How about this ? Bennett vs. Tuck

So, I've seen all these topics about Bennett vs. "common household elite edge rusher". The closest player to Bennett in the FA market is Justin Tuck.

Tuck had 41 Tackles, 11 sacks, 2 FF's, and 1 INT last year. He's also 29, so one year older than Bennett.

Say they command the same price roughly, and both want to be here. Who do you pick ?

Bennett, he's proven he can thrive in this system. Tuck hasn't.

Bennett.

Not to knock Tuck's talent, but if it's the same price, I don't see the point in causing turmoil within the ranks. Bennett knows how we work and has proven he works well within the system. Not to mention, if Red is let go, Bennett is no stranger to filling in for Red. I'm sure the goal is to have Williams or Hill fill Red's, shoes, but if for some reason that doesn't pan out, you can't argue with having a safety valve like Bennett

Bennett, Proven Player, and in this scenario? Experience Matters.
Now IF Tuck was to take a big drop in pay?, he might be worth some consideration.

Bennett, he seems to have found his stride but I dont want either of them at anywhere near 10 million.. Id give Bennett 3 years 20 million with a signing bonus. If Tuck took a dime less, Id take him.

Bennett by a good margin.
However if Bennett is a 5 year deal at 8 million per versus a 2 year deal at 5.5 m per for Tuck, I could be swayed.

lsheldon":1915omw7 said:

Bennett, he's proven he can thrive in this system. Tuck hasn't.

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Tuck has been playing the same role as Bennett since Bennett was on our PS.

As for Tuck taking less, I actually think Tuck will command more. He has better stats, is equally disruptive, and is about the same age.

I could see the Giants not wanting to pay his price, and he could replace Bennett if Bennett wants too much. Two guys wanting the same spot could get fun to see, and keep in mind, Tuck probably pays the highest state income tax outside of California. If NYC has a city tax (like Philly), he's probably paying more.

Bennett because of his versatility and experience in this system, by a lot.

Can Tuck play inside and outside? Can Tuck play in this system?

Tuck might take a little less to come play with his cousin, Bobby Wagner.

I believe I read that Justin tuck is cousins with bobby Wagner. Maybe he can talk him into coming on a cheaper deal

I don't think Tuck fits in our scheme.

-The Glove-":2r3zaf5s said:

Can Tuck play inside and outside? Can Tuck play in this system?

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Tuck made his hay playing inside and outside in a Superbowl against a certain undefeated team led by Tom Brady. The Giants defense wasn't all that good on the backend that year, but hte DL was elite.

Kind of like how all of the sudden everyone wants to emulate our defense, when the huge underdog Giants beat the juggernaut Patriots, teams started putting a larger value on DL and getting to the QB from all positions on the line. A big part of this was Tuck being able to move inside and having Umenyiora coming from the outside. When the Giants drafted JPP, Tuck moved inside a lot more.

I was unaware that Wagner and Tuck were cousins. That's very interesting and pretty cool. I basically posted this topic because Tuck and Bennett are almost mirror images of eachother, except that Bennett has Tuck by about 6 lbs or so (Tuck is listed at 268, Bennett 274). I wonder if family ties would entice him to come out, or if he's happy as a Giant.

Hawks46":3mjidk7x said:

-The Glove-":3mjidk7x said:

Can Tuck play inside and outside? Can Tuck play in this system?

Click to expand...

Tuck made his hay playing inside and outside in a Superbowl against a certain undefeated team led by Tom Brady. The Giants defense wasn't all that good on the backend that year, but hte DL was elite.

Kind of like how all of the sudden everyone wants to emulate our defense, when the huge underdog Giants beat the juggernaut Patriots, teams started putting a larger value on DL and getting to the QB from all positions on the line. A big part of this was Tuck being able to move inside and having Umenyiora coming from the outside. When the Giants drafted JPP, Tuck moved inside a lot more.

I was unaware that Wagner and Tuck were cousins. That's very interesting and pretty cool. I basically posted this topic because Tuck and Bennett are almost mirror images of eachother, except that Bennett has Tuck by about 6 lbs or so (Tuck is listed at 268, Bennett 274). I wonder if family ties would entice him to come out, or if he's happy as a Giant.

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First and foremost, I wasn't going to point out the hypocrisy in this thread from your view in the Bennett/Hardy thread but alas I cannot help myself.

2ndly, I love how you're all over Tuck, who is 6'5, 268. Yet, you act like 6-6, 270 pound Jared Allen and 6'4, 290 Greg Hardy would be totally worthless against the run.

With that said, Tuck would be a good option for the 2nd LE0 role formerly played by Brock, Irvin, and Avril but because Tuck has already has 2 rings, he's likely to follow the money. However, if we miss out on Bennett.

I hope we can just use that money to extend Avril beyond this season.

Restructure with a pay cut and keep Clemons.

Restructure with a pay cut and keep Bryant.

Re-Sign McDaniel and McDonald.

And then just draft another pass-rush DT, and just give lots of attention in developing Scruggs, Brooks, and Hill. And make a competition out of it. We might not be as good as we would have been with Bennett, but with Quinn in his 2nd year and a lot of our younger guys another year older thus another year wiser the D could just get better within itself whether or not if we have Bennett.

Greetings from New York. Mostly a lurker but as a Giants fan as well as a Hawks fan feel the need to chime in. For the 3/4 of the season that mattered, and much of the year prior, Justin Tuck was looking a lot closer to finished than someone I'd hand a large wad of money to. He had exactly 2.5 sacks through 11 games, when the season actually mattered, and was invisible for the most part. Played better and padded his stats the final 4 meaningless weeks to the tune of 8.5 additional sacks, but it didn't fool most fans and it certainly didn't fool the Giants hierarchy. Shell of the player he once was.

There's a reason the Giants are letting him walk. For what it might cost I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.

canucklhead":pttyiokz said:

Greetings from New York. Mostly a lurker but as a Giants fan as well as a Hawks fan feel the need to chime in. For the 3/4 of the season that mattered, and much of the year prior, Justin Tuck was looking a lot closer to finished than someone I'd hand a large wad of money to. He had exactly 2.5 sacks through 11 games, when the season actually mattered, and was invisible for the most part. Played better and padded his stats the final 4 meaningless weeks to the tune of 8.5 additional sacks, but it didn't fool most fans and it certainly didn't fool the Giants hierarchy. Shell of the player he once was.

There's a reason the Giants are letting him walk. For what it might cost I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.

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Yeah that game where Russ stiff armed him into oblivion should have been an indicator. Seemed to have lost the passion to play and appeared to be 'mailing it in.

Hawkalypse":2szf81eu said:

canucklhead":2szf81eu said:

Greetings from New York. Mostly a lurker but as a Giants fan as well as a Hawks fan feel the need to chime in. For the 3/4 of the season that mattered, and much of the year prior, Justin Tuck was looking a lot closer to finished than someone I'd hand a large wad of money to. He had exactly 2.5 sacks through 11 games, when the season actually mattered, and was invisible for the most part. Played better and padded his stats the final 4 meaningless weeks to the tune of 8.5 additional sacks, but it didn't fool most fans and it certainly didn't fool the Giants hierarchy. Shell of the player he once was.

There's a reason the Giants are letting him walk. For what it might cost I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.

Click to expand...

Yeah that game where Russ stiff armed him into oblivion should have been an indicator. Seemed to have lost the passion to play and appeared to be 'mailing it in.

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Not a question of effort....mostly a matter of age, injury, and being in the twilight of a great career.

I'd swap Bennett for Tuck. I'd like to see it proven that with our defense it's possible to cycle good players in and out of the system. I think it probably is. If we have that working and individual tries to hold us hostage for a big contract, it's simply goodbye - and next man up please.

canucklhead":3u4vnpev said:

Greetings from New York. Mostly a lurker but as a Giants fan as well as a Hawks fan feel the need to chime in. For the 3/4 of the season that mattered, and much of the year prior, Justin Tuck was looking a lot closer to finished than someone I'd hand a large wad of money to. He had exactly 2.5 sacks through 11 games, when the season actually mattered, and was invisible for the most part. Played better and padded his stats the final 4 meaningless weeks to the tune of 8.5 additional sacks, but it didn't fool most fans and it certainly didn't fool the Giants hierarchy. Shell of the player he once was.

There's a reason the Giants are letting him walk. For what it might cost I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.

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Great insight. I don't watch a lot of Giants football outside of the playoffs. I want to say last year Tuck was injured, and looking at some of his games it looks like he might've still been affected by injury and then healed up/shook it off.

You make a great point though, one I also unknowingly made with my comment "Tuck as been playing this role since Bennett was on our PS" but Tuck has a lot more miles on the tires. For the age, Bennett doesn't have a lot of wear on him. Looks like Tuck would really only be a 1 year replacement if we can't afford Bennett. Keep in mind, we'd be rotating him and not having him play all the snaps.

Pandion Haliaetus":377dxa2l said:

Hawks46":377dxa2l said:

-The Glove-":377dxa2l said:

Can Tuck play inside and outside? Can Tuck play in this system?

Click to expand...

Tuck made his hay playing inside and outside in a Superbowl against a certain undefeated team led by Tom Brady. The Giants defense wasn't all that good on the backend that year, but hte DL was elite.

Kind of like how all of the sudden everyone wants to emulate our defense, when the huge underdog Giants beat the juggernaut Patriots, teams started putting a larger value on DL and getting to the QB from all positions on the line. A big part of this was Tuck being able to move inside and having Umenyiora coming from the outside. When the Giants drafted JPP, Tuck moved inside a lot more.

I was unaware that Wagner and Tuck were cousins. That's very interesting and pretty cool. I basically posted this topic because Tuck and Bennett are almost mirror images of eachother, except that Bennett has Tuck by about 6 lbs or so (Tuck is listed at 268, Bennett 274). I wonder if family ties would entice him to come out, or if he's happy as a Giant.

Click to expand...

First and foremost, I wasn't going to point out the hypocrisy in this thread from your view in the Bennett/Hardy thread but alas I cannot help myself.

2ndly, I love how you're all over Tuck, who is 6'5, 268. Yet, you act like 6-6, 270 pound Jared Allen and 6'4, 290 Greg Hardy would be totally worthless against the run.

With that said, Tuck would be a good option for the 2nd LE0 role formerly played by Brock, Irvin, and Avril but because Tuck has already has 2 rings, he's likely to follow the money. However, if we miss out on Bennett.

I hope we can just use that money to extend Avril beyond this season.

Restructure with a pay cut and keep Clemons.

Restructure with a pay cut and keep Bryant.

Re-Sign McDaniel and McDonald.

And then just draft another pass-rush DT, and just give lots of attention in developing Scruggs, Brooks, and Hill. And make a competition out of it. We might not be as good as we would have been with Bennett, but with Quinn in his 2nd year and a lot of our younger guys another year older thus another year wiser the D could just get better within itself whether or not if we have Bennett.

Click to expand...

Well I'll address this in points:

"First and foremost" I hardly see how there's hypocrisy in posting how Allen and Hardy don't fit Bennett's spot, and the comparison is apples and oranges. You see, those guys play ON THE OUTSIDE. They don't play INSIDE, like Bennett did for half his snaps.. Why ? Because for most of Allen's career, and with Hardy as well, both teams have elite DT's. I'm not "acting" like they're crap against the run. Both DE's are among the tops in the league against the run, from the OUTSIDE, or Defensive END position. I'm not even saying they can't slide inside, but they've NEVER had to do it, so no way would we pay as much, if not more for either player when they aren't plug and play with what we have. If I have to explain that playing the run as a DE and playing the run as a 3 tech DT are vastly different, we shouldn't be having this conversation, so please watch who you're calling a hypocrite.

2nd, I'm not "all over" Tuck. I think he's a good player. The comparison with Tuck and Bennet is important as they're both FA's and they both play an identical role. They're also the same age and had almost identical stats last year. Allen and Hardy are elite DE's that don't move INSIDE. EVER. I love me some Jared Allen and he'd fit on this team like a glove, but he'd be taking Clemons' spot, not Bennett's, which I also stated in that thread. We have Avril to rush on the outside while Bennett went inside. Once again, we don't need another outside guy there.....he's slide over to Clemons' side. You can't just take any DE and put them inside; it works a lot less often than one thinks it would.

I'd also agree with the 2 rings comment. He's not coming here for a ring. He might come here to play for Pete, which seems to be the rage now on defense. He might come here to play with his cousin Wagner, although I didn't know that when I posted. He might come here to play on a historically elite defense. Another ring probably isn't as high on the list.

Restructure Clemons: I wouldn't have a problem with that.

Restructure Bryant: No. Just cut him. As fans, we think it's more cold blooded to cut a player rather than restructure him. In Bryant's case, we'd be doing him a favor. Another team will pay him at least as much as we're paying him now and he might get more in FA. Bryant can play DE in a 3-4 and that has a lot of value. Cutting him would make him more money. If we keep Bennett, it's my opinion that we need to see what we have in Hill, Williams, Scruggs, and the other young DT we have on the team. Bennett stole snaps from Bryant and played both roles better than Red (or equally in the case of run play).

Resign McDaniel and McDonald. Totally agree. I'm really high on McDonald after this year, and I honestly think he can get better.

Draft a young DT. I'm down for this, or for developing the young guys we just signed to futures contracts that have already shown flashes. We're in a good position (again) this year in that we don't have too many glaring holes outside of the interior OL, so we can go BPA at any position. If we get good enough talent, Hill, Williams or Scruggs probably loses a job. Scruggs intrigues me as he has shown flashes of Bennett...going inside/outside.