Two things that shouldn't be overlooked

Russell Wilson was spied effectively, rarely had time to throw, and was hurt some by mistakes from his playmakers. And yet despite this, he posted an 8.1 YPA, a 68% completion rate, and a 119.1 passer rating. Wilson played a hell of a game, but just never had the football.

Which ties into the second thing, Antonio Gates might be making a case for comeback player of the year. He faced a very tough defense on the road in week 1 and was productive that game too (basically the same yards per catch as he had against Seattle, with one fewer catch). In this game, Gates was targeted seven times and caught all seven for 96 yards and 3 TDs. Seemingly all of them contested with tough coverage. It was highly reminiscent of Tony Gonzalez in the playoffs a couple years ago.

Rivers did play a hell of a game, and the Chargers coaches did a great job... but the difference was Gates. Here are what Rivers' numbers look like if you exclude the Gates targets:

21/30, 188 yards, 0 TDs, 0 INTs. 70% completion rate. 6.26 YPA. 85.5 rating.

Now of course, the Gates targets DO count and I'm not trying to deny Rivers credit for making some amazing throws. Just trying to illustrate how big a difference Gates made. That adjusted line looks awfully familiar by the way. Where have I seen that before? Lets compare those adjusted numbers to a mystery QB:

21/30, 188 yards, 0 TDs, 0 INTs. 70.0% completion rate. 6.26 YPA. 85.5 rating.
23/33, 189 yards, 0 TDs, 1 INTs. 69.7% completion rate. 5.73 YPA. 81.5 rating.

That mystery QB was Aaron Rodgers in week 1.

Seattle has struggled with big pass catching TEs in the past. The Chargers recognized this and made Gates a huge part of their game plan on money downs. Based on this, I don't think Seattle's defense actually played all that poorly on Sunday, although it does appear that they have a very big problem with certain kinds of TEs.

In the end, if Harvin doesn't fumble we probably win that game. If Irvin borrowed scarecrows brain, we probably win that one.

When I was watching yesterday and Gates was basically having his way with us, I felt haunted by so many tight ends of our past games. It has been a weakness for us for a long time. We'd been playing much better against them recently, but this game just reminded me that it's still the weakest link in our defense. it's by no means the be all end all for how to beat us, but it is an area where we need to be on the top of our game to shut that down.

I was starting to actually think to myself, that I wished they'd adjust the defense and put Sherman on Gates. I truly think that would have been a game changing move, but that's now how our defense operates and who knows if someone else would have stepped up.

I think our most recent history shows we own most TE's. julius thomas, jimmy graham, Vernon davis, Jason whitten haven't had much success in games against us. That's why I was stunned at how easily Gates was able to dominate the game. I think Cam is a little rusty from not having much preseason under him.

Have to regroup as Julius Thomas will be coming to town next.

I think they do have some trouble with savvy TEs who have enough years to get away with some contact. Gates made some incredible plays. Gonzalez ended our season in 2012. I'm not as afraid of purely athletic TEs e.g. VD, I'm Jimmy, or Julius Thomas. We can match those guys athlete-for-athlete without much trouble.

You take Gates out of the equation, then I don't think Rivers gets in the endzone. He can dominate T.O.P. as much as he wants, but his ability to convert RZ opps into TDs was the difference and that was due to Gates. He was a huge factor in this game.

SalishHawkFan":u82q91xl said:

In the end, if Harvin doesn't fumble we probably win that game. If Irvin borrowed scarecrows brain, we probably win that one.

Click to expand...

Yup, that was 11 points we gave them for free. That's part of why I'm not buying the crap that our D is in trouble when I see it on here.

The good side.

A lot a good film came out of this game. Gonna be some intense studies this week!!

Also, Wilson still managed to have a 68% comp pct with 3 or 4 of those incompletions being throwaways due to pressure. Pretty damn impressive.

Sunday Gates reminded me of Kellen Winslow.

I know Seattle has struggled against some big pass-catching TEs, as we have seen with Tony Gonzalez and last Sunday with Gates.

How did they do such a great job against Jimmy Graham, Vernon Davis, and Julius Thomas last year?

I think part of it was that Rivers was just on. There were a handful of throws to Gates where they just made great plays and the coverage wasn't all that bad. They definitely got beat a few times but I wouldn't put it all on that. I read a scouts view on it after reviewing the game tape and he said Rivers made 6 throws that were just perfect and they won as a result. Sometimes it happens.

Seemed like this game Kam and KJ (hell our whole secondary for that matter) were both less than themselves. That combined with the fact that Lane was out, so we had new blood out there that may, or may not have been in sync with our vets. To take nothing away from Gates, because he was frankly a stud that game! But it just shows that you truly need the motor firing on all cylinders to be at the top of this game.

KJ looked gassed on a good number of plays and Rivers to Gates was perfection on both ends.

They deserved the W.

I think the problem was with the pass rush and giving too much room for short, underneath routes. It is the latter that kept drives alive. It's the former that allowed Rivers to connect on those few big plays to Gates. In the Super Bowl, Peyton was regularly pressured and anyone catching a short pass was hit and tackled immediately.

We can certainly put more pressure on the short passing game, that's just positioning and awareness. A better pass rush? I don't know. Is SD Oline better than what we saw in the SB? Has Denver taken steps to upgrade their Oline. Will be an interesting game come Sunday. So many questions and so much hoopla regarding SB III against Denver.

DavidSeven":8tiazntu said:

I think they do have some trouble with savvy TEs who have enough years to get away with some contact. Gates made some incredible plays. Gonzalez ended our season in 2012. I'm not as afraid of purely athletic TEs e.g. VD, I'm Jimmy, or Julius Thomas. We can match those guys athlete-for-athlete without much trouble.

You take Gates out of the equation, then I don't think Rivers gets in the endzone. He can dominate T.O.P. as much as he wants, but his ability to convert RZ opps into TDs was the difference and that was due to Gates. He was a huge factor in this game.

Click to expand...

It's not just savvy TEs, though that's a big part of it. Those other TEs (David, Jimmy, and Thomas) all play like big receivers, rather than like big TEs. Gates plays box out positioning better than any TE out there. Also, this is the best QB-TE combo in the history of the game. They know what each other are doing regardless of the D. These days the main question is whether Gates still has enough in the tank for a full season grind.

kearly":2n1vjhc2 said:

Now of course, the Gates targets DO count and I'm not trying to deny Rivers credit for making some amazing throws. Just trying to illustrate how big a difference Gates made. That adjusted line looks awfully familiar by the way. Where have I seen that before? Lets compare those adjusted numbers to a mystery QB:

21/30, 188 yards, 0 TDs, 0 INTs. 70.0% completion rate. 6.26 YPA. 85.5 rating.
23/33, 189 yards, 0 TDs, 1 INTs. 69.7% completion rate. 5.73 YPA. 81.5 rating.

Click to expand...

To me the takeaway is that even if you takeaway 100 yards and 3 TDs from Rivers, across two games the Hawks have given up a 70% completion percentage. That's against two great QBs, but it's tied for third worst in the league compared to them being tied for 8th best in the league last year (they're also below average in average yards per completion so far this year, compared to be the best team in the league last year).

This is no doubt gonna change as they're not going to play the whole season against guys like Rodgers and Rivers, but IMO it's much more noteworthy than eliminating Gates' big performance from the stats.

SalishHawkFan":1fl4ropi said:

In the end, if Harvin doesn't fumble we probably win that game. If Irvin borrowed scarecrows brain, we probably win that one.

Click to expand...

The Hawks lost by two scores, which tends to counteract remarkably well against the "If just this one thing" stories. (That's without even bringing up the inherently faulty premise "just this one thing" stories, as of course, with "just one" different thing the Hawks could have lost by three scores rather than two).

Popeyejones":1frzm72u said:

The Hawks lost by two scores, which tends to counteract remarkably well against the "If just this one thing" stories. (That's without even bringing up the inherently faulty premise "just this one thing" stories, as of course, with "just one" different thing the Hawks could have lost by three scores rather than two).

Click to expand...

Yep.

Though, there is ONE thing that may have turned the tides: KEEPING OUR PLAYERS PROPERLY HYDRATED. (Yeah, I'm a little angry at that one, lol.)

Popeyejones":3l81ke67 said:

kearly":3l81ke67 said:

Now of course, the Gates targets DO count and I'm not trying to deny Rivers credit for making some amazing throws. Just trying to illustrate how big a difference Gates made. That adjusted line looks awfully familiar by the way. Where have I seen that before? Lets compare those adjusted numbers to a mystery QB:

21/30, 188 yards, 0 TDs, 0 INTs. 70.0% completion rate. 6.26 YPA. 85.5 rating.
23/33, 189 yards, 0 TDs, 1 INTs. 69.7% completion rate. 5.73 YPA. 81.5 rating.

Click to expand...

To me the takeaway is that even if you takeaway 100 yards and 3 TDs from Rivers, across two games the Hawks have given up a 70% completion percentage. That's against two great QBs, but it's tied for third worst in the league compared to them being tied for 8th best in the league last year (they're also below average in average yards per completion so far this year, compared to be the best team in the league last year).

This is no doubt gonna change as they're not going to play the whole season against guys like Rodgers and Rivers, but IMO it's much more noteworthy than eliminating Gates' big performance from the stats.

Click to expand...

I'm not worried about opposing QB completion percentage. Peyton completed like 70% in the SB. It's about scoring obviously but they got beat over the top. Our linebackers are not winning their match ups in the passing game and that is unusual.

When the talking head said the field temperature was 120 degrees I felt dread wash over me. I had heard Petes' "It's the same temperature on both sides of the ball." stupidity. Conditioning and jersey color are not to be ignored.

It seemed the most players coming off of injury fared the worst.