PFF's Depth Chart - Seattle Seahawks

Smelly McUgly · Jun 19, 2014

Link here: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... -seahawks/

It's interesting to see how they dole out elite/very good/good/average starter/etc.

I was surprised that Percy Harvin isn't elite and that O'Brien Schofield is a below average starter according to the chart. They also definitely dead wrong about Jon Ryan being below average - that is a view of his stats without giving them context that PFF should really re-consider. Otherwise, it looks fair to me. I must be a super-homer because I didn't see any players that I would consider overrated in this chart.

Also, look at all those "not enough information" players as our defensive depth! I have supreme faith that we'll get at least a couple good players out of all those guys, if not a couple good players and a couple very good/elite players.

hawknation2014 · Jun 19, 2014

TDOTSEAHAWK · Jun 19, 2014

What is the criteria for elite vs high quality vs good etc.? Is it their own proprietary scoring system?

jimbojones31 · Jun 19, 2014

The thing that jumps out at me is KJ being rated higher than Wagner. No way on earth Wagner isn't a high quality starter.

Smelly McUgly · Jun 19, 2014

TDOTSEAHAWK":1ol6pq3f said:
What is the criteria for elite vs high quality vs good etc.? Is it their own proprietary scoring system?

I believe they use some combination of their grades + the eye test to come to a consensus on the rankings. It's not clear what the specific ratio is there.

Russ Willstrong · Jun 19, 2014

Chart maker was color blind. Should be more blues and greens on the canvas. This year will prove it.

evergreen · Jun 19, 2014

How is John Ryan, below average?

hawknation2014 · Jun 19, 2014

evergreen":9mr708es said:
How is John Ryan, below average?

They're probably judging him solely off his 42 yard average-- and two blocked punts-- rather than his hang time, positioning, league-best fair catch rate, and mere 3.9 yards per return.

jdemps · Jun 19, 2014

hawknation2014":1kadlbsn said:
evergreen":1kadlbsn said:

How is John Ryan, below average?

Click to expand...

They're probably judging him solely off his 42 yard average-- and two blocked punts-- rather than his hang time, positioning, league-best fair catch rate, and mere 3.9 yards per return.

John Ryan is below average the same way Russell Wilson is a game manager. It's the system. We're a ground and pound, defense minded, field position team. Coach tells JR to hang it out there for a fair catch and let the defense win the game, so he does. He was booming them back in '09 and '10 when we didn't have the D we have now. He's got AT LEAST average leg strength but he's elite at what he's asked to do.

CANHawk · Jun 19, 2014

Not really fair calling McCoy below average. He didn't play last year, but was pretty steady prior to that...

SalishHawkFan · Jun 19, 2014

Most of us are very much homers and of course we think that some of our guys are under rated. Comes with being a fan. But I have to say this:

The All-time wins leader through two regular seasons: Russell Wilson

Second most playoff games first two years: Russell Wilson

Second best passer rating, first two seasons: Russell Wilson

Top 5 in Best average per pass attempt, first two season (min. 500 attempts): Russell Wilson

4th Most rushing yards by QB, first two seasons: Russell Wilson

Tied for most TD's rookie season: Russell Wilson

If that's not elite, I don't think I entirely buy into their grading system.

Jville · Jun 19, 2014

TDOTSEAHAWK":cgmirjpe said:
What is the criteria for elite vs high quality vs good etc.? Is it their own proprietary scoring system?

The primary criteria for the culture at PPF is simplicity, with all it's drawbacks, for maximum public appeal and entertainment.

I would think all of the 32 teams in the NFL and most professional sports have moved (internally) well beyond the numerical and chart simplicity we see for public consumption. Data, charts and presentations for public consumption have their uses (games ... debates ... camouflage ... ect.) But, they also have their obvious flaws.

Internally, teams have their own unique data gathering and grading criteria. They develop unique and more complex relational charts and models ..... much of which can change over time. Realistically, it's not something the general public can readily digest.

I can not offer a 25 word or less explanation of what professional organizations are doing. I can tell you that, in America, the origins of much of what we use today is considered by many to have been a byproduct of World War II. For anyone interested in committing the time and doing the work ...... Bing, Google or Search the words Operations Research. That is a good starting point.

Most, understandably, do not invest the time to get their arms around the world of operations research. So ...... PPF, along with many other entertainment cultures, will continue to provide entertainment for those pressed for time .... the general public. As part of the national scene, their entertainment. And as entertainment, they are an evolving work in progress.

There are a lot of sites out there that might better serve the public with the disclaimer "For Entertainment Purposes".

But then again, figuring that out is part of the fun of living in America.

kearly · Jun 19, 2014

Too high: Max Unger (in 2013), Michael Bowie, KJ Wright.

Too low: LJP, Sweezy, Ryan, McCoy, Wilson.

I think McDaniel and Mebane should be on the same level, though I'm not sure if they should be light green or dark green.

Blitzer88 · Jun 19, 2014

How do they judge a long snapper?

And Jon Ryan below average..............what??!?!!!!?????

CANHawk · Jun 19, 2014

Jville":33frqqzx said:
TDOTSEAHAWK":33frqqzx said:

What is the criteria for elite vs high quality vs good etc.? Is it their own proprietary scoring system?

Click to expand...

The primary criteria for the culture at PPF is simplicity, with all it's drawbacks, for maximum public appeal and entertainment.

I would think all of the 32 teams in the NFL and most professional sports have moved (internally) well beyond the numerical and chart simplicity we see for public consumption. Data, charts and presentations for public consumption have their uses (games ... debates ... camouflage ... ect.) But, they also have their obvious flaws.

Internally, teams have their own unique data gathering and grading criteria. They develop unique and more complex relational charts and models ..... much of which can change over time. Realistically, it's not something the general public can readily digest.

I can not offer a 25 word or less explanation of what professional organizations are doing. I can tell you that, in America, the origins of much of what we use today is considered by many to have been a byproduct of World War II. For anyone interested in committing the time and doing the work ...... Bing, Google or Search the words Operations Research. That is a good starting point.

Most, understandably, do not invest the time to get their arms around the world of operations research. So ...... PPF, along with many other entertainment cultures, will continue to provide entertainment for those pressed for time .... the general public. As part of the national scene, their entertainment. And as entertainment, they are an evolving work in progress.

There are a lot of sites out there that might better serve the public with the disclaimer "For Entertainment Purposes".

But then again, figuring that out is part of the fun of living in America.

Dafuq are you talking about.....?

RolandDeschain · Jun 19, 2014

PFF is worthless for their player ratings, (which those color codes are pretty much exclusively based on) but fantastic for raw fact-based statistics.

hawknation2014 · Jun 19, 2014

If you look at their projected lineup ratings, it appears they have Russell Wilson, Percy Harvin, and Kam Chancellor as fringe "elite starters," a term they reserve for very few players.

Bobby Wagner, Malcolm Smith, and Byron Maxwell are fringe "high quality starters." That makes sense for Maxwell and Smith, who weren't starters the whole season but whose play was off the charts toward the end of the year. Bobby Wagner though is a legit high quality player, so that was a big miss by them. I agree with making Wright a "high quality starter," but he actually had a lower rating than Wagner or Smith this past season.

Jeremy Lane is a fringe "solid starter." I guess you can justify it because Lane hasn't played all that much, but his talent level is higher than that.

J.R. Sweezy and Luke Willson are listed as fringe "adequate starters." Those are two huge misses by PFF. Sweezy and Willson are going to breakout in a major way this year. Sweezy has refined his technique and is in incredible shape; if he has the season many are expecting, he could push for a spot at the Pro Bowl. Willson might be a best red zone threat on the team.

At this point, Carpenter resembles more of a "poor starter," but maybe the weight loss will help him improve his level of activity. Anthony McCoy in no way deserves that rating; he's an adequate or slightly below average player based on his last season of production.

BirdsCommaAngry · Jun 19, 2014

Great post, Jville.

Subzero717 · Jun 22, 2014

hawknation2014":2h7fec81 said:
evergreen":2h7fec81 said:

How is John Ryan, below average?

Click to expand...

They're probably judging him solely off his 42 yard average-- and two blocked punts-- rather than his hang time, positioning, league-best fair catch rate, and mere 3.9 yards per return.

So their grading system is bogus? I would agree with that.

Anthony! · Jun 22, 2014

jdemps":16cpo8fn said:
hawknation2014":16cpo8fn said:

evergreen":16cpo8fn said:

How is John Ryan, below average?

Click to expand...

They're probably judging him solely off his 42 yard average-- and two blocked punts-- rather than his hang time, positioning, league-best fair catch rate, and mere 3.9 yards per return.

Click to expand...

John Ryan is below average the same way Russell Wilson is a game manager. It's the system. We're a ground and pound, defense minded, field position team. Coach tells JR to hang it out there for a fair catch and let the defense win the game, so he does. He was booming them back in '09 and '10 when we didn't have the D we have now. He's got AT LEAST average leg strength but he's elite at what he's asked to do.

Presuming you are being sarcastic here,

PFF's Depth Chart - Seattle Seahawks

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