Problem between Russell and Doug??

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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:01 pm
  • kearly wrote:
    brettb3 wrote:He also didn't answer people who asked if it was about Tate. Doug's an honest guy, but at times he tweets intentionally vague things in order to get a rise out of people. A few months ago he posted a tweet that seemed to imply that NFL players have it tougher than people in the military. People tweeted back at him in outrage, then Doug eventually revealed that he was referring to something completely different. I think things like that are his way of showing that people take what guys in his position say way too seriously. Sort of like what we're doing right now. ;)


    Well, the Baldwin quotes don't fit Tate at all (even the "brand" comment doesn't fit Tate since Baldwin is clearly referring to a person who is creating a brand off the field). The comments fit Wilson in ways that are super-obvious. It doesn't mean he is talking about Wilson, but it was the first person to jump to mind and I struggle think of anyone else who checks half the boxes. If Baldwin's going to be mum on questions about Wilson, it makes sense to be mum about all such questions. But why not deny it if it is not a teammate? Why not at least say it's not Wilson?

    Because it's not his responsibility to clear up the perceptions of fans who think they can read his mind. It's also possible that he's simply messing with people, which he's done in the past. As for Tate, yesterday he was talking about his "brand" in an interview, so that's the possible connection (IMHO I don't think he's talking about either Tate or Wilson).
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:09 pm
  • kearly wrote:
    HansGruber wrote:I'd be inclined to believe this, and also thought the rumors about Tate and Wilson's wife were BS. Until I found out that members of the team were saying it, and saying that it was a legitimate issue during the Superbowl. Whether or not it is true, it is a fact that the locker room thought it was true before they even played in the Superbowl.


    Not trying to be a smartass, I just want to know. Can you prove it's a fact? Did any team members go on the record anywhere other than being referenced anonymously on an internet rumor site?


    Yeah. I heard one of the OL talking about it in person. And he said it was an issue in the locker room during the Superbowl, that it was "ice" between Tate and Wilson. It struck me enough that I started a thread about it here that was shut down.
    Last edited by HansGruber on Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:14 pm
  • brettb3 wrote:
    kearly wrote:
    brettb3 wrote:He also didn't answer people who asked if it was about Tate. Doug's an honest guy, but at times he tweets intentionally vague things in order to get a rise out of people. A few months ago he posted a tweet that seemed to imply that NFL players have it tougher than people in the military. People tweeted back at him in outrage, then Doug eventually revealed that he was referring to something completely different. I think things like that are his way of showing that people take what guys in his position say way too seriously. Sort of like what we're doing right now. ;)


    Well, the Baldwin quotes don't fit Tate at all (even the "brand" comment doesn't fit Tate since Baldwin is clearly referring to a person who is creating a brand off the field). The comments fit Wilson in ways that are super-obvious. It doesn't mean he is talking about Wilson, but it was the first person to jump to mind and I struggle think of anyone else who checks half the boxes. If Baldwin's going to be mum on questions about Wilson, it makes sense to be mum about all such questions. But why not deny it if it is not a teammate? Why not at least say it's not Wilson?

    Because it's not his responsibility to clear up the perceptions of fans who think they can read his mind. It's also possible that he's simply messing with people, which he's done in the past. As for Tate, yesterday he was talking about his "brand" in an interview, so that's the possible connection (IMHO I don't think he's talking about either Tate or Wilson).


    Lets not forget ADB invited this. He chose to voice his thoughts on twitter. Twitter isnt a private affair. If hes posting on twitter, hes inviting criticism. No, we cant read his mind. But if you are voicing your mind to all to hear, you might want to make sure they are the same page as you.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:16 pm
  • brettb3 wrote:Because it's not his responsibility to clear up the perceptions of fans who think they can read his mind. It's also possible that he's simply messing with people, which he's done in the past. As for Tate, yesterday he was talking about his "brand" in an interview, so that's the possible connection (IMHO I don't think he's talking about either Tate or Wilson).


    Tate was talking about his on the field brand, i.e. more catches, more yards, more pro-bowls. Baldwin was making reference to someone building an off the field brand with community outreach. Further, Tate's personally is about as anti-robotic as it gets. I am 99.99999% sure he's not talking about Tate.

    Baldwin doesn't have any obligation, but given the obvious Wilson connections of his statements I think it would be wise to issue a denial. Even if he's not talking about Wilson, a glance at Wilson's twitter today makes you wonder if Wilson thinks he is.
    Last edited by kearly on Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:21 pm
  • Cuz wilson is actually the type to respond to a shot...

    I hate my fellow Seahawk fans today, y'all give me indigestion.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:21 pm
  • HansGruber wrote:Yeah. I heard one of the OL talking about it in person. And he said it was an issue in the locker room during the Superbowl, that it was "ice" between Tate and Wilson. It struck me enough that I started a thread about it here that was shut down.


    Thanks for clarifying. I trust your word, you don't seem like the kind of guy that would make shit up for no reason.

    If it is possible to say without giving away too much, how was it that you were able to be in a conversation with a Seahawks player?
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:23 pm
  • Throwdown wrote:Cuz wilson is actually the type to respond to a shot...

    I hate my fellow Seahawk fans today, y'all give me indigestion.


    How would you explain those tweets then? I'm just looking for an explanation of all this evidence that fits together and makes sense... and everything so far seems to be consistently pointing in a certain direction.

    In terms of timeline, Baldwin made his four tweets all at the same time. They were posted between 8 and 9 PM.

    Wilson's "rise above" tweet came three hours later. The two cryptic biblical tweets Wilson followed with came the next morning, 3 minutes apart.

    And for the record, I don't think Wilson was taking a shot in any way. He was simply expressing a religious view of forgiveness and transcending strife.
    Last edited by kearly on Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:36 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:26 pm
  • kearly wrote:
    Throwdown wrote:Cuz wilson is actually the type to respond to a shot...

    I hate my fellow Seahawk fans today, y'all give me indigestion.


    How would you explain those tweets then? I'm just looking for an explanation of all this evidence that fits together and makes sense... and everything so far seems to be pointing in a certain direction.


    It was also in the news today that a former lawyer for the catholic church blew the whistle on the church sweeping crimes against children by the clergy under the rug.

    But no. That wouldn't fit.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:28 pm
  • Or it could be a shot at Sherm or Tate or generally anyone he perceives as fake.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:28 pm
  • kearly wrote:
    Throwdown wrote:Cuz wilson is actually the type to respond to a shot...

    I hate my fellow Seahawk fans today, y'all give me indigestion.


    How would you explain those tweets then? I'm just looking for an explanation of all this evidence that fits together and makes sense... and everything so far seems to be consistently pointing in a certain direction.


    Maybe a rough day in divorce court
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:30 pm
  • kearly wrote:
    HansGruber wrote:Yeah. I heard one of the OL talking about it in person. And he said it was an issue in the locker room during the Superbowl, that it was "ice" between Tate and Wilson. It struck me enough that I started a thread about it here that was shut down.


    Thanks for clarifying. I trust your word, you don't seem like the kind of guy that would make shit up for no reason.

    If it is possible to say without giving away too much, how was it that you were able to be in a conversation with a Seahawks player?


    I wasn't in a conversation with him. He was sitting in the bar in Joey's in Bellevue talking to friends, a large group of people. Joey's is setup with all these tables really close to each other, so you can generally hear the people around you. They were being loud and boisterous and he was talking about it to someone else. A group of us heard it, including the bartender. I expressed my disbelief to the bartender and he said, "You know, it's weird, I've heard it from a couple of the players recently."

    Whether or not Tate actually did that - there was a rumor in the locker room.

    And it suddenly made sense to me why the team would let him walk. Previously, I couldn't figure out why they didn't offer Tate at least $4m/yr. That's really not that much, definitely not enough to stop them from signing Wilson long term. Clayton stated before the season that Tate's contract would be $6m/yr and people inside the organization had planned to sign him. So I was mostly interested in that aspect of it, that maybe the Seahawks had let him walk because they simply didn't want rumors messing up the locker room chemistry, whether true or not.
    Last edited by HansGruber on Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:30 pm
  • Brahn wrote:
    had2bhawk wrote::177692: :34853_doh: :141847_bnono: Why would DB say anything bad about Wilson? He really needs to clear this up and take care of any negative implications on the man who can/will make him a top receiver in NFL.


    If there is anything to clear up it will be done behind closed doors. He needs to clarify nothing to the fans imo.


    Bullshit, :141847_bnono: if he's twittering where the fans are reading it, he should have the gonads to set the record straight.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:32 pm
  • SacHawk2.0 wrote:Or it could be a shot at Sherm or Tate or generally anyone he perceives as fake.

    I don't think Baldwin would use "humility" when talking about Sherman, though. :)
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:39 pm
  • Throwdown wrote:
    kearly wrote:Maybe a rough day in divorce court


    That would be quite the coincidence.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:40 pm
  • kearly wrote:
    Throwdown wrote:Cuz wilson is actually the type to respond to a shot...

    I hate my fellow Seahawk fans today, y'all give me indigestion.


    How would you explain those tweets then? I'm just looking for an explanation of all this evidence that fits together and makes sense... and everything so far seems to be consistently pointing in a certain direction.

    In terms of timeline, Baldwin made his four tweets all at the same time. They were posted between 8 and 9 PM.

    Wilson's "rise above" tweet came three hours later. The two cryptic biblical tweets Wilson followed with came the next morning, 3 minutes apart.

    And for the record, I don't think Wilson was taking a shot in any way. He was simply expressing a religious view of forgiveness and transcending strife.


    Well did you read the interview with Tate? HE kind of through Rw under the bus and said Stafford is better, that could be what Rw is walking about, a supposedly good friend of his just made it clear a guy he has yet to play a real gam with is better than the guy that put you on the map
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:42 pm
  • kearly wrote:
    HansGruber wrote:Yeah. I heard one of the OL talking about it in person. And he said it was an issue in the locker room during the Superbowl, that it was "ice" between Tate and Wilson. It struck me enough that I started a thread about it here that was shut down.


    Thanks for clarifying. I trust your word, you don't seem like the kind of guy that would make shit up for no reason.

    If it is possible to say without giving away too much, how was it that you were able to be in a conversation with a Seahawks player?


    Also, you're a numbers guy, and you seem really tuned into the business of football, the Seahawks from a business standpoint.

    Why would they sign Baldwin to an extension worth over $4m/yr but offer Tate less? I mean, yeah, Baldwin was a baller and came up big at times, but I don't think he was THAT much better than Tate that you let Tate walk and extend Baldwin.

    Further, they've openly talked to some other free agents at WR this offseason. They drafted a couple of young guys as well. So it's not like they're all set at WR and had to cut someone.

    I honestly don't really understand the decision to let Tate walk like that. He would have taken $5m/yr which wouldn't have been a problem at all. The only thing that made sense about it to me was that he disappeared in the Arizona game and it was obvious we need more size and speed at WR. But still... you extend Baldwin? He's like a Tate clone, but not quite as good as Tate (I'd put him just slightly below Tate due to Tate's ability as a kick and punt returner).

    The whole Tate thing just doesn't make sense. We have a real hole in punt and kick returns. And Tate wasn't asking so much that he'd have crippled the team. He stayed healthy and produced when it counted. Something doesn't add up. I'm not saying the rumors are true, but something is definitely off. It doesn't make sense that the Seahawks would throw a lowball offer out there and just stop talking to his agent, which is exactly what they did.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:43 pm
  • HansGruber wrote:
    kearly wrote:
    HansGruber wrote:Yeah. I heard one of the OL talking about it in person. And he said it was an issue in the locker room during the Superbowl, that it was "ice" between Tate and Wilson. It struck me enough that I started a thread about it here that was shut down.


    Thanks for clarifying. I trust your word, you don't seem like the kind of guy that would make shit up for no reason.

    If it is possible to say without giving away too much, how was it that you were able to be in a conversation with a Seahawks player?


    I wasn't in a conversation with him. He was sitting in the bar in Joey's in Bellevue talking to friends, a large group of people. Joey's is setup with all these tables really close to each other, so you can generally hear the people around you. They were being loud and boisterous and he was talking about it to someone else. A group of us heard it, including the bartender. I expressed my disbelief to the bartender and he said, "You know, it's weird, I've heard it from a couple of the players recently."

    Whether or not Tate actually did that - there was a rumor in the locker room.

    And it suddenly made sense to me why the team would let him walk. Previously, I couldn't figure out why they didn't offer Tate at least $4m/yr. That's really not that much, definitely not enough to stop them from signing Wilson long term. Clayton stated before the season that Tate's contract would be $6m/yr and people inside the organization had planned to sign him. So I was mostly interested in that aspect of it, that maybe the Seahawks had let him walk because they simply didn't want rumors messing up the locker room chemistry, whether true or not.


    Interesting, thanks for sharing.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:44 pm
  • I think Doug loves to make people think on their own. This is what he twitted back to me today.


    Tab420

    @DougBaldwinJr This is the problem with social media. Everyone thinks they know what people are talking about.

    4:27 PM - 16 Jul 2014

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    @Tab420 yep. Everyone has the answers. I like to leave em with more questions. Lol.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:44 pm
  • Hawknballs wrote:
    BigMeach wrote:

    I'm not saying it isn't RW, but it could literally be anyone. So let's not say it's RW till Doug says it is.


    It could also be no one in particular and doug is just venting on his perception of the whole thing in general, too.

    General who? :shock:
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:46 pm
  • Anthony! wrote:Well did you read the interview with Tate? HE kind of through Rw under the bus and said Stafford is better, that could be what Rw is walking about, a supposedly good friend of his just made it clear a guy he has yet to play a real gam with is better than the guy that put you on the map


    That's a decent point, in that the timelines match somewhat. But would Wilson show so much hurt over the petty observation on TV that Stafford has just a little more zip on his passes? (Which, in all honesty, is probably an accurate statement). It wasn't like Tate attacked Wilson in that interview.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:47 pm
  • TAB420 wrote:I think Doug loves to make people think on their own. This is what he twitted back to me today.


    Tab420

    @DougBaldwinJr This is the problem with social media. Everyone thinks they know what people are talking about.

    4:27 PM - 16 Jul 2014

    ‏DougBaldwinJr

    @Tab420 yep. Everyone has the answers. I like to leave em with more questions. Lol.



    THANK YOUUU

    That just confirmed my thoughts to me, it was just Baldwin rant with no target in mind, and the 12's think Wilson is a phoney.

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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:53 pm
  • What does it mean to be a phony?

    I don't know anyone in any position of real authority or in any "real" job that isn't a "phony" by those standards. That's part of being a mature, adult professional.

    It's one thing if Russell wasn't consistent in his message, if he lacked integrity. Then yeah, that'd be phony. But I don't see that in Russell Wilson at all. The kid has shown up at Children's Hospital for a few hours every Tuesday for the last two years. He was doing it before it even got any press. He has been totally consistent in his message, both the Christianity stuff and his "rah rah" positive stuff. That isn't phony at all. It's admirable, and totally the role model I want for my children.
    Last edited by HansGruber on Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:54 pm
  • kearly wrote:
    Throwdown wrote:Cuz wilson is actually the type to respond to a shot...

    I hate my fellow Seahawk fans today, y'all give me indigestion.


    How would you explain those tweets then? I'm just looking for an explanation of all this evidence that fits together and makes sense... and everything so far seems to be consistently pointing in a certain direction.

    In terms of timeline, Baldwin made his four tweets all at the same time. They were posted between 8 and 9 PM.

    Wilson's "rise above" tweet came three hours later. The two cryptic biblical tweets Wilson followed with came the next morning, 3 minutes apart.

    And for the record, I don't think Wilson was taking a shot in any way. He was simply expressing a religious view of forgiveness and transcending strife.

    Russell's tweets could have been about anything. Or nothing at all.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:54 pm
  • Hey i'm not the one that automatically thought Russell Wilson when the rant happened, I dind't think anything of it.

    Ask the 12's that thought it was about Wilson, broham
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:55 pm
  • HansGruber wrote:Also, you're a numbers guy, and you seem really tuned into the business of football, the Seahawks from a business standpoint.

    Why would they sign Baldwin to an extension worth over $4m/yr but offer Tate less? I mean, yeah, Baldwin was a baller and came up big at times, but I don't think he was THAT much better than Tate that you let Tate walk and extend Baldwin.

    Further, they've openly talked to some other free agents at WR this offseason. They drafted a couple of young guys as well. So it's not like they're all set at WR and had to cut someone.

    I honestly don't really understand the decision to let Tate walk like that. He would have taken $5m/yr which wouldn't have been a problem at all. The only thing that made sense about it to me was that he disappeared in the Arizona game and it was obvious we need more size and speed at WR. But still... you extend Baldwin? He's like a Tate clone, but not quite as good as Tate (I'd put him just slightly below Tate due to Tate's ability as a kick and punt returner).

    The whole Tate thing just doesn't make sense. We have a real hole in punt and kick returns. And Tate wasn't asking so much that he'd have crippled the team. He stayed healthy and produced when it counted. Something doesn't add up. I'm not saying the rumors are true, but something is definitely off. It doesn't make sense that the Seahawks would throw a lowball offer out there and just stop talking to his agent, which is exactly what they did.


    I think Tate kind of played his cards slightly wrong in FA, at least based on hearsay. And Baldwin brilliantly used his RFA tag to leverage a new contract. So that's part of it.

    But yeah, I think in terms of cap value Tate comes in well ahead of Baldwin. Better receiving production, rarer skillset, huge special teams contribution, but most importantly, the guy never gets hurt. Durability history alone would make Tate significantly more valuable.

    Whether other things factored, I can't comment on that, but like you I thought the fact that they allegedly only offered $4 million per year for Tate but then turn around and extend Baldwin for $5.5 million per in the two added years they gave him was a bit puzzling. Baldwin is an iconic Seahawk, and he was money in the playoffs, but I think JS is smarter than to pay a guy for what he did or didn't do in a 3 game sample versus the entire body of work.
    Last edited by kearly on Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:56 pm
  • Exactly. I posted back to him stated that he loved to stir the pot and he replied.

    haha stir the pot?! Never! I just want to get people to THINK. Seems as though people have forgotten how to do so at times.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:05 pm
  • Throwdown wrote:
    TAB420 wrote:I think Doug loves to make people think on their own. This is what he twitted back to me today.


    Tab420

    @DougBaldwinJr This is the problem with social media. Everyone thinks they know what people are talking about.

    4:27 PM - 16 Jul 2014

    ‏DougBaldwinJr

    @Tab420 yep. Everyone has the answers. I like to leave em with more questions. Lol.



    THANK YOUUU

    That just confirmed my thoughts to me, it was just Baldwin rant with no target in mind, and the 12's think Wilson is a phoney.

    SALUTE!


    Honestly though, what would you expect him to say? Kind of seems like ass-covering to me.

    I am open minded to the possibility of coincidence. But if I made a series of tweets that very strongly alluded to negative things about my boss or spouse, etc, I would probably want to clear that up after I read it over. Especially if people asked me about it. Even if he is not talking about Wilson, it seems plausible to me that Wilson thinks he is, judging by the obvious responsive nature and timing of his twitter page.

    FWIW, I do not think Wilson is fake in any way. But does he kind of look it sometimes? Definitely. Honestly I struggle to think of who fits all his commentary even half as well as Wilson. Is it fair commentary? No. But it fits a lot of things people said or feared about Wilson in the past. Unfairly. Wilson is a 100% legit caring person, his time at Children's hospitals and passing academies (which he started in HS) prove as much. But does he have kind of a fake smile? Kinda. Does he have a bit of a fake laugh. Kinda. Is he a bit corporate? Kinda. I'm 100% fine with it, but I could see how someone from the "keep it real" crowd could be annoyed by those traits. I think that's where the alleged angst may have sprung from.

    I guess what I can't understand is why the vicious tone of the tweets by Baldwin? It definitely sounds like he's doing more than expressing who he is. He's expressing who he's NOT. Big difference. The last tweet was practically venom coated.
    Last edited by kearly on Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:12 pm
  • kearly wrote:
    Throwdown wrote:
    TAB420 wrote:I think Doug loves to make people think on their own. This is what he twitted back to me today.


    Tab420

    @DougBaldwinJr This is the problem with social media. Everyone thinks they know what people are talking about.

    4:27 PM - 16 Jul 2014

    ‏DougBaldwinJr

    @Tab420 yep. Everyone has the answers. I like to leave em with more questions. Lol.



    THANK YOUUU

    That just confirmed my thoughts to me, it was just Baldwin rant with no target in mind, and the 12's think Wilson is a phoney.

    SALUTE!


    Honestly though, what would you expect him to say? Kind of seems like ass-covering to me.

    I am open minded to the possibility of coincidence. But if I made a series of tweets that very strongly alluded to negative things about my boss or spouse, etc, I would probably want to clear that up after I read it over. Especially if people asked me about it. Even if he is not talking about Wilson, it seems plausible to me that Wilson thinks he is.

    FWIW, I do not think Wilson is fake in any way. But does he kind of look it sometimes? Definitely. Honestly I struggle to think of who fits all his commentary even half as well as Wilson. Is it fair commentary? No. But it fits a lot of things people said or feared about Wilson in the past. Unfairly.

    I guess what I can't understand is why the vicious tone of the tweets by Baldwin? It definitely sounds like he's doing more than expressing who he is. He's expressing who he's NOT. Big difference. The last tweet was practically venom coated.
    Out of all the athletes that Doug Baldwin has interacted with in his career, I'll bet a good number of them fits his commentary.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:16 pm
  • kearly wrote:I think Tate kind of played his cards slightly wrong in FA, at least based on hearsay. And Baldwin brilliantly used his RFA tag to leverage a new contract. So that's part of it.

    But yeah, I think in terms of cap value Tate comes in well ahead of Baldwin. Better receiving production, rarer skillset, huge special teams contribution, but most importantly, the guy never gets hurt. Durability history alone would make Tate significantly more valuable.

    Whether other things factored, I can't comment on that, but like you I thought the fact that they allegedly only offered $4 million per year for Tate but then turn around and extend Baldwin for $5.5 million per in the two added years they gave him was a bit puzzling. Baldwin is an iconic Seahawk, and he was money in the playoffs, but I think JS is smarter than to pay a guy for what he did or didn't do in a 3 game sample versus the entire body of work.


    Yeah, but no matter how Tate played his cards, the Seahawks made one offer - a very lowball offer, lower than they offered Baldwin - and that was it. No further discussion. This at least according to Tate, and I don't see why he'd lie about it. To do so would seriously harm any future negotiations with other teams. And the Seahawks would surely clarify that situation so that the rookies wouldn't think they're going to get screwed after playing hard for the team.

    As an employer, I handle employment negotiations regularly. If I have an employee that I like, and they ask for an absurd raise, I'm going to see that as a conversation. I'm going to negotiate and find a reasonable middle ground. I want my employees to be happy and productive, and that's how you do that. The Seahawks have proven to share this philosophy and have openly stated so in the media many times.

    The only negotiation that starts and ends with the same offer is one in which one party has already decided they're not interested. The Seahawks entered that negotiation as the "not interested" party.

    I think there's a lot more to it than anyone has let on. Like you said, Tate was really valuable to us. More so than Baldwin. SOMETHING made the Seahawks decide permanently that they weren't interested. Very few things would do that, but I'll bet locker room chemistry would be a big one on that list. Also, have you noticed that Wilson hasn't responded AT ALL to Tate's claim that they're still friends? The lineman that was talking about it, Giacomini, said there was ice between them during the Superbowl, and I also noticed you won't find any photos of them hanging out. They were acting like they didn't know each other. Something happened and I honestly believe it was a factor in letting Tate walk.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:20 pm
  • I thought he was talking about Lebron. Don't be so mean, Doug. The letter to Cleveland was real!
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:22 pm
  • brettb3 wrote:Out of all the athletes that Doug Baldwin has interacted with in his career, I'll bet a good number of them fits his commentary.


    That's fair, I don't disagree. A good number of "face of the franchise" players satisfy most of Baldwin's overly cynical viewpoints.

    That said, it does seem like everything Baldwin says points at Wilson (most of it unfairly). The robot comment stood out especially, since not many NFL players are called robots and Wilson has been dubbed a robot in the locker room almost since day one.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:29 pm
  • I said this in the thread about it months ago, but watch the part of the Super Bowl XLVIII Blu-ray where Russell tries to tell Golden to try and work on just getting the first down before doing crazy YAC moves. It's hella awkward.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:32 pm
  • kearly wrote:
    Anthony! wrote:Well did you read the interview with Tate? HE kind of through Rw under the bus and said Stafford is better, that could be what Rw is walking about, a supposedly good friend of his just made it clear a guy he has yet to play a real gam with is better than the guy that put you on the map


    That's a decent point, in that the timelines match somewhat. But would Wilson show so much hurt over the petty observation on TV that Stafford has just a little more zip on his passes? (Which, in all honesty, is probably an accurate statement). It wasn't like Tate attacked Wilson in that interview.



    HE also said that Stafford places the ball in tight windows and does not put his WR in harms way and that was all around hit mentioning of Rw, When I read it I read it as him saying what Stafford does that Rw does not.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:33 pm
  • Great convo Hans, awesome stuff. I'll try and keep an open and skeptical mind on the issue, but it should be fun to observe Tate and Wilson going forward, or perhaps the next time I put on XLVIII.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:36 pm
  • Anthony! wrote:HE also said that Stafford places the ball in tight windows and does not put his WR in harms way and that was all around hit mentioning of Rw, When I read it I read it as him saying what Stafford does that Rw does not.


    I saw the interview, I thought it was pretty good actually. I thought Tate's Stafford/Wilson comments were a bit weird, but I didn't hear anything from them that would get a reasonable person upset, unless Wilson's massively insecure or something, which I really doubt.

    It's totally possible that there are sour grapes between Tate and Wilson, but I don't think that sufficiently explains the immediate reactionary nature of the tweets or their timing to Baldwin's commentary.
    Last edited by kearly on Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:36 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:I said this in the thread about it months ago, but watch the part of the Super Bowl XLVIII Blu-ray where Russell tries to tell Golden to try and work on just getting the first down before doing crazy YAC moves. It's hella awkward.


    And honestly, what's more awkward than Tate addressing the rumors if they're not true? That'd just be freaking bizarre. Totally awkward. Further, his method of debunking the rumor was to say "Wilson and I are still close friends, we talk to each other all the time." Something like that.

    But nothing from Wilson. Nothing. Not even a twitter acknowledgement. No fist bump, no shout out, no "That's my bro" tweet, nothing. Just "icy" quiet.

    I don't know about other people here, but I acknowledge my friends when they shout out like that. Heck, even Roland, who I've argued with a million times here, if he was to shout out on another forum, I'd acknowledge it. We're on the same team, we got no beef.

    There's only one reason to stay quiet and that's to avoid lying.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:39 pm
  • HansGruber wrote:There's only one reason to stay quiet and that's to avoid lying.

    Yep. It's exactly how you'd expect a nice, kindly religious guy to respond to this. (That sounds kind of smartassy or denigrating to Wilson, but I don't mean it that way at all.)
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:52 pm
  • Throwdown wrote:Cuz wilson is actually the type to respond to a shot...

    I hate my fellow Seahawk fans today, y'all give me indigestion.


    thread bugs me too.



    so does typing y'all
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:57 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    HansGruber wrote:There's only one reason to stay quiet and that's to avoid lying.

    Yep. It's exactly how you'd expect a nice, kindly religious guy to respond to this. (That sounds kind of smartassy or denigrating to Wilson, but I don't mean it that way at all.)


    Nope, doesn't sound denigrating at all. Wilson has strong religious beliefs, which include personal integrity and honesty. There is only one way to maintain integrity in that situation, and that's to keep the mouth shut and say nothing at all.

    Further, it was weird to me that Tate posted a picture of his wife hanging out with Ashton, as a direct Twitter response to the cheating rumor. Seriously, Tate? When I was young, and one of my friends broke up with a girl, she's about the last person in the world that I want to be seen hanging out with. I mean, talk about awkward. Why would you even post her picture in a public response to a rumor you think is absurd? That's what - #4 on the bro code of things you never do? Hanging out with exes? Ugh. Even if your girls are friends, you don't put photos of your bro's ex online or in his face. Great way to end a friendship.

    And why would she even agree to a photo of herself with Tate's wife being used to respond to rumors of her cheating on Russell? Why would she care what random idiots on the internet think? She's still trying to convince someone.

    Generally, a woman trying to convince you they didn't cheat after a breakup is a really bad sign. I've had a lot of breakups. Made the mistake once of questioning a faithful woman's fidelity during the breakup (I was young and insecure), and I honestly thought I was about to be murdered. In a restaurant in front of dozens of people. She didn't try to convince me of anything, she tried to put her steak knife into my chest. This is not a topic you bring up with recently broken-up faithful women. Unless you really hate your man parts and have always dreamed of being a soprano.

    With all the major signs pointing to the obvious, I'm just surprised people still argue it and act all indignant about the rumor. It sure seems like a pretty solid rumor. And I'm the last person on earth to care about celebrity gossip.
    Last edited by HansGruber on Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:14 pm
  • SacHawk2.0 wrote:Or it could be a shot at Sherm or Tate or generally anyone he perceives as fake.

    It COULD be, but it's not. It's directed straight at Russell Wilson. I have but one word for you denialists:

    Robotic.


    It's always been the word to describe RW. No one else. Just RW.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:18 pm
  • My man Throwdown is confused. FANS don't think Wilson is any of those things. Fans just hear criticisms that other people make about our QB coming from Baldwin and connect the dots.

    As for Baldwin's responses to TAB, all I have to say is that Baldwin is smart, but not nearly as smart as he thinks he is. People can think without his cryptic tweets.

    Sgt. Largent has him pegged; he's addicted to drama on the internet. Pretty pathetic, to be honest. Dude is about one step away from opening up a LiveJournal, letting us know his mood is "Pensive" and he's listening to Toni Braxton's "Unbreak My Heart" as he writes about all the "fake robots" that he won't be like.

    Doesn't this dude have a woman or a dog or something to keep him occupied?
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:19 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:I said this in the thread about it months ago, but watch the part of the Super Bowl XLVIII Blu-ray where Russell tries to tell Golden to try and work on just getting the first down before doing crazy YAC moves. It's hella awkward.



    I saw a pic at the White House and Tate looked pissed and out of place. Just saying.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:25 pm
  • If there was a time for RW to ignore the noise now is the time. I didn't think it was possible to appreciate him more but man I love my robot qb. Can't wait for him to suddenly turn a dark side and unleash the wrath of Apocalypse on his enemies.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:32 pm
  • Too much drama

    I think you guys love drama
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:44 pm
  • Doug wasnt at the ESPYs. Thats clearly a sign.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:53 pm
  • I think ADB is just being ADB... he would probably complain about the number of chocolate chips in his cookie. He is a pot stirring kind of dude.

    I expect to see ADB getting some balls and making toe tappers for 3rd down conversions and being that open guy when RW is on the run. Until I see some sort of dropoff on the field there is nothing for me to see.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:59 pm
  • HansGruber wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:
    HansGruber wrote:There's only one reason to stay quiet and that's to avoid lying.

    Yep. It's exactly how you'd expect a nice, kindly religious guy to respond to this. (That sounds kind of smartassy or denigrating to Wilson, but I don't mean it that way at all.)


    Nope, doesn't sound denigrating at all. Wilson has strong religious beliefs, which include personal integrity and honesty. There is only one way to maintain integrity in that situation, and that's to keep the mouth shut and say nothing at all.

    Further, it was weird to me that Tate posted a picture of his wife hanging out with Ashton, as a direct Twitter response to the cheating rumor. Seriously, Tate? When I was young, and one of my friends broke up with a girl, she's about the last person in the world that I want to be seen hanging out with. I mean, talk about awkward. Why would you even post her picture in a public response to a rumor you think is absurd? That's what - #4 on the bro code of things you never do? Hanging out with exes? Ugh. Even if your girls are friends, you don't put photos of your bro's ex online or in his face. Great way to end a friendship.

    And why would she even agree to a photo of herself with Tate's wife being used to respond to rumors of her cheating on Russell? Why would she care what random idiots on the internet think? She's still trying to convince someone.

    Generally, a woman trying to convince you they didn't cheat after a breakup is a really bad sign. I've had a lot of breakups. Made the mistake once of questioning a faithful woman's fidelity during the breakup (I was young and insecure), and I honestly thought I was about to be murdered. In a restaurant in front of dozens of people. She didn't try to convince me of anything, she tried to put her steak knife into my chest. This is not a topic you bring up with recently broken-up faithful women. Unless you really hate your man parts and have always dreamed of being a soprano.

    With all the major signs pointing to the obvious, I'm just surprised people still argue it and act all indignant about the rumor. It sure seems like a pretty solid rumor. And I'm the last person on earth to care about celebrity gossip.


    Completely agree. I share Wilson's religious beliefs (for the most part) and if I was in the same situation, I would react the same way: Not speak ill of the guy publicly (and do the best to vent in a Christlike way privately), but I sure as heck ain't taking his back under false pretenses. Not to mention, if they were getting divorced, and there was no infidelity, I think Russ would be classy enough to squash those rumors from the get go. That combined with the WAY low-ball offer to Tate from the FO to me SCREAMS that the rumors about Tate and Ashton are true, and they knew that there was no way that they could keep Tate and RW on the same team.

    As far as Doug is concerned, I don't know why he would take a shot at RW (IF that was his intent, and I don't think it necessarily was...but who knows...ball players ARE co-workers, and we all have co-workers that annoy us i'm sure.)
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:07 pm
  • Throwdown wrote:Cuz wilson is actually the type to respond to a shot...

    I hate my fellow Seahawk fans today, y'all give me indigestion.



    This ^^^^^^^^

    Got nothing else to say, it'd just be a string of foul words in any case.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:13 pm
  • I'm not sure DB's tweets were directed at RW, but RW does come across robotic and cliche in almost everything he says. If you think otherwise I'm not sure you've been paying attention the last few years. I love me some RW regardless though, great player and I hope he's with us for his entire career.
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Re: Problem between Russell and Doug??
Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:23 pm
  • kearly wrote:
    HansGruber wrote:Also, you're a numbers guy, and you seem really tuned into the business of football, the Seahawks from a business standpoint.

    Why would they sign Baldwin to an extension worth over $4m/yr but offer Tate less? I mean, yeah, Baldwin was a baller and came up big at times, but I don't think he was THAT much better than Tate that you let Tate walk and extend Baldwin.

    Further, they've openly talked to some other free agents at WR this offseason. They drafted a couple of young guys as well. So it's not like they're all set at WR and had to cut someone.

    I honestly don't really understand the decision to let Tate walk like that. He would have taken $5m/yr which wouldn't have been a problem at all. The only thing that made sense about it to me was that he disappeared in the Arizona game and it was obvious we need more size and speed at WR. But still... you extend Baldwin? He's like a Tate clone, but not quite as good as Tate (I'd put him just slightly below Tate due to Tate's ability as a kick and punt returner).

    The whole Tate thing just doesn't make sense. We have a real hole in punt and kick returns. And Tate wasn't asking so much that he'd have crippled the team. He stayed healthy and produced when it counted. Something doesn't add up. I'm not saying the rumors are true, but something is definitely off. It doesn't make sense that the Seahawks would throw a lowball offer out there and just stop talking to his agent, which is exactly what they did.


    I think Tate kind of played his cards slightly wrong in FA, at least based on hearsay. And Baldwin brilliantly used his RFA tag to leverage a new contract. So that's part of it.

    But yeah, I think in terms of cap value Tate comes in well ahead of Baldwin. Better receiving production, rarer skillset, huge special teams contribution, but most importantly, the guy never gets hurt. Durability history alone would make Tate significantly more valuable.

    Whether other things factored, I can't comment on that, but like you I thought the fact that they allegedly only offered $4 million per year for Tate but then turn around and extend Baldwin for $5.5 million per in the two added years they gave him was a bit puzzling. Baldwin is an iconic Seahawk, and he was money in the playoffs, but I think JS is smarter than to pay a guy for what he did or didn't do in a 3 game sample versus the entire body of work.

    Baldwin has given 110% from the moment he was signed. Tate--despite his comments about giving everything to the team--didn't work as hard early on. It's possible Pete just likes Doug's competitive fire and work ethic more than Golden's.

    It's also possible that had nothing to do with it.
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