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Will Luck get more than Wilson

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Re: Will Luck get more than Wilson
Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:45 pm
  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:Luck will get a new contract at 38 years of age down the road that makes him the new highest-paid QB in the league based on his future potential, too.

    I'm so tired of the Luck hype train. I wish it'd derail over a cliff and explode on impact. Potential is worthless, what matters is what you do.


    Nearly 9000 yards of total offense, 55 total TD's, a playoff win .. all with a terrible defense and no running game (you know, the same things Wilson doesn't have)

    Andrew Luck is an outstanding quarterback. Why so many people on this board choose to basically hate the guy because he was drafted the same year as Russell Wilson is beyond me.

    I have no doubt that if Luck were swapped for Wilson straight up back in 2012, that he'd have a Super Bowl ring right now too. I also think Wilson would still be a very good player, but would probably be falling short because of his supporting cast.

    I see Luck play all the time here and I have to agree -The guy does a lot with so little..Wayne was out most of the year btw..I like Russ but I respect what Luck can do..
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Re: Will Luck get more than Wilson
Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:04 pm
  • IndyHawk wrote:
    Hasselbeck wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:Luck will get a new contract at 38 years of age down the road that makes him the new highest-paid QB in the league based on his future potential, too.

    I'm so tired of the Luck hype train. I wish it'd derail over a cliff and explode on impact. Potential is worthless, what matters is what you do.


    Nearly 9000 yards of total offense, 55 total TD's, a playoff win .. all with a terrible defense and no running game (you know, the same things Wilson doesn't have)

    Andrew Luck is an outstanding quarterback. Why so many people on this board choose to basically hate the guy because he was drafted the same year as Russell Wilson is beyond me.

    I have no doubt that if Luck were swapped for Wilson straight up back in 2012, that he'd have a Super Bowl ring right now too. I also think Wilson would still be a very good player, but would probably be falling short because of his supporting cast.

    I see Luck play all the time here and I have to agree -The guy does a lot with so little..Wayne was out most of the year btw..I like Russ but I respect what Luck can do..


    Who would you rather have, Wayne or Harvin?

    Because using that excuse is getting so tired it hurts. "But Wayne got hurt.... WAHHHHHH"

    Here, Ill change it up.

    "...Harvin was out the WHOLE year btw..I like Luck but I respect what Wilson can do.."
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    So Russell has leverage but marshawn doesn't ? I thought its next man up. Hey we got t jack and bj Daniels right ??
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Re: Will Luck get more than Wilson
Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:25 pm
  • Luck's numbers with Wayne (~91 rating) were still worse than Wilson's, and they got worse when Wayne went out (low 80s rating). So, obviously, having a receiver of Wayne's caliber helps. T.Y. Hilton is also a great receiver who gave the #1 passing D a ton of fits based purely on his unique skills. He isn't a system player.

    Basically, Wilson + "Pedestrians" is still > Luck + Wayne/Hilton. Would Luck's efficiency numbers improve with a better RB? Probably, but the extent of that improvement is anyone's guess. You could make the case that Wilson with a healthy O-line and a true #1 would be a 110 rating QB w/ 30-40 TDs. We can go round and round with "what ifs."
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Re: Will Luck get more than Wilson
Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:58 pm
  • In addition a bad defense means the offense has to score more. So sure it doesn't help win a Super Bowl but it sure as heck is a reason for 9,000 yards and 55TDs

    RWs stats would look very different if he carried the team.

    Two superstars IMHO
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Re: Will Luck get more than Wilson
Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:01 pm
  • mikeak wrote:In addition a bad defense means the offense has to score more. So sure it doesn't help win a Super Bowl but it sure as heck is a reason for 9,000 yards and 55TDs


    But the Colts haven't been scoring more. The Seahawks have outscored the Colts both years that Wilson has been running the offense.
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Re: Will Luck get more than Wilson
Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:27 pm
  • TXHawk wrote:
    mikeak wrote:In addition a bad defense means the offense has to score more. So sure it doesn't help win a Super Bowl but it sure as heck is a reason for 9,000 yards and 55TDs


    But the Colts haven't been scoring more. The Seahawks have outscored the Colts both years that Wilson has been running the offense.



    That would be a balanced attack and a scoring defense helping, remember Marino had a lot of gawdy stats also, he went to one Super Bowl and never won it. That was very early in his career when they didn't put the whole team on his shoulders.
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Re: Will Luck get more than Wilson
Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:35 pm
  • rideaducati wrote:I hope Russell sees that there has not been one team that has a QB on a max contract that has won a Super Bowl.

    Brees wins one with the Saints, holds out so he can be the highest paid QB ever and his team goes to crap until the salary cap goes up.

    Flacco wins with the Ravens...gets paid...team goes to crap.

    Ryan doesn't even win one...gets paid...team goes to crap.

    Cutler, Romo, Sanchez etc... same thing.

    By the time Russell gets paid, the salary cap will be a lot higher, so maybe it won't hurt the Seahawks as badly as it did the poor saps that were forced to pay their guys during a time when the cap remained flat. Still, no single player should get 15% of a team's cap at any time.


    ''well first off you do realize in both Ryans and Flaccos case there were other issues that had no barring on the WB being paid that hurt them. Now as to your saying that NO team with a QB on a MAX deal ever won an SB, that would be wrong, Montana, Elway, to name a few. The other thing that you are not taking into account are the teams that are always in the hunt, GB, NO, Denver, NE, to name a few all have franchise QBs that are in the tops in pay, and guess what despite that they are always in the hunt and on any given day. That is what a franchise QB can do. As to your allegation about no single player getting 15%, ah yeah and do not worry because 2 years after he signs it he will not be getting 15% of the cap because it will have gone up so much. Not to mention if he signs a deal like I have been hearing which is 6 years 120MIl, that is really a 7 years 121 mil deal (he would still have 1 year at under 1 mil left plus the new deal of 6 more)which is 17.28 Mila year which with a cap of 135mil that is only 12.8% in 2 years later will be under 10%.
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Re: Will Luck get more than Wilson
Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:39 pm
  • Escamillo wrote:
    Anthony! wrote:
    Escamillo wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:Luck will get a new contract at 38 years of age down the road that makes him the new highest-paid QB in the league based on his future potential, too.

    I'm so tired of the Luck hype train. I wish it'd derail over a cliff and explode on impact. Potential is worthless, what matters is what you do.


    Well, this might not please you then:
    Whose the best running QB in the NFL? "Andrew Luck", says MMQB

    :|


    Yay but you have to consider the source it Peter King he has been all over Luck since day one and very anti Rw



    But Peter King didn't write the article, Andy Benoit did. :D
    Maybe Sherm can rebut the article, since he also writes for MMBQ. But he's a Luck fanboy himself, so who knows what he'd say. :D



    True King did not write it but look at the top of MMQB whose name do you see? It says the "MMQB with Peter King", Peter runs it, and has final say on anything that Is put on it,
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Re: Will Luck get more than Wilson
Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:41 pm
  • IndyHawk wrote:
    Hasselbeck wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:Luck will get a new contract at 38 years of age down the road that makes him the new highest-paid QB in the league based on his future potential, too.

    I'm so tired of the Luck hype train. I wish it'd derail over a cliff and explode on impact. Potential is worthless, what matters is what you do.


    Nearly 9000 yards of total offense, 55 total TD's, a playoff win .. all with a terrible defense and no running game (you know, the same things Wilson doesn't have)

    Andrew Luck is an outstanding quarterback. Why so many people on this board choose to basically hate the guy because he was drafted the same year as Russell Wilson is beyond me.

    I have no doubt that if Luck were swapped for Wilson straight up back in 2012, that he'd have a Super Bowl ring right now too. I also think Wilson would still be a very good player, but would probably be falling short because of his supporting cast.

    I see Luck play all the time here and I have to agree -The guy does a lot with so little..Wayne was out most of the year btw..I like Russ but I respect what Luck can do..



    yes that little top 10 pass blocking o-line compare to RWs last place pass blocking o-line, That little top 10 scoring defense, that easier conference, those better Wrs, and that run game that avg the same ypa as we did. Sorry Luck has it easier than RW, and still has not out played Rw.
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Re: Will Luck get more than Wilson
Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:44 pm
  • mikeak wrote:In addition a bad defense means the offense has to score more. So sure it doesn't help win a Super Bowl but it sure as heck is a reason for 9,000 yards and 55TDs

    RWs stats would look very different if he carried the team.

    Two superstars IMHO



    Problem is Indys defense is not that bad they were top 10 in scoring, that is pretty good.
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Re: Will Luck get more than Wilson
Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:48 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:
    TXHawk wrote:
    mikeak wrote:In addition a bad defense means the offense has to score more. So sure it doesn't help win a Super Bowl but it sure as heck is a reason for 9,000 yards and 55TDs


    But the Colts haven't been scoring more. The Seahawks have outscored the Colts both years that Wilson has been running the offense.



    That would be a balanced attack and a scoring defense helping, remember Marino had a lot of gawdy stats also, he went to one Super Bowl and never won it. That was very early in his career when they didn't put the whole team on his shoulders.


    I was living in south Florida in 1984 and saw a lot of Dolphins games the year that they went to the Super Bowl. Marino had 48 TD passes and over 5000 yards passing while their top running back had about 600 yards. If that's not putting a team on his shoulders I don't know what is.

    Listen, I like Luck and think he has a bright future but I'm getting weary of the constant excuse-making, goalpost moving, and arguments based on unprovable hypothetical situations his supporters constantly engage in to claim he is better than Wilson because the stats so far simply don't bear that out.
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Re: Will Luck get more than Wilson
Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:53 pm
  • TXHawk wrote:
    mikeak wrote:In addition a bad defense means the offense has to score more. So sure it doesn't help win a Super Bowl but it sure as heck is a reason for 9,000 yards and 55TDs


    But the Colts haven't been scoring more. The Seahawks have outscored the Colts both years that Wilson has been running the offense.


    Well for one Luck only has 8196 passing yards not 9k and even if you count running as well he only has 8828 again not 9k, and he only has 46 passing tds, and if you add running it is 55tds, and of course a complt% of 57, and QB rating of 81.5, and 6.85 YPA, and 27 ints, a 1td to 26 attempts, and 1.7 td to int ratio

    Rw has 6475 passing yards and if you add running 7503 yards, he has 52 Passing tds, and a total of 57 tds, complt% of 63.6, Qb rating of 100.6, ypa of 8.09 and only 19ints, and 1 td to 15 attempts, and 2.7 td to int ratio

    So basically with a worse o-line, worse wr, and way less attempts (rw has 800 Luck over 1100) Rw is as good or better in every category but yards.
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Re: Will Luck get more than Wilson
Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:16 am
  • No one mentioned Da'Rick Rogers in this thread but according to this Colts writer he "saved their season". http://www.stampedeblue.com/2014/1/27/5 ... th-in-2013 Luck making chicken salad with chicken chit? Not so fast. Rogers was a Georgia High School Player of the Year and All-SEC at Tennessee who many thought was better than Cordarelle Patterson and Justin Hunter.
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Re: Will Luck get more than Wilson
Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:28 am
  • Popeyejones wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:None of it matters. The only thing that matters is SuperbOwl Titles

    Wilson - 1
    Luck - 0


    Ricardo Lockette - 1
    TY Hilton - 0

    ;)

    (FWIW I prefer Wilson as a QB to Luck and think Luck has been overrated as a pro due to his college play, but the obsessive, petty insecurity about Luck in comparison to WIlson that exists for some on this board is also hilarious, and completely unmatched IMO and simply non-existent among Panthers fans, Redskins fans, and 9ers fans (who would be the other suspects) from what I've seen).



    Mostly agree. Panther fans will never like Luck because he went back to school instead of being the #1 pick of 2011. Most also feel as if they got a potential Michael Jordan over a potential Larry Bird and have moved on.
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Re: Will Luck get more than Wilson
Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:30 am
  • ctrcat wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:None of it matters. The only thing that matters is SuperbOwl Titles

    Wilson - 1
    Luck - 0


    Ricardo Lockette - 1
    TY Hilton - 0

    ;)

    (FWIW I prefer Wilson as a QB to Luck and think Luck has been overrated as a pro due to his college play, but the obsessive, petty insecurity about Luck in comparison to WIlson that exists for some on this board is also hilarious, and completely unmatched IMO and simply non-existent among Panthers fans, Redskins fans, and 9ers fans (who would be the other suspects) from what I've seen).



    Mostly agree. Panther fans will never like Luck because he went back to school instead of being the #1 pick of 2011. Most also feel as if they got a potential Michael Jordan over a potential Larry Bird and have moved on.


    Well, I happened to visit carolinahuddle.com yesterday (a Panthers esssage board I've been visiting since 2010, one of my favorite NFL message boards), just to read their comments about the Madden cover competition. Someone posted that they were surprised that Russell Wilson didn't go deeper in the Madden cover competition than he did, and there were responses like, "F*** Russell Wilson", and "I hate Russell Wilson as much as the next guy, but...", which gave me the impression that there are Panther fans resentful of RW, and it reminded me of the group of misguided Seahawks fans that hate on Luck for no good reason.

    And I've also seen hatred of Wilson expressed at Washington message boards, out of resentment that he's surpassed RG3 at this point in their careers.

    I don't think irrational resentment/hate for other QBs is only found among Seahawks fans.
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Re: Will Luck get more than Wilson
Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:37 am
  • Escamillo wrote:
    ctrcat wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:None of it matters. The only thing that matters is SuperbOwl Titles

    Wilson - 1
    Luck - 0


    Ricardo Lockette - 1
    TY Hilton - 0

    ;)

    (FWIW I prefer Wilson as a QB to Luck and think Luck has been overrated as a pro due to his college play, but the obsessive, petty insecurity about Luck in comparison to WIlson that exists for some on this board is also hilarious, and completely unmatched IMO and simply non-existent among Panthers fans, Redskins fans, and 9ers fans (who would be the other suspects) from what I've seen).



    Mostly agree. Panther fans will never like Luck because he went back to school instead of being the #1 pick of 2011. Most also feel as if they got a potential Michael Jordan over a potential Larry Bird and have moved on.


    Well, I happened to visit carolinahuddle.com yesterday (a Panthers esssage board I've been visiting since 2010, one of my favorite NFL message boards), just to read their comments about the Madden cover competition. Someone posted that they were surprised that Russell Wilson didn't go deeper in the Madden cover competition than he did, and there were responses like, "F*** Russell Wilson", and "I hate Russell Wilson as much as the next guy, but...", which gave me the impression that there are Panther fans resentful of RW, and it reminded me of the group of misguided Seahawks fans that hate on Luck for no good reason.

    And I've also seen hatred of Wilson expressed at Washington message boards, out of resentment that he's surpassed RG3 at this point in their careers.

    I don't think irrational resentment/hate for other QBs is only found among Seahawks fans.



    While I don't know, it's possible that many are Tar Heel fans and RW went to NCSU. The rivalry and level of hate is quite underrated nationally. Either that or they're children with no good sense or upbringing. Anyone that says they hate Russell Wilson is a loser in the game of life and an imbecile of a human being.
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Re: Will Luck get more than Wilson
Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:01 pm
  • Anthony! wrote:Now as to your saying that NO team with a QB on a MAX deal ever won an SB, that would be wrong, Montana, Elway, to name a few.


    Montana was before the salary cap and Elway won his Super Bowls while the Broncos front office cheated the salary cap.
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Re: Will Luck get more than Wilson
Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:19 pm
  • BASF wrote:
    Anthony! wrote:Now as to your saying that NO team with a QB on a MAX deal ever won an SB, that would be wrong, Montana, Elway, to name a few.


    Montana was before the salary cap and Elway won his Super Bowls while the Broncos front office cheated the salary cap.



    you never said anything about having to be after the cap or not, or not and as to the excuse of cheating the cap, well since they did not get penalized for it, I will go with they did not and is still proves my point. OH and I forgot Brady several times. Oh and of course the fact still remains the teams that are nearly always in the mix for the playoffs and SB have franchise QBs, who either rare or have been getting paid, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Manning, Ben R, etc. Again my point has been made.
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Re: Will Luck get more than Wilson
Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:30 pm
  • Anthony! wrote:you never said anything about having to be after the cap or not,


    I never said anything of the sort, since I am not the poster who brought it up, just interjecting some facts. Kind of like this:

    Anthony! wrote:as to the excuse of cheating the cap, well since they did not get penalized for it, I will go with they did not and is still proves my point.



    ESPN Page wrote:Broncos circumvented cap from 1996-98
    Updated: September 16, 2004, 7:17 PM ET
    Associated Press

    NEW YORK -- The Denver Broncos have been fined $950,000 and will lose their third-round pick in next year's NFL draft for circumventing the salary cap between 1996-98.

    The penalties were levied Thursday following an agreement involving the league, its union and the team.


    Checking facts before posting is pretty easy.
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Re: Will Luck get more than Wilson
Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:30 pm
  • Anthony! wrote:
    BASF wrote:
    Anthony! wrote:Now as to your saying that NO team with a QB on a MAX deal ever won an SB, that would be wrong, Montana, Elway, to name a few.


    Montana was before the salary cap and Elway won his Super Bowls while the Broncos front office cheated the salary cap.



    you never said anything about having to be after the cap or not, or not and as to the excuse of cheating the cap, well since they did not get penalized for it, I will go with they did not and is still proves my point. OH and I forgot Brady several times. Oh and of course the fact still remains the teams that are nearly always in the mix for the playoffs and SB have franchise QBs, who either rare or have been getting paid, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Manning, Ben R, etc. Again my point has been made.



    getting pretty obvious youre more stubborn then smart.

    -Brady was not even close to the highest paid during is superbowl run. So there goes that stupid argument.
    -You didnt know that the topic was for salary cap era only? Why would any of us care if there was no cap? Dont be naive.
    -The Broncos were penalized for salary cap violations between 96-98.

    If you arent gonna take the 15 seconds to google anything, then stop with the pathetic contrarian bit.
    hawksincebirth wrote:
    So Russell has leverage but marshawn doesn't ? I thought its next man up. Hey we got t jack and bj Daniels right ??
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