Carroll second to Belichick?

salamander

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According to a poll by Sando of league insiders, Pete came out second only to Belichick in a rating of all coaches in the leageu. Following the team so closely over the last few years, its hard to imagine anyone could be better than Carroll. I think in a year or two Pete's at the top of the list.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/ ... ches-tiers

If anyone has ESPN insider it would be cool to share some of the thoughts on Pete.
Thanks!
 

TXHawk

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From the article:

2. Pete Carroll, Seattle Seahawks (1.23 average)

Carroll's sky-high ranking was one of the revelations of this project. I figured Carroll would be on the rise following the Seahawks' Super Bowl championship, but second in the NFL to Belichick already?

"With Pete, the way they manage the game and manage their personnel is probably better than anybody," one GM said.

It has been a total transformation, with Carroll and GM John Schneider working well together to stock the roster with young players the staff has developed consistently. Consider: In the three years before Carroll's arrival, Seattle lost 19 games by more than seven points. Their current 45-game streak without such a defeat dates to Week 9 of the 2011 season and is the longest in the league. Belichick's Patriots are second with just two such defeats over the same span.

One former GM who listed Carroll as a 2 said he did not think Carroll was quite innovative enough from a scheme standpoint to rank near the very top. However, another voter said he had read Carroll's book multiple times, trying to glean whatever he could.

"He relates great to players, is a great motivator, good manager, can put together a good staff; he is connected with all that and you have to give that guy a lot of credit personally for their defensive scheme and how they play it," a former GM said. "The other thing Pete does a good job of is, even when there is controversy, he goes with the flow and doesn't come down too hard. He coaches people loose instead of being uptight. Players can perform and react very well. He does not have to jump in. And he is not afraid to play young guys, which is another really good thing."

The three coaches atop this ranking have all won Super Bowls, but none has won one quite the way Carroll did this past season: 43-8 over a record-setting Denver team. "When you say his name, the first thing you think of is the absolute a-- whipping he issued to John Fox in the Super Bowl," one executive said. "If it had been a tight game and the ball bounced one way at the end, he lucked out. But the absolute dominant fashion they won that game in, people are going, 'Holy crap.' No disrespect to Joe Flacco, but he did not beat Flacco. He beat Peyton Manning, and he beat him soundly."
 

Sgt. Largent

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While I think that the Pats have been an overrated team over the past 10 years due to feasting on a god awful AFC East that's perennially terrible, it's hard to argue with 3 SB rings.
 

HawkinNY

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He went from not being able to coach in the NFL and his Rah Rah style only works in college. To the second rated coach in the NFL. Not bad. And I believe years down the road they will look back and say he changed the way NFL coaches treat their players. Plus before he came here I never heard the word competition as much as you do now in the NFL.
 

NorthDallas40oz

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If I were starting an expansion team I'd take PC over Belichick and anyone else. That said, Belichick absolutely deserves to remain #1 on this list due to 5 SB appearances, 3 SB wins, a 16-0 season and a whole slew of records along the way. PC needs a lot more skins on the wall than just the 2013 season to ascend to #1, and yet being #2 on this list already is a great sign of respect.
 

Chapow

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Sgt. Largent":17q278jy said:
... it's hard to argue with 3 SB rings.

Exactly.

Until Pete gets another ring or two, Belichick will remain the top rated coach.
 

sc85sis

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I think Pete doesn't get enough credit sometimes for being able to scheme. He can, he just coaches and teaches so well that it isn't usually needed. What good is a crazy complicated scheme if guys can't execute it.

Or as the old saying goes, it's not about the Xs and Os, it's about the Jimmies and Joes.
 

pmedic920

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Perfect example of an owner giving a coach all the tools he needs to succeed.
Combined with that coach being smart and having a plan that reaches beyond the present.
Jerry Jones should take a lesson.
 

Sgt. Largent

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pmedic920":39rclkjo said:
Perfect example of an owner giving a coach all the tools he needs to succeed.
Combined with that coach being smart and having a plan that reaches beyond the present.
Jerry Jones should take a lesson.

Jones has had 25 years to take lessons, if he hasn't figured it out by now he's never going to.

That's the problem with most sports team owners, they're highly successful business moguls that think they can apply their success to the sports world.

Which is just fine with me btw, the Cowboys imploding every year is one of the things I look forward to most in the NFL.
 

Polaris

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I agree with a lot of others here. While I actually think Pete is better than Belichick, I think the ranking is completely fair until because Belichick has more 'skins' on the wall.
 

Brahn

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Sgt. Largent":wx9dwgff said:
pmedic920":wx9dwgff said:
Perfect example of an owner giving a coach all the tools he needs to succeed.
Combined with that coach being smart and having a plan that reaches beyond the present.
Jerry Jones should take a lesson.

Jones has had 25 years to take lessons, if he hasn't figured it out by now he's never going to.

That's the problem with most sports team owners, they're highly successful business moguls that think they can apply their success to the sports world.

Which is just fine with me btw, the Cowboys imploding every year is one of the things I look forward to most in the NFL.


My favorite part is the Seahawks built the team Al Davis always wanted. Jerry Jones needs to take a page and step down from football operations and just bang those young lasses.
 

TheHawkster

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I swear, the defense will be even better because of the new defensive holding rules.
It's like the FO sees the future.
This team works the system at a whole new level.
 

Polaris

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Sgt. Largent":11v0rjlu said:
Which is just fine with me btw, the Cowboys imploding every year is one of the things I look forward to most in the NFL.

What's even better is that the Seahawks get to take part in the yearly Cowboy implosion at least this year.
 

HansGruber

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Well, considering that Belichick is the best NFL coach in the history of the game, it's a flattering spot to place Carroll. He's got win a couple more Superbowls and remain consistently in the hunt for a while to take the #1 spot. Say what you want about Belichick, that Patriots team has remained in Superbowl contention from the day he arrived, for over a decade, in the salary cap era. What Belichick has done in New England is simply incredible.

Although I agree that if I had to start from scratch, I'd go with Pete Carroll. I hate to say this, but I think Belichick has had the advantage of working with Tom Brady and that's a large part of his success. Brady has really masked a lot of problems with the Patriots, problems that are a result of poor drafting and player development. I think Carroll is head-and-shoulders above Belichick when it comes to player development and talent recruitment. His career at USC confirms that for me, as well.

Overall, it doesn't matter. Carroll will be inducted in the NFL Hall of Fame after he retires, as will Belichick. I'm just glad we got a winner and that everything turned out okay. I remember Seahawk fans clamoring for John Gruden. There's no doubt in my mind whatsoever that Carroll is a vastly better coach than Gruden and anything else we might have found when we hired Pete. And I LOVE the guy for finally winning us a Lombardi!!
 

sc85sis

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.com has some info on this in the Tuesday Round-Up article.

Sando writes: "Bill Belichick led the way with 28 votes in the first tier, followed by Pete Carroll (23) and Sean Payton (22). No one else commanded more than a dozen top-tier votes, drawing a clear line after these three coaches in the eyes of the 30 insiders."

http://www.seahawks.com/news/articles/a ... 10c9924774
 
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salamander

salamander

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pmedic920":akicy3he said:
Perfect example of an owner giving a coach all the tools he needs to succeed.
Combined with that coach being smart and having a plan that reaches beyond the present.
Jerry Jones should take a lesson.

This may be off-topic, but I don't think Jerry Jones cares much about winning. The Cowboys are number one in value/money.

"The Cowboys are the NFL's most valuable team for a sixth straight year thanks to the league's highest sponsorship and premium seating revenues—a combined $200 million. The Cowboys are the first American sports franchise worth more than $2 billion."

It sucks for their fans, but Jerry is doing fine.
 

DavidSeven

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Interesting that you guys are framing his ranking as "Second to Belichick" instead of "One of the best in the NFL, higher than Payton, Harbaugh, McCarthy, etc."

I also think Pete is the best in the biz right now, but when I first heard about this ranking, I took this as something to be flattered about, not yet another slight against all things Seahawks.
 

Hawks46

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sc85sis":11ilfit9 said:
I think Pete doesn't get enough credit sometimes for being able to scheme. He can, he just coaches and teaches so well that it isn't usually needed. What good is a crazy complicated scheme if guys can't execute it.

Or as the old saying goes, it's not about the Xs and Os, it's about the Jimmies and Joes.

Exactly. Holmgren was considered one of the best X's and O's guys, yet his scheme, and execution of it, was fairly complicated, especially the reads between the WRs and QBs.

You could see it when we got an injury or two. The backups seemed to read plays a bit slower and it really screwed up the offense. When it was on, it was a thing of beauty, but the problem is: there are always injuries, and if your scheme is so dependent on starters performing this precise choreography, it's doomed to have a ton of problems.

Pete is the opposite. Our schemes seem to be a bit simpler, and we have crazy depth. When a guy gets hurt, next man up usually performs damn near as good. It's actually got a lot of people wondering just how good our secondary is, or is it just the "scheme"? Which makes no sense as the scheme is simple and not designed to confuse the opposing offense to make up for personnel deficiencies.
 

Smelly McUgly

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HansGruber":3nlbanic said:
Well, considering that Belichick is the best NFL coach in the history of the game, it's a flattering spot to place Carroll.

While I don't disagree with your post in spirit, Bill Walsh is probably actually the best NFL coach ever. He made the passing game extremely viable at the pro level, building on what Don Coryell did at SDSU.
 

Meeker

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One former GM who listed Carroll as a 2 said he did not think Carroll was quite innovative enough from a scheme standpoint to rank near the very top. However, another voter said he had read Carroll's book multiple times, trying to glean whatever he could.

I wonder how the same GM ranked Belichick. Its not as if his schemes are innovative.
 
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