Bruce Irvin time table for training camp not set.

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  • Apparently he's doing fine rehabbing the hip but they don't know if of when he will be available for training camp. Looks like another road block in his development he needs this training camp. Bruce was the 15th pick in the draft wasn't he.
    They have been great in the later rounds but they need to be better with there first pick then they have been since O'kung/Thomas . Pete said he's up against it and will have to work his butt off to make it back.
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  • Irvin had a promising rookie and sophomore season and may miss some TC time and your criticizing the pick?
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  • Meeker wrote:Irvin had a promising rookie and sophomore season and may miss some TC time and your criticizing the pick?


    He had a promising rookie season but that's it in fact they changed his position and he can't even elevate himself over Malcolm Smith my question to you is was he worth the 15th pick .
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  • Yes he was.
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  • Throwdown wrote:Yes he was.


    I disagree .
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  • General Manager wrote:
    Throwdown wrote:Yes he was.


    I disagree .


    Good, then I'm very glad you're not our GM
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  • City Of Reign wrote:
    General Manager wrote:
    Throwdown wrote:Yes he was.


    I disagree .


    Good, then I'm very glad you're not our GM



    I would say that about every member of this board . Thanks for the off topic comment.
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  • I agree if he can return to the player he was his rookie year he's worth the 15th pick . We'll see how he does right now the jury is still very much out. At least for the more objective NFL fan.
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  • He wasn't worth the 15th pick, and I was one of his biggest fans. But... so what? He's now a slightly above average OLB who might still improve, and his draft pick expenditure is a sunk cost. It would be nice if PC/JS didn't get so cute in the early rounds, but Irvin is not a disaster by any means.
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  • He is/was a middle of the first round pick that started on what could be argued THE, if not, one of the greatest defenses of all time.

    As far as early picks go I sometimes get the feeling that the coaches influence those for than others. Or maybe its just because they are high picks it feels that way because they are talked about more. Carp just seemed to have Cable written all over him. Irvin had Carroll gushing about his pass rush and went so far as to say "taylor made" to play Leo. In his second season they had abandoned that idea. Okung had Gibbs altbough the need for LT was dire and Williams was gone. Carroll pushing for Harvin.
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  • Well...as the old saying goes, "It's just water under the bridge". There's not a knowledgeable fan that thinks that he was "worth" the 15th pick now that we are in year three. However, Pete is not done "wringing him out" yet.
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  • It is what is but every time you make a mistake in the first round it hurts the team in the salary cap, first round picks cost money. It also hurts because you could have had a better player . That said they know what there doing no one's perfect I don't expect them to be right every time and we just won the SB so who cares right now. We need something to talk about though and this is actual on the field news. I'm tired of the off the field back and forth between players that I don't care about . I can't wait for training camp .
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  • 1. We won a uperbowl with Irvin starting 15 of the 15 games he played in last year.
    2. Seahawks still had the best Defense in the NFL despite BI being raw.
    3. Irvin ranked as one of the best pass-rushers in the NFL as a rookie (pressure per snap)
    4. Despite all the negative opinion Irvin actually had a solid 2013 campaign grading out positively.
    5. He still ranks as one of the most productive DEs/OLBs/Pass-Rushers from his class especially among his first round people pets, second only to Chandler Jones (per PFref's Approx. Value). If you also have followed the narrative in CJ, the Patriots they tend to keep their defenders out on the field alot and with that comes an abundance of snaps and more chances of opportunity to make plays.
    6. Those grading Irvin a failure in 2013 solely based on his lack of pass-rush production obviously fail to realize that his opportunities were squandered by more experienced, more dynamic pass-rushers in Avril and Bennett. As well as fail to realize Dan Quinn's vision for this defense. Irvin's role wasnt to be a production whore to appease his draft position. It was to set the strongside edge, protect the flat/erase the RB, occupy blockers so the MLB and WLB can clean up. Obviously, Irvin wasnt great... his run defense is still his biggest weakness... shed blocking, pursuit angles, and instincts in particular the but that comes with experience but I felt he did improve from the run defender he was in 2012 and in college. Irvin also had solid to good grades when asked to pass-rush and drop back into coverage. Overall, the kid was solid and he made huge strides for himself in becoming an all-around player.

    Was he worth the 15th overall pick ? So far compared to his other peers , he hasnt been some major disappointment like some want to paint him. Unlike some of his peers, hes not a bust, hes been a contributing member of two of the best teams in Seahawks history in 2012 and 2013. And unlike some of his peers, Irvin was the rawest pass-rusher possibly one of the rawest players in his class, and still has tremendous amount of upside and potential to tap into. People need ti get over thier personal vendetta against him and realize every player progresses at thier own rate. As long as the team is happy with the progress of thier players that should be enough.

    Its not like we didn't just win a Superbowl with all these guys contributing in some way or another that some of you guys love to talk trash about every day. No merit, no respect what so ever for the men who put in all the work on the field, blood, sweat, pain to bring a Championship to Seattle.

    And all some of you can do is talk about how much someone sucks because that player didnt live up to your oh so lofty expectations. So much awesome sauce from this fanbase
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  • The problem is the "worth his draft spot" is a myth. There is no and probably never will be a chart that shows what production should be expected from a player taken in a specific spot. Until there is, all of these arguments are completely invalid. Irvin in 2013 lacked splash plays, so you get people who didn't notice him enough. Not being noticed enough is not worth a first round pick for some people. Malcolm Smith had splash plays because other teams tried to exploit him and Smith made them pay in some instances. You know what Irvin didn't do in 2013? He didn't get exploited by opposing offenses. For a player that was learning a new position, that is very good.
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  • All this talk about his "not being worth the 15th pick," is ridiculous. It's a sunk cost and entirely irrelevant at this point in time.
    Fact is 50% of first rounders don't pan out, Go look back at that class look at the players picked ahead and just behind him. Quite a few have done much less than Irvin. Fletcher Cox, Shea Mcclellin (sucks), Melvin Ingram (injured IIRC), Quinton Coples none of these guys have done better.

    People get too caught up on the round a player was picked in. It really doesn't matter. The % of success is obviously highest in the 1st round, but if you get playmakers elsewhere what does it matter? You can hardly penalize Irvin for the teams depth.

    What I find unbelievable from the "media experts" they ridiculed Seattle for taking Irvin 15th, nevermind the fact that we traded back and picked up extra players in the move. The very next year there were a string of DE/OLB take MUCH higher than Irvin with far smaller production at college and the media didn't say a word. Dion Jordan (sucks) taken 3rd overall, Ansah @ 5th overall( had a similar season to Irvin's rookie year) and Mingo @6th overall.

    Finally, with the new CBA and financial terms, it's not so detrimental if a teams "misses" on a 1st round pick. Clowney's deal this year is 4 years 22 million-- roughly 5.5/ year. That's not breaking the bank. The 15th pick this year total contract is under 10 million. So Irvin's contract isn't really a big deal (his was 4 years just over 9.3 million total).

    I like what I've seen from Irvin, I'm hopeful we'll see him take that next step this year playing SAM on early downs and rushing the passer in passing situations. I think he could be a very special player.
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  • rehashing his draft value is pointless, the cost is sunk.

    His role vs his athleticism and talent is sure a difficult one to get me head around though. I think he has the athleticism to cover any TE in the league one on one. But his role is to cover a zone a few yards off the LOS. He has amazing pass rushing speed, but doesn't seem to want to physically attack anyone, and if a tackle gets hands on him, he is pretty much done. When he diagnoses a running play before the snap, he can devastate the play in the first second, and did exactly that several times last year, but if he has to control a gap he can get pushed around by a tight end.

    Hearing that he may miss time is only a nuisance. It makes solidifying 53 kind of tough. Some of last season's first half defensive difficulties were tied to injured players coming back and having to figure out their roles mid season, IMO. If Irvin has the same role as last year, it will be fairly simple to plug him in, but if they were hoping to expand his duties this year, I don't see how that will happen easily now.
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  • General Manager wrote:
    Meeker wrote:Irvin had a promising rookie and sophomore season and may miss some TC time and your criticizing the pick?


    He had a promising rookie season but that's it in fact they changed his position and he can't even elevate himself over Malcolm Smith my question to you is was he worth the 15th pick.


    Irvin and Smith don't even play the same role, so I'm not sure why your comparing them, not to mention that Smith played his specific role as well as anyone in the NFL last season.

    And I misspoke in my first post, meant to add more...your criticizing JS in the first round? He has a total of 4 first rounders:

    A complete homerun with Earl Thomas
    A would be homerun if not for health in Russell Okung
    A bust in James Carpenter (even if he breaks out, he will move on to another team IMO, making him a bust for Seattle regardless)
    And a, so far, solid player in Bruce Irvin who should get more snaps showcasing his most valuable asset next season...pass rushing.

    I just don't get how you can criticize that, are you expecting every first rounder to be a homerun? Sorry, that's never going to happen.

    Lets say Irvin plays a solid to good SLB on early downs (which I think he already did last season) and puts up 5+ sacks as a pass rush specialist...not exactly a boom, but thats certainly not a bust. He gives us versatility on our D, which is valuable and gives you roster flexibility.
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  • It's really about potential vs. production.

    Irvin has all the potential in the world. With his physical skill set, he could be one of the very best at his position in the league. Like Scotte mentioned, he can cover an TE in the league. He has coverage skills, as he used to play Safety.

    As for production, his rookie year was in no way a bust, and many draft "experts" that had critsized the pick claimed that Irvin was worth the pick after all. Then we got really deep at that outside rush end position and they moved Irvin. It's easy for me to look at: Irvin never played LB...not in high school or college. Add that to the fact that he wasn't really coached up in college either. The coaching staff knew he was raw.

    People also look at things a bit backwards at times. The didn't move Irvin because he failed at the LEO spot, they moved Irvin because Malcom Smith hadn't really shown consistent production at his spot either and they didn't know what they had there (that and the aforementioned depth at the end spot). The fact is, Irvin never played a down of LBer, yet he went out and didn't embarrass himself at the NFL level. That's saying a lot. Guys who were top picks like Curry and Rolando McClain DID embarrass themselvs at the NFL level. Both picks were lauded at the most NFL ready guys at their position, and didn't do as well as Irvin his first time out.

    It's disappointing that he might miss TC; that's probably going to sink his chances of starting this year, especially now that Smith is a proven producer and we have a sick deep roster at the spot. I'm still not going to moan about the draft pick though.
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  • BASF wrote:The problem is the "worth his draft spot" is a myth. There is no and probably never will be a chart that shows what production should be expected from a player taken in a specific spot. Until there is, all of these arguments are completely invalid. Irvin in 2013 lacked splash plays, so you get people who didn't notice him enough. Not being noticed enough is not worth a first round pick for some people. Malcolm Smith had splash plays because other teams tried to exploit him and Smith made them pay in some instances. You know what Irvin didn't do in 2013? He didn't get exploited by opposing offenses. For a player that was learning a new position, that is very good.


    Irving didn't completely lack for Splash plays. Go watch the @STL game. If he played like that for a full season, he would be the best LB in the league. Going off my memory, he had 9 tackles, INT, Sack and a FF. 2 of those plays were ridiculous. ET adjusted his position pre-snap and he dropped into coverage on the TE and picked off Clemens. On the sack/FF he chased down Clemens across the whole width of the field to strip the ball out of his hands as he was throwing it. There aren't many players in the league who could make that play.

    If this Bruce shows up for even 7-8 games this year, he's a stud LB.
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  • General Manager wrote:
    City Of Reign wrote:
    General Manager wrote:
    Throwdown wrote:Yes he was.


    I disagree .


    Good, then I'm very glad you're not our GM



    I would say that about every member of this board . Thanks for the off topic comment.



    I'm offended. I'd make an excellent GM. I'd hire John Schneider as my intern and make him do all the work.

    Let's face it, as the prototypical first round defensive pick, Irvin has no wowed. And I say that in the sense that he has not been JJ Watt, Luke Keuchly or Robert Quinn straight out the gate. But is that fair? We never asked him to shoulder the load of those guys. We asked him to be a cog in a well oiled defensive machine, and he did that perfectly his rookie year. Then, we move him. Do you have any idea what that does to a guy? First, get settled from college to the NFL. Good, you did that well. Now we're moving you again.

    The thing is no, on a normal team Irvin would not be playing up to par for a 1st round draft pick. But there are a WHOLE lot of first rounders out there doing far worse. And at the moment, he's doing what we ask, so is he really doing anything wrong? If he doesn't elevate his game this year at the same position, then we can talk about letting him go, but right now, it's not costing us more, it's not hurting us, so, uh, if it ain't broke don't fix it
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  • Who else was available for the Hawks to pick instead of Irvin? If you're going to criticize the pick i think you need to compare it to who else was available and glaring holes on the team that could have been filled with those players.
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  • Basis4day wrote:Who else was available for the Hawks to pick instead of Irvin? If you're going to criticize the pick i think you need to compare it to who else was available and glaring holes on the team that could have been filled with those players.


    Let's look at the remainder of the 1st round to see who the Hawks might have taken.

    Quinton Coples
    Dre Kirkpatrick
    Melvin Ingram
    Shea McClellin
    Kendall Wright
    Chandler Jones
    Brandon Weeden
    Riley Reiff
    David DeCastro
    Dont'a Hightower
    Whitney Mercilus
    Kevin Zeitler
    Nick Perry
    Harrison Smith
    A. J. Jenkins
    Doug Martin†
    David Wilson

    Not exactly a list of breakout players.
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  • They've got to figure out a way to use his pass rush skills. If all he can be is an average SAM LB, then yea he absolutely was a waste of the 15th overall pick. Are he and Aaron Curry the highest drafted SAM LBs in the last 20 years?

    But he does have pass rush speed and he's still learning how to play LB so there's hope for the guy. Hopefully he gets healthy, continues to develop, and his pass rush is utilized. I strongly doubt he ever lives up to being a top 15 pick, but he can most likely be a productive player.
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  • Missing_Clink wrote:They've got to figure out a way to use his pass rush skills.


    I think we're too hyper focused on sacks. With Bennett and Avril, this team had, and will have plenty of sacks.

    I liked Irvin being moved to a position where he can be on the field more than just 3rd down. Now he can continue to develop at LB and become a very good ALL AROUND player, instead of just a "pass rush specialist."

    Besides, IMO it's more Irvin's fault that he hasn't blossomed into the deadly pass rusher that we all thought he would, rather than something Pete and Co. need to teach. Irvin has the raw speed and quickness, but for some reason he's having a hard time with the technical development.
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  • EverydayImRusselin wrote:
    Basis4day wrote:Who else was available for the Hawks to pick instead of Irvin? If you're going to criticize the pick i think you need to compare it to who else was available and glaring holes on the team that could have been filled with those players.


    Let's look at the remainder of the 1st round to see who the Hawks might have taken.

    Quinton Coples
    Dre Kirkpatrick
    Melvin Ingram
    Shea McClellin
    Kendall Wright
    Chandler Jones
    Brandon Weeden
    Riley Reiff
    David DeCastro
    Dont'a Hightower
    Whitney Mercilus
    Kevin Zeitler
    Nick Perry
    Harrison Smith
    A. J. Jenkins
    Doug Martin†
    David Wilson

    Not exactly a list of breakout players.


    Throw in Fletcher Cox, Michael Brockers and Michael Floyd as they could have been available had the Hawks no traded down with Philly (Used the picks we got back on Irvin, Jaye Howard, and Jeremy Lane).

    I'm no scout but i'd like to hear from those criticizing the Irvin pick to chime in on which of these players they would have chosen. Granted they could have traded down again but that assumes a trade was available and they already did it once.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Missing_Clink wrote:They've got to figure out a way to use his pass rush skills.


    I think we're too hyper focused on sacks. With Bennett and Avril, this team had, and will have plenty of sacks.

    I liked Irvin being moved to a position where he can be on the field more than just 3rd down. Now he can continue to develop at LB and become a very good ALL AROUND player, instead of just a "pass rush specialist."

    Besides, IMO it's more Irvin's fault that he hasn't blossomed into the deadly pass rusher that we all thought he would, rather than something Pete and Co. need to teach. Irvin has the raw speed and quickness, but for some reason he's having a hard time with the technical development.


    I thought Irvin played solid at LB. The Hawks ideally don't want to blitz, so the chances you had to use Irvin in pass rush as an LB was a chance that wouldn't go to Clem, Bennett, Avril or McDonald. His sack totals are a result of the scheme employed.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Missing_Clink wrote:They've got to figure out a way to use his pass rush skills.


    I think we're too hyper focused on sacks. With Bennett and Avril, this team had, and will have plenty of sacks.

    I liked Irvin being moved to a position where he can be on the field more than just 3rd down. Now he can continue to develop at LB and become a very good ALL AROUND player, instead of just a "pass rush specialist."

    Besides, IMO it's more Irvin's fault that he hasn't blossomed into the deadly pass rusher that we all thought he would, rather than something Pete and Co. need to teach. Irvin has the raw speed and quickness, but for some reason he's having a hard time with the technical development.


    But is it? He looked like he was going that way his rookie year. 8 sacks and 12 hits on the QB. His tackle numbers overall were low, but it certainly boded well. Players of course need to be accountable when they have the ability but don't use it, but I don't think we put him in place at LB to develop those skills further, so he can't be held fully responsible for not building on those rookie stats. Personally I'm with you, I like the move to LB and what it should develop him into. I like the idea of using him as a spy, so to speak, on guys like Kap who are a run threat when flushed out of the pocket, like the Texans did with Mercilus against Wilson. His speed would really pay dividends there
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  • General Manager wrote:
    Meeker wrote:Irvin had a promising rookie and sophomore season and may miss some TC time and your criticizing the pick?


    He had a promising rookie season but that's it in fact they changed his position and he can't even elevate himself over Malcolm Smith my question to you is was he worth the 15th pick .


    I appreciate your point, but I think you're off the mark here. He's not competing against Malcolm Smith for a position. Bruce was a starter last year at SLB and Malcolm was a sub.

    And Malcolm Smith has proved himself to be much better than his draft status would indicate. He will get paid on his next contract. Not first round type of money, but definitely not 7th round money either. I expect him to get mid-range LB pay, say 4 million per year.

    Bruce's situation is not on him or his ability. He did great in his rookie year on what I would say was an "okay" defensive line. imaho, our Dline didn't get really good until 2013. Last year he was put in to a position he has never played, and did a damn good job. Good enough to stay in a rotation that included KJWright and Malcolm Smith.

    I can see where one would expect the 15th overall pick to have more production, but give the man time. He's still learning and hasn't been given a chance to settle in to a position. When he does, he will open some eyes and show why Pete picked him 15th.
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  • Irvin has a ton of potential and no one is writing him off, I think he will have a better year this year than last year. We should be able to go back and look at previous draft selections though that's what fans do. It's probably to early to do that with Bruce I have a feeling things will look a lot better for him at the end of the season. It doesn't seem like they have a lot of confidence in him with the position change and the way he was used last year. That doesn't mean he can't turn it around this year and I think he will.
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  • ManBunts wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Missing_Clink wrote:They've got to figure out a way to use his pass rush skills.


    I think we're too hyper focused on sacks. With Bennett and Avril, this team had, and will have plenty of sacks.

    I liked Irvin being moved to a position where he can be on the field more than just 3rd down. Now he can continue to develop at LB and become a very good ALL AROUND player, instead of just a "pass rush specialist."

    Besides, IMO it's more Irvin's fault that he hasn't blossomed into the deadly pass rusher that we all thought he would, rather than something Pete and Co. need to teach. Irvin has the raw speed and quickness, but for some reason he's having a hard time with the technical development.


    But is it? He looked like he was going that way his rookie year. 8 sacks and 12 hits on the QB. His tackle numbers overall were low, but it certainly boded well. Players of course need to be accountable when they have the ability but don't use it, but I don't think we put him in place at LB to develop those skills further, so he can't be held fully responsible for not building on those rookie stats. Personally I'm with you, I like the move to LB and what it should develop him into. I like the idea of using him as a spy, so to speak, on guys like Kap who are a run threat when flushed out of the pocket, like the Texans did with Mercilus against Wilson. His speed would really pay dividends there


    Pete and John loves multi-dimensional D-Line players, guys who can play all across the line. Unlike other DE's we have (had), Irvin was not good against the run or dropping inside like Clem, Bennett, Avril, etc. The playoff game against Atlanta hammered my point home loud and clear.........Irvin could not, and still cannot handle the load this team requires of a DE.

    To limit him to just 3rd down DE duties is not taking full advantage of his skill set............which is why he was moved to LB. Now he can be on the field more, and still rush the passer if we need him to.
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  • EverydayImRusselin wrote:
    BASF wrote:The problem is the "worth his draft spot" is a myth. There is no and probably never will be a chart that shows what production should be expected from a player taken in a specific spot. Until there is, all of these arguments are completely invalid. Irvin in 2013 lacked splash plays, so you get people who didn't notice him enough. Not being noticed enough is not worth a first round pick for some people. Malcolm Smith had splash plays because other teams tried to exploit him and Smith made them pay in some instances. You know what Irvin didn't do in 2013? He didn't get exploited by opposing offenses. For a player that was learning a new position, that is very good.


    Irving didn't completely lack for Splash plays. Go watch the @STL game. If he played like that for a full season, he would be the best LB in the league. Going off my memory, he had 9 tackles, INT, Sack and a FF. 2 of those plays were ridiculous. ET adjusted his position pre-snap and he dropped into coverage on the TE and picked off Clemens. On the sack/FF he chased down Clemens across the whole width of the field to strip the ball out of his hands as he was throwing it. There aren't many players in the league who could make that play.

    If this Bruce shows up for even 7-8 games this year, he's a stud LB.



    Agreed about the Rams game. Their gameplan featured attacking Irvin to see how well he would handle it. As you pointed out he had a very good game including a couple of splash plays. It is the reason most teams did not go his way, so he did not have many opportunities for splash plays after that game.
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  • This is the best starting LB combo on the team. Its the one we saw most in those last six games of excellent defensive production.

    WLB: Malcolm Smith
    MLB: Bobby Wagner
    SLB: K.J. Wright

    Irvin will likely play a backup role at SLB and a reserve role as a passer rush from the SDE position.
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    hawknation2014
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  • General Manager wrote:Apparently he's doing fine rehabbing the hip but they don't know if of when he will be available for training camp. Looks like another road block in his development he needs this training camp. Bruce was the 15th pick in the draft wasn't he.
    They have been great in the later rounds but they need to be better with there first pick then they have been since O'kung/Thomas . Pete said he's up against it and will have to work his butt off to make it back.


    The quote from Pete in the recent article is actually a re-hash quote from Pete in a press conf sometime in the last camp or in OTAs, one of the two. What happened was, Irvin made the tweet about being 100 times better and then the writer used a previous comment so that they actually had something to write about. Or rather, make it appear that way anyway.

    Nothing the writer say is factually untrue, but the comment from Pete and Irvin's tweet happened at two different times. Meaning, the situation would need to be re-evaluated. Granted, Pete would still probably say something vague regardless knowing full well that he doesn't have to rush anything with Irvin.
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  • hawknation2014 wrote:This is the best starting LB combo on the team. Its the one we saw most in those last six games of excellent defensive production.

    WLB: Malcolm Smith
    MLB: Bobby Wagner
    SLB: K.J. Wright

    Irvin will likely play a backup role at SLB and a reserve role as a passer rush from the SDE position.


    Didn't KJ gt injured @SF and not comeback until the NFCCG? I think that was Bruce/Bobby/Malcom for most of the end of the season.
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  • EverydayImRusselin wrote:
    Let's look at the remainder of the 1st round to see who the Hawks might have taken.

    Quinton Coples
    Dre Kirkpatrick
    Melvin Ingram
    Shea McClellin
    Kendall Wright
    Chandler Jones
    Brandon Weeden
    Riley Reiff
    David DeCastro
    Dont'a Hightower
    Whitney Mercilus
    Kevin Zeitler
    Nick Perry
    Harrison Smith
    A. J. Jenkins
    Doug Martin†
    David Wilson

    Not exactly a list of breakout players.


    Chandler Jones, chosen by New England at #25, is going to be a star and would have been a much better pick, but that's hindsight (even though I was advocating for Chandler Jones at the time.) You are generally right that there wasn't a lot to choose from. Irvin is not nearly as good as I would hope a #15 pick would be -- he probably won't start even if he is healthy -- but given what was available, I can't complain too much.

    Bruce Irvin is, of course, a great athlete, along with being a good guy who takes his craft seriously and works hard to improve. Fans tend to get infatuated with great athletes and overrate them. The question yet to be answered is, "Can he play football?" It took Malcolm Smith and Byron Maxwell a while to make it, so there is still a good chance that he could break through.

    The eight sacks his rookie year were, in my opinion, an aberration. They occurred mostly in home games where there was ridiculous crowd noise and the offense was confused. He had very few tackles outside of the sacks (3 solo tackles for the season and a few more assists), but he was in only for passing plays. Most of his sacks were when the plays broke down and the quarterbacks had to move and weren't expecting someone that fast to run them down that quickly. Usually, he did not penetrate directly to the QB. That is why he only had four QB hurries for the entire season. Once the league figured out that all he did was run fast around the outside, he was dominated. He had *one* sack his last eight games. He was totally exposed in the playoff game against Atlanta when Clemons was out.

    I have very strong supporting evidence on my contention that he was not the pass rusher his numbers indicated his rookie year: HE WAS REMOVED FROM THAT ROLE THE NEXT YEAR.

    As a linebacker, he was adequate -- at best. After he served his four game suspension, he started every game except the Super Bowl. He seemed decent at first but like in his rookie season, he disappeared towards the end. He contributions as a linebacker were, imo, minimal. The fact that he was replaced as a starter by Malcolm Smith in the Super Bowl and that the defense played the best it's ever played says a lot. There is competition, but Malcolm Smith -- who was unbelievable the last two games -- is the presumptive starter going into the season.

    Bruce Irvin still has a lot of potential. He is incredibly fast for a front seven player and has put on weight. Hopefully, he has gained some power with that weight. Ken Norton, Travis Jones and Dan Quinn are great teachers, and Irving is a hard worker, so he will surely improve. Both Quinn and Norton said that along with playing linebacker, Irvin would play at pass rushing DE more this next season, as he did in rookie year. I think this is his best position and the position that he wants to play. With added weight and power, better technique and more moves, I don't think he will get dominated like he did the end of his rookie season.

    I don't think the coaches would mind that much if Bruce Irvin was stashed on the PUP list at the beginning of the season. With Korey Toomer and Kevin Pierre-Louis (I also like Mike Taylor for the practice squad) added to a line-backing crew that has everyone back, it would give them a chance to keep one more player to evaluate.

    .
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    Bob_the_Destroyer
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  • Bob_the_Destroyer wrote:That is why he only had four QB hurries for the entire season. Once the league figured out that all he did was run fast around the outside, he was dominated. He had *one* sack his last eight games. He was totally exposed in the playoff game against Atlanta when Clemons was out.


    PFF shows him with 20 pressures and 12 QB hits.
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  • I'm not sure where you're getting that the Seahawks don't know his timetable. We don't know what they know.
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  • BASF wrote:
    EverydayImRusselin wrote:
    BASF wrote:The problem is the "worth his draft spot" is a myth. There is no and probably never will be a chart that shows what production should be expected from a player taken in a specific spot. Until there is, all of these arguments are completely invalid. Irvin in 2013 lacked splash plays, so you get people who didn't notice him enough. Not being noticed enough is not worth a first round pick for some people. Malcolm Smith had splash plays because other teams tried to exploit him and Smith made them pay in some instances. You know what Irvin didn't do in 2013? He didn't get exploited by opposing offenses. For a player that was learning a new position, that is very good.


    Irving didn't completely lack for Splash plays. Go watch the @STL game. If he played like that for a full season, he would be the best LB in the league. Going off my memory, he had 9 tackles, INT, Sack and a FF. 2 of those plays were ridiculous. ET adjusted his position pre-snap and he dropped into coverage on the TE and picked off Clemens. On the sack/FF he chased down Clemens across the whole width of the field to strip the ball out of his hands as he was throwing it. There aren't many players in the league who could make that play.

    If this Bruce shows up for even 7-8 games this year, he's a stud LB.



    Agreed about the Rams game. Their gameplan featured attacking Irvin to see how well he would handle it. As you pointed out he had a very good game including a couple of splash plays. It is the reason most teams did not go his way, so he did not have many opportunities for splash plays after that game.


    Strongly disagreed.
    Irvin's good side was on display that game, as was his bad. He got blocked out of plays by tight ends and fullbacks. He tried to swim past the tackle repeatedly rather than just take on the block and control his gap. But worst of all, from the first quarter til the end of the game, he could be a yard from the play with the runner still struggling for yards and stand there watching it unfold.

    I think Irvin's biggest problem is he is a finesse defensive player. One of the Rams last plays in that game is a 5 yard run where Irvin opens a gap behind by trying to make a splash play, then gets pushed to the ground and given the business by a Ram tackle, 77. They know he isn't a physical player either.

    Irvin could be just like Matthews in GB. But he isn't. He doesn't want it as badly.
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    Scottemojo
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  • EverydayImRusselin wrote:
    hawknation2014 wrote:This is the best starting LB combo on the team. Its the one we saw most in those last six games of excellent defensive production.

    WLB: Malcolm Smith
    MLB: Bobby Wagner
    SLB: K.J. Wright

    Irvin will likely play a backup role at SLB and a reserve role as a passer rush from the SDE position.


    Didn't KJ gt injured @SF and not comeback until the NFCCG? I think that was Bruce/Bobby/Malcom for most of the end of the season.


    That's right. This was the lineup for most of the Super Bowl. In those last six games, we saw Smith at WLB and Wagner at MLB to great effect.
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    hawknation2014
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  • I agree with Scotte. Bruce is not physical enough. He doesnt stick his nose into the scrum but skirts the outside. Playing LB or Leo against the run you have to split gaps take on and shed blockers. Hope he makes it happen.
    Go Hawks!
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    j hawk
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