Impending new emphasis on defensive holds

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Impending new emphasis on defensive holds
Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:22 am
  • per Mike Pereira:
    https://twitter.com/MikePereira/status/ ... 0248307712

    I put this on the Hawks forum because like many of you who viewed the Hawks' 2014 schedule, I believe the nfl is conspiring against us this year -- and this is another way to do it. Take clean plays and throw penalties at the most physcial DB's in football.
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    oasis
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  • Meh, it'll hurt every team equally.
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  • They say that every year it seems like they also said that in the run up to the Super Bowl. It doesn't matter as long as they call it fairly for both teams something they rarely do.
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  • From Pereira:
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    therealsm
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  • I'm not worried. The notion that Seattle gets away with holding all the time is bullshit anyway.
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  • therealsm wrote:From Pereira:

    Much ado about nothing.
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    next man up.
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  • oasis wrote:I believe the nfl is conspiring against us this year -- and this is another way to do it.


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  • Meh. Our guys are students of the game. If they alter the rules, or change the way they enforce them, our guys will figure out what they're doing and still have an advantage. They flagged Browner a few times at first, but that was more of a "Welcome to the NFL, rookie" than anything else. That all simmered down after a few games.

    I'm more worried about their penchant for throwing flags and levying fines on legal hits than this.
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  • Seahawks don't get away with any of that stuff any more than anyone else does, this is yet another myth that begins by some dumbass analyst making an unverified observation of an isolated scenario. This perception is only kept alive because they are good.

    holds and contact have nothing to do with the fact that Thomas covers the whole field and essentially makes it so that the D is quite literally playing with 11.5 or 12 men because he's that good.

    Which basically frees Kam up to cover the middle and take that away

    which means our corners can blast guys legally at the line and then shut them down.

    Excuses excuses.
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  • Birdfinger wrote:Mike PereiraVerified account ‏@MikePereira

    Btw, officials were shown many plays regarding illegal contact and defensive holding. How many Seahawk plays???. None.

    https://twitter.com/MikePereira/status/ ... 1208710144


    That's the key right there. People love to hate on the Hawks, but most of the "holding" they do that opposing fans complain about is perfectly legal.

    The illegal stuff they do is the same amount as every other team in the league, and it is usually called correctly. Most of it is usually a panic reaction to being beat on a play, not an intention.
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  • Once again teams and fans thinking it's about us, we play within the rules, the biggest problem is most the fans don't know the rules so think we are committing penalties.
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  • That stuff is fine, I don't care what they call as long as they do it evenly.

    I would like to see some more attention made to offsides not being called.

    The other thing I would like to see is no holding calls made against a player who is offsides. I have seen offsetting penalties called where the defensive player left early and to protect the QB a blocker will grab the offside player. That is ridiculous and should be evaluated.
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  • I expect this to be an issue in the preseason and early in the regular season. Refs called games super tight in the preseason last year, making some of those games almost unwatchable. Pete likes to push the envelope and go as far as he can without getting whacked. That will result in some growing pains early in the season before Seattle adjusts.

    Maxwell grabbed players illegally quite often and was called for it only rarely since a lot of those plays were in the postseason where refs are notoriously lax. I already expected him to be a penalty magnet before reading this, so it should be interesting to see how he does when he can't grab quite as much.
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  • The Seahawks were the most penalized team in the league last year and still won the Super Bowl, although I think about half of them came on Robert Turbin runs rather than defensive holding.

    Not worried about it.
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  • People don't know the rules. They don't understand the difference in rules from before the QB releases the ball and when the QB leaves the pocket compared to when the ball is in the air. Our coaches and players do and they play within those rules but to the average viewer it looks like penalties.
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  • Scottemojo wrote:I'm not worried. The notion that Seattle gets away with holding all the time is bullshit anyway.


    Both Greg Cosell and Cian Fahey said that thought was overblown and the Hawks don't get away with it anymore than any other team and both watch an extensive amount of film, the latter of which focused on DBs.
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  • Those with an ounce of knowledge of the Hawks coaching staff know that the rules are reviewed over and over. That is why they pay Referees to attend Training Camp.
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  • loafoftatupu wrote:The other thing I would like to see is no holding calls made against a player who is offsides. I have seen offsetting penalties called where the defensive player left early and to protect the QB a blocker will grab the offside player. That is ridiculous and should be evaluated.

    Actually the rules are already in place to prevent the QB from being hit in that scenario. "Encroachment" is generally thought of as defensive players contacting offensive players before the snap, but it also includes defensive players having a direct path to the QB. They blow the whistle when that happens, and if the defensive player still hits the QB it's a personal foul for a late hit. It's the reason why some apparent offsides penalties get blown dead. Any holding penalty an offensive lineman commits to try to protect his quarterback is his own fault for not knowing the rules.
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  • Harbaugh will find out something else to cry about.
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  • Jealousy, jealousy, jealously....

    It's widely discussed amongst fans of teams who get destroyed by the LOB that the Hawks must be cheating to be that good. :roll:
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  • We are going to be impacted less by this rule than everybody else is.

    There isn't a coach in the league that doesn't tell the refs to put an emphasis on watching our physical play. During ever week heading up to our game, the officials that drew our game are watching film and taking instructions about how to call a game with the LOB. We're already being watched "like a Hawk", and already do accrue the most penalties on the back end.

    Now, in theory, all the other teams will be watched as closely as we already are.
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  • TXHawk wrote:The Seahawks were the most penalized team in the league last year and still won the Super Bowl, although I think about half of them came on Robert Turbin runs rather than defensive holding.

    Not worried about it.


    No doubt... Turbin was robbed of at least 250 yards of rushing for that.
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  • "Impending new emphasis on defensive holds"
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  • Oh yippee just what the NFL needs more flags :sarcasm_off:

    This is about two things - (1) more offense and (2) an overreaction to watching Peyton get waxed in the SuprBol :P

    I'm confident the Hawks will adjust if necessary.
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  • Not sure if this factoid is totally relevant but I thought it was interesting.

    Apparently there is a stat called net penalty yardage differential. It adds up all penalty yards against and all penalty yards for and adds the numbers together.

    Seattle's net penalty yardage differential last season was -351, the worst such number in all of football. And this of course does not count yards lost from penalties (*cough* Robert Turbin *cough*), or drives that were extended by them, etc.

    And the Seahawks still won 16 out of 19 games.

    For comparison, the Rams were -31, the 49ers +77, the Cardinals +216.
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  • Scottemojo wrote:I'm not worried. The notion that Seattle gets away with holding all the time is bullshit anyway.

    Yep, as anyone who read my very long post last year quoting a bunch of things from the rule book knows. I think this actually benefits the Seahawks. Our guys are used to trying to be as physical as possible within the rules; they will acclimate to the changes more efficiently than players on other teams. We still led the league in penalties, but a lot of those were on our O-line, too.

    I really like the part about OPI being emphasized. I'm still annoyed that Demaryius Thomas wasn't called for that on Sherman on the one deep pass attempt PeyPey threw at Sherman. It was the right move by Demaryius because Sherman was friggin' ahead of him and it was likely going to be an interception, but I wanted Denver to suffer the damned yards for it.
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  • Birdfinger wrote:Mike PereiraVerified account ‏@MikePereira

    Btw, officials were shown many plays regarding illegal contact and defensive holding. How many Seahawk plays???. None.

    https://twitter.com/MikePereira/status/ ... 1208710144


    Knowing Pereira he was probably disappointed. If Mr. Well-Officiated Game was still running the show I have no doubt that the number of defensive penalties in Seahawks games would skyrocket. As it is, I think this will hurt us a bit (especially early in the season) but that we'll adjust and be fine.
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  • http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... boom-rule/

    So that just happened. If anyone is not angry with Florio by now, you dont know who he is, congrats, dont click on the link.

    Oh, wait, this is .net, better ask a benign question. Is Mike Florio elite?
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  • Meeker wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:I'm not worried. The notion that Seattle gets away with holding all the time is bullshit anyway.


    Both Greg Cosell and Cian Fahey said that thought was overblown and the Hawks don't get away with it anymore than any other team and both watch an extensive amount of film, the latter of which focused on DBs.


    Does anybody have the piece where avian Fahey says this is overblown? I found Cosell talking about it here:

    http://sulia.com/channel/san-francisco- ... fe4dd1d26/

    But couldn't find a link to Fahey saying it. I know that Florio is too much of a coward to leave this up at PFT if it was posted in the comments but it would be nice to have a couple of links in my back pocket in case other people starting piping in with this "LOB Rule" nonsense.
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  • Shadowhawk wrote:Knowing Pereira he was probably disappointed. If Mr. Well-Officiated Game was still running the show I have no doubt that the number of defensive penalties in Seahawks games would skyrocket. As it is, I think this will hurt us a bit (especially early in the season) but that we'll adjust and be fine.

    Yet, Pereira just defended us with that Tweet; so what's that tell you?
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  • Read the comments on Pereira's Tweet:

    @MikePereira: Btw, officials were shown many plays regarding illegal contact and defensive holding. How many Seahawk plays???. None.

    @Peeeteeee: @MikePereira They would be there all day if they had.

    @MikePereira: @Peeeteeee >>Excellent response.

    So what's that tell YOU?

    https://twitter.com/mikepereira/status/ ... 1208710144
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  • That he can laugh at something that is funny, that's what that tells me.
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  • Looking at the Canadian Football League this year could point to how the NFL might look. This year has been incredibly ticky tacky flag wise, averaging I think 35 penalties a game. As if they couldn't make the game more boring up here in Canada, just touching a foot of the quarterback while falling down is a roughing the passer.
    Hopefully this doesn't impact our mentality too much. We already were the most penalized team last year and still had great success. I believe we still have the tools to remain the #1 defense, unless the NFL wants to conspire against us again.
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  • Our guys play with solid technique. Crying by other teams fans it's just sour grapes.
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  • Sigh..Training camp and pre-season cannot get here soon enough.
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  • oasis wrote:per Mike Pereira:
    https://twitter.com/MikePereira/status/ ... 0248307712

    I put this on the Hawks forum because like many of you who viewed the Hawks' 2014 schedule, I believe the nfl is conspiring against us this year -- and this is another way to do it. Take clean plays and throw penalties at the most physcial DB's in football.


    This is a misnomer, and was cleared up by many before the SB last year.......including Pete numerous times during the season when asked if his DB's get away with holding.

    He and others with knowledge of the game know better. Our DB's have superior technique, hip positioning and overall scheme to win their battles.

    I don't see this slowing us down at all. In fact, without BB (who was arguably the weakest link DB with the most holding penalties) gone, I expect the LOB to be even nastier than last year.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:That he can laugh at something that is funny, that's what that tells me.


    Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. I took Pereira's Tweet as a lame attempt at snark. It would be like if somebody compiled a list of the biggest temper tantrums by NFL coaches and somebody here remarked: "Btw, there were dozens of clips of coaches going off on the sidelines during games. How many Harbaugh tantrums??? None." That wouldn't be a defense of Harbaugh, it'd be shock that they left out the obvious example. That's how I think Pereira intended his original Tweet and I think his subsequent reply is evidence of that, but I could be wrong.
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  • This statement from the league doesn't concern me bad calls do.
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  • I don't think this will effect us nearly as much as other teams.

    The Niners, while having a great defense, don't have the best secondary, probably not even top 10. Yet whenever we play them, our WRs ALWAYS fail to get separation. Then go back and look at the game tape.

    Rewatch the Carolina and SF playoff game. It was ludicrous the stuff Niners' DBs were getting away with. Ted Ginn Jr's jersey being pulled off of him at least a foot by a trailing db and no call. I think this hurts the Niners a lot more than it does us.....unless you subscribe to the theory that the NFL has it's favorites.
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  • Shadowhawk wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:That he can laugh at something that is funny, that's what that tells me.


    Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. I took Pereira's Tweet as a lame attempt at snark. It would be like if somebody compiled a list of the biggest temper tantrums by NFL coaches and somebody here remarked: "Btw, there were dozens of clips of coaches going off on the sidelines during games. How many Harbaugh tantrums??? None." That wouldn't be a defense of Harbaugh, it'd be shock that they left out the obvious example. That's how I think Pereira intended his original Tweet and I think his subsequent reply is evidence of that, but I could be wrong.

    I didn't take it that way, but I could also be wrong. Who knows? Send him a Tweet asking him, maybe he'll respond.
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  • Forty Niner and Saint fans cry the most. The need an excuse for getting legally beat.

    The Saint fans rationalize that the Seattle defense is not being used as an example because the league doesn't want to blatantly expose their new emphasis as the "LOB rule".

    The Saints board is a river of tears over last season. They got beat twice (one of them a complete ass whuppin, the other a simple drubbing) and they have two excuses. It wasn't played in their dome and the Seattle Defense is holding. This is what losers do. They don't earn home field and they can't accurately interpret the scoreboard.

    The Saints are losers. They will lose in Seattle again.
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  • This affects 3-4 defenses more than 4-3.
    Especially on line stunts.

    Every year, CBs and Safeties re-calibrate what they can get away with.
    Apparently, the league wants to see basketball scores.
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  • TheHawkster wrote:Apparently, the league wants to see basketball scores.

    Did you miss the part about how they're also going to focus on calling OPI more?
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    TheHawkster wrote:Apparently, the league wants to see basketball scores.

    Did you miss the part about how they're also going to focus on calling OPI more?


    Sounds like something they would say to counter all the hate they deserve. I'll believe it when I see it.
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  • Cartire wrote:Sounds like something they would say to counter all the hate they deserve. I'll believe it when I see it.

    I don't disagree with your skepticism. Fortunately for us, it's insanely easy to track: http://www.nflpenalties.com/
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  • So in camp they'll figure out the exact line when a jam turns into defensive holding and become the best at that. Every time they make these BS rule changes, PC finds the exact line and we play to that. End of story. Except with Crabtree. Or Greg Jennings. I'll miss BB just for the beating he gave Jennings in the "Fail Mary" game. Ah.... good times.
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