Register    Login    Forum    Search    FAQ    Contact Us  Your donations are greatly appreciated! Donate  Chat Room

Board index » SEAHAWKS.NET - THE VOICE OF THE 12TH MAN » [ NFL NATION ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 98 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:52 pm 
NET Veteran
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:30 pm
Posts: 2972
Location: God's Country AKA Cascadia AKA The Pacific Northwest
Marvin49 wrote:
Smelly McUgly wrote:
What's the news on the WR the Niners drafted in camp this year? Quinton Patton?


He's been running routes in practice but hasn't been able to catch any because of a broken finger. He was just cleared this weekend to catch passes so we shoulod start hearing more about him soon.


Thanks. I also haven't seen any SF exhibition games this pre-season. Have they split Vernon Davis wide in any of them? If so, have they put him at split end or flanker?

_________________
"Well, I like the 49ers because they're pure of heart, Seattle because they've got something to prove, and the Raiders because they always cheat."

-Lisa Simpson

Well, at least Lisa got two of three right.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:55 pm 
NET Veteran
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:30 pm
Posts: 1290
Location: Olympia
sc85sis wrote:
Smelly McUgly wrote:
Wow, the Niners really DID give up on AJ Jenkins that quickly.

I still subscribe to the three-year rule for WRs. Golden Tate looked about as lost as AJ Jenkins at one point, after all (though Tate did start to get it together by the point that AJ Jenkins is at now, to be fair).

Tate is kind of lucky though. Pete was really patient with him, more so than other teams might have been.


True, Pete had the patience. But Tate was also the 2009 Biletnikoff Award winner as the best in college football and he still lasted to pick #60. This indicates that most of the NFL saw Tate as not ready to contribute immediately. The Hawks were not a ready-made team in 2010. They knew it was the beginning of a 4-year plan and they saw Golden as an elite talent who needed good coaching. In addition to the patience, the coaches and Schneider had the confidence to commit to Golden and their plan.

_________________
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:00 pm 
NET Veteran
Online

Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:34 pm
Posts: 2015
Smelly McUgly wrote:
Marvin49 wrote:
Smelly McUgly wrote:
What's the news on the WR the Niners drafted in camp this year? Quinton Patton?


He's been running routes in practice but hasn't been able to catch any because of a broken finger. He was just cleared this weekend to catch passes so we shoulod start hearing more about him soon.


Thanks. I also haven't seen any SF exhibition games this pre-season. Have they split Vernon Davis wide in any of them? If so, have they put him at split end or flanker?


No. Much ado about nothing. He's not playing WR. That's just the media trying to make a story out of nothing.

Do they move him around the formation? Sure...but they've always done that. Vernon is a great athlete and a very fast straight line runner, but he's never been a great route runner. Moving him to WR would just limit what he does best.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:06 pm 
* NET Baller *
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:02 am
Posts: 17258
Location: Graham, WA
I remember Baldwin, I wanted him... Now I want to crush him :)

I dunno what was the reasoning to take AJ Jenkins in the 1st round in 2012? I don't remember him having any kind of hype for that draft.

_________________
Image
3elieve


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:08 pm 
NET Veteran
Online

Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:34 pm
Posts: 2015
Throwdown wrote:
I remember Baldwin, I wanted him... Now I want to crush him :)

I dunno what was the reasoning to take AJ Jenkins in the 1st round in 2012? I don't remember him having any kind of hype for that draft.


Niners were looking for speed at WR. Jenkins has that, but he was so frail he just could never get off the line. CB Sean Smith just ate him for lunch at the line.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:22 pm 
NET Practice Squad
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:21 am
Posts: 82
So the niners have a bunch of FA's in 2014 and Baldwin can be cut next season without any guaranteed money, Jenkins had guarantees. This could be the reason for the trade.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:45 pm 
NET Veteran
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:26 pm
Posts: 795
Location: Bellingham, WA
Fanatics wrote:
So the niners have a bunch of FA's in 2014 and Baldwin can be cut next season without any guaranteed money, Jenkins had guarantees. This could be the reason for the trade.


and Jon Baldwin is a much better player and an actual "prospect"

_________________
4/27/13 - I was there #humblethug
"He looked like a bad man," Sherman said, "and I knew we were alright."


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:52 pm 
NET Veteran
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:46 pm
Posts: 5461
Location: Kansas City, MO
It is a lateral move for both teams and didn't hurt either team to roll the dice on the chance they work out for their new teams.

_________________
43-8...it's all about that action boss....
next man up.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:47 pm 
NET Veteran
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:18 pm
Posts: 1438
Marvin49 wrote:
rideaducati wrote:
Boldin has never been good as the number one wr. As to rolling coverage to Davis leaving Boldin one on one, why not double both of them? You don't have to worry too much about whatever other wr the niners roll out there because either Boldin or Davis will be Kaep's first read. Seattle will put 8 in the box and expect run just like they did the last two times they played. The Seahawk secondary will be just fine.


LOL.

There it is....always comes back to the "first read" thing.

MAN I can't wait for the season to start.


Go watch just the playoff games. Kaep has 85 or so pass plays. He makes it to his second read AT MOST 11 times. Of the 11, all of them have two receivers in the same sight line, one deep one shallow. He makes it from one side of the field to the other side a total of ZERO times. Try all you want to convince me otherwise and you won't be able to find ANY proof.

I am also looking forward to this season.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:45 pm 
*NET FCC Liaison*
User avatar
Online

Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 8:39 am
Posts: 22570
Location: Kirkland, WA
Marvin, I'd like it if you could point out the time and quarter on the clock and in which games it happened, in reference to Ducati's statement, there. I haven't charted or watched Kaepernick's playoff games closely. (Didn't even watch all of them.)

_________________
Sam Bradford is a game changer.

*He can change a win into a loss.
*He can change a loss into a win by getting injured.
*RedAlice is right.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:03 pm 
NET Veteran
Online

Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:34 pm
Posts: 2015
rideaducati wrote:
Marvin49 wrote:
rideaducati wrote:
Boldin has never been good as the number one wr. As to rolling coverage to Davis leaving Boldin one on one, why not double both of them? You don't have to worry too much about whatever other wr the niners roll out there because either Boldin or Davis will be Kaep's first read. Seattle will put 8 in the box and expect run just like they did the last two times they played. The Seahawk secondary will be just fine.


LOL.

There it is....always comes back to the "first read" thing.

MAN I can't wait for the season to start.


Go watch just the playoff games. Kaep has 85 or so pass plays. He makes it to his second read AT MOST 11 times. Of the 11, all of them have two receivers in the same sight line, one deep one shallow. He makes it from one side of the field to the other side a total of ZERO times. Try all you want to convince me otherwise and you won't be able to find ANY proof.

I am also looking forward to this season.


The problem is that you don't know the call. You don't know the pre-snap read. You don't know anything about the design of the play and are simply looking for something not to like.

Did Kaep throw to his first read a lot? Yes. VERY OFTEN his first read was running WIDE OPEN down the field. That's a product of excellent play design and play action off a dominant run game. Wilson enjoyed some of that this year as well. What was Kaeps QB rating in the playoffs?

I'm not even going to try to change your mind. Its useless. You will believe what you want to believe and what you want to believe is that Kaep will come crashing back to reality. That's OK tho. I know where you're coming from.

I just think it's funny how often people just spit out the same info over and over in the hopes that the guy they WANT to suck will actually suck.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:11 pm 
NET Veteran
Online

Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:34 pm
Posts: 2015
RolandDeschain wrote:
Marvin, I'd like it if you could point out the time and quarter on the clock and in which games it happened, in reference to Ducati's statement, there. I haven't charted or watched Kaepernick's playoff games closely. (Didn't even watch all of them.)


I'm not even going to bother with that. It would be a total waste of my time. It wouldn't matter what I found because someone here would just try to disprove anything I say because they WANT so desperately for Kaep to suck. They'll parse my words or argue the positioning of Kaeps helmet to say if he was looking here or there...it's just not worth it. It's the hope of the pacific northwest that Kaep is just an illusion and that your Seattle Savior is the one true Wunderkind.

I've spent way too much time on these forums trying to convince the inconvincible. At some point, I need to learn my lesson. :D

Lets just say we'll agree to disagree and we'll find out this year and leave it at that. It should be fun. :)


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:37 pm 
NET Veteran
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:18 pm
Posts: 1438
Marvin49 wrote:
RolandDeschain wrote:
Marvin, I'd like it if you could point out the time and quarter on the clock and in which games it happened, in reference to Ducati's statement, there. I haven't charted or watched Kaepernick's playoff games closely. (Didn't even watch all of them.)


I'm not even going to bother with that. It would be a total waste of my time. It wouldn't matter what I found because someone here would just try to disprove anything I say because they WANT so desperately for Kaep to suck. They'll parse my words or argue the positioning of Kaeps helmet to say if he was looking here or there...it's just not worth it. It's the hope of the pacific northwest that Kaep is just an illusion and that your Seattle Savior is the one true Wunderkind.

I've spent way too much time on these forums trying to convince the inconvincible. At some point, I need to learn my lesson. :D

Lets just say we'll agree to disagree and we'll find out this year and leave it at that. It should be fun. :)


You're right, it would be a waste of your time. It was a waste of my time too, but I wanted to make sure. I did.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:47 pm 
NET Veteran
Online

Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:34 pm
Posts: 2015
rideaducati wrote:
Marvin49 wrote:
RolandDeschain wrote:
Marvin, I'd like it if you could point out the time and quarter on the clock and in which games it happened, in reference to Ducati's statement, there. I haven't charted or watched Kaepernick's playoff games closely. (Didn't even watch all of them.)


I'm not even going to bother with that. It would be a total waste of my time. It wouldn't matter what I found because someone here would just try to disprove anything I say because they WANT so desperately for Kaep to suck. They'll parse my words or argue the positioning of Kaeps helmet to say if he was looking here or there...it's just not worth it. It's the hope of the pacific northwest that Kaep is just an illusion and that your Seattle Savior is the one true Wunderkind.

I've spent way too much time on these forums trying to convince the inconvincible. At some point, I need to learn my lesson. :D

Lets just say we'll agree to disagree and we'll find out this year and leave it at that. It should be fun. :)


You're right, it would be a waste of your time. It was a waste of my time too, but I wanted to make sure. I did.


ok. we'll see.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:12 pm 
NET Veteran
User avatar
Online

Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:12 am
Posts: 6349
@Skinny_Post: AJ Jenkins is only wide receiver taken in first round since 1970 merger who didn't catch a single pass for team that drafted him. #49ers"


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:12 am 
NET Practice Squad
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 6:21 pm
Posts: 90
-The Glove- wrote:
@Skinny_Post: AJ Jenkins is only wide receiver taken in first round since 1970 merger who didn't catch a single pass for team that drafted him. #49ers"


I like that Harbaalke aren't afraid to admit that they made a mistake, and it certainly sends a very positive message to the rest of the team in that no one is anyone's baby, no one is handed anything and everything must be earned on the field. however, what a motherfreaking waste of a pick. head-scratcher from day one. maybe he can get it together, but he just doesn't seem to have it. he's a fast, fluid athlete, but doesn't seem like an NFL receiver.

oh well, Habaalke has really stacked the 49ers for the future so its not a huge blow by any means. the 2012 doesn't look too good but there were only 2 picks made in like the top 120 players. 2013 looks extremley promising, almost like the 2011/2010/2007 draft. and hopefully the coaching staff/team can mold Baldwin's natural physical gifts into at least a good seam-stretcher. he's got 41 catches in his two NFL seasons so he's already +1 vs. Aj in my book :) or rather, +41 I guess :D


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:37 am 
NET Veteran
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:58 am
Posts: 930
rideaducati wrote:
Go watch just the playoff games...He makes it from one side of the field to the other side a total of ZERO times. Try all you want to convince me otherwise and you won't be able to find ANY proof.


:?

Just off the top of my head and starting at the beginning of the playoff run I thought of the 50 yard completion to Frank Gore in the first quarter, and then went back and checked to make sure I was right. It's Kaepernick's third pass from his first playoff game. There's a high/low ladder read that he starts with to the right (neither of them are open), then he checks with Davis running the in across the middle of the field, and looks left and floats it over the defender to Gore who is already heading up field.

So, not debating if Kaepernick needs to improve getting through his progression or not (I think he does), but you're really overstating your case, dude. Something that you claim didn't happen once in three games happens in the first three minutes of the first game. :)


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:32 am 
NET Veteran
Online

Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:34 pm
Posts: 2015
Popeyejones wrote:
rideaducati wrote:
Go watch just the playoff games...He makes it from one side of the field to the other side a total of ZERO times. Try all you want to convince me otherwise and you won't be able to find ANY proof.


:?

Just off the top of my head and starting at the beginning of the playoff run I thought of the 50 yard completion to Frank Gore in the first quarter, and then went back and checked to make sure I was right. It's Kaepernick's third pass from his first playoff game. There's a high/low ladder read that he starts with to the right (neither of them are open), then he checks with Davis running the in across the middle of the field, and looks left and floats it over the defender to Gore who is already heading up field.

So, not debating if Kaepernick needs to improve getting through his progression or not (I think he does), but you're really overstating your case, dude. Something that you claim didn't happen once in three games happens in the first three minutes of the first game. :)


That play is also combined with a pretty touch pass to Gore that he supposedly can't throw. :D


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:53 am 
NET Bench Warmer
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:22 pm
Posts: 27
Marvin49 wrote:

The problem is that you don't know the call. You don't know the pre-snap read. You don't know anything about the design of the play and are simply looking for something not to like.


THIS THIS THIS

Tons of Monday Morning Armchair Quarterbacks in here.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:57 am 
*NET FCC Liaison*
User avatar
Online

Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 8:39 am
Posts: 22570
Location: Kirkland, WA
Alkasquawlik wrote:
THIS THIS THIS

Tons of Monday Morning Armchair Quarterbacks in here.


Kind of the bread & butter of what an NFL fan forum is for, no?

_________________
Sam Bradford is a game changer.

*He can change a win into a loss.
*He can change a loss into a win by getting injured.
*RedAlice is right.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:01 am 
NET Veteran
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:36 pm
Posts: 9818
Alkasquawlik wrote:
Marvin49 wrote:

The problem is that you don't know the call. You don't know the pre-snap read. You don't know anything about the design of the play and are simply looking for something not to like.


THIS THIS THIS

Tons of Monday Morning Armchair Quarterbacks in here.

Tons of homeristic forty ninnies trolls in here as well!

_________________
42-13, 29-3, and 23-17 and a Lombardi trophy from THIS century, deal with it niner trolls

SEATTLE SEAHAWKS SUPERBOWL XLVIII CHAMPIONS!


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:05 am 
NET Bench Warmer
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:22 pm
Posts: 27
RolandDeschain wrote:
Alkasquawlik wrote:
THIS THIS THIS

Tons of Monday Morning Armchair Quarterbacks in here.


Kind of the bread & butter of what an NFL fan forum is for, no?


Touche, my friend.

The fact of the matter is that none of us know the play call, pre snap reads, defensive adjustments, progressions of most plays.

@rideaducati - Please read this article from Sando. Halfway down the page, you'll see evidence that refutes your argument.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/ ... kaepernick


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:10 pm 
NET Starter
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:54 pm
Posts: 498
Every GM misses. The most regarded GM's in the league misses. It happens.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:23 pm 
*PLATINUM SUPPORTER*
*PLATINUM SUPPORTER*
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:00 pm
Posts: 8660
Location: Is Everything
mretrade wrote:
Every GM misses. The most regarded GM's in the league misses. It happens.



Not Scheider.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:44 pm 
NET Bench Warmer
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:22 pm
Posts: 27
CALIHAWK1 wrote:
mretrade wrote:
Every GM misses. The most regarded GM's in the league misses. It happens.



Not Scheider.


Who is Scheider? ;)


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:48 pm 
NET Practice Squad
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:30 am
Posts: 60
Location: Silverdale
Alkasquawlik wrote:
Who is Scheider? ;)


You know-

Roy, shot the tank, killed the shark, didn't miss.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:00 pm 
NET Starter
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:54 pm
Posts: 498
Most people regard Ozzie Newsome as the best GM in the league and he has had his fair share of misses.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:05 pm 
*Scott of Smacksville*
*Scott of Smacksville*
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:14 am
Posts: 10040
mretrade wrote:
Most people regard Ozzie Newsome as the best GM in the league and he has had his fair share of misses.

Rational people know this. The big mistake Baalke made in this one is being too determined to fix the need at WR. Same mistake Schneider made in 2011, a determination to toughen up the line with the first two picks. Seattle was picking O-line come hell or high water, so they forced it. Ballke did the same exact thing with Jenkins.

_________________
SEAHAWKS.NET. We All We Got, We All We Need


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:29 pm 
NET Starter
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:54 pm
Posts: 498
Probably. He was really high on Jenkins and claimed they sealed the draft envelope the night before. I however, wanted Stephen Hill.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:30 pm 
NET Veteran
Offline

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 2:40 pm
Posts: 499
Scottemojo wrote:
mretrade wrote:
Most people regard Ozzie Newsome as the best GM in the league and he has had his fair share of misses.

Rational people know this. The big mistake Baalke made in this one is being too determined to fix the need at WR. Same mistake Schneider made in 2011, a determination to toughen up the line with the first two picks. Seattle was picking O-line come hell or high water, so they forced it. Ballke did the same exact thing with Jenkins.

Jenkins was more of a luxury pick, like Lamichael James, than anything else. He wasn't drafted to solve any immediate WRs issues.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:40 pm 
NET Veteran
Offline

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 2:40 pm
Posts: 499
RolandDeschain wrote:
Marvin, I'd like it if you could point out the time and quarter on the clock and in which games it happened, in reference to Ducati's statement, there. I haven't charted or watched Kaepernick's playoff games closely. (Didn't even watch all of them.)

at 1:46 in this link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j1p9HXaCzs


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:29 pm 
* Mr Random Thought *
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:44 am
Posts: 9805
Scottemojo wrote:
mretrade wrote:
Most people regard Ozzie Newsome as the best GM in the league and he has had his fair share of misses.

Rational people know this. The big mistake Baalke made in this one is being too determined to fix the need at WR. Same mistake Schneider made in 2011, a determination to toughen up the line with the first two picks. Seattle was picking O-line come hell or high water, so they forced it. Ballke did the same exact thing with Jenkins.


I think JS always does that though. We know for a fact that he drafts in every round based on roster upgrade. He got lucky with Okung and Thomas. Tackle and safety were major priorities that offseason. Okung was a top 4 pick IMO that fell a bit because that draft was loaded at the top, and Thomas was 95% the prospect Berry was and lasted a lot longer than he should have. Obviously then, you had Carp and Moffitt. Irvin was a "hell or high water" pick, and Rob and I successfully predicted they were bent on a LB in round two as well. Hill was very much a need pick in round 3. Really the only BPA type picks they've made was Michael in 2013 and Tate in 2010.

If there was a lesson to learn from Jenkins, I don't think Baalke learned it, judging by the trade up for Reid. You could argue that Tank Carradine was a BPA selection but that pick felt like a pretty iffy need pick to me personally.

I think both GMs will continue to draft for need early in the draft. At times it will work out, at others it will bite them in the ass. One thing I respect about Newsome is that he isn't afraid to put top needs off for the middle rounds and he generally makes BPA type selections early.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:43 pm 
*Scott of Smacksville*
*Scott of Smacksville*
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:14 am
Posts: 10040
Kip, I think there is a pretty big difference between best player at a position of need, and best player at the biggest need. First draft was the former, 2nd draft was the latter. At least for the first 2 picks.

_________________
SEAHAWKS.NET. We All We Got, We All We Need


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:30 pm 
NET Veteran
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:46 pm
Posts: 5461
Location: Kansas City, MO
Berry was WHAT? Holy Jesus Kip can I have that "maryjane" you're smoking? I know it's all legal in Washington but really? Berry is/was/will be overrated until he retires. He's top 10/15 but never top 5 EVER. No way is he elite sorry.

Then again Kansas City could be using him all wrong. Would not shock me.:)

_________________
43-8...it's all about that action boss....
next man up.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:43 pm 
*NET FCC Liaison*
User avatar
Online

Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 8:39 am
Posts: 22570
Location: Kirkland, WA
SoHo9erFan wrote:
RolandDeschain wrote:
Marvin, I'd like it if you could point out the time and quarter on the clock and in which games it happened, in reference to Ducati's statement, there. I haven't charted or watched Kaepernick's playoff games closely. (Didn't even watch all of them.)

at 1:46 in this link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j1p9HXaCzs

Ducati specifically said in the playoffs, though. :229031_shrug:

_________________
Sam Bradford is a game changer.

*He can change a win into a loss.
*He can change a loss into a win by getting injured.
*RedAlice is right.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:44 pm 
NET Veteran
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:46 pm
Posts: 5461
Location: Kansas City, MO
Scottemojo wrote:
Kip, I think there is a pretty big difference between best player at a position of need, and best player at the biggest need. First draft was the former, 2nd draft was the latter. At least for the first 2 picks.

For my education why is this being seriously discussed? Given Okung is a top 5 talent and panned out besides? I would bet real money the other picks Kip is bitching likely did pretty much similar?

_________________
43-8...it's all about that action boss....
next man up.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:18 am 
*SILVER SUPPORTER*
*SILVER SUPPORTER*
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:40 am
Posts: 4362
Location: Southern CA
In John and Pete's first draft pretty much any pick could have been seen as based on need because the team needed such an overhaul. You could possibly even say the same about year two.

_________________
Help bring peace to the South LA / Puget Sound communities. Are you in?
http://www.abetterla.org | http://www.abetterseattle.com


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:24 pm 
* Mr Random Thought *
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:44 am
Posts: 9805
Berry was almost unanimously considered the better safety prospect of the two, and has had a nice career when healthy. Thomas was a hustle, try hard playmaker with speed and smarts. But Berry was a superstar at times with Tennessee and played in a bigger body with similar speed. Berry was definitely the better prospect, and we have it on good info that Seattle would have drafted Berry over both Thomas and Okung at #6 had he had reached us.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:28 pm 
* Mr Random Thought *
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:44 am
Posts: 9805
Scottemojo wrote:
Kip, I think there is a pretty big difference between best player at a position of need, and best player at the biggest need. First draft was the former, 2nd draft was the latter. At least for the first 2 picks.


In the first draft, half the team was a pressing need, true. But Alex Gibbs came here on the condition that we draft a franchise tackle in the 1st round, and Pete made a huge deal about finding his centerfielder that offseason (hence the rampant Taylor Mays rumors). It would have been very hard to find a safety that can do what Earl does at the #60 pick. So barring an unexpected drop by Bradford, Suh, McCoy, I think Seattle was pretty locked in at T/S with the #6 pick while hoping to get the other at #14. 2010 was, IMO, in the latter category.

In the second draft, yes. It was the latter category for sure.

The third draft was latter category as well. Their top three prospects in 2012 were all guys that would have upgraded their biggest problem areas (fast LB, pass rush), though one of those picks (Barron) would have done so indirectly.

Fourth draft, Harvin. But JS did say that if he kept the pick, it wouldn't have been used on a WR. He also said that DT was the teams only pressing need, and he took Hill a bit earlier than many thought he should have. I can only speculate, but my guess is they sprint to the podium for Datone Jones at #25. Highly athletic, upward trajectory, peaking at the right time, good interviewer- a "buy in" type dude, high upside, SoCal / Pac-12 connection, and in need of coaching up. He was PC/JS to a tee. Though Jones was such a good value there, you could viably argue BPA.


Last edited by kearly on Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:48 pm 
NET Veteran
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:18 pm
Posts: 1438
SoHo9erFan wrote:
RolandDeschain wrote:
Marvin, I'd like it if you could point out the time and quarter on the clock and in which games it happened, in reference to Ducati's statement, there. I haven't charted or watched Kaepernick's playoff games closely. (Didn't even watch all of them.)

at 1:46 in this link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j1p9HXaCzs


I don't think that was a playoff game. If you watch a lot of Kaep's passes, he looks one way while dropping back, but as soon as he hits his drop he throws to the other side. He does this quite a bit so I don't consider it a read. The "read", if there is one is on the side where he actually passes the ball. If you notice, there are two receivers in his sight line, the read is high or low.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:38 pm 
NET Veteran
Offline

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 2:40 pm
Posts: 499
rideaducati wrote:
SoHo9erFan wrote:
RolandDeschain wrote:
Marvin, I'd like it if you could point out the time and quarter on the clock and in which games it happened, in reference to Ducati's statement, there. I haven't charted or watched Kaepernick's playoff games closely. (Didn't even watch all of them.)

at 1:46 in this link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j1p9HXaCzs


I don't think that was a playoff game. If you watch a lot of Kaep's passes, he looks one way while dropping back, but as soon as he hits his drop he throws to the other side. He does this quite a bit so I don't consider it a read. The "read", if there is one is on the side where he actually passes the ball. If you notice, there are two receivers in his sight line, the read is high or low.

Who cares if it wasn't a playoff game? What does that have to do with anything? What you're ignoring is that the 49ers run a west coast offense. Short drops, quick passes. Their offense is designed that way. When Kaep rolls out of the pocket, he almost always targets nonprimary receivers.

I just don't see the point when it comes to questioning Kaep's ability to find 2nd and 3rd targets. The guy completed 62.4% of his passes. What's your suggestion to stop him??? Find out who his primary target is on a play and double team him. I would really love to see a team try it. Not only would it be very difficult to discern who that receiver is presnap, I really don't think it's going to slow Kaep down.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:55 pm 
NET Veteran
Online

Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:34 pm
Posts: 2015
SoHo9erFan wrote:
rideaducati wrote:
SoHo9erFan wrote:


I don't think that was a playoff game. If you watch a lot of Kaep's passes, he looks one way while dropping back, but as soon as he hits his drop he throws to the other side. He does this quite a bit so I don't consider it a read. The "read", if there is one is on the side where he actually passes the ball. If you notice, there are two receivers in his sight line, the read is high or low.

Who cares if it wasn't a playoff game? What does that have to do with anything? What you're ignoring is that the 49ers run a west coast offense. Short drops, quick passes. Their offense is designed that way. When Kaep rolls out of the pocket, he almost always targets nonprimary receivers.

I just don't see the point when it comes to questioning Kaep's ability to find 2nd and 3rd targets. The guy completed 62.4% of his passes. What's your suggestion to stop him??? Find out who his primary target is on a play and double team him. I would really love to see a team try it. Not only would it be very difficult to discern who that receiver is presnap, I really don't think it's going to slow Kaep down.


And still they skip how much of the play is dictated by pre-snap reads.

Most often he DOESN'T HAVE to go to his 3rd or 4th read because the 1st or second is open to him.

Essentially the criticism is that the rest of his team and the playcalling has to suck badly before we can say he's not total garbage. SMH. Moreover...his recievers can't be on the same side of the field so it has to be a play in which his entire helmet turns. His eyes switching targets doesn't count. LOL. It doesn't matter if it play action with only 3 recievers in the pattern....we only count the stuff that makes HIS point, not reality.

Just give up dude. I did. He isn't convincable because he wants so badly for his little delusion to be true.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:25 pm 
NET Veteran
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:06 am
Posts: 2045
In other news, the San Francisco 49ers trade Five-Thousand dollars to the Oakland Raiders for Four-Thousand dollars.

Seriously though, Baldwin isn't a terrible pick up. It's pretty obvious that there is some panic at the WR position right now, and no solid number one(this season). Have fun dealing with that all year SF. Next to Oakland, this has got to be one of the worst WR units in the NFL (not the very worst, but another injury and that just may be the case). Looking at the depth chart right now, and it loks BAD.

_________________
Image

Go Hawks.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:35 pm 
NET Veteran
Offline

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 2:40 pm
Posts: 499
SouthSoundHawk wrote:
In other news, the San Francisco 49ers trade Five-Thousand dollars to the Oakland Raiders for Four-Thousand dollars.

Seriously though, Baldwin isn't a terrible pick up. It's pretty obvious that there is some panic at the WR position right now, and no solid number one(this season). Have fun dealing with that all year SF. Next to Oakland, this has got to be one of the worst WR units in the NFL (not the very worst, but another injury and that just may be the case). Looking at the depth chart right now, and it loks BAD.

Agreed. But if the 49ers line up Boldin, Kyle Williams, and Austin Collie (assuming he's healthy), I wouldn't be all that concerned. By Week 6, Manningham should be back and by then I would be content with the WR core. By December Crabtree will be back, and I will feel even more comfortable than last season assuming no other WRs go down with injuries.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:39 pm 
NET Veteran
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:46 pm
Posts: 5461
Location: Kansas City, MO
kearly wrote:
Berry was almost unanimously considered the better safety prospect of the two, and has had a nice career when healthy. Thomas was a hustle, try hard playmaker with speed and smarts. But Berry was a superstar at times with Tennessee and played in a bigger body with similar speed. Berry was definitely the better prospect, and we have it on good info that Seattle would have drafted Berry over both Thomas and Okung at #6 had he had reached us.

Thank God they didn't Berry is good but he sure isn't what I would consider elite. It could be the system they ran though. Kansas City is going to more press coverage this year so my opinion can change given the defense definitely looks far better than it has for years.

_________________
43-8...it's all about that action boss....
next man up.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:43 pm 
NET Veteran
Offline

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 2:40 pm
Posts: 499
KCHawkGirl wrote:
kearly wrote:
Berry was almost unanimously considered the better safety prospect of the two, and has had a nice career when healthy. Thomas was a hustle, try hard playmaker with speed and smarts. But Berry was a superstar at times with Tennessee and played in a bigger body with similar speed. Berry was definitely the better prospect, and we have it on good info that Seattle would have drafted Berry over both Thomas and Okung at #6 had he had reached us.

Thank God they didn't Berry is good but he sure isn't what I would consider elite. It could be the system they ran though. Kansas City is going to more press coverage this year so my opinion can change given the defense definitely looks far better than it has for years.

Berry is definitely top 8 at his position. I'd rather have ET though


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:48 pm 
NET Veteran
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:46 pm
Posts: 5461
Location: Kansas City, MO
SoHo9erFan wrote:
KCHawkGirl wrote:
kearly wrote:
Berry was almost unanimously considered the better safety prospect of the two, and has had a nice career when healthy. Thomas was a hustle, try hard playmaker with speed and smarts. But Berry was a superstar at times with Tennessee and played in a bigger body with similar speed. Berry was definitely the better prospect, and we have it on good info that Seattle would have drafted Berry over both Thomas and Okung at #6 had he had reached us.

Thank God they didn't Berry is good but he sure isn't what I would consider elite. It could be the system they ran though. Kansas City is going to more press coverage this year so my opinion can change given the defense definitely looks far better than it has for years.

Berry is definitely top 8 at his position. I'd rather have ET though

Don't see it but I will trust you. Seems good not great to me. But that could be anything from the system ran, the state of the overall position, or even the rules that handcuff defenses and defensive players.

_________________
43-8...it's all about that action boss....
next man up.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 9ers trade AJ Jenkins to Chiefs for Jon Baldwin
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:55 pm 
NET Veteran
Offline

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 2:40 pm
Posts: 499
KCHawkGirl wrote:
Don't see it but I will trust you. Seems good not great to me. But that could be anything from the system ran, the state of the overall position, or even the rules that handcuff defenses and defensive players.

Sidenote: I think that the NFL currently lacks an abundance of quality Safeties. A decade ago it seemed like every team had one Safety that was a household name. Now, that doesn't seem the case. Which is surprising since it has become more of a passing-centric league.


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 98 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Board index » SEAHAWKS.NET - THE VOICE OF THE 12TH MAN » [ NFL NATION ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ccla, Evil_Shenanigans, HawksSoc, lucky49, Marvin49, Onyx, Seanhawk, TXHawk and 33 guests

 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Seahawks.NET is an independent fan site and not associated with the Seattle Seahawks or the NFL (National Football League).
All content within this Seahawks fan page is provided by, and for, Seattle Seahawks fans. Copyright © Seahawks.NET.