a few years when the current crop of old QBs retires. I figure he'll range from just below Cousins to just behind the most elite QBs.


    But who knows what the future holds? All I know is that he has all the necessary physical tools.

    Didn't Belichick draft him ? not sure but think so .
    xray
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:21 pm
  • 5_Golden_Rings wrote:He's still learning. He's likely going to be considered in the top ten in a few years when the current crop of old QBs retires. I figure he'll range from just below Cousins to just behind the most elite QBs.


    But who knows what the future holds? All I know is that he has all the necessary physical tools.


    I know he's got a lot to learn and develop but just below Cousins? He's better than Cousins now.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:54 pm
  • Washington49er wrote:
    5_Golden_Rings wrote:He's still learning. He's likely going to be considered in the top ten in a few years when the current crop of old QBs retires. I figure he'll range from just below Cousins to just behind the most elite QBs.


    But who knows what the future holds? All I know is that he has all the necessary physical tools.


    I know he's got a lot to learn and develop but just below Cousins? He's better than Cousins now.


    LOL.

    He is better than Cousins RIGHT NOW. BY A LOT. It's not close.

    :roll:
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:10 pm
  • SanDiego49er wrote:
    Washington49er wrote:
    5_Golden_Rings wrote:He's still learning. He's likely going to be considered in the top ten in a few years when the current crop of old QBs retires. I figure he'll range from just below Cousins to just behind the most elite QBs.


    But who knows what the future holds? All I know is that he has all the necessary physical tools.


    I know he's got a lot to learn and develop but just below Cousins? He's better than Cousins now.


    LOL.

    He is better than Cousins RIGHT NOW. BY A LOT. It's not close.

    :roll:


    I sense sarcasm but for ppl who really think Jimmy G is better this year, here is the stats.

    Jimmy g has 25tds and 11 picks.

    Kirk has 24 tds and 4 picks.

    Yardage is almost equal.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:35 pm
  • Shanegotyou11 wrote:
    SanDiego49er wrote:
    Washington49er wrote:
    5_Golden_Rings wrote:He's still learning. He's likely going to be considered in the top ten in a few years when the current crop of old QBs retires. I figure he'll range from just below Cousins to just behind the most elite QBs.


    But who knows what the future holds? All I know is that he has all the necessary physical tools.


    I know he's got a lot to learn and develop but just below Cousins? He's better than Cousins now.


    LOL.

    He is better than Cousins RIGHT NOW. BY A LOT. It's not close.

    :roll:


    I sense sarcasm but for ppl who really think Jimmy G is better this year, here is the stats.

    Jimmy g has 25tds and 11 picks.

    Kirk has 24 tds and 4 picks.

    Yardage is almost equal.


    I'd rather have Garoppolo, but hard to make the argument that Garoppolo is hands down better looking at stats. Cousins has been pretty damn good this year.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:49 pm
  • Shanegotyou11 wrote:
    SanDiego49er wrote:
    Washington49er wrote:
    5_Golden_Rings wrote:He's still learning. He's likely going to be considered in the top ten in a few years when the current crop of old QBs retires. I figure he'll range from just below Cousins to just behind the most elite QBs.


    But who knows what the future holds? All I know is that he has all the necessary physical tools.


    I know he's got a lot to learn and develop but just below Cousins? He's better than Cousins now.


    LOL.

    He is better than Cousins RIGHT NOW. BY A LOT. It's not close.

    :roll:


    I sense sarcasm but for ppl who really think Jimmy G is better this year, here is the stats.

    Jimmy g has 25tds and 11 picks.

    Kirk has 24 tds and 4 picks.

    Yardage is almost equal.


    Have you ever seen Kirk Cousins win a big game, prime time game, Monday Night game, important game in your life? He is 0 - 100 career in big games. I see Garoppolo win big games all the time. He even has 400+ yards and 4 TD's sometimes. The more interceptions is in large part a result of having Emmanuel Sanders his #1 WR injured and George Kittle his #1 TE and Pro Bowler injured. They had scrubs in there for a lot of the season. He would literally hit guys right between the #'s and it would bounce off their stone hands into the air for a tipped interception.

    As if stats are the only measure anyway. They are not. You either can win big games or you can't win big games. Garoppolo can and routinely does. Kirk Cousins never has and never will. He's literally 0 - 8 on Monday Night Football. Have you ever heard of anybody that bad in your life in primetime? If you can't win the big ones you aren't good period.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:58 pm
  • Marvin49 wrote:
    Shanegotyou11 wrote:
    SanDiego49er wrote:
    Washington49er wrote:
    I know he's got a lot to learn and develop but just below Cousins? He's better than Cousins now.


    LOL.

    He is better than Cousins RIGHT NOW. BY A LOT. It's not close.

    :roll:


    I sense sarcasm but for ppl who really think Jimmy G is better this year, here is the stats.

    Jimmy g has 25tds and 11 picks.

    Kirk has 24 tds and 4 picks.

    Yardage is almost equal.


    I'd rather have Garoppolo, but hard to make the argument that Garoppolo is hands down better looking at stats. Cousins has been pretty damn good this year.


    Jimmy G has potential, Cousins is as good as he is going to get. Based on potential I'd say he better right now.

    Kap is better than Cousins
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:00 pm
  • Shanegotyou11 wrote:
    SanDiego49er wrote:
    Washington49er wrote:
    5_Golden_Rings wrote:He's still learning. He's likely going to be considered in the top ten in a few years when the current crop of old QBs retires. I figure he'll range from just below Cousins to just behind the most elite QBs.


    But who knows what the future holds? All I know is that he has all the necessary physical tools.


    I know he's got a lot to learn and develop but just below Cousins? He's better than Cousins now.


    LOL.

    He is better than Cousins RIGHT NOW. BY A LOT. It's not close.

    :roll:


    I sense sarcasm but for ppl who really think Jimmy G is better this year, here is the stats.

    Jimmy g has 25tds and 11 picks.

    Kirk has 24 tds and 4 picks.

    Yardage is almost equal.


    Wins?
    Washington49er
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:38 pm
  • SanDiego49er wrote:LOL.

    He is better than Cousins RIGHT NOW. BY A LOT. It's not close.

    :roll:

    Some nice rose-colored glasses you have there.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:45 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    SanDiego49er wrote:LOL.

    He is better than Cousins RIGHT NOW. BY A LOT. It's not close.

    :roll:

    Some nice rose-colored glasses you have there.


    How many big games have you seen Cousins win in your life? Almost none. Jimmy Garoppolo wins them all the time. You guys are used to seeing Alex Smith and Kaepernick. Those guys you had to hide and just hope your defense and running game would win. You don't have to hide Garoppolo. He can carry the team and sometimes does. He just did against the Saints. Your team was also fortunate that we had our #1 WR out, #1 TE out, 2 OT's hurt and a scrub kicker off the street when we played you. With all of that it's certainly possible we would play better. Without it that was a pretty thin offense with all the injuries. Of course it didn't help that our scrub kicker put it down the tunnel instead of through the uprights for the potential game winner. It helps to have your first string kicker.

    All you have to do is look at his record. When Jimmy Garoppolo is in they mostly win. They lost last year a lot because he was injured. He mostly wins when he is in the lineup. This is no Alex Smith where you have to hide your QB and try to win handicapped.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:59 pm
  • SanDiego49er wrote:
    Washington49er wrote:
    5_Golden_Rings wrote:He's still learning. He's likely going to be considered in the top ten in a few years when the current crop of old QBs retires. I figure he'll range from just below Cousins to just behind the most elite QBs.


    But who knows what the future holds? All I know is that he has all the necessary physical tools.


    I know he's got a lot to learn and develop but just below Cousins? He's better than Cousins now.


    LOL.

    He is better than Cousins RIGHT NOW. BY A LOT. It's not close.

    :roll:

    Have you watched Cousins this year? Cousins might be a choke artist but he’s underrated. The only reason I’d take Garoppolo over Cousins is because Garoppolo seems to process a but quicker when he reads the defense correctly and he is inexperienced (which means he might have more upside). But Cousins has not played badly this year.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:19 am
  • Don't know if all Seahawks fans know this but the Cousins comp is also funny because Shanahan basically admitted last offseason that the plan they went in with when taking over the team was to sign Cousins when we went FA, and that the only reason that didn't happen is because the Patriots called at the last second offering Jimmy for not much, and then he played well.

    As for the comp, Cousins is a very good but not great QB. He goes in a bin with guys like Stafford, Romo, Matt Ryan (if he didn't have his one signature season), etc. who get crapped on because people simply lack the imagination for QBs who are in that 8-12 range but won't ever be top 5 guys.

    Jimmy has a higher ceiling than Cousins at this point in their respective careers (Cousins is fully formed, and MOST of the things that make Cousins better than Jimmy are things that can be developed, which doesn't mean they will be for Jimmy), but right now IMO Cousins is the better and more complete QB.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:27 am
  • 5_Golden_Rings wrote:
    SanDiego49er wrote:
    Washington49er wrote:
    5_Golden_Rings wrote:He's still learning. He's likely going to be considered in the top ten in a few years when the current crop of old QBs retires. I figure he'll range from just below Cousins to just behind the most elite QBs.


    But who knows what the future holds? All I know is that he has all the necessary physical tools.


    I know he's got a lot to learn and develop but just below Cousins? He's better than Cousins now.


    LOL.

    He is better than Cousins RIGHT NOW. BY A LOT. It's not close.

    :roll:

    Have you watched Cousins this year? Cousins might be a choke artist but he’s underrated. The only reason I’d take Garoppolo over Cousins is because Garoppolo seems to process a but quicker when he reads the defense correctly and he is inexperienced (which means he might have more upside). But Cousins has not played badly this year.


    Think about your own statement. "Cousins might be a choke artist but he's underrated"

    Ya thats what I want in a QB, take team to the brink of a win then choke!

    Tell me again how this equates to being a good QB
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:40 am
  • The reasons to like Jimmy are more intangible than physical. If we go purely on stats, you could have made the argument that Cousins was better than Wilson in recent years too.

    I have some friends who are Redskins fans because I lived a year in DC and have known them far longer. The *hatred* they have for Cousins is unreal........even more than what I have for Wilson as a sport hater! They still root against him even after having left because they feel he was a POS with his attitude, way more talk than ability to show up in big games. Even the players prefer Alex Smith over him largely for the same reasons.

    I think the best comp for Cousins is a poor man's Aaron Rodgers -- if Cousins was a bit better/more consistent to where his stats could overwhelm people, then they would overlook his attitude. People are starting to grow tired of Rodgers, but his early SB ring and numerous dominant seasons with some breathtaking plays has given him so much slack that it took a few years to finally begin to unravel.

    Ego wise, they are almost the same guy.

    Now getting back to the OP, let's just put this out there once and for all:

    48 points led in New Orleans when the loser scores 46 is impressive no matter how you cut it. Just about every 49er fan you know would say you'd have to go back 20 years to get another QB to do the same in a scarlet and red (or white/red) jersey.

    So hopefully now we can put to bed this Mullens is better than Jimmy crap (not that this game was needed, but this game should be the final nail in the coffin). If Mullens could do what Jimmy did in NO, let's just say that we'd have never seen Jimmy play another football game after he tore his ACL in KC.

    And to those that continue to fight that fight, expect more devil's advocate on Russell Wilson praise. :2thumbs: :irishdrinkers:
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:15 pm
  • Are we ignoring interceptions that went through open WR’s hands and all the TD passes called back on penalties?
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:44 pm
  • Washington49er wrote:
    5_Golden_Rings wrote:
    SanDiego49er wrote:
    Washington49er wrote:
    I know he's got a lot to learn and develop but just below Cousins? He's better than Cousins now.


    LOL.

    He is better than Cousins RIGHT NOW. BY A LOT. It's not close.

    :roll:

    Have you watched Cousins this year? Cousins might be a choke artist but he’s underrated. The only reason I’d take Garoppolo over Cousins is because Garoppolo seems to process a but quicker when he reads the defense correctly and he is inexperienced (which means he might have more upside). But Cousins has not played badly this year.


    Think about your own statement. "Cousins might be a choke artist but he's underrated"

    Ya thats what I want in a QB, take team to the brink of a win then choke!

    Tell me again how this equates to being a good QB

    A qb who has to be clutch because he handed the game away on the last possession with a moronic interception is not better than a qb who wins by not throwing the pick in the first place.

    THAT SAID, Jimmy G appears to be improving in that area, and should he remedy that weakness of putting himself in a position where he has to be clutch, he’ll be undeniably the better qb. He may be making that transition now.
    5_Golden_Rings
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:35 pm
  • How many big games has Jimmy won?

    Cousins is a fine QB. So is JG. Neither have done anything more than put up stats at this point.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:50 am
  • Washington49er wrote:
    Shanegotyou11 wrote:
    SanDiego49er wrote:
    Washington49er wrote:
    I know he's got a lot to learn and develop but just below Cousins? He's better than Cousins now.


    LOL.

    He is better than Cousins RIGHT NOW. BY A LOT. It's not close.

    :roll:


    I sense sarcasm but for ppl who really think Jimmy G is better this year, here is the stats.

    Jimmy g has 25tds and 11 picks.

    Kirk has 24 tds and 4 picks.

    Yardage is almost equal.


    Wins?

    Yup, this is the REAL stat that matters, in my opinion.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:56 am
  • Well, it took most Niners fans about five years to stop saying "Wilson's just ok, he's carried by an elite defense."

    Y'all people in San Francisco have quite a bit of waiting ahead of you, if we follow the same incorrect mindset the vast majority of you did.

    Just sayin'.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:26 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:How many big games has Jimmy won?
    Cousins is a fine QB. So is JG. Neither have done anything more than put up stats at this point.


    For the win.
    Cousins primetime record came on Dan Snyder Redskins teams.

    Cousins and JimmyG are pretty comparable at this point, but the Niners team overall around JG seems to be better than the Minny cast around Cousins.

    Let's hope for a Niners-Vikings playoff matchup to settle this issue once and for all, 'til next season anyway.
    Could very easily happen.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:56 am
  • SanDiego49er wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:
    SanDiego49er wrote:LOL.

    He is better than Cousins RIGHT NOW. BY A LOT. It's not close.

    :roll:

    Some nice rose-colored glasses you have there.


    How many big games have you seen Cousins win in your life? Almost none. Jimmy Garoppolo wins them all the time.


    Does he?

    He is 1-2 in his biggest games this year.

    Played in only 3 early season games last year, and had 5 starts in inconsequential games at the end of 2017.

    No playoff starts.

    What big games are you referring to?
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:32 am
  • kobebryant wrote:
    SanDiego49er wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:
    SanDiego49er wrote:LOL.

    He is better than Cousins RIGHT NOW. BY A LOT. It's not close.

    :roll:

    Some nice rose-colored glasses you have there.


    How many big games have you seen Cousins win in your life? Almost none. Jimmy Garoppolo wins them all the time.


    Does he?

    He is 1-2 in his biggest games this year.

    Played in only 3 early season games last year, and had 5 starts in inconsequential games at the end of 2017.

    No playoff starts.

    What big games are you referring to?


    That's some tricky math. LOL.

    Yeah...how do YOU define big games?

    How about record vs division leaders: 2-1
    Against 10 win teams: 2-2
    Against teams who would make the playoffs if the season ended today: 3-2

    Kinda beyond me tho how you got 1-2....just kinda completely sidestepping GB who is currently the 2 seed in the NFC.

    The only games they've lost were Seattle and the Ravens, whom Seattle lost to as well.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:36 am
  • Meanwhile...

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Re: Jimmy G can play
Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:44 am
  • olyfan63 wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:How many big games has Jimmy won?
    Cousins is a fine QB. So is JG. Neither have done anything more than put up stats at this point.


    For the win.
    Cousins primetime record came on Dan Snyder Redskins teams.

    Cousins and JimmyG are pretty comparable at this point, but the Niners team overall around JG seems to be better than the Minny cast around Cousins.

    Let's hope for a Niners-Vikings playoff matchup to settle this issue once and for all, 'til next season anyway.
    Could very easily happen.


    Well.....if all stays as is from seeding perspective, the Vikings would have to beat NO in NO to advance to the second round where they would play SF at Levi's.

    If Seattle wins division the chances fall dramatically that Minn would play SF unless somehow Minn beats GB for the NFC South.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:01 pm
  • Marvin49 wrote:
    kobebryant wrote:
    SanDiego49er wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:Some nice rose-colored glasses you have there.


    How many big games have you seen Cousins win in your life? Almost none. Jimmy Garoppolo wins them all the time.


    Does he?

    He is 1-2 in his biggest games this year.

    Played in only 3 early season games last year, and had 5 starts in inconsequential games at the end of 2017.

    No playoff starts.

    What big games are you referring to?


    That's some tricky math. LOL.

    Yeah...how do YOU define big games?

    How about record vs division leaders: 2-1
    Against 10 win teams: 2-2
    Against teams who would make the playoffs if the season ended today: 3-2

    Kinda beyond me tho how you got 1-2....just kinda completely sidestepping GB who is currently the 2 seed in the NFC.

    The only games they've lost were Seattle and the Ravens, whom Seattle lost to as well.


    My bad on forgetting GB.

    Admittedly, what constitutes a big game is entirely subjective; but I think to say that Jimmy wins big games all the time (you didn't say it) is a little far fetched to attribute to a 28 year old in his 6th season without a playoff win.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:27 pm
  • kobebryant wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    kobebryant wrote:
    SanDiego49er wrote:
    How many big games have you seen Cousins win in your life? Almost none. Jimmy Garoppolo wins them all the time.


    Does he?

    He is 1-2 in his biggest games this year.

    Played in only 3 early season games last year, and had 5 starts in inconsequential games at the end of 2017.

    No playoff starts.

    What big games are you referring to?


    That's some tricky math. LOL.

    Yeah...how do YOU define big games?

    How about record vs division leaders: 2-1
    Against 10 win teams: 2-2
    Against teams who would make the playoffs if the season ended today: 3-2

    Kinda beyond me tho how you got 1-2....just kinda completely sidestepping GB who is currently the 2 seed in the NFC.

    The only games they've lost were Seattle and the Ravens, whom Seattle lost to as well.


    My bad on forgetting GB.

    Admittedly, what constitutes a big game is entirely subjective; but I think to say that Jimmy wins big games all the time (you didn't say it) is a little far fetched to attribute to a 28 year old in his 6th season without a playoff win.


    ...and calling him a "28 year old in his 6th season without a playoff win" is a bit disingenuous when you KNOW why he hasn't won a playoff game...IE, because he sat behind perhaps the best to ever play for 3.5 seasons, played 5 games on a team that was 1-10, and tore his ACL in week 3 the following year.

    We don't yet know how he will play in the playoffs, but the way you stated his age and years in the league has nothing to do with his ability. When he HAS played, he's 17-4 as a starter when he's actually had the opportunity to play.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:23 pm
  • Marvin49 wrote:
    kobebryant wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    kobebryant wrote:
    Does he?

    He is 1-2 in his biggest games this year.

    Played in only 3 early season games last year, and had 5 starts in inconsequential games at the end of 2017.

    No playoff starts.

    What big games are you referring to?


    That's some tricky math. LOL.

    Yeah...how do YOU define big games?

    How about record vs division leaders: 2-1
    Against 10 win teams: 2-2
    Against teams who would make the playoffs if the season ended today: 3-2

    Kinda beyond me tho how you got 1-2....just kinda completely sidestepping GB who is currently the 2 seed in the NFC.

    The only games they've lost were Seattle and the Ravens, whom Seattle lost to as well.


    My bad on forgetting GB.

    Admittedly, what constitutes a big game is entirely subjective; but I think to say that Jimmy wins big games all the time (you didn't say it) is a little far fetched to attribute to a 28 year old in his 6th season without a playoff win.


    ...and calling him a "28 year old in his 6th season without a playoff win" is a bit disingenuous when you KNOW why he hasn't won a playoff game...IE, because he sat behind perhaps the best to ever play for 3.5 seasons, played 5 games on a team that was 1-10, and tore his ACL in week 3 the following year.

    We don't yet know how he will play in the playoffs, but the way you stated his age and years in the league has nothing to do with his ability. When he HAS played, he's 17-4 as a starter when he's actually had the opportunity to play.


    It's to highlight how incomplete his resume is - not as a positive, not as a negative, just incomplete. Too small to make any statements in either direction. I haven't argued that he is incapable of winning big games, just that there aren't enough pelts on the wall yet.

    When SanDiego49er posits that Jimmy wins big games all the time, how is that backed up with facts?

    It's tough when "big games" is such a subjective thing, but if we're talking regular season games that feel bigger than the usual, then it's 4 games, all this season. GB, Sea, Bal, NO - for a grand total of two big game wins. Even if we allow for Pit & LA that is 4 big game victories, counted on less than one hand - IMO not sufficient enough to proclaim that he wins big games all the time.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:18 pm
  • kobebryant wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    kobebryant wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    That's some tricky math. LOL.

    Yeah...how do YOU define big games?

    How about record vs division leaders: 2-1
    Against 10 win teams: 2-2
    Against teams who would make the playoffs if the season ended today: 3-2

    Kinda beyond me tho how you got 1-2....just kinda completely sidestepping GB who is currently the 2 seed in the NFC.

    The only games they've lost were Seattle and the Ravens, whom Seattle lost to as well.


    My bad on forgetting GB.

    Admittedly, what constitutes a big game is entirely subjective; but I think to say that Jimmy wins big games all the time (you didn't say it) is a little far fetched to attribute to a 28 year old in his 6th season without a playoff win.


    ...and calling him a "28 year old in his 6th season without a playoff win" is a bit disingenuous when you KNOW why he hasn't won a playoff game...IE, because he sat behind perhaps the best to ever play for 3.5 seasons, played 5 games on a team that was 1-10, and tore his ACL in week 3 the following year.

    We don't yet know how he will play in the playoffs, but the way you stated his age and years in the league has nothing to do with his ability. When he HAS played, he's 17-4 as a starter when he's actually had the opportunity to play.


    It's to highlight how incomplete his resume is - not as a positive, not as a negative, just incomplete. Too small to make any statements in either direction. I haven't argued that he is incapable of winning big games, just that there aren't enough pelts on the wall yet.

    When SanDiego49er posits that Jimmy wins big games all the time, how is that backed up with facts?

    It's tough when "big games" is such a subjective thing, but if we're talking regular season games that feel bigger than the usual, then it's 4 games, all this season. GB, Sea, Bal, NO - for a grand total of two big game wins. Even if we allow for Pit & LA that is 4 big game victories, counted on less than one hand - IMO not sufficient enough to proclaim that he wins big games all the time.


    I think you are just splitting hairs at this point.

    He is effectively a 2nd year QB. He has one of the highest if not THE highest winning percentage in NFL history (he was the highest before Baltimore...not sure now).

    If your point is that he is as yet unproven in "big games", then outside of the obvious that we can't define "big games" then all you are talking about is things he has not yet been given the opportunity to test. If you wanna say he's untested in playoff situations, I can buy that.

    Seems odd tho to hold any games this season AGAINST him since the Ravens ALSO beat Seattle and NE (handily in the latter case) and the ONLY OTHER LOSS just happens to be the team you are a fan of.

    Every single time he's taken the field he's either won or given his team a good chance to win (with possible exception of Minn last year...his worst NFL game). Even in KC last year they were mounting a comeback before he tore his ACL.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:56 pm
  • Marvin49 wrote:
    kobebryant wrote:
    SanDiego49er wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:Some nice rose-colored glasses you have there.


    How many big games have you seen Cousins win in your life? Almost none. Jimmy Garoppolo wins them all the time.


    Does he?

    He is 1-2 in his biggest games this year.

    Played in only 3 early season games last year, and had 5 starts in inconsequential games at the end of 2017.

    No playoff starts.

    What big games are you referring to?


    That's some tricky math. LOL.

    Yeah...how do YOU define big games?

    How about record vs division leaders: 2-1
    Against 10 win teams: 2-2
    Against teams who would make the playoffs if the season ended today: 3-2

    Kinda beyond me tho how you got 1-2....just kinda completely sidestepping GB who is currently the 2 seed in the NFC.

    The only games they've lost were Seattle and the Ravens, whom Seattle lost to as well.



    So we are clear.. Jimmy hasn't won any big games.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:25 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    kobebryant wrote:
    SanDiego49er wrote:
    How many big games have you seen Cousins win in your life? Almost none. Jimmy Garoppolo wins them all the time.


    Does he?

    He is 1-2 in his biggest games this year.

    Played in only 3 early season games last year, and had 5 starts in inconsequential games at the end of 2017.

    No playoff starts.

    What big games are you referring to?


    That's some tricky math. LOL.

    Yeah...how do YOU define big games?

    How about record vs division leaders: 2-1
    Against 10 win teams: 2-2
    Against teams who would make the playoffs if the season ended today: 3-2

    Kinda beyond me tho how you got 1-2....just kinda completely sidestepping GB who is currently the 2 seed in the NFC.

    The only games they've lost were Seattle and the Ravens, whom Seattle lost to as well.



    So we are clear.. Jimmy hasn't won any big games.


    Fair...as it depend entirely on your personal definition.

    Me? The last three games represent the hardest three game stretch an NFL team has played this late in the season...ever. No team had ever played three games in a row this late in the year against teams with a better than .800 winning %.

    Niners came out of that 2-1. I'll take that. They beat the current 2 and 3 seeds in their conference. To me, those are big games.

    Now some could say they aren't big unless they are postseason. That's fair. We'll find out soon.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:09 am
  • Marvin49 wrote:That's some tricky math. LOL.

    Yeah...how do YOU define big games?

    How about record vs division leaders: 2-1
    Against 10 win teams: 2-2
    Against teams who would make the playoffs if the season ended today: 3-2

    Kinda beyond me tho how you got 1-2....just kinda completely sidestepping GB who is currently the 2 seed in the NFC.

    The only games they've lost were Seattle and the Ravens, whom Seattle lost to as well.

    You can't use numbers for this. Big games are primarily all about pressure. Let's see how he does in a couple of playoff games. Also, winning a game doesn't mean someone does well under pressure. Circumstances of the game, and how well the defense and special teams performed have to be taken into account as well...regardless of stats.
    RolandDeschain
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:52 am
  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:That's some tricky math. LOL.

    Yeah...how do YOU define big games?

    How about record vs division leaders: 2-1
    Against 10 win teams: 2-2
    Against teams who would make the playoffs if the season ended today: 3-2

    Kinda beyond me tho how you got 1-2....just kinda completely sidestepping GB who is currently the 2 seed in the NFC.

    The only games they've lost were Seattle and the Ravens, whom Seattle lost to as well.

    You can't use numbers for this. Big games are primarily all about pressure. Let's see how he does in a couple of playoff games. Also, winning a game doesn't mean someone does well under pressure. Circumstances of the game, and how well the defense and special teams performed have to be taken into account as well...regardless of stats.

    I'm not saying JG sucks or just average but look at the weapons he has(ES/Kittle)
    The tv people can sing about how he won the NO game but really?I saw Kittle taking
    a little play a long way due to a horrible defensive effort by the Saints that cost them
    the game..To me it was Kittle's win and any QB makes that dinky pass but somehow
    it turns into JG's first big win?
    I get it that they need to hype it up like the NBA :pukeface:
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:21 am
  • IndyHawk wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:That's some tricky math. LOL.

    Yeah...how do YOU define big games?

    How about record vs division leaders: 2-1
    Against 10 win teams: 2-2
    Against teams who would make the playoffs if the season ended today: 3-2

    Kinda beyond me tho how you got 1-2....just kinda completely sidestepping GB who is currently the 2 seed in the NFC.

    The only games they've lost were Seattle and the Ravens, whom Seattle lost to as well.

    You can't use numbers for this. Big games are primarily all about pressure. Let's see how he does in a couple of playoff games. Also, winning a game doesn't mean someone does well under pressure. Circumstances of the game, and how well the defense and special teams performed have to be taken into account as well...regardless of stats.

    I'm not saying JG sucks or just average but look at the weapons he has(ES/Kittle)
    The tv people can sing about how he won the NO game but really?I saw Kittle taking
    a little play a long way due to a horrible defensive effort by the Saints that cost them
    the game..To me it was Kittle's win and any QB makes that dinky pass but somehow
    it turns into JG's first big win?
    I get it that they need to hype it up like the NBA :pukeface:



    While I think Jimmy need to keep proving people wrong and improving, how can you say kittle won the game?
    Yes Kittle made the last play, but is it not the QB's job to throw for over 340 yards and 4td? And I call BS, there is no way any QB goes into NO and puts over 40 on them and goes to to toe with Brees a HOF QB.
    Jimmy played a great game and carried the team on his back. And guess what the whole Offense did their job. It's easy to say well look at the receivers look at the TE. But at some point you need to start saying hey look at the QB he is not throwing the game away and is actually winning games whe. The D plays like crap.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:29 am
  • rlkats wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:That's some tricky math. LOL.

    Yeah...how do YOU define big games?

    How about record vs division leaders: 2-1
    Against 10 win teams: 2-2
    Against teams who would make the playoffs if the season ended today: 3-2

    Kinda beyond me tho how you got 1-2....just kinda completely sidestepping GB who is currently the 2 seed in the NFC.

    The only games they've lost were Seattle and the Ravens, whom Seattle lost to as well.

    You can't use numbers for this. Big games are primarily all about pressure. Let's see how he does in a couple of playoff games. Also, winning a game doesn't mean someone does well under pressure. Circumstances of the game, and how well the defense and special teams performed have to be taken into account as well...regardless of stats.

    I'm not saying JG sucks or just average but look at the weapons he has(ES/Kittle)
    The tv people can sing about how he won the NO game but really?I saw Kittle taking
    a little play a long way due to a horrible defensive effort by the Saints that cost them
    the game..To me it was Kittle's win and any QB makes that dinky pass but somehow
    it turns into JG's first big win?
    I get it that they need to hype it up like the NBA :pukeface:



    While I think Jimmy need to keep proving people wrong and improving, how can you say kittle won the game?
    Yes Kittle made the last play, but is it not the QB's job to throw for over 340 yards and 4td? And I call BS, there is no way any QB goes into NO and puts over 40 on them and goes to to toe with Brees a HOF QB.
    Jimmy played a great game and carried the team on his back. And guess what the whole Offense did their job. It's easy to say well look at the receivers look at the TE. But at some point you need to start saying hey look at the QB he is not throwing the game away and is actually winning games whe. The D plays like crap.


    SHOCKER: I agree. :D

    I do think that the storyline that Jimmy came through in the clutch on that last drive is a little overblown as it was really 2 completed short passes to Kittle. However, he answered Brees on almost every opportunity, point for point, throughout the game.

    I feel like people just keep moving the goalpost on Jimmy. Its like the only way he can earn credit is if he plays against the 85 Bears with only 9 offensive players and his recievers are both 80 year old men. Its like it only counts if both hands are tied behind his back.

    Joe had Jerry and a host of others. Peyton had Harrison. Brady spent alot of time with Gronk. Brees has Thomas. Smart teams give their QBs weapons. Not sure why that counts against them somehow.

    I guess thats just the way it goes.

    The following doesn't really apply to Seahawks fans as they pretty much hate all things SF as I would expect, but in the offseason Jimmy had that practice with 5 straight INTs and then he had a poor outing in first preseason game.

    Ever since that time, the National Media has just been all over him and waiting for him to fail. The have zero context. He was just returning from an ACL, still learning the O, and most of all that D has now borne out to be the best pass defense in the NFL...by a pretty good margin.

    Its like the story was written at that point and now they just can't let it go.

    No matter tho. Games are decided on the field, not by public perception.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:59 am
  • He can throw a checkdown with the best of them.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:23 pm
  • I feel like we’ve known for awhile that Jimmy can play. The question is, how much of his success is due to Shanahan and his scheme. Seriously, his advanced stats are mind boggling and it’s all related to Kyle’s offense.

    The bad: More than half of Jimmy’s yards come after the catch; close to 30% of his yards come from screen passes. He has the 3rd best supporting cast. He’s ranked 6th in interceptable passes with 24. He’s ranked 22nd in tight window throws with 10. For perspective, Goff is ranked 17th with 12 tight window throws, and Wilson is ranked #1 with 32.

    The good: He’s 2nd in completion percentage under pressure. He’s 1st in completion percentage on passes over 25 yards, but he only attempts just over 2/game which is 28th in the league. Most importantly, the Niners are #1 in drops which at least validates some of the Niners fan’s concerns that his early numbers were the result of the weapons around him rather than a fault of his own.

    On paper, he looks almost identical to Jared Goff with one major exception, Goff is horrible under pressure and Jimmy is elite. I’m fascinated by this because Jimmy is a clearly a better QB than Goff, but everything points to him being a product of Kyle’s system just like Goff is a product of Mcvay’s. And if Kyle and Mcvay can do that much to help their QB, it’s probably time for Pete and Schotty to incorporate parts of their offense into our scheme.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:04 pm
  • knownone wrote:I feel like we’ve known for awhile that Jimmy can play. The question is, how much of his success is due to Shanahan and his scheme. Seriously, his advanced stats are mind boggling and it’s all related to Kyle’s offense.

    The bad: More than half of Jimmy’s yards come after the catch; close to 30% of his yards come from screen passes. He has the 3rd best supporting cast. He’s ranked 6th in interceptable passes with 24. He’s ranked 22nd in tight window throws with 10. For perspective, Goff is ranked 17th with 12 tight window throws, and Wilson is ranked #1 with 32.

    The good: He’s 2nd in completion percentage under pressure. He’s 1st in completion percentage on passes over 25 yards, but he only attempts just over 2/game which is 28th in the league. Most importantly, the Niners are #1 in drops which at least validates some of the Niners fan’s concerns that his early numbers were the result of the weapons around him rather than a fault of his own.

    On paper, he looks almost identical to Jared Goff with one major exception, Goff is horrible under pressure and Jimmy is elite. I’m fascinated by this because Jimmy is a clearly a better QB than Goff, but everything points to him being a product of Kyle’s system just like Goff is a product of Mcvay’s. And if Kyle and Mcvay can do that much to help their QB, it’s probably time for Pete and Schotty to incorporate parts of their offense into our scheme.


    I'm unpopular among 9ers fans because I think as all of the 9ers greats from the 80s and early 90s are individually overrated because of Walsh's scheme advantage.

    I live those guys and grew up rooting for them, but they got to play in a new system that 30 years later is still baked into every team's playbook (in terms of route combinations and how to attack a defense, not in terms of running plays or formations).

    Walsh in that era had scrubs like Steve Bono and Elvis Grbac looking like pro-bowlers.

    Kyle's a good OC but this ain't that by a long shot.

    His "innovations" (and he regularly poors cold water on beat reporters who imply he's innovating or doing anything new, and he's right) are in MUCH smaller things like fornational versatility and play scheming.

    His offense is really hard on QBs too: it's why save for that one season with Matt Ryan his offense has never generated a top QB performance.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:41 pm
  • Marvin49 wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    kobebryant wrote:
    Does he?

    He is 1-2 in his biggest games this year.

    Played in only 3 early season games last year, and had 5 starts in inconsequential games at the end of 2017.

    No playoff starts.

    What big games are you referring to?


    That's some tricky math. LOL.

    Yeah...how do YOU define big games?

    How about record vs division leaders: 2-1
    Against 10 win teams: 2-2
    Against teams who would make the playoffs if the season ended today: 3-2

    Kinda beyond me tho how you got 1-2....just kinda completely sidestepping GB who is currently the 2 seed in the NFC.

    The only games they've lost were Seattle and the Ravens, whom Seattle lost to as well.



    So we are clear.. Jimmy hasn't won any big games.


    Fair...as it depend entirely on your personal definition.

    Me? The last three games represent the hardest three game stretch an NFL team has played this late in the season...ever. No team had ever played three games in a row this late in the year against teams with a better than .800 winning %.

    Niners came out of that 2-1. I'll take that. They beat the current 2 and 3 seeds in their conference. To me, those are big games.

    Now some could say they aren't big unless they are postseason. That's fair. We'll find out soon.


    Its regular season...

    Big games aren't regular season. I know it's been awhile, but you should know this
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:21 pm
  • Popeyejones wrote:
    knownone wrote:I feel like we’ve known for awhile that Jimmy can play. The question is, how much of his success is due to Shanahan and his scheme. Seriously, his advanced stats are mind boggling and it’s all related to Kyle’s offense.

    The bad: More than half of Jimmy’s yards come after the catch; close to 30% of his yards come from screen passes. He has the 3rd best supporting cast. He’s ranked 6th in interceptable passes with 24. He’s ranked 22nd in tight window throws with 10. For perspective, Goff is ranked 17th with 12 tight window throws, and Wilson is ranked #1 with 32.

    The good: He’s 2nd in completion percentage under pressure. He’s 1st in completion percentage on passes over 25 yards, but he only attempts just over 2/game which is 28th in the league. Most importantly, the Niners are #1 in drops which at least validates some of the Niners fan’s concerns that his early numbers were the result of the weapons around him rather than a fault of his own.

    On paper, he looks almost identical to Jared Goff with one major exception, Goff is horrible under pressure and Jimmy is elite. I’m fascinated by this because Jimmy is a clearly a better QB than Goff, but everything points to him being a product of Kyle’s system just like Goff is a product of Mcvay’s. And if Kyle and Mcvay can do that much to help their QB, it’s probably time for Pete and Schotty to incorporate parts of their offense into our scheme.


    I'm unpopular among 9ers fans because I think as all of the 9ers greats from the 80s and early 90s are individually overrated because of Walsh's scheme advantage.

    I live those guys and grew up rooting for them, but they got to play in a new system that 30 years later is still baked into every team's playbook (in terms of route combinations and how to attack a defense, not in terms of running plays or formations).

    Walsh in that era had scrubs like Steve Bono and Elvis Grbac looking like pro-bowlers.

    Kyle's a good OC but this ain't that by a long shot.

    His "innovations" (and he regularly poors cold water on beat reporters who imply he's innovating or doing anything new, and he's right) are in MUCH smaller things like fornational versatility and play scheming.

    His offense is really hard on QBs too: it's why save for that one season with Matt Ryan his offense has never generated a top QB performance.


    Wow...really kinda disagree on the bolded. What I'd say about his offense is that its difficult on QBs...until they really learn it. Schaub showed huge improvement from year one to 2 in Houston (2008-2009). RGIII had BY FAR his best season under Shanahan as a rookie. We already know how different year one and 2 were in Atlanta.

    You can say he's made it difficult for his QBs, but should be pointed out those QBs have been Matt Schaub, RGIII, Johnny Manziel, Brian Hoyer and finally Matt Ryan.

    I do agree with you though RE Walsh and Montana/Young.

    Moreover, people seem to think Kyle is working magic or something and these schemes can simply be incorporated into an offense. What makes Shanahan so good is WHEN he calls those plays, not just the play design. Its the setups that he'll run and then run something that looks exactly the same but ends up with the ball in a completely different spot. He knows defensive reads and forces defenders to break their own rules in order to make a play.

    IE, its not just a playbook. Its Kyle himself. Its timing. Its chess.
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:24 pm
  • Gotta agree with Marvin on this one. You crazy, Popeye.
    RolandDeschain
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Re: Jimmy G can play
Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:05 am
  • 100% agreed with Marvin that Kyle's primary advantage is in preparing for the chess match, not changing where the pieces go or how they move.

    Because I was typing on a phone I where I wrote "scheme" above was supposed to be "sequencing" which the same idea. :2thumbs:

    Saying Shanahan's system is tough for a QB to succeed in also isn't the same thing as saying QB's can't succeed in it.
    What I'm saying is no different than what Marvin is saying: it took Ryan two years to really excel in it and Schaub two years to look a little better than he was in it.

    It's west coast verbiage, with a ton of choice routes, with the QB being asked to turn his back to the play developing a lot, and from what I've seen Shanahan doesn't run a lot of combo beaters meaning if he's guessed wrong on the defensive call the QB is hung out to dry a bit more. That's part of the trade-off on Shanahan's play sequencing advantage but it's a real thing.

    (Not acknowledging RGIII because that season, despite being Shanahan's, is so far removed from what Shanahan asks of his QB it's kinda beside the point).
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