RiverDog wrote:Vernon Davis, Justin Smith, Patrick Willis, and Frank Gore all played well enough to make the Pro Bowl in years before Harbaugh's arrival. Plus he already had guys like Staley and Crabtree on the roster. That's a pretty darn good core from which to start with. IMO it's a lot tougher to start over from scratch like Pete did than get a roster of underperformers over the hump.
I give Harbaugh a ton of credit, too, and perhaps he should be rated higher than Pete. But not # 3 when he doesn't have a Lombardi.
I know pro-bowls are kind of a dumb way of measuring excellence and that winning teams get more pro-bowlers, but the 49ers have had 8, 9, and 8 pro-bowlers in Harbaugh's three seasons. A lot of those guys made their first pro-bowls under Harbaugh. From 2003 to 2010 the 49ers were mostly crappy and averaged roughly 2 pro-bowlers per season.
He definitely inherited a roster with some talent on it, but at the same time I think it's pretty obvious he's one of the best coaches in the league at maximizing his existing roster.
dopeboy206 wrote:Just for fun...Where would Mike Holmgren rank on your lists of todays coaches. Lol
Right next to John Fox.
This made sense until I thought about it for two seconds. Holmgren (along with Ron Wolfe) turned a bad Packers team into a team that has won almost non-stop since they traded for Brett Favre. The Packers 96'-97' seasons were the only back to back seasons in the last 20 years with better DVOA than the two Seattle just posted. He also put together one of the best assistant coaching staffs of all time.
In Seattle, Holmgren inherited a team that had gone almost a decade without a winning season and built a Super Bowl team from scratch.
He totaled three Super Bowls, winning one.
In the case of Fox, his tenure at Carolina was marked by inconsistency. 7-9, 11-5, 7-9, 11-5, 8-8, 7-9, 12-4, 8-8, 2-14. Never had two winning seasons back to back. (Kind of reminds me of Jeff Fisher at Tennessee). Part of that is Delhomme being an erratic QB, part of that is the NFC South being an erratic division, and part of that is on Fox.
I give Fox no credit for anything in Denver. It's Manning's and Elway's team. Fox's involvement there is about as deep as a manager in baseball.
Fox has been to a Super Bowl, and carried to another. The latter of which was one of the more pathetic coaching performances I've ever seen in a Super Bowl.
Of course, I'm guessing you didn't really mean to compare the coaches, only to say that Holmgren probably would rank in the #7-#9 range. Which is close enough I guess, though I'd personally put him above McCarthy and probably in the same area as Coughlin.
Still, there was no way I could pass on the chance to rip on John Fox. I should probably cut the guy a break, now that both XLVIII and the 2005 NFCCG came his expense.
Regarding Payton, I agree with you 100%.